MM2 Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 Montreal Impact sign Simon Gatti and keeper Gerry Argento signs an amateur contract with the team. http://www.impactmontreal.com/newsEN.asp?no_id=483 Bio: http://gorhody.cstv.com/sports/m-soccer/mtt/gatti_simon00.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnie Monster Posted April 14, 2006 Share Posted April 14, 2006 Official: Whitecaps sign Newcastle keeper Tony Caig. Scheduled to arrive a few games into the season after int'l clearance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted April 14, 2006 Share Posted April 14, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Johnnie Monster Official: Whitecaps sign Newcastle keeper Tony Caig. Scheduled to arrive a few games into the season after int'l clearance. That is going to be a big dissapointment to the other keepers, who have proven they can do the job, have the committment to the team, have been training the full pre-season. A stupid move I say, a slap in the face to their own player development, and no guarantee, given adjustments the guy will make, that the results will be any better. Especially given the Caps have a stingy defence and stingy style, what is the point of signing an EPL keeper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnie Monster Posted April 14, 2006 Share Posted April 14, 2006 Stingy defence? Sure, maybe last year... but this year is a BIG unknown. The Caps defence has almost completely been replaced at the back. In fact, I'd say only half of last year's starting 11 will retain their spots with all the experienced newcomers that have been signed. As for disappointing the other keepers - aside from Franks (not coming back this year), who are you talking about? Wicks is horrendously underexperienced. Talented, but not a first string keeper by any stretch of the imagination.... ... and Serge D saw all of 5 mins last year v. Sunderland when we were up 3-nil. He's never seen offical game time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted April 14, 2006 Share Posted April 14, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S. That is going to be a big dissapointment to the other keepers, who have proven they can do the job, have the committment to the team, have been training the full pre-season. A stupid move I say, a slap in the face to their own player development, and no guarantee, given adjustments the guy will make, that the results will be any better. Especially given the Caps have a stingy defence and stingy style, what is the point of signing an EPL keeper? "That is going to be a big dissapointment to the other keepers" Not really, the Whitecaps made a public statement a long time ago that they were in negotiation with Caig and were optimistic he would sign. "what is the point of signing an EPL keeper" Much the same point as Miami FC signing Romario. Besides, apart from Josh Wicks there were no other serious contenders for the job in the wings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Posted April 14, 2006 Share Posted April 14, 2006 So from what you have seen Richard, Djekanovic is not close to supplanting Wicks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted April 14, 2006 Share Posted April 14, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Richard "That is going to be a big dissapointment to the other keepers" Not really, the Whitecaps made a public statement a long time ago that they were in negotiation with Caig and were optimistic he would sign. "what is the point of signing an EPL keeper" Much the same point as Miami FC signing Romario. Besides, apart from Josh Wicks there were no other serious contenders for the job in the wings. So you think that two guys dedicated to the team who are being shunned for no objective reason for an EPL veteran in semi-retirement mode, will not be disappointed? Get real buddy. Lilley should let Wicks and Serge fight it out for the starting spot, as they have been doing all pre-season. Hell, since Wicks started the final two months of the season with Franks injured and performed well (keeping was NOT the reason for the team's playoff failure) and Serge backed him up, then went on to win the Canadian Univeristy Championship with UBC, you would think with Franks gone the keeping would be covered properly. In any case, let the guys have a chance, and if it is really not working you can always look for a better option into the season. As for comparing Caig with Romario, well I am sure the fellow will be very flattered by that Richard. I hope to see that on the Lynx press releases soon, as a way of getting the fans out, will be a major attendance booster for the whole league, your're right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnie Monster Posted April 14, 2006 Share Posted April 14, 2006 There is nothing that drives me up the wall more than the belief that some players are entitled to roster spots and opportunities simply because they have been hanging about for a season or two. The Caps are a professional sports franchise, and they are finally being run like one. Players have to up their game if they want to stay here. Players have to out-perform the internal competition before they see time on the field. It's been clear since Kerfoot & Lenarduzzi hired Lilley that the team has a strong mandate to field the most talented, experienced team possible. The days of fielding VMSL all stars and local college kids are over. The days of giving away valuable roster spots to players "for old time's sake" are over too. Wicks & Serge do not fit the bill as starting keepers. Caig does. He flew out here, trained with the goal coach and earned a roster spot. Good for him. But this is the point - the keeping is NOT covered properly between Wicks & Serge. Not even close. Wicks is notorious for fumbling the ball when pressured. We saw that over and over and OVER again. No he was not repsonsible for the playoff exit by any means. However, the Caps had a decent (but not stellar) finish to the reg season in SPITE of Wicks aka "Butterfingers", not because</u> of him. Wicks needs serious work on ball control. He can't kick either. He is not ready for a starting role. Serge may be talented at the college level, but has ZERO USL experience. Perhaps he can fight it out with Wicks for the second spot, but he is by no means ready to compete on the same level as other USL keepers. Think he's on par with guys like Burpo (years in Seattle, and now up to MLS) and Sutton? Not even close. I also think you're taking Richard's comments about Caig & Romario out of context. Is Caig a name brand draw? No, of course not, and that's not what anyone here is saying. What he is, however, is an extremely experienced keeper with lots of game time in the upper ranks of the Euro leagues. No doubt he's miles ahead of Serge & Wicks in terms of skill development and leadership at the back. Caig rightfully has the job because he's the best</u> available.... and certainly better than Wicks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analyst Posted April 14, 2006 Share Posted April 14, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Johnnie Monster Wicks & Serge do not fit the bill as starting keepers. Caig does. He flew out here, trained with the goal coach and earned a roster spot. Good for him. But this is the point - the keeping is NOT covered properly between Wicks & Serge. Not even close. Wicks is notorious for fumbling the ball when pressured. We saw that over and over and OVER again. No he was not repsonsible for the playoff exit by any means. However, the Caps had a decent (but not stellar) finish to the reg season in SPITE of Wicks aka "Butterfingers", not because</u> of him. Wicks needs serious work on ball control. He can't kick either. He is not ready for a starting role. Serge may be talented at the college level, but has ZERO USL experience. Perhaps he can fight it out with Wicks for the second spot, but he is by no means ready to compete on the same level as other USL keepers. Is Caig a name brand draw? No, of course not, and that's not what anyone here is saying. What he is, however, is an extremely experienced keeper with lots of game time in the upper ranks of the Euro leagues. No doubt he's miles ahead of Serge & Wicks in terms of skill development and leadership at the back. Caig rightfully has the job because he's the best</u> available.... and certainly better than Wicks. Wicks showed tremendous impovement last season and eventually took the starting spot from Franks. Sure Franks got hurt but he didn't start again when he returned from injury. Perhaps Wicks did not show more improvement this winter and spring, so Lilley decided to bring in another keeper. I've never seen Craig play, so I don't know how good he really is. If were really good then he would not have been #3 at Newcastle, and if he were really good then he would not be playing for the amount the Caps can afford to pay. Wicks and Djekanovic will have to earn playing time which is good for the team. The Caps should always be trying to improve at all positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted April 14, 2006 Share Posted April 14, 2006 I agree with Johnnie Monster and think that bringing Caig in is a good move. It seems like the USL is really starting to sign some better quality players this year and I am looking forward to a good season with an improved level of play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted April 14, 2006 Share Posted April 14, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Ivan So from what you have seen Richard, Djekanovic is not close to supplanting Wicks? Serge is an enthusiastic hard worker and a capable college keeper. Josh Wicks shows promise but is still short on experience. Both would probably make adequate second or third string 'keepers for the Caps, both have flashes of brilliance and could graduate to #1 in due course. But I think the Whitecaps need a solid, experienced, consistent keeper who can command the defence and Caig is probably an excellent choice although I have never seen him play. We shall have to wait and see just how good he really is :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted April 14, 2006 Share Posted April 14, 2006 "As for comparing Caig with Romario, well I am sure the fellow will be very flattered by that Richard." I did not in any way compare Caig with Romario, don't put words in my mouth. I suggested there were very likely common elements in the two Clubs motivation for signing each of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted April 14, 2006 Share Posted April 14, 2006 "So you think that two guys dedicated to the team who are being shunned for no objective reason for an EPL veteran in semi-retirement mode, will not be disappointed? " Of course they will but that's the nature of team sports, especially professional sport. Player selection is the coach's prerogative and all kinds of factors come into consideration including off the field issues, many of which those of us on the sidelines or in the bleachers know very little if anything about. In this instance I'm quite sure there are also business considerations that came into the mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted April 15, 2006 Share Posted April 15, 2006 Srdjan has experience in top flight Serbia, which I would argue is higher than the USL. He also played another season, starting every week, at a lower division team, where they came close to promoting (which was the goal they missed). He came back to Vancouver and was signed by the Caps the first season he was free. University is a new experience for him, he only started last September to play for UBC, and they won the national championship, he was voted best keeper in the nation I believe (or in the final tournament). He is way over the level of Canadian university soccer. He has already has some spectacular games in the pre-season, basing this comment on reports posted here. As for Wicks, I know he bobbled a few balls earlier in the season and got a reputation for "butterfingers". But noone can say that he made such mistakes after Franks was injured early August and he was in the nets for the rest of the regular and playoff season. So he has improved. I will make a bet and say that one or the other will take the starting spot from Caig and not lose it during the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnie Monster Posted April 15, 2006 Share Posted April 15, 2006 Wicks didn't make serious mistakes? Yes, he certainly did. As for Caig losing his spot to the other two, that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted April 15, 2006 Share Posted April 15, 2006 Jeffrey, it is good that you are able to so expertly able to evaluate the Caps keepers from way over there in Spain. I agree that there is no better method of evaluating a keeper than by reading a few internet reports of pre-season games against amateur players. Lets not forget that Djekanovic last played in the Serbian 3rd division which I dare say is probably a fair bit below USL level. While Red Star and Partizan Belgrade are certainly quality sides (maybe lower table Bundesliga level teams) I doubt the lower table 1st division Serbian teams are much better than the Whitecaps. As much as I would like the Whitecaps to develop a bit more young Canadian talent, they still have to win for their fans and I would not be comfortable with the Impact going into the season with Wicks and Djekanovic as keeper. A poor or shaky keeper can completely ruin a team's season regardless of how good the rest of the players are. Even if Caig eventually loses the starting spot it will still be a plus to have him there given the knowledge he can teach the young keepers and the depth he will provide at this position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted April 15, 2006 Share Posted April 15, 2006 That's just Jeffrey S. promoting one of his protégé. Maybe there's a reason why Djekanovic went from top flight Serbia to Serbia third division to Whitecaps back up to UBC starting keeper and then to being the Caps third keeper..... It's not a shot at Djekanovic who must be a good keeper, just not as good as some wants him to be. BTW, he was a second All-Canadians selection and named the CIS Championship best GK. Gerry Argento, Montreal third keeper was named on the first All-Canadians team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted April 15, 2006 Share Posted April 15, 2006 quote:Originally posted by loyola That's just Jeffrey S. promoting one of his protégé. Maybe there's a reason why Djekanovic went from top flight Serbia to Serbia third division to Whitecaps back up to UBC starting keeper and then to being the Caps third keeper..... It's not a shot at Djekanovic who must be a good keeper, just not as good as some wants him to be. BTW, he was a second All-Canadians selection and named the CIS Championship best GK. Gerry Argento, Montreal third keeper was named on the first All-Canadians team. Yes, Srdjan is a friend because we were in touch when I was in Vancouver last summer. He is ambitious, talented, and deserves a chance. I also know Wicks personally. If I had a chance to meet Caig I am sure we would hit it off too. If I could understand his accent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted April 15, 2006 Share Posted April 15, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S. Yes, Srdjan is a friend because we were in touch when I was in Vancouver last summer. He is ambitious, talented, and deserves a chance. I also know Wicks personally. If I had a chance to meet Caig I am sure we would hit it off too. If I could understand his accent. Jeffrey, don't you find it somewhat unethical to be making angry posts criticizing the Whitecaps/CSA or whoever else for not playing certain guys who unbeknown to us are friends/acquaintances/e-mail pals of yours? And this from a guy accusing others of being apologists for or having some connection to the CSA but yet he is the one hiding his connections to certain people. It is even worse from the player's perspective. Now that you have admitted to being a friend of Srdjan, what if some Whitecaps personnel read the thread and think that the opinions you express are coming from Srdjan himself? I often have a hard time understanding what the purpose and motivation is behind much of your posting behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analyst Posted April 16, 2006 Share Posted April 16, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Grizzly Jeffrey, don't you find it somewhat unethical to be making angry posts criticizing the Whitecaps/CSA or whoever else for not playing certain guys who unbeknown to us are friends/acquaintances/e-mail pals of yours? And this from a guy accusing others of being apologists for or having some connection to the CSA but yet he is the one hiding his connections to certain people. It is even worse from the player's perspective. Now that you have admitted to being a friend of Srdjan, what if some Whitecaps personnel read the thread and think that the opinions you express are coming from Srdjan himself? I often have a hard time understanding what the purpose and motivation is behind much of your posting behaviour. Its quite simple, Jeffrey thinks Srdjan is a good goalie. He doesn't think the Caps need to bring in a 31 year old 6'0" tall new goalie when they already have Srdjan and Wicks. Wicks played well when he took over from Franks last year. Wicks improved a lot from the start of last year, and he's probably willing to play for very little money. He's very atletic and a bit taller than both Srdjan and Craig. Time will tell if the Caps are making the right move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted April 16, 2006 Share Posted April 16, 2006 Pro soccer is all about selling tickets. I don't think it takes a lot of thought to realise that a former EPL keeper on the roster (even a 31 year old six footer) will attract more attention (read sell a few more tickets) than Josh Wicks or Srdjan will at this stage of their careers no matter how much of a nice guy each of them is (and they are). I understand advance ticket sales for 2006 are well ahead of last year for the Whitecaps so they must be doing something right. They're looking to break the six game sellout record from last season. Roll on the higher capacity new stadium for which commitments are also ahead of expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted April 16, 2006 Share Posted April 16, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Grizzly Jeffrey, don't you find it somewhat unethical to be making angry posts criticizing the Whitecaps/CSA or whoever else for not playing certain guys who unbeknown to us are friends/acquaintances/e-mail pals of yours? And this from a guy accusing others of being apologists for or having some connection to the CSA but yet he is the one hiding his connections to certain people. It is even worse from the player's perspective. Now that you have admitted to being a friend of Srdjan, what if some Whitecaps personnel read the thread and think that the opinions you express are coming from Srdjan himself? I often have a hard time understanding what the purpose and motivation is behind much of your posting behaviour. It is unethical to say that the keepers will be disappointed because of the Whitecaps retirement home policy, one of the most ethically dubious player policies around? I would argue in the same way against hiring Sebrango, against signing other players who are going to be subs instead of relying on your own quality reserve squad players to come in as subs. I think you have it ass-backwards Grizzly. The Whitecaps have a terrible record in bringing youth players into their squad, through the reserves. They fail consistently in this, giving their spots to guys in the twilight stage who just need something to do while studying to get their coach's licences. Watson, Corazzin, Nash, all talented, all taking a spot that should be going to an ambitious player coming up from the system. So what is the point of having that system, of boasting about it all the time as they arrogantly do all the time? The Impact and even the Lynx have greater committment to bringing up youth, it is not just economics, it is a matter of principles. And that includes giving priority to Canadian kids, which I suppose you do not care about either? It is stupid to think they compete better with those pre-geriatric guys, as they could not care less how well they play, about winning a USL championship (pretty meaningless anyways considering the playoffs, the unbalanced schedule). Whoever thinks the Caps have to sign a third string EPL keeper who wants to get his kids into Canada is the way to build a team, or win a championship (which they won't, as the Caps are so defensive the keeper does not matter as much in comparison to teams with an open attacking style) is being foolish. What kind of grand illusions do Caps fans have, winning Division One? What a lame ambition, I find it personally rather childish. We would be much better off being able to say we developed this player, gave him his pro chance, and he went on to greater things elsewhere, than being able to say that a crap team like Richmond knocked us out of the playoffs and we were one of the leagues top four teams once again. As for Richard's argument about selling tickets, it ranks as one of the most laughable ones I have ever heard. The Caps will not sell one more because of this guy, the fans hardly care about the grandads either, just the opposite. I would say the fans were more excited about having a young player like Gjertson shine or seeing a guy like Harmse get into the action. If you take the Caps history in question, our key moments were, in this order, winning an NASL championship, and seeing Beardsley and Grobelaar before they were famous, and bringing Mobilio into the system, and then maybe being the team where the Lenarduzzi brothers played. That the is the Caps ethic, and that is what I am defending, not friendship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted April 16, 2006 Share Posted April 16, 2006 "The Whitecaps have a terrible record in bringing youth players into their squad, through the reserves." If you took the trouble to actually discuss this with folks such as Bob Lennarduzzi you might find that moving players from the development system including the reserve team into the first team player pool is not as straightfoward as you might think. Not every player in the development process strives to be a fulltime professional soccer player. Many also are constrained by the demands of their non-soccer careers, certainly a consideration in a league where not all players earn a salary anywhere near what they might in a different line of work. There are many playing the game in the senior amateur ranks in the Lower Mainland who are more than capable of competing at the USLD1 level but who cannot afford the time away from their regular jobs - jobs/careers that enable them to maintain a family, buy a house etc. andsee them through to retirement at age 65 - which a relatively brief career in the USLD1 will not do, yet. Now, if the Whitecaps could fill a 20,000+ seat stadium for every home game then the whole situation could change for the better and help create a true fulltime and well paid professional environment for all the players but that has yet to happen. Till then they must work with what they have within the financial constraints of the organisation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted April 16, 2006 Share Posted April 16, 2006 Since you did not answer my question I will post it again: Jeffrey, don't you find it somewhat unethical to be making angry posts criticizing the Whitecaps/CSA or whoever else for not playing certain guys who unbeknown to us are friends/acquaintances/e-mail pals of yours? This holds regardless whether I agree or disagree with you or whether you are right or not. It is doubly true for someone who regularly accuses other posters of having hidden ties. Ethics requires you to post your relationship to the player at the start of the thread and in his interests also to disclaim that you are speaking for him. Concerning your other points: Caig is not a retirement age keeper, he is in fact 31 years old, the age that many people consider the prime age for a keeper. A third string keeper for an EPL is probably a pretty good level player for the USL and he has also started at levels higher than USL, most notably the Scottish Premiership with Hibernian. In addition he won the job on a tryout not from his pedigree. The Caps sent several European tryouts who did not live up to their club history back so Caig must have impressed. I agree that the Caps have been less than impressive in developing young Canadian talent. However, keeper is much different than other positions. If you take a chance on a young guy at another position you still have enough other players to replace him if he disappoints and a couple of failed prospects is not going to ruin your year. A keeper who is not ready to start can completely ruin the year for the club especially if his backup is also a keeper not ready to start. Starting a keeper to soon can also destroy his confidence and ruin his career as well. I will admit to not having seen any of these keepers play. On the other hand I don't have the impression that you have seen them play enough either to make such judgements. Those on this board who have seen the two young keepers play do not seem to share your opinion that they are ready to start. If they threw Olivieri into the mix I might agree that between the three prospects they could find a decent starter since Olivieri has shown he can play well at this level. However, the Caps also have a responsibility to their fans to not be a team like the Lynx or else they will not have any fans and I think they were right in ensuring they have a solid starter for this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S. What kind of grand illusions do Caps fans have, winning Division One? What a lame ambition, I find it personally rather childish. We would be much better off being able to say we developed this player, gave him his pro chance, and he went on to greater things elsewhere Perhaps the Whitecaps front office should use this in their advertising campaigns. "Buy a ticket to see us develop players for other teams, down the road." Kinda sounds like the Lynx' winning strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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