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Inter Toronto FC - Toronto MLS clubs' new name?


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quote:Originally posted by Franky

yes G-L, on cue; it was 1993, the Americans had but 4 (four) pro teams left (technically three, one was an expansion franchise) and no dignity left (whatsoever). The MNT was fairly competitive, but will fall into a downward spiral. The Americans were banking on the 1994 World Cup for a legacy in the future, yes the MLS but until then, where are players going to play. with only four teams remaining, APSL were going to close shop altogether. ALong comes JOEY SAPUTO and GETS PERMISSION FROM THE CSA TO ENTER A CANADIAN FRANCHISE INTO THE APSL (GET IT MONTREAL!!!, ISN"T IT IRONIC, DON'T YOU THINK, LOL!!)

APSL now approaches CSL for a merger but are not keen on the idea, except Vancouver's Lenarduzzi, who starts rekindling memories of the old NASL heydays and envisions the possibility of a reborn NASL. Franky Aliaga Sr. owner of the Montreal Supra, feels he should apply for the montreal spot instead of Joey's, but is refused. Joe Parolini and the Blizzard salivate at the idea of a reborn NASL, so they apply too. CSA grants the 86ers and Blizzard permission to enter the APSL, Fontana (Rockets), Cantafio (Fury), Aliaga Sr. (Supra) all denied????? wtf. thus, ending the CSL, as it moves forward and merges with Rocco Lofranco's NSL Ontario and Quebec (bad move) creating the CNSL.

Therefore, American players are allowed a stay of execution until the MLS is finally drawn up and players are hand picked from the existing APSL/A-League whatever it was called at the time. Ohhh btw, the A-League in a desperate attmpt to salvage their product, invite the USISL??? to merge and create an expanded A-League. Thus again, ending Lenarduzzi's dream of resurrecting the old NASL and 86ers face off with the likes of, the Zodiac, Flash, Geckos, Thunder, Jaguars, who else??? uhmm...Riverboat Gamblers (luv that one), Nashville (network) Metros, etc, etc.

Right you are brother !

Canada's professional soccer landscape sacrificed itself tp prop- up the wounded American clubs. The CSL Champion Winnipeg Fury were discarded, as well as the North York Rockets. Both clubs were founding members of the CSL.

The real crime of the CSA is not about who was cut from this national youth team or that national youth team. It's how they sacrificed our national league to salvage the American's. Not surprisingly, look how things have revearsed fortunes since 1992 ! Kevan Pipe and the USL essentially destroyed any vision of a Canadian League. They have not even provided us with the Dominion Cup, that was promised years ago.

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You know, you lot slag Kevan Pipe endlessly. Has it ever occurred to any of you that he serves at the pleasure and under the direction of the board of directors of the CSA who are responsible for the management of the affairs of The Association? That the CSA has a Professional Soccer Committee that deals with matters relating to professional soccer. Kevan Pipe does not operate in isolation and while he is responsible for the day to day operation of the CSA he does not work in a vacuum and is subject to censure at any time should he make decisions or take actions that are not consistent with the policies and will of the board of directors and the membership. Maybe more people ought to actually read the Bylaws of the CSA, see http://www.canadasoccer.com/eng/docs/constitution.pdf!

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quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

TO that is technically true, but how many 905ers really consider themselves residents of Mississauga or whatever other Toronto suburb. When I meet someone from Mississauga they almost always tell me they are from Toronto. The Leafs/Raptors/Jays names are not 905 inclusive either but that doesn't seem to bother anyone.

Yes all of those names start with toronto as would "Toronto City" but it is the "City" part that I find to be insulting to the 905ers.

Also I do not understand why the use of Inter is a Euro rip off but City is not?

I really think it is the predominance of Brit/Brit Heritage people on these board which makes traditional British name ok but a historic Italian name a "rip off"!

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quote:Originally posted by TOareaFan

Yes all of those names start with toronto as would "Toronto City" but it is the "City" part that I find to be insulting to the 905ers.

I think you're really reaching here.

There is absolutely nothing insulting about the name 'City', IMO.

quote:Also I do not understand why the use of Inter is a Euro rip off but City is not?

I really think it is the predominance of Brit/Brit Heritage people on these board which makes traditional British name ok but a historic Italian name a "rip off"!

Both of them are Euro rip offs, but Inter is blatantly attacheing itself to the glory of one team, whereas there are easily half a dozen 'City' teams that come to mind when that name is invoked.

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quote:Originally posted by TOareaFan

Yes all of those names start with toronto as would "Toronto City" but it is the "City" part that I find to be insulting to the 905ers.

Also I do not understand why the use of Inter is a Euro rip off but City is not?

I really think it is the predominance of Brit/Brit Heritage people on these board which makes traditional British name ok but a historic Italian name a "rip off"!

I live in Whitby and I have no problem with City. It's my second favourite after United and I think it is the least controversial. To those outside of the GTA, I live in Toronto - it's easier and we all do it. 905ers will be fine with City - especially if the alternative is a non-word designed to only appeal to one segment, of one ethnic group, that largely resides in one neighbourhood.

Inter is not a word in any language. City is an actual word in English, and English is one of Canada's official languages, is the most spoken, best understood, is shared with the country that all the other MLS teams operate in, and is the primary language of Toronto's and Canada's biggest media outlets. And while "Inter" is really only about one team, I believe that there are 13 team's in England's top four divisions with "City", to say nothing of non-league teams, and other countries. So "City" is not a rip-off the way that "Inter" is. Afterall, we are talking about a team for the City of Toronto.

Yes, this board is abit British-centric, but so is most of Canada, and even the Toronto area. Toronto (formerly York) and Mississauga may have native-Canadian names, but how about Hamilton and Oakville? Here's a fun game: go look at the names of towns and cities to the East of Toronto (Scarborough, Pickering, Whitby, ect), now go look at a map of the East coast of England. BTW, if you check-out the excellent website about endangered British clubs (www.clubsincrisis.com - everyone should see this), you will see that Whitby's small club is threatened because it's cannot get approval to replace it's old condemned stands.

A final note: for those who say "who cares what the name is, we are getting a professional team", you should care. Teams fail and disappear. It's happened before, and it can happen again. The name that is chosen, along with the colours, logo, players and management team, will all play apart in determining whether or not this team makes it. Given the importance of a name in appealing to fans and selling merchandise - crucial factors to the team's bottom line - you should care about the name.

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quote:Originally posted by KAS

That is your opinion. I am on record as being one of those who don't care - but supports the Inter name.

Toronto Blue Jays is a good name? Wonder what the reaction was to that when the name was announced? Or how about Toronto Rock?

I don't particularly like either of those names, yet it doesn't seem to hinder the support they receive(d) from Toronto fans.

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quote:Originally posted by Rudi

I think you're really reaching here.

There is absolutely nothing insulting about the name 'City', IMO.

Both of them are Euro rip offs, but Inter is blatantly attacheing itself to the glory of one team, whereas there are easily half a dozen 'City' teams that come to mind when that name is invoked.

As has been pointed out by others, there are other "Inters" and they are not specifically tied to Italian teams....I think someone pointed out a team in Brataslavia and there is one in South America....showing that Inter (short for International...or other language equivalents) really does reflect the international flavour of Toronto.....how many of those half a dozen 'City's' are outside of England?

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quote:Originally posted by KAS

I live in Whitby and I have no problem with City. It's my second favourite after United and I think it is the least controversial. To those outside of the GTA, I live in Toronto - it's easier and we all do it. 905ers will be fine with City - especially if the alternative is a non-word designed to only appeal to one segment, of one ethnic group, that largely resides in one neighbourhood.

Inter is not a word in any language. City is an actual word in English, and English is one of Canada's official languages, is the most spoken, best understood, is shared with the country that all the other MLS teams operate in, and is the primary language of Toronto's and Canada's biggest media outlets. And while "Inter" is really only about one team, I believe that there are 13 team's in England's top four divisions with "City", to say nothing of non-league teams, and other countries. So "City" is not a rip-off the way that "Inter" is. Afterall, we are talking about a team for the City of Toronto.

Inter is, obviously, just a short form for Internationale (or other language equivalents) so to say it is not a word....a bit of a stretch....there are other "Inters" and they are not all Italian...all of the "Citys" seem to be British....so which name is pandering to one ethnic group?

quote:

Yes, this board is abit British-centric, but so is most of Canada, and even the Toronto area. Toronto (formerly York) and Mississauga may have native-Canadian names, but how about Hamilton and Oakville? Here's a fun game: go look at the names of towns and cities to the East of Toronto (Scarborough, Pickering, Whitby, ect), now go look at a map of the East coast of England. BTW, if you check-out the excellent website about endangered British clubs (www.clubsincrisis.com - everyone should see this), you will see that Whitby's small club is threatened because it's cannot get approval to replace it's old condemned stands.

Relevance please?

quote:

A final note: for those who say "who cares what the name is, we are getting a professional team", you should care. Teams fail and disappear. It's happened before, and it can happen again. The name that is chosen, along with the colours, logo, players and management team, will all play apart in determining whether or not this team makes it. Given the importance of a name in appealing to fans and selling merchandise - crucial factors to the team's bottom line - you should care about the name.

The name only matters if fans stay away from the team because of the name....what I have seen since the "Inter" name was rumoured to been a whole lot of people saying "there they go, pandering to the Italians" and this suggests that non-Italian's will stay away because of the name. I would suggest that this "tribalism" is what has always hurt the game in the Toronto area and it looks like it is continuing on.

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I'm sure the Hartwells will get the blame when pogey park sits empty, except for a few thousand Italian Inter supporters. I'll come up with the best name for the team:

Toronto Blues FC. A nice White Maple Leaf on a blue sheild (al-la the hockey team). A classic blue and white uniform. Labatts as a major sponsor. And of course the FC to keep the North American Europhiles happy.

BUT NO. Lets pander to the largest segement of the largest ethnic group.

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quote:Originally posted by G-Man

The name Toronto Blues FC, now seems to look like a decent fit.

Taken at face value, the above comment is the most constructive thing I've heard from that poster. However, U of Ts varsity teams are known as Blues, so that name may not fly for MLS.

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quote:Originally posted by RealGooner

Taken at face value, the above comment is the most constructive thing I've heard from that poster. However, U of Ts varsity teams are known as Blues, so that name may not fly for MLS.

I think it works on so many levels. But then again, I'm sure MLS a league that brought you the Clash, 1836, Fusion and Wiz would be against a name that the whole city could buy into without the whole ethnic thing creeping in.

Come on you BLUES.

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quote:Originally posted by TOareaFan

Inter is, obviously, just a short form for Internationale (or other language equivalents) so to say it is not a word....a bit of a stretch....there are other "Inters" and they are not all Italian...all of the "Citys" seem to be British....so which name is pandering to one ethnic group?

Relevance please?

The name only matters if fans stay away from the team because of the name....what I have seen since the "Inter" name was rumoured to been a whole lot of people saying "there they go, pandering to the Italians" and this suggests that non-Italian's will stay away because of the name. I would suggest that this "tribalism" is what has always hurt the game in the Toronto area and it looks like it is continuing on.

Ok, a quick reply to your three points:

1. International is an English word, Inter is not. Toronto International is ok if you can convince people you are talking about a team and not an airport. Inter Toronto, however, is purely a rip-off of Milan's shortened name/nickname. Naming the City of Toronto's new team "Toronto City" seems fine to me. At the very least, the name should be a proper English word.

2. Relevence? York/Toronto and the surrounding area was largely founded and built by United Empire Loyalists and immigrants from the British isles. Using a name of British origin is not uncommon and could hardly be considered offensive. Mentioning the importance of attracting the 905 belt only supports the acceptability of a British-based name as the 905 belt is still mostly WASPs and including them in your marketing plan only reduces the importance of any individual downtown immigrant community. If a euro-based name is to be chosen, and any choice is going to be considered "pandering", then it is best to pander to the majority of the GTA population.

3. I agree that tribalism is a problem in garnering widespread support among a diverse population, but I belive that the attacks on Inter as "pandering to the Italians" is not a sign of tribalism on the part of the posters. Rather, it is a sincere effort to eliminate tribalism by encouraging MLSE to not pick a name that will be divisive. Attacking "Inter" as being unsuitable for a large multi-cultural city is not tribalism, it is the supporters of such a name who will be promoting tribalism.

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quote:Originally posted by KAS

Ok, a quick reply to your three points:

1. International is an English word, Inter is not. Toronto International is ok if you can convince people you are talking about a team and not an airport. Inter Toronto, however, is purely a rip-off of Milan's shortened name/nickname. Naming the City of Toronto's new team "Toronto City" seems fine to me. At the very least, the name should be a proper English word.

So if the team was called International Toronto or Toronto International and then the fans/media shortened it to Inter you would be ok with it? All that MLSE seem to be suggesting is cutting out that middle step. If getting a proper English language word is so important, I presume you are in favour of renaming the Leafs the Maple Leaves? The Marlies the Malboroughs? The Argos the Argonauts?

quote:

2. Relevence? York/Toronto and the surrounding area was largely founded and built by United Empire Loyalists and immigrants from the British isles. Using a name of British origin is not uncommon and could hardly be considered offensive. Mentioning the importance of attracting the 905 belt only supports the acceptability of a British-based name as the 905 belt is still mostly WASPs and including them in your marketing plan only reduces the importance of any individual downtown immigrant community. If a euro-based name is to be chosen, and any choice is going to be considered "pandering", then it is best to pander to the majority of the GTA population.

Large portions of the 905 are not Brits. The Woodbridge/Vaughan/Maple areas have very large Italian populations. Markham is home to a lot of people of Oriental descent. Brampton and Mississauga have very large South East Asian populations. Is it not appropriate to reflect the population of the Toronto area as it is now as opposed to what it was in the 50's? Why stop there...go back before the Europeans came here and call them the Toronto Iroquois(sp?).

quote:

3. I agree that tribalism is a problem in garnering widespread support among a diverse population, but I belive that the attacks on Inter as "pandering to the Italians" is not a sign of tribalism on the part of the posters. Rather, it is a sincere effort to eliminate tribalism by encouraging MLSE to not pick a name that will be divisive. Attacking "Inter" as being unsuitable for a large multi-cultural city is not tribalism, it is the supporters of such a name who will be promoting tribalism.

If the name is Internationals how is that pandering to any group? It is reflective of what the city is. Are you saying you will not go if the team is called Inter or Internationals? If so, that is tribalism just as when none of my British relatives/friends would go to Metros Croatia games because "it wasn't their team".

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quote:Originally posted by Richard

Anybody who refuses to attend MLS games for no other reason than they don't like the team names is a rather pathetic excuse for a soccer fan.

Anyone who panders to ethic tribalism is a pathetic excuse of an ownership group. Or anyone who needs close to 60 million in government hand-outs to get involved with pro soccer is a pathetic excuse of an ownership group.

And anyone who dares questions said ownership group is standing up for the game in this country. Which once again is following a well travelled path of failure- simply by not understanding the market.

Corporate Canada doesn't a ratsass about the game in this country. And naming the team Inter-Toronto is simply proof of that. What's next signing Fabien Bartez?

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quote:Originally posted by TOareaFan

So if the team was called International Toronto or Toronto International and then the fans/media shortened it to Inter you would be ok with it? All that MLSE seem to be suggesting is cutting out that middle step. If getting a proper English language word is so important, I presume you are in favour of renaming the Leafs the Maple Leaves? The Marlies the Malboroughs? The Argos the Argonauts?

Large portions of the 905 are not Brits. The Woodbridge/Vaughan/Maple areas have very large Italian populations. Markham is home to a lot of people of Oriental descent. Brampton and Mississauga have very large South East Asian populations. Is it not appropriate to reflect the population of the Toronto area as it is now as opposed to what it was in the 50's? Why stop there...go back before the Europeans came here and call them the Toronto Iroquois(sp?).

If the name is Internationals how is that pandering to any group? It is reflective of what the city is. Are you saying you will not go if the team is called Inter or Internationals? If so, that is tribalism just as when none of my British relatives/friends would go to Metros Croatia games because "it wasn't their team".

Now this is a fun debate!

1. I would not like the choice of International, but it would be more acceptable than Inter. Fans/media are always welcome to invent new names (particularly with soccer clubs) and they may surprise you and be more inventive than Inter. BTW, Toronto's real FC is called the Argonauts, with Argos and The Boatmen being nicknames, and I know that atleast the first Marlies were really Marlboroughs. Leafs/Leaves is a well known error, but it doesn't justify anything. Generally speaking, *most* team names are proper words, it's others who later butcher them. Official names should be held to a higher standard than nicknames.

2. I know that many people in the 905 are not of British extraction, I did not say otherwise. I was pointing out that they still remain the largest single group in the 905, which is true. We don't have to go back to the 1950's. So, if a Euro-based name was to be chosen, a British name, which would make sense in the primary language of the area, the MLS, and the media, would be the most useful and least controversial. Obviously, if you want to go with a distinctly Canadian name, then that would be fine, but that is not what we were discussing - this is about the best Euro-name if one is to be chosen.

3. Internationals would still be pandering *IF* it was clear that MLSE was really going after the Inter Milan connection and using the "International city" line as an excuse. If they stayed away from the use of "Inter" and any Inter Milan connection, then the name would be boring, but not pandering. Remember that it is Inter Toronto FC that is being rumoured, and creating the accusations of pandering, not Internationals.

As for me, I will go to the first game regardless of the name. Further attendence would depend on my circumstances and how the team is run. Where the name would affect my participation is in merchandise purchases, as I will not pay good money to look stupid (I can do that on my own). BTW, it is ok to ignore teams like Metros Croatia and Serbian White Eagles because they were deliberately designed to cater to certain groups, and did not even try to be inclusive - so just as they have lived off of ethnic pandering, they deserve to face the negative aspects of pandering. This is not tribalism on the part of Brits, it is about consumers choosing to not support a product/service that does not even try to serve their needs.

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quote:Originally posted by G-Man

Anyone who panders to ethic tribalism is a pathetic excuse of an ownership group. . .

And anyone who dares questions said ownership group is standing up for the game in this country. Which once again is following a well travelled path of failure- simply by not understanding the market.

Corporate Canada doesn't a ratsass about the game in this country. And naming the team Inter-Toronto is simply proof of that. What's next signing Fabien Bartez?

At the risk of destroying any credibity I may have, I am forced to agree with G-Man on this.

Richard, I doubt that the team name alone would dissuade many from attending (except maybe AC Milan, Juve, and Roma supporters - who may not have gone anyways), but a horrible name like Inter Toronto FC can play a role in keeping people away. This is not just about pandering to some/insulting others, rather it reflects a sincere concern about the competence of MLSE.

If it appears that MLSE is incompetent, then the risk of failure in a city that has seen so many soccer teams fail before greatly increases. Those who have been on the rollercoaster before, may be reluntant to invest any of their time, money and heart into a team that appears to be dead from the start. If MLSE screws this up, then they might screw-up alot of other things (colours/logo/marketing/management team/player selection). We already know that Pogey Park won't even have a roof! At the very least, a stupid name could hurt merchandise sales, which increases the chances of the team being a financial failure - and MLSE is not in this for the love of the sport.

I will be attending the team's first game. Further attendence and any merchandise purchases on my part will be dependent upon factors that are still unknown. One can choose to ignore the local team, especially if it is incompetently run, and still be a real soccer fan. Otherwise, one would have to conclude from Lynx attendence that Toronto only has about two thousand real soccer fans.

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For those supporters of all the "other Inters" out there, in less than an hour (1PM) Gol TV will be showing a game featuring the Brazilian Inter. Those at home with Digital TV should be able to catch most of it before the Champions League game.

BTW, without watching the game, or looking on the internet, can anybody name any players from the "Brazilian Inter" squad? I would suggest that most soccer fans could name more members of Inter Milan's regular starting eleven then they could any starters, reserves, or youths from all the other "Inters" combined! That is why I think Inter Toronto FC is pathetic and pandering.

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quote:Originally posted by KAS

Now this is a fun debate!

1. I would not like the choice of International, but it would be more acceptable than Inter. Fans/media are always welcome to invent new names (particularly with soccer clubs) and they may surprise you and be more inventive than Inter. BTW, Toronto's real FC is called the Argonauts, with Argos and The Boatmen being nicknames, and I know that atleast the first Marlies were really Marlboroughs. Leafs/Leaves is a well known error, but it doesn't justify anything. Generally speaking, *most* team names are proper words, it's others who later butcher them. Official names should be held to a higher standard than nicknames.

So lets get them to call it International and let common usage shorten it to Inter...as I said, I think all MLSE is guilty of is cutting out that step. The current Marlies are just that, the Marlies. You sorta lost me on Leafs....because it is "accepted" then the improper name is ok? Then if we just accept "Inter" why would that not be ok?

quote:

2. I know that many people in the 905 are not of British extraction, I did not say otherwise. I was pointing out that they still remain the largest single group in the 905, which is true. We don't have to go back to the 1950's. So, if a Euro-based name was to be chosen, a British name, which would make sense in the primary language of the area, the MLS, and the media, would be the most useful and least controversial. Obviously, if you want to go with a distinctly Canadian name, then that would be fine, but that is not what we were discussing - this is about the best Euro-name if one is to be chosen.

Whether the Brits are still the largest group in the 905...I am not sure....Statscan want $60 for that report section from the census....more than I am willing to spend on this debate. Anectdotally, however, I doubt it is true anymore....and if it is, current trends in immigration/migration/birth rates will render it false in the near future. There was a lot of talk during the recent election about the changing faces of the 905 candidates....more ethnically diverse candidates were seen as an indication of the changing population in the region. In any event, it still shows that International is still a good reflective name for the area. On your "controversial" point, Inter is only "controversial" if people choose to make it so.

quote:

3. Internationals would still be pandering *IF* it was clear that MLSE was really going after the Inter Milan connection and using the "International city" line as an excuse. If they stayed away from the use of "Inter" and any Inter Milan connection, then the name would be boring, but not pandering. Remember that it is Inter Toronto FC that is being rumoured, and creating the accusations of pandering, not Internationals.

What I have heard/read is that the team is likely to be "Inter", the colours are likely red and white and the explanation of the name is that it reflective of the internationally diverse population of Toronto. Is it pandering or simply "short forming" of a legit name?

quote:

As for me, I will go to the first game regardless of the name. Further attendence would depend on my circumstances and how the team is run. Where the name would affect my participation is in merchandise purchases, as I will not pay good money to look stupid (I can do that on my own). BTW, it is ok to ignore teams like Metros Croatia and Serbian White Eagles because they were deliberately designed to cater to certain groups, and did not even try to be inclusive - so just as they have lived off of ethnic pandering, they deserve to face the negative aspects of pandering. This is not tribalism on the part of Brits, it is about consumers choosing to not support a product/service that does not even try to serve their needs.

I will give you that teams in the CNSL or NSL like Serbian White Eagles were meant to cater to a specific group. Even Toronto Croatia in the NSL and CPSL is so. In leagues with multi teams in the Toronto area, I actually do not see anything wrong with this. If the Brampton Stallion renamed itself the Brampton Brits then you could have rivalries based on, and celebrating, the cultural diversity of the area. When you are talking about a league with one team from all of the Toronto area, that is another kettle of fish.

Metros-Croatia of the NASL was something entirely different. The Croatian community of Toronto "saved" NASL soccer in Toronto when the Metros were going to fold. No other business or ethnic group stepped up and saved the team. I am hard pressed to remember any movement to make the team "all Croatian" (like the Lithiuanian revolution Romanov has brought to Hearts) in fact I remember a lot of non-Croatians in starring roles and I remember a Soccer Bowl championship. I also remember substantial amounts of other Brits asking me why I was supporting "their" team with my money instead of going to British-based TD league team games for free.

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quote:Originally posted by KAS

BTW, without watching the game, or looking on the internet, can anybody name any players from the "Brazilian Inter" squad? I would suggest that most soccer fans could name more members of Inter Milan's regular starting eleven then they could any starters, reserves, or youths from all the other "Inters" combined! That is why I think Inter Toronto FC is pathetic and pandering.

For every player on Man City that you can name, then, name one from Bradford City, Norwich City, Bristol City etc etc etc.

It is the same concept.....the whole "there are tons of Uniteds and Cities etc etc etc" argument doesn't hold....there may be multiples but there is generally one team at mind.....one British team at that.

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Toronto Blues, they'd have sexy cheerleaders in tight blue spandex shorts with knee high blue boots and tight girl cut jerseys.

With Inter-Toronto I picture some fat mustached Italian widow in her black mourning outfit- with a straw broom in her hand.

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quote:Originally posted by G-Man

Toronto Blues, they'd have sexy cheerleaders in tight blue spandex shorts with knee high blue boots and tight girl cut jerseys.

With Inter-Toronto I picture some fat mustached Italian widow in her black mourning outfit- with a straw broom in her hand.

Not that it is relevant...but you do know that Milan is one of the premier fashion/modelling centres in the world? Your image of Milanese women is apparantly it bit different than mine!

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quote:Originally posted by TOareaFan

Not that it is relevant...but you do know that Milan is one of the premier fashion/modelling centres in the world? Your image of Milanese women is apparantly it bit different than mine!

more off topic drivel...I wonder what the percentage of models in Milan are actually Italian. Sorta like how many Brits start for Chelsea.

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Guest Jeffery S.
quote:Originally posted by G-Man

Toronto Blues, they'd have sexy cheerleaders in tight blue spandex shorts with knee high blue boots and tight girl cut jerseys.

With Inter-Toronto I picture some fat mustached Italian widow in her black mourning outfit- with a straw broom in her hand.

That is an idiotic post, mostly because it combines pure stupidity with ethnic typing (totally ignorant about Lombardy to boot).

Usually I don't mind your way of posting G-Man, but that one suggests you need to take advantage of spring weather and get outside.

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