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Bates

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I just wanted to add a little to the Hargeaves bashing. Can you imagine if a guy like Gretzky was born in England. Do you think he would opt to play hockey for England or Canada???

Now put yourself in Owen's position. You could play soccer for Canada and maybe star in a Gold Cup or you could say yes to England and play in the World Cup. Sounds like a no brainer to me. Here I come England.

Lastly for those who write for his love of Canada and his hatred for our program, I would bet greatly that you do not actually know him or his family. These are some of the nicest and proudest Canadians that you will ever meet. His decision probably had little to do with being dropped from some youth team and everthing to do with the great opportunity that was presented to Owen.

As you blast my reality please also consider why you would then support the Canadian National players who play in Europe rather than make the Pro teams in Vancouver, Toronto, and Montreal their teams of choice. Should these players not show loyalty to the cities where they are from. I would guess that you will answer that they can make a better living over in Europe, I answer that Owen's salary would certainly be a little higher as an Enland National team member vs a Canadian National team member.

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Guest speedmonk42

Right well you just answered your own question.

People call him "Whoregraves" because of the money.

How much is enough could be asked.

It is the impact he might have had on soccer in Canada that bothers people. He would not be playing ANYWHERE if it were not for the millions of volunteer hours put in here by everyone in the soccer community. Pro soccer go for it, but they way you give back to the community that gave you that opportunity is to play for the national team.

Your argument for the city thing is stupid becuase the National team is the overall expression of the ENTIRE countries soccer programs. The top levels of soccer cannot exist without the bottom.

Why not just open it all up and let the richest countries buy their national teams? You can't have it both ways.

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I happen to know a lot of the community people that gave their time to Owen and you will not find many of those that think that he owes them or Canada anything. They are very proud that one of their own made in to the top of the sport.

You speak of Countries buying other Countries players when it goes against but I remember this forum singing the praises of former National Players who had never been to Canada. When our National team shows a little respect to the grass level of soccer in this Countries and doesn't import players from other Countries they can then demand such respect in return.

I would also guess that if 90% of the posters on this forum were given the same choice as Owen they would also be members of England's National team!!!

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quote:Originally posted by Bates

As you blast my reality please also consider why you would then support the Canadian National players who play in Europe rather than make the Pro teams in Vancouver, Toronto, and Montreal their teams of choice. Should these players not show loyalty to the cities where they are from.

This may be the stupidest argument in support of Hargreaves as I have ever read on the board, and I've read plenty over the years.

Using this logic, most of the world's national teams should be frowned upon by their own supporters, because their players play in other leagues around the world. Perhaps Ronaldinho should be left off the Brazilian national team because he plays in Spain. How about England's beloved Beckham? He plies his trade in Madrid.

The difference between these players and Hargreaves is that when the time comes, they still play for the country that they love, not the country of best convenience.

How is it so hard to differentiate between club (employment) and country (pride)?

quote:I would guess that you will answer that they can make a better living over in Europe, I answer that Owen's salary would certainly be a little higher as an Enland National team member vs a Canadian National team member

Your answer hold no water, as he does not get paid by England's national team. He gets paid by Bayern Munich.

Do you think the board members at FC Hollywood said "Owen, we're so proud that you are playing for England. Here's a raise!"?

If so, I've got some beachfront property in Nunavut to sell to you.

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quote:Originally posted by Bates

I just wanted to add a little to the Hargeaves bashing. Can you imagine if a guy like Gretzky was born in England. Do you think he would opt to play hockey for England or Canada???

Now put yourself in Owen's position. You could play soccer for Canada and maybe star in a Gold Cup or you could say yes to England and play in the World Cup. Sounds like a no brainer to me. Here I come England.

Lastly for those who write for his love of Canada and his hatred for our program, I would bet greatly that you do not actually know him or his family. These are some of the nicest and proudest Canadians that you will ever meet. His decision probably had little to do with being dropped from some youth team and everthing to do with the great opportunity that was presented to Owen.

As you blast my reality please also consider why you would then support the Canadian National players who play in Europe rather than make the Pro teams in Vancouver, Toronto, and Montreal their teams of choice. Should these players not show loyalty to the cities where they are from. I would guess that you will answer that they can make a better living over in Europe, I answer that Owen's salary would certainly be a little higher as an Enland National team member vs a Canadian National team member.

Is Hargreaves actually going to be at Germany 2006? I seem to doubt it. So he's chosen to be a fringe player on a squad for England.

But we've been over this too much... I don't think we need to get into it again.

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quote:Originally posted by Bates

I just wanted to add a little to the Hargeaves bashing. Can you imagine if a guy like Gretzky was born in England. Do you think he would opt to play hockey for England or Canada???

Now put yourself in Owen's position. You could play soccer for Canada and maybe star in a Gold Cup or you could say yes to England and play in the World Cup. Sounds like a no brainer to me. Here I come England.

Lastly for those who write for his love of Canada and his hatred for our program, I would bet greatly that you do not actually know him or his family. These are some of the nicest and proudest Canadians that you will ever meet. His decision probably had little to do with being dropped from some youth team and everthing to do with the great opportunity that was presented to Owen.

As you blast my reality please also consider why you would then support the Canadian National players who play in Europe rather than make the Pro teams in Vancouver, Toronto, and Montreal their teams of choice. Should these players not show loyalty to the cities where they are from. I would guess that you will answer that they can make a better living over in Europe, I answer that Owen's salary would certainly be a little higher as an Enland National team member vs a Canadian National team member.

There is a huge difference between where someone works and who one represents internationally.

If you consider the two equal you are, in fact saying, my national allegiance can be bought and sold. To continue your Gretzky analogy...if the best hockey in the world were played in England, I would suspect he would play there professionally....having observed him though, I would imagine he would still pull on the Maple Leaf when it comes to representing a country.

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I love how Canadians of all people, the people who Hargreaves burned, keep popping up to defend him. Ever ask English fans what they think of Hargreaves and if he should be on the team? He's a joke amongst pundits and he's not going to make the 2006 squad, because he's not good enough in their player pool. In Canada he would have been the pin up of Canadian Soccer with the chance to turn a program with potential around, and at the end of his national career say "I contributed." This guy made a big mistake.

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Fire away.

Calgary's Owen Hargreaves says watch out for England at World Cup

posted March 21 @ 19:29, EST

(CP) - Sidelined for two months by groin surgery, Owen Hargreaves is back playing for Bayern Munich and eyeing the World Cup.

You can probably bet on him being there. England coach Sven-Goran Eriksson is a longtime admirer of the Calgary-born midfielder and has capped him 29 times already. "It's great timing to come back," Hargreaves said Tuesday from Germany.

And timing is everything, as Canadian soccer found out in losing arguably its most successful soccer export to England.

Hargreaves, 25, says growing up, he never dreamed of playing for Bayern Munich or England.

"I would have never expected to be where I am now," he said.

But he worked his way up the soccer ladder until he was in the Bayern first team and England came calling.

Born in Calgary, Hargreaves moved to Germany in 1997 as a 16-year-old to join Bayern's youth system.

In a May 2004 interview with Britain's Guardian newspaper, he recalled the early days of living in the club's youth hostel with a poster of David Beckham on his wall.

"I couldn't speak a word of German and I ate nothing but schnitzel for the first six months," he said at the time. "Life was pretty hard and lonely but I had Beckham on my wall."

Now Hargreaves plays alongside the England captain, and is a veteran of the 2002 World Cup and Euro 2004. He has won the Champions League, the World Club title, the German league championship (three times), the German Cup (twice) and the German league Cup.

Hargreaves was pursued by three countries for his international allegiance: Canada, because he was born there; Wales, where his mother was born; and England, where his father was born.

It can be argued Canadian soccer dropped the ball on Hargreaves, who has fond memories of growing up in Calgary and making the jump from neighbourhood side to city selects to provincial team in Alberta.

"Normally the next logical step is the national team, but I never did that as a kid growing up," he recalled. "So I think that door was left open."

That's probably because Hargreaves was cut by the Canadian under-17 team in 1996.

Youth coach Tony Taylor later explained Hargreaves was younger and smaller than the other players available to him. Plus Taylor was facing a regional qualifying tournament for the world under-17 championship.

"Owen was really heartbroken, but I explained to his dad it was obvious the boy was a good player and obviously he would be good enough to play for Canada, but at that particular time we were going off to qualify in CONCACAF so we really had to go and get results," Taylor told CP in a 2001 interview.

Taylor's shoestring budget also played a key part in the Hargreaves story. Fail to qualify and money for the program would dry up.

Ten years later, Hargreaves still remembers being cut.

"Up until that time, at that age, I had never not made a team," he said.

Disappointment turned into motivation.

"It really spurned me on to show that I could belong and I could be a successful soccer player."

But he denies being cut would turn out to be a deal-breaker for Canada.

"Not at all, I would never think like that," he said.

Given a chance in Germany, Hargreaves applied his talents and one thing led to another. He gradually rose through the Bayern ranks: youth, under-18, reserves and then the first team.

When England knocked on the door, it seemed "a natural progression." First the under-21 team (he debuted against Georgia on Aug. 31, 2000) and then the senior side (against the Netherlands on Aug, 15, 2001).

In between, Hargreaves turned heads for Bayern in both the semifinals and final of the Champions League.

Asked to play for England, it was impossible to turn down.

"Growing up in Calgary, I never expected to see those opportunities and getting to play with some of the best soccer players in the world was, in my opinion, a great compliment to me and my family," he said. "That's why the decision made itself."

Who can blame him? Canada plays a bit part in world soccer. England is a marquee attraction.

While the England midfield is packed with talent with Beckham, Steven Gerrard, Frank Lampard and Joe Cole, Hargreaves is a no-nonsense, high-energy performer who can play a variety of positions ranging from across the midfield to fullback.

Plus his favourite position is holding midfielder, shielding the backline. It's a role Eriksson has struggled to fill in recent years when he deemed it necessary. Nicky Butt, Ledley King and Michael Carrick have all been tried there.

Hargreaves will miss Eriksson, who is leaving England after the World Cup.

"I can only speak in the highest regard of him. He's been great for me and he's really taught me a lot about the game as well. .#65533;.#65533;. in my opinion, he's one of the best managers in the world."

And he warns the world should look out for England this summer.

"We've had great teams but I think this is, in my opinion, definitely the best group of players we've ever had together since I've been involved.

"Obviously with the players we have, the individuals, if we can keep everybody healthy and get off to a good start, especially with the support that we have from our fans, we could be a very difficult team to play against and in my opinion, definitely, one of the favourites to have a great summer."

With his contract set to expire at the end of this season, there had been talk of Hargreaves moving to a top team in England. Instead he signed a four-year contract extension with Bayern.

He says he made the decision because it felt right.

Knowing this was a crucial year, with the World Cup and his season coming to a close, he came to camp ready.

"Physically I was in fantastic shape, the best in a long time. And I felt great. I was really enjoying myself, and I was very comfortable.

"I think when you feel like that, when everything kind of fits, then there's no real reason to leave."

The groin injury subsequently disrupted his season but surgery repaired the problem.

Hargreaves is good to go.

"It was great," he said of returning to the starting lineup Sunday in a 3-0 win over Schalke 04. "I was getting so used to playing with pain and really kind of being very limited in the things I could do. I kept going to see specialists and they kept telling me 'it wasn't this and it wasn't that.'

"I kind of wasn't getting the answers so I just kept playing on. But I knew something was not right because I was limited in the things I could do on the pitch.

"So Sunday was a great feeling just to be able to go out there, just play and enjoy it and let it come to you as it normally would."

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Anyone catch the interview with Hargreaves on ISR this morning?

He had a couple interesting things to say. One was that he keeps in touch with Stalteri at Spurs and is happy he is doing well. He checks on his progress with his England teammates, who all have good things to say about Paul. Nice to hear.

Did not offer much on the Jason Bent situation when asked, but did say clubs understand that injuries are a part of the game when playing at this level.

Peter Irvine did the interview. His partner (I forget his name) asked how Hargreaves seemed in the interview because he does not have a good rep. Irvine said he was fine and added that his rep comes from his controversial choice of which nation to play for. Irvine then added that a player should play for the best country he is capable of playing for, or something along those lines. I will not comment on that comment as I have learned to keep my mouth shut about these matters.

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I just will never understand how Whoregreaves can justify playing for England (I know he has roots) without any training, club football experiance or in my knowledge living in the country.

and Sven to admire... Sven admires a lot.. especially secretaries!

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  • 2 weeks later...
quote:Originally posted by Daniel

What the hell, has *anyone* ever seen a Whore article from Canada that paints him in a negative light?

That whole cut as a kid bull still gets on me. Suck it up.

Right on, brother. Hockey fans (rightly) heaped scorn on Brett Hull for years because he opted to play for the U.S. after the Canadian national team cut him when he was younger.

Whoregreaves gets a free pass in Calgary because he's from here and because his team is Canadian fans' surrogate of choice, England. If he was a Portuguese-Canadian kid from Toronto, the Whoregreaves defenders in Calgary would be lining up to condemn him.

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SB: "There certainly weren't any role models for you to follow - other Canadians who had played in top level European soccer."

OH: "I didn't have anyone to follow. I followed my own instincts every step of the way. Playing for my neighbourhood team, then the select team in Calgary, then for Alberta, I just wanted to prove to myself and to everybody that I was a good soccer player."

SB: "How tough was it for you to make the choice of where you would play internationally?"

OH: "At first I didn't even think about it. My whole focus was on Bayern Munich. Once I made the pro team everything started to take off. I got a call from the national teams from England, Wales and Canada. But the Canadian national team games sometimes clash with the European league schedule and I knew I couldn't afford to be away from the club. When England called, I was shocked and I was honoured. So was my family. The decision made itself."

SB: "Why is that?"

OH: " England is one of the best soccer nations in the world. To have the opportunity to play with that calibre of players would just make me better.

(what a selfish little prick)

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SB: "There certainly weren't any role models for you to follow - other Canadians who had played in top level European soccer."

Wouldn't Radz had been playing for Anderlecht and already appeared in the Champions league by the time Owen was 16 or am I mistaken?

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Harper snubs Ghana

READING, England (AP) -- James Harper has turned down the chance to play for Ghana at the World Cup.

Harper, a midfielder who plays for English Premier League-bound Reading, qualifies to play for Ghana because his mother was born there. She moved to England when she was three and 25-year-old Harper was born in Chelmsford, east of London.

"I've never even been to Ghana," Harper told the Reading Evening Post newspaper on Thursday. "I can't speak any of the 32 languages they've got. I don't know the colour of their flag and it's not my country.

"I wouldn't feel right putting on the shirt. I think you should play for the country you are from. If I was born there and then came over to England, then fair enough. But I didn't and I am English."

You are a dying breed, Mr. Harper. Take note Owen.

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"Bayern Munich midfielder Owen Hargreaves, a man who gives the impression that he would survive the fall-out from a nuclear holocaust, makes the squad, despite a poor season in Germany."

http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,,1770180,00.html

"Owen Hargreaves appears again, despite having never contributed anything more to the England midfield than the requisite numbers."

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/news/archives/2006/05/08/sven_strikes_speculative_parting_shot.html#more

"All Hargreaves has proved in years of opportunity is that he's not good enough to fill one position for England. He's an average utility player who shouldn't have a place in any squad hoping to lift the World Cup."

http://www.sportinglife.com/fanzine/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=soccer/06/05/08/manual_152040.html

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