Massive Attack Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 Jeffrey, this isn't adventurous enough for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massive Attack Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 This is what the ROM is suppose to look like when its complete: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loud Mouth Soup Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 That ROM design blows. Why this damn city can't keep old architecture and promote it's beauty is insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massive Attack Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Loud Mouth Soup That ROM design blows. Why this damn city can't keep old architecture and promote it's beauty is insane. I agree. It looks like a Transformer died on top of the old building. I just wanted to show that we aren't as conservative when it comes to design as people want to believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealGooner Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 Personally, I like both the new ROM addition and the OCAD building. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOareaFan Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 quote:Originally posted by RealGooner Personally, I like both the new ROM addition and the OCAD building. See if we had built the OCAD building over top of Lamport we would have had a covered outdoor stadium....ok, its a joke to perpetuate the myth that my whole world circles around a renovation of Lamport! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franky Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 [:0] what the fn@#%??? one looks like a giant pizza box, while the other does look like a transformer crash landed in peril. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealGooner Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 quote:Originally posted by TOareaFan See if we had built the OCAD building over top of Lamport we would have had a covered outdoor stadium....ok, its a joke to perpetuate the myth that my whole world circles around a renovation of Lamport! And since Franky thinks OCAD looks like a Pizza Box, a Pizza company can take advantage of the marketing opportunity... how does Pizza Pizza Park grab ya? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Man Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 quote:Originally posted by RealGooner And since Franky thinks OCAD looks like a Pizza Box, a Pizza company can take advantage of the marketing opportunity... how does Pizza Pizza Park grab ya? Order a large pizza and get 4 ticket to MLS Toronto. Order two and get 30 tickets.... Corporate give away's will be one way getting the gate up to 5k.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack Jeffrey, this isn't adventurous enough for you? Shouldn't they put fencing around the top so the ball does not fall off the roof? Okay, this is interesting enough, though there is expressive excess with very little to say about function in the design. Still, I think it signals the site without being overly monumental, the colour is friendly enough, and it could be a nice place to work. The former buildings, though, were not strong enough to have to have kept them, so you begin to wonder why they did not redo the whole school. Much better than the ROM, which is purely frightening. You can design simply and with quality, create added value for your city (tourist visits, press interest, urban marketing values) and the money will not be seen to be wasted. It is not a question of losing anything utilitarian, it is a question of being talented, experienced and enjoying the vision and intelligence of the client. An example of a process, for a stadium holding under 10,000, in Barakaldo, suburb of Bilbao. http://www.barakaldo.galeon.com/estadio.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franky Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Order a large pizza and get 4 ticket to MLS Toronto. Order two and get 30 tickets.... Corporate give away's will be one way getting the gate up to 5k.. just like L'Impact, from what i discovered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack This is what the ROM is suppose to look like when its complete: [snip] I think this is one of the ugliest structures I have ever seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack This is what the ROM is suppose to look like when its complete: On purpose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Getting back to the thread topic, here's an article from today's Toronto Star. Looks like a Hotel is being attached to the stadium, so people who come from out of town for games have a place to stay (I bet it won't be cheap though!): Soccer stadium win for MLSE Could reap $100 million over 20 years City now in talks to add hotel to plans Feb. 21, 2006. 06:47 AM RICK WESTHEAD BUSINESS REPORTER The Toronto Maple Leafs' parent company stands to collect up to an estimated $100 million worth of sponsorship revenue over 20 years after obtaining the corporate naming rights to the city's new downtown soccer stadium from a consortium of public-sector partners. Maple Leafs Sports & Entertainment, the juggernaut privately held sports concern with assets that include the cash-rich Maple Leafs, basketball's Raptors and the Air Canada Centre, has agreed to pay $10 million over the next 20 years for the right to sell naming rights and other sponsorships for the facility, already under construction at Exhibition Place. That means MLSE is free to keep any sponsorship revenue it collects. And it seems to be on the verge of collecting a windfall, said several sports industry sources. Meanwhile, Toronto Councillor Joe Pantalone said yesterday plans for the new stadium have expanded to include a hotel. The city is in talks with the owners of the Windsor Arms Hotel about building a hotel at the Exhibition Grounds, he said. The title sponsorship for the 20,000-seat stadium may generate anywhere from $2.5 million to $4 million, said a source familiar with the stadium's financing. That means, if MLSE was able to secure a deal worth $3 million a year, the company could generate $60 million over the next 20 years. The sports company also has the right to keep any revenue collected from associate sponsors. Industry executives suggested those contracts are worth at least $250,000 a year. MLSE should be able to retain at least eight such companies in sectors such as automotive, financial services and telecommunications, and that could generate a further $40 million over the next 20 years. Construction of the new soccer facility began last month and it has already helped the Canadian Soccer Association secure next summer's world Under-20 championships. But to get that tournament, one of the world's biggest sports events, soccer's governing body demanded that the city promised to have a new stadium built beforehand. "What you ended up with was a group of professionals at Maple Leaf Sports negotiating with politicians who were under the gun to get a deal done because the stadium had to be built to get the Under-20 tournament," said a source familiar with the negotiations. Maple Leaf Sports executive vice-president Tom Anselmi said the company's agreement ``isn't a sweetheart deal. "Soccer is an amazing sport in the rest of the world but it's not a slam dunk here," he said. Anselmi said that while MLSE does keep money raised from selling the stadium's title sponsorship, it splits lower-tier agreements, such as those for pouring rights with a brewer, with the city. "This whole deal for us only makes sense if we sell 15,000 seats a game," he said. The $62.5 million stadium will be owned by the city. The federal government will contribute $27 million while the province has made an $8 million pledge. Toronto has agreed to provide land worth $10 million and $9.8 million in cash. MLSE has been responsible for contributing and raising $18 million. Pantalone said he doesn't begrudge MLSE turning a profit on the project. "If it's their risk in putting the money up, and their expertise going out and selling it, it should be their reward," said Pantalone, who was involved in negotiations between the city and other stadium stakeholders. MLSE also stands to generate revenue from the sale of luxury suite tickets — there are plans to build at least 10 private boxes — as well as income from tickets, parking and concessions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john tv Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca Getting back to the thread topic, here's an article from today's Toronto Star. Looks like a Hotel is being attached to the stadium, so people who come from out of town for games have a place to stay (I bet it won't be cheap though!): Soccer stadium win for MLSE Could reap $100 million over 20 years City now in talks to add hotel to plans Feb. 21, 2006. 06:47 AM RICK WESTHEAD BUSINESS REPORTER The Toronto Maple Leafs' parent company stands to collect up to an estimated $100 million worth of sponsorship revenue over 20 years after obtaining the corporate naming rights to the city's new downtown soccer stadium from a consortium of public-sector partners. Maple Leafs Sports & Entertainment, the juggernaut privately held sports concern with assets that include the cash-rich Maple Leafs, basketball's Raptors and the Air Canada Centre, has agreed to pay $10 million over the next 20 years for the right to sell naming rights and other sponsorships for the facility, already under construction at Exhibition Place. That means MLSE is free to keep any sponsorship revenue it collects. And it seems to be on the verge of collecting a windfall, said several sports industry sources. Meanwhile, Toronto Councillor Joe Pantalone said yesterday plans for the new stadium have expanded to include a hotel. The city is in talks with the owners of the Windsor Arms Hotel about building a hotel at the Exhibition Grounds, he said. The title sponsorship for the 20,000-seat stadium may generate anywhere from $2.5 million to $4 million, said a source familiar with the stadium's financing. That means, if MLSE was able to secure a deal worth $3 million a year, the company could generate $60 million over the next 20 years. The sports company also has the right to keep any revenue collected from associate sponsors. Industry executives suggested those contracts are worth at least $250,000 a year. MLSE should be able to retain at least eight such companies in sectors such as automotive, financial services and telecommunications, and that could generate a further $40 million over the next 20 years. Construction of the new soccer facility began last month and it has already helped the Canadian Soccer Association secure next summer's world Under-20 championships. But to get that tournament, one of the world's biggest sports events, soccer's governing body demanded that the city promised to have a new stadium built beforehand. "What you ended up with was a group of professionals at Maple Leaf Sports negotiating with politicians who were under the gun to get a deal done because the stadium had to be built to get the Under-20 tournament," said a source familiar with the negotiations. Maple Leaf Sports executive vice-president Tom Anselmi said the company's agreement ``isn't a sweetheart deal. "Soccer is an amazing sport in the rest of the world but it's not a slam dunk here," he said. Anselmi said that while MLSE does keep money raised from selling the stadium's title sponsorship, it splits lower-tier agreements, such as those for pouring rights with a brewer, with the city. "This whole deal for us only makes sense if we sell 15,000 seats a game," he said. The $62.5 million stadium will be owned by the city. The federal government will contribute $27 million while the province has made an $8 million pledge. Toronto has agreed to provide land worth $10 million and $9.8 million in cash. MLSE has been responsible for contributing and raising $18 million. Pantalone said he doesn't begrudge MLSE turning a profit on the project. "If it's their risk in putting the money up, and their expertise going out and selling it, it should be their reward," said Pantalone, who was involved in negotiations between the city and other stadium stakeholders. MLSE also stands to generate revenue from the sale of luxury suite tickets — there are plans to build at least 10 private boxes — as well as income from tickets, parking and concessions. If you can overlook the field from this hotel,maybe loudmouth can do his thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Man Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca Getting back to the thread topic, here's an article from today's Toronto Star. Looks like a Hotel is being attached to the stadium, so people who come from out of town for games have a place to stay (I bet it won't be cheap though!): Soccer stadium win for MLSE Could reap $100 million over 20 years City now in talks to add hotel to plans Feb. 21, 2006. 06:47 AM RICK WESTHEAD BUSINESS REPORTER The Toronto Maple Leafs' parent company stands to collect up to an estimated $100 million worth of sponsorship revenue over 20 years after obtaining the corporate naming rights to the city's new downtown soccer stadium from a consortium of public-sector partners. Maple Leafs Sports & Entertainment, the juggernaut privately held sports concern with assets that include the cash-rich Maple Leafs, basketball's Raptors and the Air Canada Centre, has agreed to pay $10 million over the next 20 years for the right to sell naming rights and other sponsorships for the facility, already under construction at Exhibition Place. That means MLSE is free to keep any sponsorship revenue it collects. And it seems to be on the verge of collecting a windfall, said several sports industry sources. Meanwhile, Toronto Councillor Joe Pantalone said yesterday plans for the new stadium have expanded to include a hotel. The city is in talks with the owners of the Windsor Arms Hotel about building a hotel at the Exhibition Grounds, he said. The title sponsorship for the 20,000-seat stadium may generate anywhere from $2.5 million to $4 million, said a source familiar with the stadium's financing. That means, if MLSE was able to secure a deal worth $3 million a year, the company could generate $60 million over the next 20 years. The sports company also has the right to keep any revenue collected from associate sponsors. Industry executives suggested those contracts are worth at least $250,000 a year. MLSE should be able to retain at least eight such companies in sectors such as automotive, financial services and telecommunications, and that could generate a further $40 million over the next 20 years. Construction of the new soccer facility began last month and it has already helped the Canadian Soccer Association secure next summer's world Under-20 championships. But to get that tournament, one of the world's biggest sports events, soccer's governing body demanded that the city promised to have a new stadium built beforehand. "What you ended up with was a group of professionals at Maple Leaf Sports negotiating with politicians who were under the gun to get a deal done because the stadium had to be built to get the Under-20 tournament," said a source familiar with the negotiations. Maple Leaf Sports executive vice-president Tom Anselmi said the company's agreement ``isn't a sweetheart deal. "Soccer is an amazing sport in the rest of the world but it's not a slam dunk here," he said. Anselmi said that while MLSE does keep money raised from selling the stadium's title sponsorship, it splits lower-tier agreements, such as those for pouring rights with a brewer, with the city. "This whole deal for us only makes sense if we sell 15,000 seats a game," he said. The $62.5 million stadium will be owned by the city. The federal government will contribute $27 million while the province has made an $8 million pledge. Toronto has agreed to provide land worth $10 million and $9.8 million in cash. MLSE has been responsible for contributing and raising $18 million. Pantalone said he doesn't begrudge MLSE turning a profit on the project. "If it's their risk in putting the money up, and their expertise going out and selling it, it should be their reward," said Pantalone, who was involved in negotiations between the city and other stadium stakeholders. MLSE also stands to generate revenue from the sale of luxury suite tickets — there are plans to build at least 10 private boxes — as well as income from tickets, parking and concessions. WOW. Corporate Canada once again robs the bank and Joe Pantalone plays buttboy corporate whore to the tee. Spend 28 million make 100 million before you even sell a ticket... I just hope that MLSE gets fined heavily if the stadium is late and they have to play the U-20 games at the Skydome. I think the builder of Wembley is being fined close to a hundred thousand pounds a day. Nah...Joe Pantalone will make sure that doesn't happen, he'll even get them a tax break. And if they're building that hotel for the out of town fans for MLS games, it must be a bed and breakfast with at least 4 rooms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Yeah right, and MLSE owners pocket all this cash? Who pays all the operating expenses for the stadium and hotel plus the cost of running the team and who is taking the financial risk in all of this? Anybody who bets on soccer making big bucks in Canada in the short to medium term is taking a substantial risk and deserves a financial reward if the venture succeeds. This is business guys, get with the program. Big returns invariably come with high risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Man Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Richard Yeah right, and MLSE owners pocket all this cash? Who pays all the operating expenses for the stadium and hotel plus the cost of running the team and who is taking the financial risk in all of this? Anybody who bets on soccer making big bucks in Canada in the short to medium term is taking a substantial risk and deserves a financial reward if the venture succeeds. This is business guys, get with the program. Big returns invariably come with high risk. The deal with the city is that any loses on operating the stadium over 250K is pick-up by the city. (250K is 4th line leaf player) The MLS salary cap limits spending ona player to 280,000 per year. The vast majority make around 50K a year. I've read where most teams spend about 2 million a year on salaries. Add 6-10 front office staff and 3-4 coaches, I'm betting operating costs are about 3 million including travel. MLSE will most likely get, as the article states 2.5 to 4 million a year on naming rights to Pogey Park and another 2.5 million a year from associate sponsors. So that's an income of about 5 million a year. I'm not making this up. It's in the story. This of course does not take into consideration: ticket sales, parking, beer and scarves. Or using the stadium for rock shows or as an indoor facility in the winter (bubble). So Richard--MLSE is in reality taking a very very low risk with the potential of wonderful returns. And I'm sure without the government hand-outs they wouldn't have touched MLS with a 40 foot poll. And I'm sure MLS will use this deal in future when threatening to leave markets (as in SJ)or establishing new ones as the benchmark. And after seeing the simple dull concrete design of Pogey Park, I'm sure an Upper Deck could be added at a later date to increase seating to 30K and a certain CFL team could be moved there if MLSE decided to purchase it. Thank you very much CSA for building a CFL park. It's just not that far fetched. This deal has never been about helping Canadian soccer. It's been designed from the get go to help a corporation earn profit. No wonder Saputo is pissed. As for the hotel, MLSE probably has nothing to do with it. It's not in the Hotel Industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 quote:Originally posted by G-Man This deal has never been about helping Canadian soccer. It's been designed from the get go to help a corporation earn profit. Yes, obviously any benefit that Canadian soccer derives out of a new soccer stadium for its national teams, a new club in a superior league with a longer season and being able to host the 2007 WYC will just be unfortunate, incidental side effects as far as the CSA are concerned. Instead the deal should have been brokered so that there was no way that a corporation putting its own cash into city infrastructure could possibly profit from the deal, after all MLSE is about to turn itself into a new & improved Canadian Centre for Philanthropy thanks to the Neo-Commie Ideology they have recently adopted. The stadium will be called LeninStad as a homage to the former Soviet city which shared a similar name. Its all so clear to us now. Thank you for your elucidation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Domi Rulezz Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 quote:Originally posted by G-Man WOW. Corporate Canada once again robs the bank and Joe Pantalone plays buttboy corporate whore to the tee. Spend 28 million make 100 million before you even sell a ticket... I just hope that MLSE gets fined heavily if the stadium is late and they have to play the U-20 games at the Skydome. I think the builder of Wembley is being fined close to a hundred thousand pounds a day. Nah...Joe Pantalone will make sure that doesn't happen, he'll even get them a tax break. And if they're building that hotel for the out of town fans for MLS games, it must be a bed and breakfast with at least 4 rooms. For G-Man: Sorry if it's a little too advanced for you. I tried searching for an 'Economics for Trolls and Toddlers', but Madonna is still in the process of creating the illustrations. For the rest of us: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOareaFan Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Domi Rulezz For G-Man: Sorry if it's a little too advanced for you. I tried searching for an 'Economics for Trolls and Toddlers', but Madonna is still in the process of creating the illustrations. For the rest of us: Making fun of G-Man might be fun but I view this new announcement as "the other shoe dropping" on the original deal. I have stated in many places that it is my opinion that Lamport could be brought up to the necessary standards for FIFA and MLS for less than we are spending on the new building. In fact, I bet we could do it for the total of the government funding. Others have disputed/disagreed but the point was it was never fully studied/costed. Rather, we went ahead with this new stadium and required private money. MLSE made a fairly small contribution and, in return, gained effective control of the business side of a stadium while puting in very little of the cash. The funding shortfall identified was always deemed to be made up from naming rights. Because of the deal with MLSE and the need for that funding shortfall to be filled, the taxpayer is now selling something to MLSE for $10 million that they expect to make $60 million on. If this happens, then they will have recouped their entire investment in the stadium and the franchise by simply re-selling something that the taxpayer owned. If the taxpayer had built or renovated a stadium on their own (ie limited their expenditures to $46 million) they would be in full control of the naming rights and they could have put those in the hands of a marketing/management firm of their choosing and obtained full market value for them. This is a shrewd piece of business for MLSE, for sure, but we should not underestimate how naive and foolish this makes the people in charge of the public purse on this project. As for the hotel.....the board of governers of the ex grounds have been negotiating with several boutique hotel operators (including the Windsor Arms people) for several years. All that has changed is the location of the hotel as, I believe, they originally intended it to be over at the east end of the grounds (near the automotive building). For the average fan, I doubt a Windsor Arms type hotel will have much appeal. While the Windsor is, truly, one of Toronto's best hotel and dining experiences, it is very much a high end experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Man Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca Yes, obviously any benefit that Canadian soccer derives out of a new soccer stadium for its national teams, a new club in a superior league with a longer season and being able to host the 2007 WYC will just be unfortunate, incidental side effects as far as the CSA are concerned. Instead the deal should have been brokered so that there was no way that a corporation putting its own cash into city infrastructure could possibly profit from the deal, after all MLSE is about to turn itself into a new & improved Canadian Centre for Philanthropy thanks to the Neo-Commie Ideology they have recently adopted. The stadium will be called LeninStad as a homage to the former Soviet city which shared a similar name. Its all so clear to us now. Thank you for your elucidation. off the meds again I see. Let's get some things straight. The Skydome with imported grass for the event could have hosted the U-20 World Cup. One MLS team won't produce more National Team players than Montreal and Vancouver currently do. And I think you're phone is ringing. It's probably Kevin Pipe. His ass needs wiping, better run quick G-L.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 quote:Originally posted by G-Man One MLS team won't produce more National Team players than Montreal and Vancouver currently do. The Whitecaps have as many current national team players as the Lynx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10 Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 quote:Originally posted by G-Man The deal with the city is that any loses on operating the stadium over 250K is pick-up by the city. (250K is 4th line leaf player) The MLS salary cap limits spending ona player to 280,000 per year. The vast majority make around 50K a year. I've read where most teams spend about 2 million a year on salaries. Add 6-10 front office staff and 3-4 coaches, I'm betting operating costs are about 3 million including travel. MLSE will most likely get, as the article states 2.5 to 4 million a year on naming rights to Pogey Park and another 2.5 million a year from associate sponsors. So that's an income of about 5 million a year. I'm not making this up. It's in the story. This of course does not take into consideration: ticket sales, parking, beer and scarves. Or using the stadium for rock shows or as an indoor facility in the winter (bubble). G-Man, I second the notion that you take a look at economics for dummies. Or better yet a first year accounting book. The gov agreed to cover losses on stadium operations >250k. True. But you are mixing up and terribly oversimplifying some numbers from stadium and team operations. For one, stadium and team operations are completely seperate i.e. the ACC does not include "Leafs Salaries" in its income statement....... You should really look into things more, or run the risk of losing any legitimacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 quote:Originally posted by G-Man off the meds again I see. Let's get some things straight. The Skydome with imported grass for the event could have hosted the U-20 World Cup. One MLS team won't produce more National Team players than Montreal and Vancouver currently do. And I think you're phone is ringing. It's probably Kevin Pipe. His ass needs wiping, better run quick G-L.. Always great to see such classy posts from you G-Man, it really does help people to take you seriously. Keep it up. BTW nice attempt at sidestepping the issue of whether an MLS team will help improve the pro game in Canada by attempting to turn it into a competition as to who can produce the most national team players, one MLS team or two USL 1st Division teams.....a completely irrelevant point since we have both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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