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Toronto Star - JDG2 article

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Guest Georgio

Jonathan, if you've made up your mind and are gonna play for Holland just come out and say it. Don't mess Canada around like Owen ********** did, that's all Canadian's ask. Don't tell the press you are "young and need your sleep", that is utterly pathetic. You know damn well Canada would except you or any player of your calibre's limited appearances if we knew you were committed for any World Cup qualifying campaigns - any country would. And you also know full well Canada will have a solid enough group of players to support a star calibre player or two (your brother, Hutchison) by the time the next World Cup Qualifying roles around. If you truly feel more like a dutchman, Canadians would understand your decision. But if you feel Canadian at heart and still want to play for Holland because you think you can win a World Cup or because you would gain more money and exposure/fame, then guess what you say to the press when they ask which country you want to play for ---- you say "I feel more like a dutchman". Because that ain't Canadian son, whether you feel like one or not. Your country is asking for your service and knows the potential impact you could have on the Canadian soccer program as a whole. Either way, people will accept that answer. So take the advice if you aren't with Canada on this one.

And Julian, quit slagging Canada or the CSA to your brother if you are. You guys could actually stand up and change the situation, because when the press truly get's a hold of this story, and momemtum get's strong enough, the two of you brothers will be bigger then the csa and divulging any shortcomings (in the event that there are any) would become easy because people would listen, as long is it is something supported by the team. I'd like to give the csa the benefit of the doubt that they will support (ie. ideal training, preperation, funding etc.) something that is undeniably worthy of that support, something that actually without question demands that support - our best ever chance at making it to the world cup, progressing out of the groups stages for the first time and who god knows what else. I'd like to believe the CSA have learned some lessons from the last campaign.

If you choose Canada Jonathan .... well you can write that story for us.

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quote:Originally posted by Georgio

Jonathan, if you've made up your mind and are gonna play for Holland just come out and say it. Don't mess Canada around like Owen ********** did, that's all Canadian's ask. Don't tell the press you are "young and need your sleep", that is utterly pathetic. You know damn well Canada would except you or any player of your calibre's limited appearances if we knew you were committed for any World Cup qualifying campaigns - any country would. And you also know full well Canada will have a solid enough group of players to support a star calibre player or two (your brother, Hutchison) by the time the next World Cup Qualifying roles around. If you truly feel more like a dutchman, Canadians would understand your decision. But if you feel Canadian at heart and still want to play for Holland because you think you can win a World Cup or because you would gain more money and exposure/fame, then guess what you say to the press when they ask which country you want to play for ---- you say "I feel more like a dutchman". Because that ain't Canadian son, whether you feel like one or not. Your country is asking for your service and knows the potential impact you could have on the Canadian soccer program as a whole. Either way, people will accept that answer. So take the advice if you aren't with Canada on this one.

And Julian, quit slagging Canada or the CSA to your brother if you are. You guys could actually stand up and change the situation, because when the press truly get's a hold of this story, and momemtum get's strong enough, the two of you brothers will be bigger then the csa and divulging any shortcomings (in the event that there are any) would become easy because people would listen, as long is it is something supported by the team. I'd like to give the csa the benefit of the doubt that they will support (ie. ideal training, preperation, funding etc.) something that is undeniably worthy of that support, something that actually without question demands that support - our best ever chance at making it to the world cup, progressing out of the groups stages for the first time and who god knows what else. I'd like to believe the CSA have learned some lessons from the last campaign.

If you choose Canada Jonathan .... well you can write that story for us.

Feyenoord FC

Stadion Feijenoord

Van Zandvlietplein 13,

3077 AA Rotterdam

Netherlands

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quote:Originally posted by Canuck in Boston

G-L your posts are usually of sound reasoning, but I wish I were that optomistic. Here's to hoping you are correct.

This has nothing to do with me being optimistic. This is me asking (and despite a lot of rhetoric I haven't seen anyone attempt to answer) why, if his mind is made up that he will play for Holland, he just doesn't come out and say that. What is stopping him from doing what American Guiseppe Rossi on Manchester United did recently to Bruce Arena & the US team (which was to tell them that he's not interested in playing for the US, but wants to play for Italy, even though they haven't paid any attention or notice to the kid at all, far less so that the Dutch would be aware of Jonathan)? If his mind his made up, why doesn't he say that?

I'm not optimistic about him choosing Canada at all. But until I hear otherwise I'll assume that he means what he says that he hasn't made up his mind yet.

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I don't think he has completely made up his mind yet either actually. I think there are very strong leanings and the uncritical manner in which certain statements are being made suggest that leaning is to Holland. Canada still has a small chance IMO.

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quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

This has nothing to do with me being optimistic. This is me asking (and despite a lot of rhetoric I haven't seen anyone attempt to answer) why, if his mind is made up that he will play for Holland, he just doesn't come out and say that. What is stopping him from doing what American Guiseppe Rossi on Manchester United did recently to Bruce Arena & the US team (which was to tell them that he's not interested in playing for the US, but wants to play for Italy, even though they haven't paid any attention or notice to the kid at all, far less so that the Dutch would be aware of Jonathan)? If his mind his made up, why doesn't he say that?

I'm not optimistic about him choosing Canada at all. But until I hear otherwise I'll assume that he means what he says that he hasn't made up his mind yet.

The Rossi situation is more akin to the Whore one or to the Grande declarations. JDG2 doesn't have any family ties to Holland (and I doubt his grandfather or whatever would be ecstatic at him playing for Holland like some of the "old world" immigrants here).

I think JDG2 is not saying he wants to play for Holland for a quite simple reason: he's still not Dutch and the national team hasn't called on him. Once that comes into play (within a few months?), then we'll see if he's still hesitant. If he does get a call for the WC (which I would doubt anyways) and refuses it, Canada's chances are good. This is not the Whore who was playing in Europe under a British passport and was free at any moment to accept a call-up.

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quote:Originally posted by Daniel

I think JDG2 is not saying he wants to play for Holland for a quite simple reason: he's still not Dutch and the national team hasn't called on him.

Perhaps, but he's made it clear that he can easily obtain a Dutch passport later on. Doesn't sound like much of an impediment for him to simply state something like "I intend to play for Holland, if they'll have me" and just put everyone out of their misery, if his mind is made up as much as everyone says it is. I would be inclined to agree with Gordon's assessment.

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quote:Originally posted by Charlie Cooke

Aren't we being a bit hypocritical? Tomasz Radzinski was born in Poznan, Poland, but I haven't heard anyone here saying he shouldn't have been chosen by Canada.

Jonathan de Guzman has been in Holland since he was 12, one-third of his life, and speaks fluent Dutch.

Canada has a long history of selecting immigrants to our national teams in all sports.

That is a bit of a weak analogy as Radzinski's family fled Poland - as in defected. A similar analogy would be if Canada was using the attractiveness of its Junior Hockey system, and North America had employment standards that prevented non-North American's from playing in the NHL, to poach rising young European stars.

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I'd never estimate the behind the scenes activities. If it ever comes to that, the CSA could have an advantage. No one has mentioned that the WYC is only 18 months away and there are alot of people, other than the CSA, who would benefit tremendously by having Canada field a competitive side and having a sustained interest in the tournament beyond the first round. Judging from what we saw of our U20 side in the last WYC, there must be some nervous accountants not only in the CSA offices but also in Zurich and in Prt of Spain. If this kid is a valuable to the U20 team's success as some suggest, then Canada could have some help.

In this regard, the ********** situation was quite a bit different in terms of timming and circumstances. Besides, has anyone ever been 100% clear on the FIFA eligibility rules. Last I heard, a player like JDG2 could suite for Canada without being cap-tied. If that were to happen, he might realize that its not so bad.

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quote:Originally posted by Free kick

In this regard, the ********** situation was quite a bit different in terms of timming and circumstances. Besides, has anyone ever been 100% clear on the FIFA eligibility rules. Last I heard, a player like JDG2 could suite for Canada without being cap-tied. If that were to happen, he might realize that its not so bad.

Until such time as JDG2 becomes eligible for Holland, any FIFA sanctioned youth games played for Canada eliminates the Holland option. He may be eligible still to play for other nations as an adult, on the grandfather rule, but Holland will not be one of them. In order to play for Canada and keep his eligibility to play for Holland as an adult, he has to be eligible for Holland at the time he plays for Canada (sorry, a pretty convoluted explanation I think).

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Jeez, so much negative thinking. I think people are feeding off each other in this thread, negatively.

He hasn't made his decision, he can't even play for the Netherlands yet and besides, at this point in time, we've got the better De Guzman. I don't want anyone on our team that doesn't want to be there. Playing for Canada is a sacrifice that millions of NON-Canadians would simply die to make. He doesn't want to play for Canada? That's fine. Earth won't stop rotating, the national team will not disband and we will be in South AFrica in 2010.

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You never want to see a Canadian struggle, but I was thinking that the best thing for Canada would be if Jonathan started to have a couple of bad games.

I don't mean I want him to drop off the map, but maybe a few poor performances would make him look less attractive to the Dutch but still very attractive for us. Either this or a huge offer by Arsenal Man U etc.

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Straight from the Wee Elf's crystal ball (not to get too technical, but it's a cauldron actualy) and coming to a theatre near you in the spring of twenty-eleven.

Hutch, Dutch, and The Guz.

The real life story of The Fantanstic Three who led the Cinderella Canadians to the footballing story of the century in South Africa.

Rated; PG13 (abusive language)

The Wee Elf is very rarely wrong. Just ask her, she'll tell yah. The boy's going to play with his brother.

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Well if he hasn't applied for Dutch citizenship then I'd say its a good chance he'll suit up for Canada. If he was really interested in playing for the Orange then I would think he would've or at least would be in the process of receiving citizenship so that he would be eligible ASAP. Instead now if he does get a call he'll have to go through the hassle of getting the paperwork done and he'll have to wait to play.

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I don't think I've seen anyone mention that becoming a Dutch citizen would be a big advantage to JDG2. He could play without restriction in all the top EU leagues such as England, Italy, Spain, France and Germany. He would need a work permit otherwise and teams are restricted to three non-EU players. Of course, he could still play for Canada and be a Dutch citizen.

The Radzinski analogy was in response to the poster who argued that FIFA should institute a rule that you can only play for the country where you were born. There are obvious flaws in such a rule.

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quote:Originally posted by Charlie Cooke

I don't think I've seen anyone mention that becoming a Dutch citizen would be a big advantage to JDG2. He could play without restriction in all the top EU leagues such as England, Italy, Spain, France and Germany. He would need a work permit otherwise and teams are restricted to three non-EU players. Of course, he could still play for Canada and be a Dutch citizen.

The Radzinski analogy was in response to the poster who argued that FIFA should institute a rule that you can only play for the country where you were born. There are obvious flaws in such a rule.

We know about the passport utility (otherwise it'd be pretty clear cut that he'd be choosing Holland) and no one is questioning his decision to get citizenship.

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its ashame to read an article like that! You play for the country you were born, period! its like if I was gonna go play for the Peruvian national team because my parents are from there! just makes no sense

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quote:Originally posted by Dante79

its ashame to read an article like that! You play for the country you were born, period! its like if I was gonna go play for the Peruvian national team because my parents are from there! just makes no sense

If only because Peru makes the World Cup finals about as often as Canada[8D]

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http://www.knvb.nl/archief/clubs?action=viewSubmission&wid=lmcxWclTAC-_tvenNdPeig&sid=EcdeDXTSMTMm4ww1qybOyA

Feyenoorder Jonathan de Guzman was afgelopen seizoen de beste speler in de Nike A-junioren eredivisie.

It says it's from Dec.19, 2005.

I was typed in Jonathan De Guzman and I came up with this? That's not him in a dutch jersey is it? Just a little confusing.

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Nah, it's from July (says at the bottom). He was named best youth player in the youth leagues.

I don't agree with the "only where you're born" arguments (after all, our most dedicated player was born is Scotland!), but it comes down to the fact that JDG2 probably feels more Canadian than Dutch yet might choose the Dutch for sporting reasons.

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quote:Originally posted by Timotas

http://www.knvb.nl/archief/clubs?action=viewSubmission&wid=lmcxWclTAC-_tvenNdPeig&sid=EcdeDXTSMTMm4ww1qybOyA

Feyenoorder Jonathan de Guzman was afgelopen seizoen de beste speler in de Nike A-junioren eredivisie.

It says it's from Dec.19, 2005.

I was typed in Jonathan De Guzman and I came up with this? That's not him in a dutch jersey is it? Just a little confusing.

I have the same picture in a Feyenoord uniform. Strange stuff.

Anyway i am in contact with one of the big Dutch cheeses on the KNVB board,see what he has to say and what the Dutch intend to do. Ik know that the u-20 coach wants him to become Dutch so he can play for Holland.

My Dutch(ADO) contact told me that they had a great party following s.day game,they won 3 in a row and are now in the middle of the pack.He said that Jonathan was by far the best player. According to the MVP rankings Jonathan now leads the whole team,well in excess of all these Dutch and other internationals.

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