Yallop's Read on Being Cap-Tied (Fernandes, etc.)

[Ian Kennett]

I asked Frank Yallop about the cap-tied rule and friendlies. He, kindly, responded and said, "If the player plays in a friendly then he is able to change countries." I used as examples, Fernandes, and Ugo Ihemelu. While Yallop did not specifically mention these players by name, it does sound that until a player plays an official, FIFA competetive match such as a WCQ or a Gold Cup game, he can switch countries. So, if Fernandes plays in the friendly v Italy, he is not cap-tied. The plot thickens.

While we can speculate about players and coaching decisions, and I certainly do from time to time, it seems that Fernandes is not yet gone for good, nor is Ihemelu, and the players' intentions are what count at the present time. Whether they play for us remains to be seen (Ihemelu has about no chance to make the US World Cup team this time).

I stand relieved, so to speak, and let's see what happens next.

Isn't it ironic that the more interest there is in soccer in Canada, the more flack those in authority take. I wonder if a coach would prefer to be comforatable and ignored or openly recognized but subject to scrutiny - the cost of passion!

Cheers!

Good luck to the boys in Austria!!

[youllneverwalkalone]

Wow. Just because he wears the gaffer's jacket doesn't mean he's read the FIFA regulations. Similarly, just because Frank talks funny doesn't mean he reads his Shakespeare. If he did he might see the dramatic irony unfolding here: we all know DF is lost and Frank doesn't have a clue. great.

[youllneverwalkalone]

Wow. Just because he wears the gaffer's jacket doesn't mean he's read the FIFA regulations. Similarly, just because Frank talks funny doesn't mean he reads his Shakespeare. If he did he might see the dramatic irony unfolding here: we all know DF is lost and Frank doesn't have a clue. great.

[Massive Attack]

Artist rendition of Frank Yallop after he finished his conversation with Ian Kennett.

[Massive Attack]

quote:Originally posted by Ian Kennett

Isn't it ironic that the more interest there is in soccer in Canada, the more flack those in authority take. I wonder if a coach would prefer to be comforatable and ignored or openly recognized but subject to scrutiny - the cost of passion!

I can only dream of the day that the CSA and Yallop would actually be held accountable for the 20 years of sucking.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by Ian Kennett

I asked Frank Yallop about the cap-tied rule and friendlies.

Just out of curiosity, when was this? Before or after the recent Thunder Dan news broke out?

[Ian Kennett]

Gian-Luca,

This information from Frank Yallop came to me today, the 24th, from an email sent yesterday, the 23rd.

Cheers!

[Gian-Luca]

Thanks Ian. So I am assuming then he was aware of what was happening with Fernandes when he responded.

[Guest Dave]

I may be reading this wrong, but Yallop may be correct.

According to the FIFA statutes:

Article 15(2) "As a general rule, any player who has already represented one association (either in full or in part) in an official competition of any category may not play an international match with another association team."

So the whole thing hinges on the definition of "official competition". FIFA statutes are silent on this.

However, according to the England Football Online website

http://www.englandfootballonline.com/TeamBack/Eligibiliy.html

"the custom has been to regard "official competition" as excluding friendly matches even though all games between the senior teams of two countries are regarded as official matches and certainly constitute competition."

This to me implies that nothing changes if Dani plays in a friendly. He is still eligible to play for either Canada or Portugal. I'll leave it to sharp legal minds to determine if this is correct.

Two questions:

1. Ian, when you exchanged emails with Yallop, did you get the impression that since FY still considers Dani as eligible for Canada, he will be calling him in the future... or has he written Dani off?

2. Jeffrey, do you think that if he gets a call from Yallop later this year, Dani is likely to respond positively?

Keep the faith!

[Ian Kennett]

DAVE,

I received an email from Frank. He did not offer any opinion about Fernandes, and I did not ask him that specific thing.

I would most certainly assume that Frank is completely aware of Dani and that he/they are acting on it in whatever manner.

Cheers!

[youllneverwalkalone]

This was posted by Beachesl in a thread about Will Johnson. The debate in that thread, which was also discussed re: Dylan Hughes, is whether a player can switch nations after appearing in an "offical" match. (The verdict being, he must be under 21 -so no luck with DF). Anyway, here's the definition of an official competition:

Article 3 of the Regulations Governing

the Application of the Statutes

"1 International football matches recognised by FIFA are those between

two Members of FIFA and for which each Member fields a representative

team.

2 An international “A” match is a match arranged between two Members

of FIFA and for which both Members field their first representative

team.

3 The terms used to define a match are those that give an appropriate

political and geographical description of the countries or territories

of the Members whose teams are involved in the match and

over which countries or territories the Members have sole control

and jurisdiction.

4 If a Member allows one of its Leagues to choose a team that bears

the name of its country, the match shall be considered an international match as described in par. 1 of this article."

I don't think this Portugal/Italy clash is necessarily an official "A" match. I just posted this to illustrate that a friendly is, and that Yallop is incorrect.

[Guest Dave]

I read that section myself. In fact, the section you quoted is not a definition of "official competition", and it doesn't imply that an "International A Match" is one and the same as an "official competition".

I tend to trust what is posted at the England Football Online site. They are discussing this very issue, and say that "the custom has been to regard "official competition" as excluding friendly matches even though all games between the senior teams of two countries are regarded as official matches and certainly constitute competition."

Hence it seems that an "A" friendly is an "official match" but not an "official competition."

I'm not trying to be argumentative, and I am often critical of FY. In this case I think the facts support what FY is saying however.

[Cheeta]

Where's Beachesl when you need him anyway?

Yeah, I was of the opinion that you needed to be capped in some sort of tourny to become "official" cap tied. Of course that doesn't mean I've a clue, it's just my understanding.

But isn't this sort of academic? The second Thunder Dan pulls on a foreighn shirt he's as much as admitting he's written Canada off. The legal details of it all really are secondary at this point no?

[DJT]

quote:Originally posted by Cheeta

I was of the opinion that you needed to be capped in some sort of tourny to become "official" cap tied.

The thing to remember is that the rules recently changed. Before the changes it was undoubtedly the case that players could not be cap-tied in a friendly. However, following the changes there is renewed debate. I haven't examined the rules in detail myself, but beachesl has done so and has said more than once that players can now be cap-tied in friendlies. Of course, this Fernandes situation is further complicated by the fact that it is a youth team friendly.

[An Observer]

There is a difference between "official competition" and "official match". A friendly is not part of an "official competition". For example, Dylan Hughes played friendlies for both Canada and Wales at youth level and is still eligible to play for either (although he is probably more likely to play for Greenland than either Canada or Wales at this stage)

[An Observer]

Here is the applicable rule. Art. 15 Regulation Governing the Application of the Statues as camed into force on 1 December 2005. Subparagraph 2 is the important bit and it refers to "official competition" which has generally only meant World Cup Qualifying, or Association Qualifing and those respective tournanments at both senior and youth level. It also refers to "international match" which means Art 3. defines "international match" and not "official competition".

1 Any person holding the nationality of a country is eligible to play for

the representative teams of the Association of his country. The

Executive Committee shall decide on the conditions of eligibility

for any Player who assumes a new nationality and for whom par. 3

of this article does not apply, or for any Player who would, in prin-ciple,

be eligible to play for the teams of more than one Association

due to his nationality.

2 As a general rule, any Player who has already represented one Asso-ciation

(either in full or in part) in an official competition of any cat-egory

may not play an international match with another Association

team.

3 If a Player has more than one nationality, or if a Player acquires a new

nationality, or if the Player is eligible to play for several Association

teams due to his nationality, the following exceptions apply:

(a) Up to his 21st birthday, a player may only once request chang-ing

the Association for which he is eligible to play internation-al

matches.

A Player may exercise this right to change Associations

only if he has not played at “A" international level for his

current Association and if at the time of his first full or

partial appearance in an international match in an official com-petition

of any other category, he already had such nationali-ties.

Changing Associations is not permitted during the prelim-inary

competition of a FIFA competition, continental champi-onship

or Olympic Tournaments if a player has already been

fielded in a match of one of these competitions.

( Any Player who has already acquired eligibility to play for one

Association but has another nationality imposed upon him by

a government authority, is also entitled to change associations.

This provision is not subject to any age limits.

4 Any Player who wishes to exercise this right to change Associations

shall submit a written and substantiated request to the FIFA gener-al

secretariat. After submitting the request, the Player is no longer

qualified to play for his current Association’s team. The Players’

Status Committee shall decide on the request. The committee’s

decision may be brought before the Appeal Committee. The Regu-lations

for the Status and Transfer of Players contain more detailed

provisions.

5 Any Players who have already had their 21st birthday at the time of

implementation of these provisions and who fulfil the requirements

in par. 3 (a) are also entitled to submit such a request to change

Associations. This entitlement will expire definitively twelve months

after implementation of this provision.

Article 15 Principle

[youllneverwalkalone]

A Player may exercise this right to change Associations

only if he has not played at “A" international level for his

current Association and if at the time of his first full or

partial appearance in an international match in an official com-petition

of any other category, he already had such nationalities.

Isn't this the crux right here? It's an "and" clause, not an "or" clause.

[An Observer]

That's in relation to a player switching nationalities before he is 21. Therefore, he can switch if he has not played for the senior team and he was eligible for the other nation. However, he would not have been committed to any nation if he had not played an official competition either at youth or senior level (as with Fernandes).

[youllneverwalkalone]

Your interpretation would mean that players over 21 would be have more freedom of movement than players U-21. This makes no sense.

[An Observer]

First of all, I am an international lawyer and I should be able to interpret a simple statue as this. First, its a core concept of legal interpretation. Paragraph 2 is a general rule and paragraph 3 is an exception. Therefore, paragraph 2 is binding, and paragraph 3(a) only applies to someone before his 21st birthday. I think the ambigious part is "has not played at "A" international level for his current association". As this is an exception to the rule, it can only mean "played at "A" international level" in an official competition. Otherwise, as you correctly point out, the exception would be more restrictive than the general rule. As a basic concept of legal interpretation, this cannot be the case.

[youllneverwalkalone]

Well then, if you bill me more than 0.1 for that lame explanation I'll definitely see you in court.

[An Observer]

you are obviously not a lawyer. i'm right so I don't care what you think. come back when you have some evidence to prove me wrong.

[youllneverwalkalone]

That was a joke. I'm an accountant. Which reminds of another joke: What's the difference between accountants and lawyers? .... Accountants know they're boring.

Anyway, I'm not saying you are wrong. I typically agree with most of your views on football and you're actually the first person who has really looked into this issue and we can all thank-you. Although I'm still not understanding the ambiguity I pointed out above.

I realize this is a message board, but when I'm a prick here I usually try not to drag my profession into it. If you want to give a professional opinion, why not do it professionally instead of saying "sod off jack, I'm an international lawyer." There are lots of lawyers who post here and I've yet to hear any of them address this issue. Although, as mentioned, most of them don't flash their credentials around so cheaply.

[Crazy_Yank]

I had no idea that Ihemelu was eligible for Canada. I doubt he'll play for you though as I think he'll be a part of the 2010 campaign for the US.