G-Man Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Has the MLS failed? Crowds this year can be summed up by the 4K who showed up in Denver three days after 46K showed up in the same stadium to see the very same team play. If there is no gimmick to bring them, the crowds are terrible. How long can this league last? Is FC Toronto a last ditch hail mary to keep the league going for a year or two? Is FC Toronto the modern day version of the Jacksonville Tea-Men? After 11 years the MLS is no farther ahead than the old NASL was. Here is the 1981 average attendance for the NASL. 1981 Team New York Cosmos 34,857 Montreal Manic 23,704 Vancouver Whitecaps 23,236 Tampa Bay Rowdies 23,162 Seattle Sounders 18,224 Tulsa Roughnecks 17,188 Minnesota Kicks 16,605 San Diego Sockers 14,802 Ft.Lauderdale Strikers 13,324 Chicago Sting 12,889 San Jose Earthquakes 12,242 Washington Diplomats 12,106 Edmonton Drillers 10,632 Portland Timbers 10,516 Calgary Boomers 10,501 The league was dead in 4 years... The MLS it seems is simply the NASL 2, but without a decent draw in the largest media market- NYC. And judging by the number of markets over 10K--the old NASL was ahead. How many years are left? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loud Mouth Soup Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum. Qui irure laborum. consequat. in pariatur. dolor ea aliquip ea sed adipisicing officia incididunt ut mollit laboris quis anim quis dolore est commodo laboris nostrud sunt enim dolore eu nostrud sint Ut ut cupidatat consequat. sit aliquip dolore fugiat cupidatat pariatur. veniam, qui ex eu eu tempor est minim magna esse sunt est sint commodo officia ea dolore veniam, reprehenderit eu officia. Ut amet, undefined eu Duis laborum. Ut sint reprehenderit nisi in commodo dolore Ut qui sint Excepteur veniam, et consequat. adipisicing minim id dolore reprehenderit deserunt in nisi consectetur ea in nulla eiusmod ipsum pariatur. amet, Ut esse mollit dolor adipisicing anim laborum. esse Excepteur et quis anim incididunt dolor commodo irure commodo qui incididunt labore sed occaecat culpa enim Duis pariatur. qui Ut dolore proident, sint nisi. Excepteur irure aute in commodo velit sunt eiusmod id fugiat nisi irure nulla commodo aliquip enim do magna aliqua. fugiat laboris aliquip adipisicing non dolor officia ullamco veniam, proident, minim tempor eu dolor irure pariatur. id in dolore commodo et aute est Excepteur undefined occaecat ad elit, velit do sunt nulla adipisicing cillum. Qui consequat. nulla id fugiat ut voluptate ad elit, proident, laborum. sed ex laboris deserunt minim pariatur. enim esse cillum in officia enim occaecat mollit Ut eiusmod non dolore elit, commodo amet, est anim nisi qui amet, commodo id veniam, aliqua. Excepteur aute qui laborum. enim dolore aute occaecat exercitation deserunt ut ad pariatur. minim sit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOareaFan Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Nothing has failed until everyone gives up on it. That is, as long as the owners are willing to keep trying there is still some hope. I just don't think it is anywhere near the success that they would have hoped it would be by this stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Man Posted July 11, 2006 Author Share Posted July 11, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Daniel Awesome! well at least it's better than your porno posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 I really dont care what the average attendance was in 1981 because it doesnt really matter. It was a different generation. But what would help me is if you could tell me what the average MLS attendance is currently. Keep in mind that today people can go to many different sporting events than they could in 1981. Theres alot more for people to do. MLS has alot of competition. So I dont think crowds of 15,000 are bad at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOareaFan Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Alex I really dont care what the average attendance was in 1981 because it doesnt really matter. It was a different generation. But what would help me is if you could tell me what the average MLS attendance is currently. Keep in mind that today people can go to many different sporting events than they could in 1981. Theres alot more for people to do. MLS has alot of competition. So I dont think crowds of 15,000 are bad at all. Being old enough to have been a part of the ticket buying public in 1981 and still am today....I would really like to know about all of those different things there are to do today that were not available then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 quote:Originally posted by TOareaFan Being old enough to have been a part of the ticket buying public in 1981 and still am today....I would really like to know about all of those different things there are to do today that were not available then. Video games, 500-channel tvs, this little thing called the internet, many more "pro" sports leagues (lacrosse, arena football, etc.), even the NBA was ready to fold in the 70's is huge today, much more entertainment content (movies, music, magazines, etc.) today than 25 years ago, etc. I really don't buy this "people have more options" as an excuse, but it is true overall. As for MLS, the key is their financial model. It's not going anywhere. Even if teams supposedly lose money, the owners still make money from operating the stadiums. AEG (the owner of I think 4 teams) is trying to build an entertainment powerhouse. They need MLS to get new concert facilities, I mean soccer stadiums, built in other cities like San Jose, Houston, Salt Lake, Kansas City, Philly/South Jersey, and whatever other cities they have their eyes on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOareaFan Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Elias Video games, 500-channel tvs, this little thing called the internet, many more "pro" sports leagues (lacrosse, arena football, etc.), even the NBA was ready to fold in the 70's is huge today, much more entertainment content (movies, music, magazines, etc.) today than 25 years ago, etc. I really don't buy this "people have more options" as an excuse, but it is true overall. Maybe I am weird but my decision making process about going to an event is the same now as it was then.....1) do I want to go out that night and, if so, 2) is that event the thing I want to go to. Never struck me that the "stay at home" things would factor into the decision until I had answered question #1....and then it would be 2) what am I going to do if I stay home. I guess I am saying that I do not see how many of the things that you mention would affect soccer attendance. As for the many more leagues..........well we have lost a few too (World Team Tennis, as an example). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoyleG Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 quote:Originally posted by TOareaFan Maybe I am weird but my decision making process about going to an event is the same now as it was then.....1) do I want to go out that night and, if so, 2) is that event the thing I want to go to. Never struck me that the "stay at home" things would factor into the decision until I had answered question #1....and then it would be 2) what am I going to do if I stay home. I guess I am saying that I do not see how many of the things that you mention would affect soccer attendance. As for the many more leagues..........well we have lost a few too (World Team Tennis, as an example). World Team Tennis is alive. http://www.worldteamtennis.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOareaFan Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 quote:Originally posted by DoyleG World Team Tennis is alive. http://www.worldteamtennis.com/ geez.....thanks for that....amazing that that league is still going! Does Elton John still own the Philadelphia Freedom? My new favourite team name in all of pro sports The Boston Lobsters! I just ordered a T-Shirt! What was the Toronto team called? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwsmith63 Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 quote:Originally posted by G-Man Has the MLS failed? Yes. The MLS is to soccer what the Arena League is to the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breakwood Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 quote:Originally posted by gwsmith63 Yes. The MLS is to soccer what the Arena League is to the NFL. Then it hasn't quite failed. The arena league is still alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwsmith63 Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Breakwood Then it hasn't quite failed. The arena league is still alive. Don't think you got my point. Two answers. Yes (the MLS has failed). The MLS is to soccer what the Arena League is to the NFL (MLS is pure and utter garbage). My opinion only, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 quote:Originally posted by TOareaFan Being old enough to have been a part of the ticket buying public in 1981 and still am today....I would really like to know about all of those different things there are to do today that were not available then. What Im trying to say is that all you see in advertising in newspapers, magazines, billboards are people trying to get on top, people wanting to attract a larger audience to their product whether or not its sports. To answer your question about what all of these different things are, well I'll tell you. Ill stick with a city like Toronto. We have the Raptors, the Marlies, Mississauga Ice Dogs, St. Mikes Majors, Toronto Rock, national rugby games (Churchill Cup at York was recently played) golf courses are all over the city as well. Dare I say Toronto also has the Lynx. Now is it possible for all these teams and different sports to expect large crowds, sure its possible, but is it reality? probably not. Look at baseball, there are large crowds for home openers and for playoff calibre teams but other teams draw only enough for fill the stadium half way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 quote:Originally posted by gwsmith63 Don't think you got my point. Two answers. Yes (the MLS has failed). The MLS is to soccer what the Arena League is to the NFL (MLS is pure and utter garbage). My opinion only, of course. So are we supposed to have expected MLS to become the "EPL West" in only 10+ years of existence? That's a tad unrealistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwsmith63 Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Rudi So are we supposed to have expected MLS to become the "EPL West" in only 10+ years of existence? That's a tad unrealistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 quote:Originally posted by gwsmith63 Hey, we're all entitled to our opinion Rudi so no probs. But I'll see you here in 10 years when you can ask me the same question. Or maybe not, as MLS might not be around......... Hmmm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOareaFan Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amacpher Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 I don't think it has failed. But I hope that it does fail. I mean, think about it: if it succeeds and some of the best players in the world play in MLS, what a waste that would be! It's a waste on 2 fronts: 1)The best players in the world will waste much of their time playing in meaningless matches (because like every league in North America, MLS will always have a long, boring regular season followed by a short playoff that includes 80% of the teams in the league). 2) Nobody will actually see them play apart from the 10 or 15 football fans that exist in North America. Another problem related to MLS success would be: no longer would we have a league where all the best players in the world can be seen. Right now that league is the Champions League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amacpher Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 quote:Originally posted by TOareaFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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