The Beaver Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 quote:Originally posted by nolando First off, we know that Yallop would have had an open invitation right from the beginning from MLS to come back, probably even mid-season if the situation was right. We also know that Yallop was always vey committed to our prgram, both as a player and a manager. What I see Yallop doing today is following through on a threat, or using his MLS offer as leverage. Can't you imagine hime saying, "I need X amount of games and X amount of dollars over the next couple years to make the kind of progress I need to make with this program." I can even see him making his final demands last night and saying that he was going on record saying he wants to be Canada's manager, but that the CSA could make (or keep) some promises or he was going to walk. This guy always loved Canada, both the country and the program. No question of passion of patriotism. And if we are questioning anybody's professionalism, we should probably at least look equally at the CSA. That's the side of the story that we rarely see or hear about (or criticize). Yes, but from the CBC report: "It didn't have anything to do with Frank being unhappy with the national team," CSA spokesman Earl Cochrane told the Canadian Press. "Frank is still a young coach and I think he missed the day-to-day things associated with coaching a team." Perhaps this is just CSA spin and PR, or perhaps there is something to the claim that he wanted day-to-day contact with a team. He IS that sort of coach. Mind you, in light of yesterday's interview--as you point out--one has to wonder if he was just trying to leverage something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Manuel Canada needs a Latin coach, so among other things he can teach Canadian players that diving every once in a while is advantageous. This is precisely what we don't need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timotas Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 Echo what most of you say. Absolutely shocked that he left, especially after that interview on the Score yesterday. Really sounded that he was going to be around for a while. Oh well, maybe it's for the best and this change will be positive for our national side. I think the key thing here is, "change"... such as most of you said above, about bringing a latin coach into the mix. Although it may be tough bringing in a latin coach, considering most of our players are European based and play a European game, which is exactly suited for our region. Yallop made a choice. Good riddance and good luck in LA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beaver Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 Nolando--I don't think a Holger type is the right way to go either. And maybe a Latin-American coach would do well, but I'm pretty confident we will not attract the sort of quality we need. In fact, considering our circumstances--all of them--I cannot help but feel that a Yankee or Canuck coach is the way to go. I'd love a French coach or a Brazilian, but I wonder if they'd be the best fit for our guys. Bruce Arena would do well, but he's sort of busy--for now. Sven-Goran-Erickson should be out of a job in a couple weeks--Come on, England!--but I doubt we'll nab him. If we could say with any sort of credibility that the team we will field next WCQ is one of the best ever, then perhaps the CSA needs to dig deep and get a big money, big talent coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosehead Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 The sad thing is we don't have a strong media to find out what is going on and it seems like the coaches are signing something because they are silent on their departure as to the CSA. Perhaps, someone should call the CSA and Yallop and find out what happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beaver Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 Yeah, but what would Yallop say? I think he'll take the high road. He's a professional and it will do him little good to dish any behind-the-scenes crap between he and the CSA etc. If he truly loves Canada and truly hopes we will become a credible force internationally, then the best thing he could do--I think--is give us the truth. Yeah, it might not get us too far, but if he points an honest--but bitter free--finger at the CSA, it might trigger a useful response. Or, as many of us feel, it might not do a bloody thing. sorry for sounding depressing. I'm generally optimistic. I just get this feeling that Yallop's decision to move is further indication of the problems at the CSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beaver Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 Oh, this just in: Yallop's people say he left the national program because "Those pricks at the CSA took down the banner of some of our fiercest fans, and I couldn't stand this bs any longer." If only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Boy Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 How about a coach from the Easten Bloc? Czech or Croatian... they are always great technically and have the ability to be more creative than the typical Euro style. Gotsta love Nedved or Poborsky... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Oranje Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 I think Yallop was ok in terms of on-field coaching but I don't think he was exceptional when you compare him to what would be available. I think his weakness was more on the Player Management side because I think there were errors made in player selection during WCQ. Although, the player management issues may not have been all his responsibility. I like the idea of Van't Schip and he will have a natural break point after the World Cup and his Dutch National Team affiliation. He may be possible as a fulltime coach. However, I feel if we go after a big name foreign coach, it will only be possible in partnership with the Toronto MLS franchise and some MLSE money. This approach might actually give the CSA some clout in dealing with European clubs and player releases. Some coaches come to mind: - Vanderlei Luxemborgo, Brazil - Current Coach of Santos. Had little success at Real Madrid or with the Brazilian National team but he has had a great deal of success at club level in Brazil and with young players. I'm sure we can pay as much as Santos pays him. At the same time, I don't think the CSA could control this guy. - Zico, Brazil - Current Japan Coach and would be high profile and maybe too expensive. - Erwin Koeman - Current Feyenoord coach and might be a way into the mind of JDG2. Personally, I think he may one of top Dutch Coaches in the next 20 years. Might be expensive but less than Zico. The joint coaching opportunity might be interesting for someone like him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrennanFan Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 We need a coach who: - has qualified for the world cup, or - has coached in one of the big 4 in europe or - has won a club championship in a tier 2 euro league or in the argentinian, brazilian, or mexican league Mitchell is another step towards mediocrity. what has he ever won as a coach? nothing. we can afford better than that. if we dont get a really good coach, we're done before we start. its not back to square one here. our recent success was not bc of yallop, it was because our core guys were starting to gel. as long as we get good coach the team is fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 One advantage of a foreign manager would be, in thoeory, that the player pool could be analysed with some fresh eyes, giving players a fresh start. I won't be disappointed if DDR is not in the starting eleven versus Jamaica. This is the only disadvantage I see with Mitchell. I would imagine the timeline will be pretty long here. Wouldn't surprise me to see Mister Bates running the show come time for the friendly with Jamaica. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildboy26 Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Rudi No, but I can assure you that you're a dumbass for making that bet in the first place, and coming on to the board with an incredibly cocky attitude about it to boot. Well making that bet made perfect sense at the time since it was very obvious Lars was shunned from the Canadian Soccer team when Yallop took over. I made that bet not knowing he would resign. There was no indication he was going to resign, and his being there was the reason it was obvious enough that Lars was excluded from any involvement with Canadian Soccer that it made sense to make the bet. There was no indication he might resign, I dont know how I was supposed to forsee that happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ref Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 quote:Originally posted by The Beaver Are Brazilians technically "Latino" when they in fact speak Portuguese? I think they are as Latino, as the Italians, French, Mexicans, Argentinians, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 Surprised as anyone else. That much is for sure. I must be in the minority but I honestly think that given how our MNT program is set up it is very possible for the NT coach to pull double duty at a club level, especially in MLS and not skip a beat. Apparently the powers that be at the CSA also feel otherwise. There's plenty to agree with that's all ready been written and being a bunch of gossips it'll go on for a while yet 'cause it is kinda fun to speculate but I'm going to suggest that this divorce isn't exactly breaking hearts in either the Yallop or the CSA camp. Might say that this relationship never turned out to be quite what either side expected , had run it's course, and it was now time to move on. Not to speak ill of the dead (as it were) but I'll not miss the Frankie Yallop Experience one bit. He was in over his head. Didn't understand international football (although now he's probably learnt a few lessons after collecting a CSA paycheck) and we have precious little to show from these last two years outside of home and home victories over Belize, and meaningless-last-day-of-tourny wins over Guatemala and Cuba. He's planted some seeds, and done his best and hopefully the NT program can find something worth keeping from his ideas. And I suppose that's the best we can hope for at this point. That makes two coachs who've left he fold seemingly out of the blue by "mutual agreement". Think Holger landed softer in getting a gig with FIFA than Frankie has by going to L.A. As to a replacement, I don't think the senior side is the priority right now so the interviews will likely be numerous and not exactly hurried. Interm coach is going to come from within the ranks and may be there for quite a while. Mitch and the CSA I expect are fully focused on the U20s, and rightly so, so I don't expect Mitchell to succeed the throne until after the WYC but I'm pencilling him as the rightfull heir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolando Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 Guys, great discussion going here. In all this talk over what kind of coach we need, I donft see many people who seem to agree with me that we need a coach who understands CONCACAF, the countries, the weather, the opposing fans, the refereeing. Do most of you REALLY think that we need another old-school Holger or a second-rate version of him (letfs not forget he came with credibility)? Maybe someone who helps us pull better results against European sides, moves us up the rankings, gets the program a little more respect in Europe? I dunnocI canft help but think that while it is nice to get the results against the Swiss and the Austrians and such, none of this Eurocentric thinking is getting us any closer to qualifying in a group made up of Latin American and Caribbean nations. Unless we get somebody who can help us beat Gautemala in Guatemala City, or a draw out of Azteca, or a dirty win out of San Jose, it wonft matter if we have Sven or even Gus here helping us. I know we have most of our best guys playing in Europe, but unless we can make them more adaptable to CONCACAF conditions, usually on short notice, we havenft got a hope in hell of even our grandkids seeing Canada play again in the big show. The US finds a way to adapt. And do you know what I think helps? Having so many of their guys either in the MLS or feeding out from the MLS where the bulk of the top CONCACAF opponents are playing. Thatfs not me advocating bringing our best from Europe back to the MLS, but rather an argument for at least realizing that we donft beat Honduras and Panama and Costa Rica by playing more often against Scotland and Northern Island and Luxemburg. And certainly NOT but trying to emulate those same European programs. We need a coach who understands our unique problem, and who understands it needs a unique solution. Somebody who would put all the games in St. Johnfs or Halifax or Kingston if it meant having home support and maybe a cold rainy evening to greet the Jamaicans. Somebody who will coach our guys around the shoddy refereeing, to take the professional fouls when needed, to not take the Pesch and Stalteri red cards because they were expecting and adapting to the refereeing to begin with. We need nothing short of the kind of magicians touch that Hiddink gave to Korea and (to a lesser extent) Australia. We need a Bora. We need a miracle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 P.S. Please, no SA coach. This wishfull thinking that we can turn a catepillar into a butterfly isn't going to happen. Yes, it's all very pretty the way they play but it's certainly not without it faults and Canada isn't no catepillar just waiting for some TLC and guidance to begin it's transformation. Nope. We're more of a, I don't know, maybe a aging entry-level muscle car. A GM. Say a small block Chevelle. Bit dated to look at. Rust and wear and tear have set in, but still not without some style or appeal to the eye. Being 2nd, 3rd or 14th hand of course the previous owners have all tweeked, tuned, used and abused it so admittedly the new coach will be getting a bit of a dog's breakfast of modifications which together, sometimes don't make any scense. But there it is. The good news is parts are cheap! Which is really good because the bad news is we're on a budget... So what we need isn't some fancy-smancy German or Italian mechanic. What we need is a good old back-yard jack of all trades. With experience. Some one who knows mechanical, knows body work, can tune, drive, has the streetsmarts to find the parts he needs on the cheap and is politician enough to let the wife let him prick around with this project for completely unreasonable amounts of time. But if we can get the right guy, given a bit of time maybe we could have some fun. Sure, come Sunday night that aging Chevelle still won't be able to keep up with the late model Dodges and the new Mustangs but those flash little self-propelled Jap sound systems with all their shiny bolt-ons and Bad Haircuts behind the wheel could just be in for a spanking. And ****, you know what? All that styling just looses something in the translation when you spend all that time looking at it in your rear view mirror. ZOOM. ZOOM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolando Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Canuck Oranje Some coaches come to mind: - Zico, Brazil - Current Japan Coach and would be high profile and maybe too expensive. Zico has gone on record that this will be his last job in football. Good suggestion though. Not that I like him, but a good example of someone who is coaching fairly successfully in a very foreign culture, and who has had a direct impact in the kind of people being played in his host country. And just to note, Zico and Troussier (who I think did a hero's job) both came with translators the whole time. Neither of them can speak more than a lick of Japanese. It can be done if the associations are serious enough and are willing to pay for the right medicine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadasBest Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 On one hand i'm surprised at these turn of events, on the other hand I think the timing is right. As a fan I was excited to have Frank Yallop come on board. That excitement turned quickly to dissapointment with some of his player selections (Watson, Onstad...). It's very hard to judge Yallop's performance based on only 2 years. He only had 6 months to prepare for qualifying and to his credit that is really not enough time to get things going. All in all i'd like to wish Yallop all the best in his future career and i'm sure alot of us will keep an eye on his performance in the future. It would be nice to know if this was Yallop's decision, or if the CSA had decided not to renew his option for 2010. As I understand the Option had not yet been agreed to by the CSA. It seems like a mutual departure. I have alot of respect for what Mitchell has done with the U-20 team, but I am praying that he is not selected to head our national team. The CSA will be getting resumes from Proven World Coaches, especially after they get fired after this world cup. (Or options not picked up etc.) Bruce Arena is the man I would like to see head up our Men's World Cup Program. The USSF has decided to wait until after the world cup before discussing any contract extension from what I understand. A bad World Cup run here could free up Mr. Arena. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolando Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 quote:Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone One advantage of a foreign manager would be, in thoeory, that the player pool could be analysed with some fresh eyes, giving players a fresh start. I won't be disappointed if DDR is not in the starting eleven versus Jamaica. This is the only disadvantage I see with Mitchell. While I agree that it is always exciting to see what a new coach's first roster will be, I find it hard to believe that any new manager would leave DDR off a roster of Canada eighteen, or even fifteen for that matter, like we're likely to see in the friedly against Jamaica. This guys looks great on paper, world-class in highlight reels, and even practices well. He's easy going, very dedicated to the Canadian program, and seems to be a loyal and honest leader for any young developing team. He just rarely brings his very best game to the MNT, no matter how hard seems to try. A new manager is going to find it hard to see that through the accolades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolando Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 quote:Originally posted by gwallace76 Bruce Arena is the man I would like to see head up our Men's World Cup Program. The USSF has decided to wait until after the world cup before discussing any contract extension from what I understand. A bad World Cup run here could free up Mr. Arena. I hate to say it (as a stereotypical Canadian with an American grudge in my back pocket), but that's not a half-bad choice. Here's a guy that would say what he thinks, do exactly what he believes, and maybe give the Canadian old soccer boys a long-overdo ruffling. He is very familiar with the club-vs-country problems, with the domestic league vs european league issues. He knows CONCACAF well and has gone into the trenches with his team into some of the filthiest latin and caribbean dens and come out with results. He wouldn't thumb his nose at the A-League (not with Ching on his WC roster at least) He probably wouldnt stand a chance of getting a job in the MLS considering the remarks he has made against them over the years. He's got no obvious European lineage like Yallop that might make him a good candidate to be taken seriously in the CCC or somewhere other (after finishing up with the WC). So why not Canada?? Qualifying with the USA should be pretty much a given. Qualifying with Canada would be the accomplishment of a lifetime, perhaps even while scalping his former employer in the process. I like him as one of the final three choices, at very least. Now, who to else to bring in as a serious candidate?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 It is indifferent from where a coach is from. Arguing about Latin types is tremendously ignorant, considering anyone who knows ARgentine football will know the great tactical differences and arguments between schools there (Bilardo vs. Menotti). We need someone good though, with experience, with ambition, who can get some results for us. I want someone from outside of Canada because I don't think we have a wide enough pool of coaches in Canada to draw from, nothing more. If we did I'd be happy to hire someone from here. Our budget limitations are notorious, anyone coming on here and naming a famous coach is being childish. WE are at least half a million dollars short of hiring anyone with any top notch reputation. After that, there are tons of chances out there for someone with talent looking for a new challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tg-13 Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca Forrest has zero coaching experience and can't be a serious candidate for that reason. Mitchell would be good, but the timing for such a move isn't given the U20 2007 World Cup. We have a Gold Cup next year as well and we need the new coach fully on board well before that time, ideally by the time we play Jamaica. Richard Bates......hmmmmm, can't help but wonder if he has anything to do with this move by Yallop. That's total speculation on my part. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss Forrest as a potential candidate. Jurgen Klinsmann had no previous coaching experience before being appointed manager of Germany. Marco Van Basten had only one year as an assistant with the Ajax juniors before being made coach of the Netherlands. Other high-profile players like Hristo Stoichkov and Gheorghe Hagi likewise had no experience when appointed head coach of their respective countries. Forrest is about as high-profile an ex-player as we have; if he wants the job, he'll likely at least be seriously considered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolando Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S. It is indifferent from where a coach is from. Arguing about Latin types is tremendously ignorant, considering anyone who knows ARgentine football will know the great tactical differences and arguments between schools there (Bilardo vs. Menotti). whoah now...while their may be no single "latin type" of coach or style football for that matter, there certainly could still be made an argument for a manager who has some knowledge of the most common styles of latin football, particularly the styles played in CONCACAF...ain't nothing ignorant about that...except for the ignorance upon the part of the CSA and their like who think that Canadian soccer can exist in a bubble vis-a-vis their regional competition, with their strongest ties to Europe, and just showing up for a qualifier now and again as their only contact with CONCACAF football. It's not enough to raise the quality of Canadian football in a generic sense like it is some sort of liquid quality that is easily applied to any situation. We must be coached into the hex..and we must be coached out of the hex...CONCACAF must be our only focus. If playing games against strong competition in other zones serves a purpose now and again (as undoubtedly it does), then great, but let's get a manager who can get us focused again on the job at hand...it's that simple... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 quote:Originally posted by tg-13 I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss Forrest as a potential candidate. Jurgen Klinsmann had no previous coaching experience before being appointed manager of Germany. Marco Van Basten had only one year as an assistant with the Ajax juniors before being made coach of the Netherlands. Other high-profile players like Hristo Stoichkov and Gheorghe Hagi likewise had no experience when appointed head coach of their respective countries. Yeah, but those countries were in far better shape in terms of talent & extensive player pool than we are, and didn't face the same obstacle that we currently do. We need a coach with experience (preferably international experience) who can lift us past the obstacles we face, and I have less faith that a complete rookie coach will be able to do that - look how long Yallop, who had coaching experience, took to learn the international coaching job properly. I would like an internationally experienced coach to come in right now & have us fully primed by the time 2008 comes along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bxl Boy Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 There are also some non latin coaches who understand Concacaf very well What about Beenhakker, who trained in Mexico and now TnT ? Or, of course, Bora Milutinovic There are others, I'm sure Maybe we need someone who is used to player making long travels to play for their team Someone who trained in Africa for example Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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