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CSA Explain Yourselves !


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I have a hunch the CSA boys read this forum and have read this whole thread. If I knew of an active internet chat forum that discussed what I do at work I'd sure as hell read it. The Brazilian fans bought their tickets to get in. Once they got in they weren't going to buy any CSA merchandise. There was no more money to be made from them, so why let them have a dance squad? Why go out of your way to make opposing fans and opposing teams happy in your stadium, is there something to gain from it?

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I'm of the opinion, the Voyageurs need to become an official organization. I know there's a lot of bs that comes along with it, but we'd gain legitimacy and better media representation in dealing with the CSA.

There's a lot of dedication and effort here and unfortunately a lot of it goes unnoticed - that could change by becoming an official group.

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quote:Originally posted by River City

I'm of the opinion, the Voyageurs need to become an official organization. I know there's a lot of bs that comes along with it, but we'd gain legitimacy and better media representation in dealing with the CSA.

There's a lot of dedication and effort here and unfortunately a lot of it goes unnoticed - that could change by becoming an official group.

Agree.

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Guest speedmonk42

If you look at the sambaqueen website, which I am pretty sure is the group that was there, they show up to everything from gay pride marches to Chinese new year.

I can't imagine them not showing up to a brazil soccer game, and it wouldn't be the first time in Vancouver at a brazil game or a whitecaps game.

Equally implausible is the CSA's ability to stop such a thing. Perhaps they could if they had contracted another group and part of that contract was no other in stadium entertainment. This may be a way to block it. However, if the intention was to block it and even a WHIFF of that got out the CSA would become a lightening rod for every anti immigrant/racist blah blah argument you can think of.

This would not help us or soccer at all.

I don't like it, but what is at fault here is our and the CSA's innability to communicate and build something better.

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I wasn't at the game and I understand that all supporters should be treated as the same, but did this Brazilian band effect the game or just the voyaguers experience at the game?

And isn't up to home supporters to organise and make noise? And by saying that the CSA should support such an effort, not repress it.

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quote:Originally posted by CSAplayer

hey everyone.. i'm new here, i happen to be a player from the U-20 squad that played in the brazil series. who i infact am is irrelivant but i thought i might be able to comment on some things from a players perspective.

This whole fan deal is indeed bothersome, the amount of catering we do as a nation is demoralizing as a player. picture a friendly series IN brazil...i'm sure they wouln't have canadian cultural music playing with canadian go-go dancers during warm up... we get a bit confused watching the brazilians laughing and dancing to their own music in warm up at a match in a different country.. i'm glad you guys noticed this aswell, it difficult to motivate urself for your country when they're buisy ordering foreign dance teams...

i really appreciate all the trouble u guys go through to support us, and i just though i'd let u know that it doesn't go unnoticed by the players. thanks for all of your support.

...a thankfull U-20 player..

ummmm Canadian Go Go dancers....ummmmm

The fact that you wear the Canada shirt should be enough motivation. And then there the fact that you might get a nice contract if you do well...

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quote:Originally posted by speedmonk42

If you look at the sambaqueen website, which I am pretty sure is the group that was there, they show up to everything from gay pride marches to Chinese new year.

I can't imagine them not showing up to a brazil soccer game, and it wouldn't be the first time in Vancouver at a brazil game or a whitecaps game.

Equally more implausible the CSA's ability to stop such a thing. Perhaps they could if they had contracted another group and part of that contract was no other in stadium entertainment. This may be a way to block it. However, if the intention was to block it and even a WHIFF of that got out the CSA would become a lightening rod for every anti immigrant/racist blah blah argument you can think of.

This would not help us or soccer at all.

I don't like it, but what is at fault here is our and the CSA's innability to communicate and build something better.

What sweet nothings has Grizzly been whispering in your ear on your romantic outings in Montreal. Please get your head out of your arse. A Canada supporter wasn't allowed to bring his flag. If Johnnie Monster showed up with a drum, half the Burnaby regiment would be there before he sipped his first beer.

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Guest speedmonk42
quote:Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone

What sweet nothings has Grizzly been whispering in your ear on your romantic outings in Montreal. Please get your head out of your arse. A Canada supporter wasn't allowed to bring his flag. If Johnnie Monster showed up with a drum, half the Burnaby regiment would be there before he sipped his first beer.

I am not sure what you mean. Read what I wrote.

In no way do I suggest treatment of our fans or the v's is acceptable.

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My brother (a computer systems tech or something so not exactly a poster boy for violent hooliganism) took his wife, my Mom, his three kids (7, 9 and 10) to the Edmonton u-20 game and was joined by his boss, one coleague from work and his two kids (8,9). I came in at half time and noticed he'd brought some parts of his drum set but they were sitting on the floor unused.

I asked why, and he said the ushers told the kids they could bring it in, but if they started to play the drums, they would be confiscated. I then started encouraging the kids to play as I would've enjoyed watching Security come in and forcibly remove dangerous musical instruments from the hands of little kids. Those pictures would have been classic.

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Speedmonkey, you said it was "implausible" to stop a Brasilian band from playing in the stadium. Do I need to further illustate the absurdity of that statement? Let's see, what could CSA security do to stop it? Hmm. How about...

Say no. No musical instruments or unfit women exposing themselves allowed.

I can't believe Canadians could be so lame as to feel this could be construed as "racist." Oh no, what might happen, the Brasilian's might boycott Swangard. Who knows, it might start a latino movement. Next thing you know there's no Guats, Hondurans, or Costa Ricans coming out to games. What would we do then?

great them. In any other country they'd be shanked and nobody would be surprised or care.

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quote:Originally posted by loyola

I'm not expecting an U-20 player to give is name here but I wouldn't expect the CSA or any provincial association to give a lot of credibility to an anonymous letter. Doesn't cost anything to send this post but I,m not sure it will help.

On a largely anonymous website like this, I don't think we can presume anyone is exactly who they say they are, especially without a name or some other comments that automatically lend themselves towards credibility (like with those of Paul's wife, and the odd senior player who has dropped by). My first read of the alleged player's posting threw up red flags in my mind, as it smacks more of a bored V on his day off (the beast is back?) than a player proud of his personal opinion. If it toruns out to be legitimate, then great, I am ecstatic that a young player would not only drop by but voice his opinion as well. For the moment though, attaching this to a group letter only seems to make it LESS likely that anyone would take our claims seriously.

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Guest speedmonk42

Why go out of your way to make opposing fans and opposing teams happy in your stadium, is there something to gain from it?

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My point is that it is not clear they are.

If we are going to make things better, we better at least understand why and how these things are happening.(from security problems to what appears to be catering to visitng fans)

The security problem can and I feel will be dealt with. 'Bannergate' will be start of this.

The visiting fan problem is not so clear. I would be floored if the CSA paid for the samba band, and very pi$$d off. On the other hand I would like to hear how anyone would suggest they stop such a thing without committing suicide.

The only option is for us to fill the void, and that is no easy task.

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Guest speedmonk42

Speedmonkey, you said it was "implausible" to stop a Brasilian band from playing in the stadium.

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Yes, implausible does not equal impossible.

If I was running security I would tell them to F**K 0ff. I wouldn't have a job the next day... but it would be worth it for Canadaian soccer.

But there in lies the problem I am trying to point out.

Do I need to further illustate the absurdity of that statement?

----------------

yes because you are talking about shanking people, and I am trying to point out why it might be difficult for the CSA to stop these things. We are on the same side here. I am totaly against it.

Let's see, what could CSA security do to stop it? Hmm. How about...

Say no. No musical instruments or unfit women exposing themselves allowed.

---------------------------

Our inabilty to organize our fans is not their fault. We want musical instruments, we just want 1000 of them to be ours.

I can't believe Canadians could be so lame as to feel this could be construed as "racist."

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Oh man you think for a second they wouldn't pull the race card on that? Damn right they would.

I am not supporting them, I am trying to illustrate why the CSA would have to be very careful how it limited the actions of a cultural group in Canada. The price you pay could be very high.

great them. In any other country they'd be shanked and nobody would be surprised or care.

-------------------------

We don't live in any country, and by all accounts that sounds like a good thing.

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Damn, it killed me to see our lads searching and searching for a friendly Canadian fan in the crowd. Will Johnson looked over and saw us and appeared a tiny bit relieved--we were swarmed on one side by a throng of canary-piss yellow. First half, Edgar heard us chanting and gave us a nice clap and nod. Perers glanced over, but seemed intimidated by the mass of shouting yellow buffoons to our right. What sucks, in part, is that I can handle ex-pat Brazilians cheering for Brazil--I'll always cheer for Canada, no matter where I'm living--but I can't stand the rest of these Canadians cheering for Brazil and laughing at us as we cheer for Canada. Yeah, it is a free country etc, but it sucks all the same to face this so many bloody times.

There seemed to be a good many Canadian fans in the grandstand. They need to be gathered and bolstered and led in song and chant. We need our own section. The CSA needs to do this for our lads: Not for us. I could care less about our needs. We're big lads: we'll take care of ourselves. But goddammit, CSA, don't get in our way as we try to do your job: supporting our teams!! Come on!

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The point here is not what the CSA can do to prevent honest vocal opposition fans from cheering their squad. The point here is that last Thursday's entertainment was provided care of the CSA. Whether or not the festivities were paid for by the CSA isn't even the point. The point is that the dancers and band were organized. The event was organized with the CSA's blessing. This dance squad and drums did not simply meet up in the parking lot before the big event. They had their own tent set up in the South West corner of the field and were organizing well before the fans were allowed in the stadium. It is absolute rubbish that the CSA is condoning events that help psych up opposing teams and/or their fans. It needs to stop.

That being said I agree that we need to make ourselves legitimate. I think more needs to be done, and I don't think we're going to get very far if we're not being taken seriously.

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I've heard back today from Mr.Cochrane but unfortunately we'll have to wait a couple of days because this has been forwarded to the Deputy CEO John Billingsley. Mr. Cochrane advised me to contact him if I do not get a reply from Mr. Billingsley by mid week and he'll get the answers we're looking for.

Mr.Cochrane does feel we deserve an explanation and is at a loss to understand why the banner would be removed.

It seems to me that someone at the CSA is scrambling to do some damage control on this.

I am committed to getting the answers on behalf of the group and will not stop until I do so.

We're going to have to be patient.

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quote:Originally posted by nolando

On a largely anonymous website like this, I don't think we can presume anyone is exactly who they say they are, especially without a name or some other comments that automatically lend themselves towards credibility (like with those of Paul's wife, and the odd senior player who has dropped by). My first read of the alleged player's posting threw up red flags in my mind, as it smacks more of a bored V on his day off (the beast is back?) than a player proud of his personal opinion. If it toruns out to be legitimate, then great, I am ecstatic that a young player would not only drop by but voice his opinion as well. For the moment though, attaching this to a group letter only seems to make it LESS likely that anyone would take our claims seriously.

It does sound sincere to me. I'm going to forward it.

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quote:Originally posted by speedmonk42

This backfired on the Americans, deliberate or not.

I believe there are a few lawsuits like this in the states...I am not going to look for more, but you get the idea.

http://www.espn.go.com/soccer/s/2002/0614/1395088.html

Well, from the read of that articule the bias seems pretty absolute and probably worthy of a lawsuit or at the very least a hardy slap on the wrist. If there's any truth to it, it was a bad program and I don't think that anyone would suggest mirroring it in any shape or form.

But I think you'd have a hard time finding fault with a policy of reserving a block of a couple of hundred seats for declared Canadian supporters in sections x,y or z until a day or two before kick-off (there after being made available 1st come 1st serve). Especially if the curtosy was allowed the away supporters as well.

I mean it's not like you have to take an oath or write a test or something. If you want to wear yellow and sit in amongst the Canada supports to get your jollys just buy tickets in the Canada supports zone. You're just marshalling like minded people in the same sections, you're not excluding anybody.

As has been already suggested, it's as simple as asking people if they'd prefer to buy tickets for the designated home or away supports and if they do they'll have to buy in section so-and-so.

I mean come on, how hard is that?

You want floor seats for the concert? Lower bowl? Stage left, stage right?

Happens all the time, every day, for every event. It's up to the CSA to demand conditions and see that they're met.

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It's ridiculous that that banner was taken down, but that's the problem with the kind of organization we've put together here. I agree with the others who have connected this with the fact that we have no centralization, no spokesperson, no structure.

I love the flexibility and openness that the Voyageurs have, and I have enjoyed chatting with you guys and watching matches with big groups of pro-Canada fans. But when it comes to things like this, if we had someone who could call the CSA, get in touch with the match organizers, and have some ground rules in place (the Voyageurs get to sit here, they are bringing these banners and flags, the Brazilian samba band isn't allowed to come near their part of the pitch, whatever), it would benefit us.

The Voyageurs Cup got a surprising amount of response from the media and from the organizations involved. Why? Because we were organized, and because there was one single person who responded to every question, suggestion, and request. Until the Voyageurs do the same, some e-mails after the fact aren't going to accomplish much.

That said, I agree that the e-mail to Cochrane was great and that kind of approach will definitely help.

But what's even better is when you call up and say, Hey Cochrane, hey Billingsley, it's John Doe from the Voyageurs, howya doing, listen, I got a couple of things we should talk about. (My only problem as the mouthpiece of the Voyageurs Cup was that the comms people for the teams -- and the teams themselves -- came and went so fast!)

Anyhow, I'm not trying to get down on you guys for what you're doing here. But I'll add my voice to those who have advocated better organization. I'm not sure what kind of effect we can have otherwise.

Cheers

M@

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Guest speedmonk42
quote:Originally posted by Cheeta

But I think you'd have a hard time finding fault with a policy of reserving a block of a couple of hundred seats for declared Canadian supporters in sections x,y or z until a day or two before kick-off (there after being made available 1st come 1st serve). Especially if the curtosy was allowed the away supporters as well.

I agree and I think we can make this happen.

Hopefully 'bannergate' will be the source of good things to come.

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One of you guys living in Canada have to step up and do this. Nominate some candidates for "Voyageurs Rep" and have a vote here. The guy you voted in could have a sticky thread on this board where he/she relays the results of his communications with the CSA and others for people here to read and comment on. Voyageurs here could in turn vote on possible next steps to be taken to push forward our agenda, making supporting Canadian soccer better easier more efficient.

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