sstackho Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 Interesting discussion about Aussie soccer and sport in general, with some comparisons to Canadian soccer. Wizards of Aus do it again: RIVALRIES I There's 12 million less of them Down Under, but they keep upstaging us Gary Kingston Vancouver Sun 1659 words 10 June 2006 Vancouver Sun Final E1 / Front English Copyright © 2006 Vancouver Sun It was nearly 13 years ago that Canada and Australia split a pair of World Cup qualifying soccer matches -- the last time the men's sides would meet in a full international -- and then needed penalty kicks in Sydney to decide that it was the Socceroos who would move on. The boys from Down Under failed to make it through to the U.S. for 1994, however, as they were bounced in a second-leg playoff by Argentina. But as the eyes of the world train on Germany for World Cup 2006, it is the 'Roos who have caught the fancy of their nation by claiming a coveted spot on the pitch for the first time in 32 years. This country, meantime, is reduced to a 'where-are-they-now' moaning about our boys of '86. There are smaller countries in Germany this month -- Trinidad and Tobago (pop. 1.1 million) and Costa Rica (pop. 4.01 million), for example -- but perhaps no country's presence at the Greatest Show on Turf should rankle us as much as that of the green-and-gold clad Aussies. A country with which we have much in common historically and geographically, but with a population 12 million less than ours regularly swamps us in the swimming pool and bests us on the field hockey pitch, the softball diamond and many other playing fields. It blows us away at the Commonwealth Games and trumps us in the Summer Olympics, where it has become the fourth-leading nation in the world. And now its men's soccer program -- second-tier at home, much like Canada's -- has seemingly turned a corner quicker than we have. (Yes, we've been seventh, fourth and fifth at the last four Winter Olympics, but the far smaller Games are almost exclusively the preserve of the north. Which southern hemisphere country is the only one to have won medals at the last four Winter Games, albeit just six? That's right, Australia.) "[sport] truly is a fabric of their culture to a point of being almost excessive," says Peter Judge, CEO of Freestyle Canada and a man who spent four years coaching in Australia from 1998 to 2002. "It permeates every part of their culture." New Swim Canada boss Pierre Lafontaine also spent a few years coaching in Australia before returning to Canada last year. "The huge, huge difference [i see] now after being back here for a year is that in Australia they made it raison d'etre that it is un-Australian not to dominate sport. They're not scared to talk about the need to be very good." We share similar colonial pasts, political structures and traditions with Australia. Both countries are large, relatively isolated and sparsely populated. Both bow to a British-based Queen. Both have a history of internal conflicts with their indigenous populations. And each easily can be defined by a distinctive cultural icon -- Paul (Crocodile Dundee) Hogan in Australia; Don (Rock 'em, Sock 'em) Cherry in Canada -- who is occasionally the source of home country derision. So what makes the Aussies better on so many playing fields? Scholars like to point to Australian character and trace its traits of nationalism, social cohesion and tenacity to early 19th century rivalries between white, native-born Australians and new settlers. But it's the modern era that's defined Australian sport and, in particular, the response to the country's embarrassing showing at the 1976 Olympics in Montreal when the Aussies won just five medals (no gold) and finished 32nd. Four years later, the Australian Institute of Sport (AIS) was established and the Aussies' sport system, with its ground-breaking investments in science, management, coaching, talent identification and development, began paying dividends. It has become a blueprint for success, copied by many countries around the world, including Canada. "The funny thing is that the Australians actually came to Canada in the '70s to find out what we were doing," says Lafontaine. "Prior to '76 they had a guy spend a year at the Canadian sports library to learn and redesign the Australian sports library. We cut it out and the Australians probably have the best sports and audio visual library in the world. Now, we're going back and looking at them." Lafontaine says Canada can learn a lot from the AIS model of one-line servicing of athletes. "In Australia, they have a head physiologist for Australian sport. It's a co-ordinated effort of the sport servicing business . . . and not having eight centres fighting to see who could get what and this and that. I think the COC is moving in that direction and streamlining servicing." In the last year, there has also been a huge financial commitment in Canada to improving sport science research, coaching and athlete development through the much-ballyhooed 2010 Own the Podium program and now a summer sport equivalent, Road to Excellence, that was unveiled this week. And, just as importantly, says Lafontaine, this country seems prepared to adopt the Australian commitment to winning. "I have to say, coming from the outside and back in this year . . . in the '80s winning was a bad word. I don't think it's a bad word anymore." Judge says Canadian sport officials have been studying the Australian model for close to a decade. "There's some very visionary people there . . . and maybe they have a much better way of doing things," he says. "You know we have a great affinity with Australia and there's lots of cross-over back and forth. We've had the opportunity to see inside their system, get that 360-degree view and understand how it could fit into our programs. At our core, we're very, very similar. We're not ostentatious like the Americans. We're quiet achievers, but somewhat outgoing . . . and because of that great affinity we understand each other's thinking." The Australians, however, may be closing ranks. The return of Lafontaine and Judge to Canada has underscored how much the Aussies have become a target. AIS director Peter Fricker announced two weeks ago that the institute will spend almost $5 million over the next four years to prop up salaries to fend off countries intent on cherry-picking Australia's best coaches in an aggressive bid to improve their performance. Britain, which will host the 2012 Games in London, has been a chief culprit, but Fricker also noted Canada, China and New Zealand have been active. He is also wary of oil-rich gulf states like Qatar, Bahrain and the United Arab Emirates, which are "recruiting like mad." "We have put aside an amount to target the 10 best coaches in our AIS programs and pay them enough to make it attractive enough for them to stay," he told the Weekend Australian. Fricker also feels the AIS has hurt itself by allowing rivals to access its expertise in the past. He has instituted a new policy by which it will only help countries that offer equal assistance in return. "We want to make sure it's not one-way traffic going offshore," he said. "We only want partnerships that are win-win." Now in the process of searching for a new head coach after Frank Yallop's resignation this week, the Canadian men's soccer program might like to get a good inside view of the Australian system and some of the bold moves it has made. Buried behind rugby and Australian Rules Football, the Aussie soccer system faced the same sort of problems as Canada's -- an inability to sustain a domestic league, top players often tied up overseas with European club teams, and promising native Australians being lured away by other nations through ancestral ties to that particular nation. Following the collapse of the previous governing body, Soccer Australia, the Australian government established an independent inquiry that recommended reconstitution of the body as the Australian Soccer Association in 2003 under the direction of billionaire businessman Frank Lowy. Now called Football Federation Australia, it pulled off a coup by hiring legendary Dutch coach Guus Hiddink in 2005. It was Hiddink who masterminded the World Cup qualification. Amazingly, the Aussies attracted a crowd of 83,000 at Telestra Stadium in Sydney for the clinching qualifying game against Uruguay. Two weeks ago, the 98,000 capacity Melbourne Cricket Ground was sold out in two hours for a friendly against Greece. FFA also launched a new national league in 2005, the Hyundai A-League, and moved the Socceroos in early 2006 into the Asian Football Conference from the Oceania Football Conference, prompting FAA executive John O'Neill to predict the day when a Socceroos-China clash would rank up there with an England-Australia cricket test. In May, the FAA signed a seven-year, $120-million deal with Fox Sports to televise the A-League, AFC Champions League, the Asian Cup and all Australian home internationals. Some of that money will be used, officials say, to "repatriate" several Socceroos back to A-League after the World Cup. And there, unfortunately, is the dilemma and the enormous challenge facing Canada. Could the CSA ever hire somebody like Hiddink? Could a billionaire businessman be convinced to take over the CSA? Would Toyota sponsor a Canadian A-League? Would Sportsnet pay $100-million plus to televise soccer here? The answers, we suspect, are No, No, No and No. In Australia, where as Peter Judge says sport "permeates every part of their culture," they simply don't take No for an answer. gkingston@png.canwest.com Colour Photo: Torsten Blackwood, AFP/Getty Images / Aussies are so into soccer even the kangaroos wear boots, at least on this road sign near the team base camp in Ohringen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC supporter Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 I read this article in yesterday's Sun. It makes some points, although I was struck by how glibly the writer congratulates Football Federation Australia for having "moved the Socceroos in early 2006 into the Asian Football Conference from the Oceania Football Conference." A mention about just how tiny Oceania is, how Australia was basically guaranteed a regular shot at a two-game playoff for the World Cup (which prior to this year saw them repeatedly fall short), and how now, having moved into Asia, they're in position to qualify for most all future World Cups, would have added important context. If only the CSA could so easily "move" Canada from CONCACAF. Good luck to the Aussies in this year's World Cup. I'll be pulling for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sKriSh Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 quote:Originally posted by sstackho And there, unfortunately, is the dilemma and the enormous challenge facing Canada. Could the CSA ever hire somebody like Hiddink? Could a billionaire businessman be convinced to take over the CSA? Would Toyota sponsor a Canadian A-League? Would Sportsnet pay $100-million plus to televise soccer here? The answers, we suspect, are No, No, No and No. In Australia, where as Peter Judge says sport "permeates every part of their culture," they simply don't take No for an answer. This sums up the problem with the CSA nicley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 I'm sure that Saputo and Kerfoot would have a go at it if, like Soccer Australia, the CSA was dismantled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natesta Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 quote:Originally posted by BC supporter If only the CSA could so easily "move" Canada from CONCACAF. Good luck to the Aussies in this year's World Cup. I'll be pulling for them. CONCACAF is probobly one of the easiest federations to qualify from, I do not understand the issue that you're taking with this artcle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoyleG Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 In Australia, they have an investigative program called "Four Corners". Just prior to the 2002 World Cup, they did an investigation into the state of affairs in Australian soccer. Quite a damming piece of the events at that time. http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/archives/2002a_Monday27May2002.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 quote:Originally posted by DoyleG In Australia, they have an investigative program called "Four Corners". Just prior to the 2002 World Cup, they did an investigation into the state of affairs in Australian soccer. Quite a damming piece of the events at that time. http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/archives/2002a_Monday27May2002.htm And we get Lenarduzzi telling us that he actually *didn't* hit the post, every four years... [V] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashton Gate Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 Lest anyone could not imagine what it would feel like for a "non-soccer country" like Australia to score three goals in ten minutes in a World Cup game, check out the 100+ letters to the Sydney Morning Herald. Link at: http://blogs.smh.com.au/worldcup/archives/2006/06/world_meet_aust.html#114960. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massive Attack Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 I kinda lost all respect for Australia after I found out what a racist and intolerant place it is. All the sporting glory in the world can't hide that fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Man Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack I kinda lost all respect for Australia after I found out what a racist and intolerant place it is. All the sporting glory in the world can't hide that fact. Get a fricking life. And we're not a racist place??? Talk to arab person right now or a long suffering Native. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Man Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack I kinda lost all respect for Australia after I found out what a racist and intolerant place it is. All the sporting glory in the world can't hide that fact. Get a fricking life. And we're not a racist place??? Talk to arab person right now or a long suffering Native. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 Frank Lowy has just single handedly turned Australian Football from rabble into gold in three years. He is Australia's richest man, who has a love of the game. If Canada can find someone like him in their own country then that'd be everything. Aussie's don't want to lose at sport bla bla bla all true, but I dont buy the argument that you can't market sport in Canada. What was that point I didn't get it. You have other sports that are marketed very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 Frank Lowy has just single handedly turned Australian Football from rabble into gold in three years. He is Australia's richest man, who has a love of the game. If Canada can find someone like him in their own country then that'd be everything. Aussie's don't want to lose at sport bla bla bla all true, but I dont buy the argument that you can't market sport in Canada. What was that point I didn't get it. You have other sports that are marketed very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 quote:Originally posted by BC supporter I read this article in yesterday's Sun. It makes some points, although I was struck by how glibly the writer congratulates Football Federation Australia for having "moved the Socceroos in early 2006 into the Asian Football Conference from the Oceania Football Conference." A mention about just how tiny Oceania is, how Australia was basically guaranteed a regular shot at a two-game playoff for the World Cup (which prior to this year saw them repeatedly fall short), and how now, having moved into Asia, they're in position to qualify for most all future World Cups, would have added important context. If only the CSA could so easily "move" Canada from CONCACAF. Good luck to the Aussies in this year's World Cup. I'll be pulling for them. No, the move was not to make it easier to qualify. It was to give Australia more games and more opportunities. Our Senior, Youth and Women's teams would play a handful of games every four years against Oceania Nations. This did nothing for Australian football development. It's regular competitive games that was the reason for the move rather than neccessarily easier World Cup path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 quote:Originally posted by BC supporter I read this article in yesterday's Sun. It makes some points, although I was struck by how glibly the writer congratulates Football Federation Australia for having "moved the Socceroos in early 2006 into the Asian Football Conference from the Oceania Football Conference." A mention about just how tiny Oceania is, how Australia was basically guaranteed a regular shot at a two-game playoff for the World Cup (which prior to this year saw them repeatedly fall short), and how now, having moved into Asia, they're in position to qualify for most all future World Cups, would have added important context. If only the CSA could so easily "move" Canada from CONCACAF. Good luck to the Aussies in this year's World Cup. I'll be pulling for them. No, the move was not to make it easier to qualify. It was to give Australia more games and more opportunities. Our Senior, Youth and Women's teams would play a handful of games every four years against Oceania Nations. This did nothing for Australian football development. It's regular competitive games that was the reason for the move rather than neccessarily easier World Cup path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack I kinda lost all respect for Australia after I found out what a racist and intolerant place it is. All the sporting glory in the world can't hide that fact. Are you talking about those people in Sydney?? They are a pocket of society in their city. Really, it's more complicated than that, the area has had many racial tensions for years. But it has nothing to do with the rest of the country. It's sad to see you generalise like that:( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack I kinda lost all respect for Australia after I found out what a racist and intolerant place it is. All the sporting glory in the world can't hide that fact. Are you talking about those people in Sydney?? They are a pocket of society in their city. Really, it's more complicated than that, the area has had many racial tensions for years. But it has nothing to do with the rest of the country. It's sad to see you generalise like that:( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Ashton Gate Lest anyone could not imagine what it would feel like for a "non-soccer country" like Australia to score three goals in ten minutes in a World Cup game, check out the 100+ letters to the Sydney Morning Herald. Link at: http://blogs.smh.com.au/worldcup/archives/2006/06/world_meet_aust.html#114960. There were 10,000 people in Melbourne CBD celebrating last night. It was unbelievably passionate. But really, Soccer here is still the poor cousin of other sports like it is in Canada. Hopefully the momentum keeps going after this tourny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Ashton Gate Lest anyone could not imagine what it would feel like for a "non-soccer country" like Australia to score three goals in ten minutes in a World Cup game, check out the 100+ letters to the Sydney Morning Herald. Link at: http://blogs.smh.com.au/worldcup/archives/2006/06/world_meet_aust.html#114960. There were 10,000 people in Melbourne CBD celebrating last night. It was unbelievably passionate. But really, Soccer here is still the poor cousin of other sports like it is in Canada. Hopefully the momentum keeps going after this tourny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoyleG Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack I kinda lost all respect for Australia after I found out what a racist and intolerant place it is. All the sporting glory in the world can't hide that fact. Aren't we a little pissed because Australia is doin well at the World Cup while Canada didn't even make it. Suck it up buttercup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 what was the score the last time we played Japan in competition and also the score the last time we played T&T in competition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 0-3 and 0-4, respectively.... Both away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massive Attack Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 quote:Originally posted by DoyleG Aren't we a little pissed because Australia is doin well at the World Cup while Canada didn't even make it. Suck it up buttercup. Australia's success doesn't bother me at all, why should it? If that was the case, I'd be pissed at all the nations at the World Cup. What a stupid thing to say. I'm just a little tired at the way that everyone on this forum comes in their pants when the topic is Australia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrebel Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 I think the disgust comes fromt eh fact that canada cannot even get to the finals of CONCACAF quailifying. Then we turn on the tv and see Australia manhandle a team that trounced canada. It is pathetic, embarrassing, humiliating.... to see canada get beaten at home by countries who do not even qualify for the WC. The CSA directors should be axed!! It amazes me how everyone sees the solution as "Lets bring in a south american/european coach". Lets get some people who actually have to produce some results. They should be building some decent training facilities and actually put some money into the program. Until that happens canadina soccer fans will continue to look at countries like Australia and be filled with feelings of embarrassment and anger. The country is comparable to Canada and soccer is not a huge sport in Australia. Canadian soccer is at an all-time low and until peoplpe demand results and accountability, nothing will change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 quote:Canadian soccer is at an all-time low and until peoplpe demand results and accountability, nothing will change. Four years ago Australia played in the Oceania Nations Cup. We lost to New Zealand, the players that played were all from the old National League, only one player that is now in the Aussie World Cup team played in that tournament, Scott Chipperfield. He himself, had to pay his own way to travel to the tournament and every player had to pay for their own accomodation and travel. This was all because Soccer Australia was bankrupt from mismanagement and incompetence at the top. The situation that Canada is in now is far from that so I don't buy the whole doom and gloom outlook purported by some. Australian soccer was in such a woeful state that it required a government inquiry, the Crawford Report, I don't think Canada is in any near as bad shape as Australia was then. This article was quite a good one, but I vehemiantly reject the part about Australia having a greater scope for success because it is a sporting nation. This is just rubbish. Every country enjoys seeing their teams do well on the international stage and Canada would be no different. There just needs to be more competent people in charge who can bring more money and sponsorships into the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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