Inter Toronto FC - Toronto MLS clubs' new name?

[TOareaFan]

quote:Originally posted by thepatriot

God forbid Journalists stop doing their job....a thought provoking and informed article. If we need another Yes-MAN we know where to find you G-MAN.

I will assume you are fairly new here (36 posts) and did not recognize the tongue-in-cheek quality of G-Man's post....he has been called many things by many people but "Yes man" would be a first!!

[Joe Keeper]

Kelly raises an interesting debate, but MLSE arnt officially going after the Inter moniker soley to mimic Inter Milan im sure. As said, there are meany Inters or Internationals around the world.

[matthew]

You can argue there are many Uniteds (I certainly think Newcastle as fast as I think Manchester, nevermind Leeds and dozens in the lower leagues in England), there are many Reals (Sociodad, Betis and Zaragotha spring to mind beyond Madrid without really thinking about it). There may be many Inters, but I only think of one. Actually I tried to think of any others I could come up with. All I could think of was Inter Regina, a U12 team that didn't lose for more than a season-and-a-half that my friend's kid brother player for. Inter Regina wasn't named after Porto Alegre, Turku or Bratislava either.

Granted Internacional is fairly well known, but they aren't an Inter as it were and while they are top flight mainstays aren't one of the most famous teams in Brazil. And there are surely a few of Internacionals in South America, but not Inters.

Maybe I'm wrong, but isn't Slovan Bratislava the more famous team? I see that Inter Bratislava has two league titles, so maybe they're more famous than I give them credit for. And FC Inter Turku has 'Abo 1990' on their badge, so I'm not sure they're a good club to point at for history of Inters. If anything it looks like they just beat Toronto to the idea 15 years early. Though perhaps there is a rich history of lifting the name.

If MLSE tries to say this is named after 'many Inters around the world' and lists off teams in Slovakia and Finland I can't see it flying. In fact I would think it would do more damage than good as people see right through that one.

What they should say - and what I'm sure they will say - is that Inter is short for international, it reflects this team's position as the proud first international team in the American MLS while also paying homage to the great multicultural, cosmopolitan and international flavour of Toronto and its diverse supporters.

And I'm sure there's some truth to that reasoning, but it begs the question why not the full word in the name.

Or maybe they'll unveil something different, we shall see. But I don't see any way of spinning this into a big positive that will change the tone of reaction they have received so far.

cheers,

matthew

[matthew]

You can argue there are many Uniteds (I certainly think Newcastle as fast as I think Manchester, nevermind Leeds and dozens in the lower leagues in England), there are many Reals (Sociodad, Betis and Zaragotha spring to mind beyond Madrid without really thinking about it). There may be many Inters, but I only think of one. Actually I tried to think of any others I could come up with. All I could think of was Inter Regina, a U12 team that didn't lose for more than a season-and-a-half that my friend's kid brother player for. Inter Regina wasn't named after Porto Alegre, Turku or Bratislava either.

Granted Internacional is fairly well known, but they aren't an Inter as it were and while they are top flight mainstays aren't one of the most famous teams in Brazil. And there are surely a few of Internacionals in South America, but not Inters.

Maybe I'm wrong, but isn't Slovan Bratislava the more famous team? I see that Inter Bratislava has two league titles, so maybe they're more famous than I give them credit for. And FC Inter Turku has 'Abo 1990' on their badge, so I'm not sure they're a good club to point at for history of Inters. If anything it looks like they just beat Toronto to the idea 15 years early. Though perhaps there is a rich history of lifting the name.

If MLSE tries to say this is named after 'many Inters around the world' and lists off teams in Slovakia and Finland I can't see it flying. In fact I would think it would do more damage than good as people see right through that one.

What they should say - and what I'm sure they will say - is that Inter is short for international, it reflects this team's position as the proud first international team in the American MLS while also paying homage to the great multicultural, cosmopolitan and international flavour of Toronto and its diverse supporters.

And I'm sure there's some truth to that reasoning, but it begs the question why not the full word in the name.

Or maybe they'll unveil something different, we shall see. But I don't see any way of spinning this into a big positive that will change the tone of reaction they have received so far.

cheers,

matthew

[DJT]

quote:Originally posted by matthew

If MLSE tries to say this is named after 'many Inters around the world' and lists off teams in Slovakia and Finland I can't see it flying. In fact I would think it would do more damage than good as people see right through that one.

What they should say - and what I'm sure they will say - is that Inter is short for international, it reflects this team's position as the proud first international team in the American MLS while also paying homage to the great multicultural, cosmopolitan and international flavour of Toronto and its diverse supporters.

And I'm sure there's some truth to that reasoning, but it begs the question why not the full word in the name.

Yup, I agree with all this. I've been too lazy to type it out, so thanks for doing so.

[DJT]

quote:Originally posted by matthew

If MLSE tries to say this is named after 'many Inters around the world' and lists off teams in Slovakia and Finland I can't see it flying. In fact I would think it would do more damage than good as people see right through that one.

What they should say - and what I'm sure they will say - is that Inter is short for international, it reflects this team's position as the proud first international team in the American MLS while also paying homage to the great multicultural, cosmopolitan and international flavour of Toronto and its diverse supporters.

And I'm sure there's some truth to that reasoning, but it begs the question why not the full word in the name.

Yup, I agree with all this. I've been too lazy to type it out, so thanks for doing so.

[TOareaFan]

quote:Originally posted by DJT

Yup, I agree with all this. I've been too lazy to type it out, so thanks for doing so.

As I have said before, I like the name....but for those that don't....can you tell me why it matters so much?

I am sure if they had opted for a north american style name there would have been about a 6 page discussion over how dumb those names are and how they (MLSE) clearly don't understand the traditions of the game.

If they had chosen "United" it would have raised the ire of the anti-ManU crowd....and so on and so on. What this discussion has done for me, unfortunately, is to remind of how fickle, tribal and hard to please the soccer populace of the GTA is....I wish we could just move on from the name.

[TOareaFan]

quote:Originally posted by DJT

Yup, I agree with all this. I've been too lazy to type it out, so thanks for doing so.

As I have said before, I like the name....but for those that don't....can you tell me why it matters so much?

I am sure if they had opted for a north american style name there would have been about a 6 page discussion over how dumb those names are and how they (MLSE) clearly don't understand the traditions of the game.

If they had chosen "United" it would have raised the ire of the anti-ManU crowd....and so on and so on. What this discussion has done for me, unfortunately, is to remind of how fickle, tribal and hard to please the soccer populace of the GTA is....I wish we could just move on from the name.

[Ivan]

I am on record for liking the name as well, and again, agree with that said by Matthew and TOareaFan.

[TOareaFan]

quote:Originally posted by Ivan

I am on record for liking the name as well, and again, agree with that said by Matthew and TOareaFan.

Strange that....Matthew seems to think the name is a problem/issue (least, that is what I read in his post) and I think it is/should be a none issue.

[KAS]

quote:Originally posted by TOareaFan

Strange that....Matthew seems to think the name is a problem/issue (least, that is what I read in his post) and I think it is/should be a none issue.

The name is a problem because it is a rip-off and will make it harder for fans to make the team their own. It would be easier to establish a distinct identity if the name was more unique.

It should also be noted that people with a far greater love and knowledge of the sport have tried to bring professional soccer to Toronto and failed. Although things have changed, so failure is not certain, neither is success. MLSE are certainly capable of screwing this up even worse than they have the Leafs and Raptors - teams in sports they actually have knowledge of. So failure is possible.

It should therefore not be a surprise that fans get edgy when it looks like MLSE is screwing up before the first game has even been played. The name/logo/colour package, as well as the choice of management team/coach and selection of players, are crucial to a successful launch. You only get one chance at a first impression, and this team needs a good launch to make it. I think the POSSIBLE choice of Inter Toronto FC causes anger and frustration because it could drive away potential fans and hurt merchandise sales - both vital to success. It also provides ammunition to those who think that MLSE does not understand soccer and cannot run a successful team.

So yes it does matter. A name should stand the test of time and confer a unique identity. Fans have a right to be concerned because if MLSE screws this up, then what makes you think that they won't screw-up the rest of it?

[Ivan]

quote:Originally posted by TOareaFan

Strange that....Matthew seems to think the name is a problem/issue (least, that is what I read in his post) and I think it is/should be a none issue.

Yeah, re-reading Matthew's post, I guess you are right. It was the last three paragraphs that I concentrated on.

I do not think the name is a rip-off, and do believe they intend it to be short for International, the same that the Inter in Milan is short for Internazionale.

And after all, its just a freakin name. If the team was called the Toronto Tigers, I would live with it. We have a real pro soccer franchise for God's sake!

[zacRWE]

quote:Originally posted by G-Man

I'm upset. One more media type bashing the greatest game on earth. I'm writing to this so called journalist's editor to have her/him fired. MLSE should only be praised. Have dare she! Kevin Pipe should BAN her/him from ever reporting on the sport ever again. At the very least she should be scolded by all scarf wearing unionites.

Thats a male reporter

[matthew]

I am definitely against the name.

I wouldn't like International Toronto FC, but I would accept it more readily than Inter Toronto FC. I know it's a subtle difference, but despite the existence of other Inters mentioned above, to me there really is only one Inter.

I get what I think they're going to argue for, but at the end of the day it sounds like an Inter Milan knockoff, it feels like an Inter Milan knockoff and I think in the mind of the general soccer supporting public in the GTA it is going to play like an Inter Milan knockoff.

I liked a few of the things Cathal Kelly said: in a market in the US where most don't care, you can target the latino crowd specifically. In Toronto there are many crowds and taking sides is lose-lose.

"Also, aping the names of bigger clubs only calls attention to what MLS isn't — a European league."

It's almost like conceeding that you're the second rate league and pointing attention to it. It's like naming something Spritz Up instead of 7Up just to let people know that you're the knockoff version.

I'm not too obsessed over names - I started supporting the Wiz in this league FFS - but a name like the Toronto Tigers is bland and inoffensive (well maybe it links to Hamilton, how about the Toronto Lions/Bears/Eagles) and won't harm the team. I fear that this name harms the team before a ball has been kicked. That's why I care.

It won't affect my support. But I don't think it puts the team in the best position to succeed and much like Raptors it gives the media something to rightly criticize and ridicule.

cheers,

matthew

[Karam]

I am against naming the team Inter Toronto FC. MLSE shouldn't try to please a certain community, they should please all the residents of Toronto.

Some people also say that naming the team United is the same as Inter, but United is an english name and english is an official language,a canadian language. Italian is not an official language.

I'm not a great supporter of MLS coming to Toronto, I'm sick of canadians running to America every time we dont have something great(a soccer league). Naming the team Inter would ruin my support for the team.

[Karam]

quote:Originally posted by zacRWE

Im not sure on Northmen. That is pretty bad too, the Peter North(men) maybe?

Toronto FC is the best there, but City is the way to go!

I definitly agree with you. Toronto City would be the best name. Alot of people agree because it doesn't single out a certain ethnic group. It represents Toronto.

[Michael Crampton]

Question:

Other than emailing Cathal Kelly and saying "thanks for writing what I was thinking" (which I suggest doing if you agree with him) is there a way that people can let MLSE know that they are not encouraged by the Inter Toronto name? Other than one back-channel method I happen to be lucky to have can't think of another way of contacting MLSE - do they have any sort of public customer service email address?

I'll state again that I think Toronto City is really the perfect name to encapsulate the international unity/diversity duality that MLSE wants to appeal to. The pitch is simple: Toronto is "Our City" no matter where you came from and Toronto City is the club that represents the entire city - all Saturday morning alleigences vanish on Saturday night when Toronto is "One City." The "My City" line of subway ads and TV spots is so obvious I can't believe it hasn't been suggested in at least one meeting. Plus, the name has history and is generic enough to not sound like it's ripping off any one team (I'm pretty sure that England alone has something like 15 professional clubs called City and it's probably in the 100's worldwide).

Someone, on BigSoccer made the good point that MLS has gone through two distinct naming periods. The early "youth-oriented", NA style [city] [nickname] flashy names like Wiz, Fusion, Clash, and Burn and the newer "Euro-poseur" (his word) names like REaL Salt Lake, FC Dallas, Houstan 1836, and possibly Inter TO. What stands out though is not that one style is better than the other but that they both work better when they don't feel like they're trying to hard.

Good names frome the early period that have really caught on include DC United, Chicago Fire, SJ Earthquakes, and (I would argue) LA Galaxy. From the current period I think FC Dallas and Chivas USA feel natural while Houstan Dynamo may just end up working out (I must admit I thought it was horrible at first).

To me Toronto City feels more like the latter group than the former - I can't say the same for Inter Toronto. Toronto City retains the [city] [nickname] cadence familiar to NA fans while still screaming SOCCER CLUB to anyone who already follows the game. All in all it's a name that stradles the gap quite admirably. Plus there's no team called City in the league at the current time.

So MLSE: WHY NOT?

Mike.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by Karam

I am against naming the team Inter Toronto FC. MLSE shouldn't try to please a certain community, they should please all the residents of Toronto.

Some people also say that naming the team United is the same as Inter, but United is an english name and english is an official language,a canadian language. Italian is not an official language.

I'm not a great supporter of MLS coming to Toronto, I'm sick of canadians running to America every time we dont have something great(a soccer league). Naming the team Inter would ruin my support for the team.

A few things - "Inter" is not really an Italian word, so the point about Italian not being an official Canadian language is a bit moot.

Second, while I don't really like the Inter Toronto name and would prefer a better one which is less likely to cause un-necessary fuss (though no matter what they choose, MLSE will get complaints), I would be surprised if MLSE seriously thinks they are trying to please a certain community at the expense of others. However, that does beg the question of what the motivation in choosing that name is, if they have chosen it. I still get the feeling that it is the MLS preferred name more than MLSE.

Lastly, in terms of Canadians running to Americans for help every time, last time round in term of soccer they came to us. So they owed us one.

Cue Franky's explanatory post on the last point.

[Ivan]

quote:Originally posted by Karam

Naming the team Inter would ruin my support for the team.

So you would not support the team, just because of its nickname? I'm sorry but that is a ludicrous statement.

[Franky]

yes G-L, on cue; it was 1993, the Americans had but 4 (four) pro teams left (technically three, one was an expansion franchise) and no dignity left (whatsoever). The MNT was fairly competitive, but will fall into a downward spiral. The Americans were banking on the 1994 World Cup for a legacy in the future, yes the MLS but until then, where are players going to play. with only four teams remaining, APSL were going to close shop altogether. ALong comes JOEY SAPUTO and GETS PERMISSION FROM THE CSA TO ENTER A CANADIAN FRANCHISE INTO THE APSL (GET IT MONTREAL!!!, ISN"T IT IRONIC, DON'T YOU THINK, LOL!!)

APSL now approaches CSL for a merger but are not keen on the idea, except Vancouver's Lenarduzzi, who starts rekindling memories of the old NASL heydays and envisions the possibility of a reborn NASL. Franky Aliaga Sr. owner of the Montreal Supra, feels he should apply for the montreal spot instead of Joey's, but is refused. Joe Parolini and the Blizzard salivate at the idea of a reborn NASL, so they apply too. CSA grants the 86ers and Blizzard permission to enter the APSL, Fontana (Rockets), Cantafio (Fury), Aliaga Sr. (Supra) all denied????? wtf. thus, ending the CSL, as it moves forward and merges with Rocco Lofranco's NSL Ontario and Quebec (bad move) creating the CNSL.

Therefore, American players are allowed a stay of execution until the MLS is finally drawn up and players are hand picked from the existing APSL/A-League whatever it was called at the time. Ohhh btw, the A-League in a desperate attmpt to salvage their product, invite the USISL??? to merge and create an expanded A-League. Thus again, ending Lenarduzzi's dream of resurrecting the old NASL and 86ers face off with the likes of, the Zodiac, Flash, Geckos, Thunder, Jaguars, who else??? uhmm...Riverboat Gamblers (luv that one), Nashville (network) Metros, etc, etc.

Now getting back to the Italian thing. i don't know... but doesn't Inter stand for International meaning in any language you put it, it refers to the same CRAP!!

INTER is SYNONYMOUS to INTER MILAN, there are some obscure teams out there with the name Inter but don't carry the same profile like the aforementioned euro power. Case in point, REAL is world reknown for REAL Madrid, but REAL, however you put it, is espanol in any way you cut it. Thats the difference.

NOW.....being a Juventino, Inter is a B-I-T-T-E-R rival in my neck of the woods, from Italy to internal family matters. Inter cuts a gash into my throat that i find hard to swallow. Now people think MLSE are catering to Italians in general are DEAD, DEAD, DEAD wrong because if you support Roma, AC MILAN (ohhh god!!!), Juventus (like myself). Inter can only mean one thing, INTER MILAN!!! thats it.

huhhh...if that is the name...that it is going to be, i will have no choice, in the matter, but to support it (definitely better than supporting the Hartrell's Lynx). i will, for the good of the sport and the soccer scene here, turn a blind eye and grit my teeth (break out the niteguard thats for sure) and support the Toronto MLS team whole heartedly.

I was all for nicknames; City, United, Blizzard, Union, Black Squirrels but if it is not meant to be, then it is not meant to be. we as fans, will have create the history for this squad and hopefully, steer away (SOMEHOW) from the coat tails of ewww, Inter Milan.

Catering to Italians only, i think not, only a mere segment, thats all, get it right out there.

[Grizzly]

I don't like the name Inter either, too much association with one team so it sounds very derivative. There are a few other Inters in Europe also outside Italy, Inter-Bratislava comes to mind, but none are big clubs like inter-milan. At least names like City, United, Dynamo are a bit more generic and associated with several teams. I don't like cute nicknames but a well chosen nickname can be good and I think Blizzard was a good one as is Whitecaps but I am not fond of the Impact or Lynx names at all. A Euro style name would be fine as long as it was not too derivative.

[TOareaFan]

quote:Originally posted by BHTC Mike

Question:

Other than emailing Cathal Kelly and saying "thanks for writing what I was thinking" (which I suggest doing if you agree with him) is there a way that people can let MLSE know that they are not encouraged by the Inter Toronto name? Other than one back-channel method I happen to be lucky to have can't think of another way of contacting MLSE - do they have any sort of public customer service email address?

I'll state again that I think Toronto City is really the perfect name to encapsulate the international unity/diversity duality that MLSE wants to appeal to. The pitch is simple: Toronto is "Our City" no matter where you came from and Toronto City is the club that represents the entire city - all Saturday morning alleigences vanish on Saturday night when Toronto is "One City." The "My City" line of subway ads and TV spots is so obvious I can't believe it hasn't been suggested in at least one meeting. Plus, the name has history and is generic enough to not sound like it's ripping off any one team (I'm pretty sure that England alone has something like 15 professional clubs called City and it's probably in the 100's worldwide).

Someone, on BigSoccer made the good point that MLS has gone through two distinct naming periods. The early "youth-oriented", NA style [city] [nickname] flashy names like Wiz, Fusion, Clash, and Burn and the newer "Euro-poseur" (his word) names like REaL Salt Lake, FC Dallas, Houstan 1836, and possibly Inter TO. What stands out though is not that one style is better than the other but that they both work better when they don't feel like they're trying to hard.

Good names frome the early period that have really caught on include DC United, Chicago Fire, SJ Earthquakes, and (I would argue) LA Galaxy. From the current period I think FC Dallas and Chivas USA feel natural while Houstan Dynamo may just end up working out (I must admit I thought it was horrible at first).

To me Toronto City feels more like the latter group than the former - I can't say the same for Inter Toronto. Toronto City retains the [city] [nickname] cadence familiar to NA fans while still screaming SOCCER CLUB to anyone who already follows the game. All in all it's a name that stradles the gap quite admirably. Plus there's no team called City in the league at the current time.

So MLSE: WHY NOT?

Mike.

Well, just to play devil's advocate and show you how naming a soccer team really is a difficult thing....I will tell you why I would not support "City"....more than 1/2 of the population of the GTA do not live in the "city" of Toronto...you try that " one city, one team" stuff on us 905ers and we will withdraw our support and refuse to attend!!!!

[Grizzly]

TO that is technically true, but how many 905ers really consider themselves residents of Mississauga or whatever other Toronto suburb. When I meet someone from Mississauga they almost always tell me they are from Toronto. The Leafs/Raptors/Jays names are not 905 inclusive either but that doesn't seem to bother anyone.

[RealGooner]

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

TO that is technically true, but how many 905ers really consider themselves residents of Mississauga or whatever other Toronto suburb. When I meet someone from Mississauga they almost always tell me they are from Toronto. The Leafs/Raptors/Jays names are not 905 inclusive either but that doesn't seem to bother anyone.

Yep, the Mississauga Ice Dogs and the Brampton Battalion have to share their fanbase with the TORONTO Maple leafs. I have seen no campaigns to have Leafs renamed The GTA Maple Leafs

[Michael Crampton]

quote:Originally posted by TOareaFan

Well, just to play devil's advocate and show you how naming a soccer team really is a difficult thing....I will tell you why I would not support "City"....more than 1/2 of the population of the GTA do not live in the "city" of Toronto...you try that " one city, one team" stuff on us 905ers and we will withdraw our support and refuse to attend!!!!

Now I presume you're being slightly facetious in your devil's advocacy but really... I'm from freakin' Burlington (the west end of the GTA) and I'm the one suggesting the name - which all my (admittedly British-centric) Burlington resident soccer friends have been hoping for as well.

Now, notwithstanding that my soccer loyalties lie with Hamilton (RIP Thunder, play-up whoever comes along next) and that I'd prefer an exclusively Canadian league I do want this team to succeed since it'll give me a chance to watch decent calibre soccer close to home. Quite frankly Toronto City sounds a lot better than Toronto Area. At this point though I'd really prefer just about any non-ridiculous name to a total rip-off like Inter. At least Northmen is distinct... and could definately lead to Monty Python's Lumberjack Song being adopted as club anthem.

Mike.