MattWarnes Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 Hello I'm from the UK, Brampton in England to be precise and I've been trying to find out some information on any professional teams in Brampton, Ontario. I've had a look around and have seen bits and pieces about the Stallions and the Hitmen, but nothing for a website for either of them. Can anyone help - at least to confirm if either of these two teams are still in existence? Thanks Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamiltonfan Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 Brampton has had a team in the CPSL-Canadian Pro Soccer League- for a long time. At first they were called the Hitmen and last year they we're sold and the name was changed to Stallion PFC. They had a site up durning the season. I dont no with this team will be around next year but I'm more then sure they'll will be a team in Brampton ON in 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattWarnes Posted December 31, 2005 Author Share Posted December 31, 2005 Thanks for that, I'll keep looking. Did anyone on here ever see Peter Beardsley play for Vancouver Whitecaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattWarnes Posted December 31, 2005 Author Share Posted December 31, 2005 One of the reasons I'm interested is that I'd like to design a website for a team. At the moment I work for a big bank, but am hoping to go into business in 2007 with my brother who is a web designer. I'm looking for a project to 'practice' on - something I'd do for free, but also something I'd be interested in. So, I thought of two of my major interests, football (ok, soccer) and Canada. It seems like the franchises are fairly unstable and that relatively few teams have a 'permanent' presense. I guess that is due to the small attendances at matches making things financially difficult? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 quote:Originally posted by MattWarnes Thanks for that, I'll keep looking. Did anyone on here ever see Peter Beardsley play for Vancouver Whitecaps? I did, I think Johnny Giles brought him over from Cardiff, and he was there maybe two seasons. Same time that Grobelaar was there. Must have been the years after the NASL triumph, so maybe around 80-81, just going on pure memory. He already had that cute dummy move where he turned sideways and kept running forwards with the ball, his way of solving lack of speed with a very unique dribbling trick. Did Peter go straight to Liverpool from Vancouver, I really don't know the answer to that question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattWarnes Posted December 31, 2005 Author Share Posted December 31, 2005 That is low. My team, Carlisle United, were in the 5th tier of the English leagues last season and got 10,000+ for a few games, with an average of 6,500. Its a shame the league hasn't really caught on - would be nice to see teams competing with MLS sides, the level of interest is surely similar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattWarnes Posted January 1, 2006 Author Share Posted January 1, 2006 Peter Beardsley came over from Carlisle, not Cardiff - I was too young to see him there but always followed his career afterwards, and we nearly appointed him as coach a few years back. So what future does the CPSL have? It may be a low level now, but is it at least improving? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 quote:Originally posted by MattWarnes Peter Beardsley came over from Carlisle, not Cardiff - I was too young to see him there but always followed his career afterwards, and we nearly appointed him as coach a few years back. So what future does the CPSL have? It may be a low level now, but is it at least improving? You are quite right, Carlisle, not Cardiff. Right of you to correct that. So was he from Carlisle or nearby? If I am not mistaken at that time Carlisle was in the old 2nd, but could have been lower. Had Giles coached there? Anyways, all the best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattWarnes Posted January 1, 2006 Author Share Posted January 1, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S. Peter Beardsley came over from Carlisle, not Cardiff - I was too young to see him there but always followed his career afterwards, and we nearly appointed him as coach a few years back. So was he from Carlisle or nearby? If I am not mistaken at that time Carlisle was in the old 2nd, but could have been lower. Had Giles coached there? Anyways, all the best He was from Newcastle, 60 miles away. He went back there later on and became a big hero. Carlisle were in the old 2nd in those days, now back in the old 4th - but near the top and pushing to get back to where they belong. Not sure about Giles, a bit before my era unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattWarnes Posted January 1, 2006 Author Share Posted January 1, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Sigma The CPSL should stay as it is - a quasi semi pro league because for whatever reason the league has been kicking around for years. I really don't see any reason to change it. There were rumours this winter that Rochester, New York was interested in an expansion franchise. I'm just not sure about franchises, over here clubs stay in the same place with the same name at all times, they become a resource for the area and the community - and that draws people in whether they're good or bad - because you feel that the team belongs to you. But, having said that, I admit I know next to nothing about Canadian soccer so I'm in no position to comment really! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOareaFan Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 quote:Originally posted by MattWarnes I'm just not sure about franchises, over here clubs stay in the same place with the same name at all times, they become a resource for the area and the community - and that draws people in whether they're good or bad - because you feel that the team belongs to you. But, having said that, I admit I know next to nothing about Canadian soccer so I'm in no position to comment really! Hey, I just saw this post.... I live in Brampton and have gone to the odd Stallions game. Last year one of the owners and I kept trying to get the 11 year old girls team that I coached to be ball girls and everytime we tried something went wrong (lightening storm one night, flooded pitch the next night, etc etc etc.). Anyway, he is a very nice guy and I am sure would be open to any suggestion you might have. I dug out his business card and the email address on it is bramptonpfc@yahoo.com. Not sure if they are still around, though, as the web page on the card (www.bramptonpfc.com) does not seem to exist anymore. BTW....what is Brampton, England like? It is in Cumbria, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattWarnes Posted January 1, 2006 Author Share Posted January 1, 2006 quote:Originally posted by TOareaFan I dug out his business card and the email address on it is bramptonpfc@yahoo.com. Not sure if they are still around, though, as the web page on the card (www.bramptonpfc.com) does not seem to exist anymore. BTW....what is Brampton, England like? It is in Cumbria, right? Thanks, I've sent an e-mail off and I'll see if I get a reply. Brampton is in Cumbria, it's pretty, quiet, small... Not that much to recommend it I'm afraid! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOareaFan Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 quote:Originally posted by MattWarnes Thanks, I've sent an e-mail off and I'll see if I get a reply. Brampton is in Cumbria, it's pretty, quiet, small... Not that much to recommend it I'm afraid! Our Brampton is not so small anymore....at around 400,000 people it is, I believe, the 12th or 13th largest city in Canada and expected to grow to around 600,000 in the next 10 or so years (taking it easily into the the top 10). Biggest challenge is for it to achieve some sort of identity beyond its original one of a bedroom community providing workers to Toronto......that only works to a certain size of town and then you have to "be something" yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattWarnes Posted January 2, 2006 Author Share Posted January 2, 2006 Easily big enough for a good soccer team then! I was in Toronto last year. I thought about visiting Brampton for the day but the guide books I had didn't list many highlights. I'll be back in the next couple of years so maybe I'll time my visit to include the Stallions - if they're still there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue and White Army Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 I'm hugely opposed to franchises playing "musical cities" as well. One of the reasons I got into football was because the baseball team I supported as a kid (the Vancouver Canadians) moved down south to Sacremento, California. All that time, money, and emotional currency invested over the course of a decade was instantly voided with the stroke of a pen by a Japanese owner. Mind you, the club down in Sacramento went on to attract record minor-league baseball attendance numbers. So was the relocation wise? Perhaps minor-league baseball as a whole is stronger for the move. But I for one haven't watched a game of baseball ever since. Nor will I, even if Vancouver (my home city) were to be awarded a Major League Baseball franchise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 When I was working in Windermere-Bowness I watched a program about Carlisle United and their fight against relegation in 2003-2004(??? I think). I think you're goalkeeper save a penalty and scored a goal in the same game to avoid relegation (but you were relegate after loosing you're last game). Am i right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattWarnes Posted January 2, 2006 Author Share Posted January 2, 2006 Two similar stories, our keeper saved a penalty we won to keep ourselves in with a chance - but then we lost and went down. A couple of years before, in the last minute of the game, our keeper went up for a corner and scored the winner that kept us in the league. I've pasted an account of the story here: - Probably the most dramatic goal ever scored by a goalkeeper was Jimmy Glass's effort for Carlisle United in May 1999 that saved the club from the ignominy of non-league football. With only ten seconds of the game remaining and with the scores level at 1-1, Glass netted from close range after his opposite number in the Plymouth Argyle goal had parried a header from a United corner. His goal secured Cumbria's last professional side's League status and sent Scarborough down instead. To add salt to the Yorkshire club's wounds, Glass was playing his last game for United having arrived on loan from Swindon Town only three weeks before… There must be something in the water up in Carlisle because 17 months later one of their goalkeepers did it again, although in less dramatic circumstances. During a midweek game against Blackpool, goalie Peter Keen launched a routine clearance that ended up bouncing over Jon Kennedy, his opposite number in the Tangerines' goal, and into the back of the net. It made little difference to the eventual outcome as Blackpool were 3-0 up at the time but it went down in history as one of the most bizarre goals ever seen at the seaside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattWarnes Posted January 2, 2006 Author Share Posted January 2, 2006 There's a link here to a video of the Jimmy Glass goal which gives some idea of what it meant to the fans watching. I was there but have a very dim memory of what happened!! http://www.kynson.freeserve.co.uk/RIOA/features/games/tge/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue and White Army Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 The "ignominy" of non-league football? Dropping down to the Conference for a season was the best thing that's happened to United over the past decade. Look at what it's turned them into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattWarnes Posted January 2, 2006 Author Share Posted January 2, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Blue and White Army The "ignominy" of non-league football? Dropping down to the Conference for a season was the best thing that's happened to United over the past decade. Look at what it's turned them into. Well, watching Carlisle play Forest Green (a team few in England have heard of) and Leigh RMI (a team few in the town of Leigh have heard of) felt like like ignomony to me. We we're promoted and are doing well in the league, that is true, but had we stayed up, we would arguably have been promoted again by now. By the way, Blue and White Army - what does that refer to? Got to agree with you on the franchise front - soccer teams should be a local resource - you can't trade fan loyalty.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOareaFan Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 quote:Originally posted by MattWarnes Got to agree with you on the franchise front - soccer teams should be a local resource - you can't trade fan loyalty.... I think everyone would agree with that if the clubs were owned by the local community. I believe, however, that you have to recognize that, today, sports and sports success needs significant capital investment (either in player's or in playing facilities) and when that capital comes from an owner or an ownership group, then those people would/will have a legal right to place their property wherever they choose. I believe that is why Wimbeldon were allowed to move to Milton Keys and retain their league postion (as opposed to starting a new "club" in MK and applying for a position in the league). I bet you the FA was well aware that common and property law would force the courts to acknowledge the owners rights to place the club/team anywhere they choose. So, with increasing personal and/or corporate ownership, clubs in the UK will look more like our franchises. It does not mean you will see a whole slew of team moves, however, as you already have teams/clubs (usually mutltiple teams/clubs) in all of the "markets" that could/would support a team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattWarnes Posted January 3, 2006 Author Share Posted January 3, 2006 quote:Originally posted by TOareaFan So, with increasing personal and/or corporate ownership, clubs in the UK will look more like our franchises. Personal ownership has always been common in the UK, it is corporate ownership which in perhaps on the rise. But, the fastest rising trend is for clubs to be owned by the community, by having shares in a community trusts. In quite a few cases this involves complete ownership, in other cases a % ownership allowing the trust to veto certain decisions of the board. I think this is a direct reaction to the MK Dons situation and is a positive way to protect valuable community assets like it's soccer team. In no way am I suggesting that club owners should not be able to do what they want to with thier own property. I just don't think it is healthy that a team can be uprooted leaving behind fans who have paid into their team for years and invested their time and emotional energy into something important to them, only to have that removed. I don't disupte the right of an owner to do that - I just wish it wouldn't happen! I imagine there is a market for a team to be supported in Milton Keynes, but that potential should be tapped by the foundation of a new club that could work it's way up through the league system to succeed. Also, AFC Wimbledon attract crowds often over 1000, so there is no reason why they couldn't have been made into a club to turn a profit with time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOareaFan Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 quote:Originally posted by MattWarnes Personal ownership has always been common in the UK, it is corporate ownership which in perhaps on the rise. But, the fastest rising trend is for clubs to be owned by the community, by having shares in a community trusts. In quite a few cases this involves complete ownership, in other cases a % ownership allowing the trust to veto certain decisions of the board. I think this is a direct reaction to the MK Dons situation and is a positive way to protect valuable community assets like it's soccer team. In no way am I suggesting that club owners should not be able to do what they want to with thier own property. I just don't think it is healthy that a team can be uprooted leaving behind fans who have paid into their team for years and invested their time and emotional energy into something important to them, only to have that removed. I don't disupte the right of an owner to do that - I just wish it wouldn't happen! I imagine there is a market for a team to be supported in Milton Keynes, but that potential should be tapped by the foundation of a new club that could work it's way up through the league system to succeed. Also, AFC Wimbledon attract crowds often over 1000, so there is no reason why they couldn't have been made into a club to turn a profit with time. Sounds like we agree, then, moving around is not ideal and should be discouraged....but can't be stopped if the owners see the need. The MK thing allowed the owners of Wimbeldon to accelerate the development of a team in MK....gaining a league position far above what any new applicant would receive. I only know of one other instance where this happened.....in Scotland Airdrie went into liquidation (thus losing their league status), new owners came along and bought Clydebank, moved them to Airdrie, renamed the team Airdrie United, claimed Clydebank's league position and now play in the same stadium that Airdrie played in. Are there other examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattWarnes Posted January 3, 2006 Author Share Posted January 3, 2006 quote:Originally posted by TOareaFan Are there other examples. Not that I know of - although a few years back our then chairman Michael Knighton wanted to 'buy the Clydebank franchise' and move Carlisle United to the Scottish leagues. Unsuprisingly this wasn't too popular with fans in a city right on the border with Scotland. Other than that I know that MK Dons tried to be the Dublin Dons before the move to Milton Keynes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOareaFan Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 quote:Originally posted by MattWarnes Not that I know of - although a few years back our then chairman Michael Knighton wanted to 'buy the Clydebank franchise' and move Carlisle United to the Scottish leagues. Unsuprisingly this wasn't too popular with fans in a city right on the border with Scotland. Other than that I know that MK Dons tried to be the Dublin Dons before the move to Milton Keynes. Yes, those are the only other ones I could think of but they did not end up happening (although I know that in, or around, 1997/98 there was also talk of Wimbeldon being moved to Cardiff and playing in the Millenium stadium at the time Cardiff City was a 2nd or 3rd division team (back when the Championship was called division 1)...it then became ironic when the former Wimbeldon owner, Sam Hamman, bought Cardiff and started rebuilding that club). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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