Gian-Luca Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 For a central defender, 30 isn't exactly last-season-before-he-retires kind of year. People in that position have been known to play well into their mid-30's. Finishing off his career in Toronto wouldn't be a bad move for either him or the club, and I've no doubts he could compete at the MLS level. Now, while we're all here, let's see if we can turn every thread on the board into a pointless anti-Toronto MLS debate....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca For a central defender, 30 isn't exactly last-season-before-he-retires kind of year. People in that position have been known to play well into their mid-30's. Finishing off his career in Toronto wouldn't be a bad move for either him or the club, and I've no doubts he could compete at the MLS level. Now, while we're all here, let's see if we can turn every thread on the board into a pointless anti-Toronto MLS debate....... You've become too sensitive Gian-luca. There is nothing anti-Toronto MLS in my post. MLSE consistently goes with proven veterans in all their sporting ventures and will be desperate to have a winning MLS team from the start and thus will be doubly motivated to sign and play vets. That is there pattern in everything they do, and this year with the Raptors is the first in recent memory in which any MLSE operated team has "gone on a youth movement" and that only because the Raptors are an organization that is not a desirable destination for proven players with some market value at this particular time. In MLS, MLSE will run a reserve team which will include some younger players, have their Project 40 type guys, and look for the NCAA, provincial systems and other entities to develop players for them, because they are in this for a profit. Nothing wrong with that, just a pattern that has repeated itself over and over again with MLSE. If you find that anti-MSL Toronto, you are looking way too hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Gordon You've become too sensitive Gian-luca. There is nothing anti-Toronto MLS in my post. Sorry, I was really replying to B&W Army with my post and should have quoted it in my response. I didn't have a problem with what you said at all in your response. If I seem somewhat sensitive, it is because a lot of these debates seem to spring up all over the place, even in a thread like this which is just to report & comment on players abroad & events happening to them rather than debate on the merits of MLS in Canada. I hope the next 2 years on this board isn't like this, or we are all going to get a bit weary, methinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca If I seem somewhat sensitive, it is because a lot of these debates seem to spring up all over the place, even in a thread like this which is just to report & comment on players abroad & events happening to them rather than debate on the merits of MLS in Canada. I hope the next 2 years on this board isn't like this, or we are all going to get a bit weary, methinks. Yes, I agree. Some of us need to realize that, for better or worse, MLS is the track we are on and we are not going back so there is no point in continually harping about it. Equally, some of us have to realize that this MLS route is not always going to go smoothly, the best option not always selected and that criticism of specific elements of the deal or the operation of the Toronto franchise does not mean the wagons have to be circled and the messenger shot. Used "us" for both examples as at the end of the day we are all supporters of Canadian soccer and I am not singling anyone out specifically. And this really doesn't belong in this thread as you say Gian-Luca. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 Aguiar did not dress at Gondomar drew with Covilha in Portugal second tier, perhaps he was injured or had accumlated this quota of yellow cards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loud Mouth Soup Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 Jaime Peters scored the third as Ipswich Reserves defeated Norwich Reserves 3-0 at Portman Road tonight. No word if Brennan played, but doubtful now that he's starting again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 Andre Hainault played the second half of a behind-closed-doors friendly with Tottenham. Finished in a 1-1 draw (The Tottenham goal was scored in the first half). This follows up his 90 minute outing against Notts County (3-2 win) last week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peschfan Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 Pesch played in a 1-1 freindly draw against Stalteri's Spurs Pesch set up a goal and drew a penalty, which the rams went on to miss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue and White Army Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 Hampton & Richmond Borough 0-0 Bromley Haven't heard any details yet; will post when they're available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 Marco Bras played 90 as Pampilhosa held on to beat Nelas 1-0 in Portugal's third tier, Division C. The team lost one defender for a red card in m. 24 and another four double yellow with 25 minutes to go, but they made their 2nd half goal (an own goal) stick. Can anyone tell me why third tier Norwegian league players are considered for Canada's national team but third tier Portugal league players are not? Just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red citizen Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 Because Pozniak was already capped several times for Canada before his club career took a turn for the worse. Only speculation, but I bet one of the younger players who came through with him under Holger (Hutch maybe) had a word with Yallop about CP. I thought he played well in the Gold Cup for what it's worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonovision Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 In the Dutch second-tier Tuesday, Marcel de Jong started and was subbed out in the 77th minute of a 3-1 win for Helmond Sport away to Veendam. De Jong played as an outside forward (left side, presumably) in a 4-3-3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 quote:Originally posted by red citizen Because Pozniak was already capped several times for Canada before his club career took a turn for the worse. Only speculation, but I bet one of the younger players who came through with him under Holger (Hutch maybe) had a word with Yallop about CP. I thought he played well in the Gold Cup for what it's worth. I know, that is a reasonable explanation. But what I do think is that sometimes a player who is in a certain place can get ignored while others are given a big benefit of the doubt. As I bet third tier Portugal is as strong as the similar in Norway (both have regional divisions for example), I would think that Bras should deserve the same treatment as Poz and his teammates. Okay, Haugesund was up in 2nd and fell back, and is now back in 2nd. All I am asking is for fair criteria applied to all. That said, I don't think that either level is any higher than A-League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David C. Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S. Just to add, I think that we also have to consider how well a player plays, within their respective league, not just what league they are in - eapecially since both Pozniak and Braz play in pretty low-levels, by international standards. It is possible that Pozniak is a star within his league, whereas Bras may be an Average Joe, just happy to get a team jacket. [i don't know this, per se - it's just an expample]. Otherwise, Kojic, Budalic and deSerpa would all be worth a look too but I doubt that anyone is suggesting that all (or any) of these players have anything tangible to offer our program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 quote:Originally posted by David C. Yes, but Bras has never been considered, and I would imagine he could be a top player at the A-League level. In any case, it would be amazing if his team could promote, then we'd be able to judge him better. But let's face it, if Aguiar was ignored when he promoted from 2nd to 1st with Beira Mar, when he won the Portugal Cup with them, when he played UEFA cup with Leiria, when he played Champions early phases with Benfica, when he won the Portugal Cup again with Benfica, how could Yallop reasonably even consider a little **** like Bras in third tier? But if he were playing in Norway before 600 fans that would be different... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 It would appear that both Rosenborg & Brugge have now qualified for UEFA play out of the Champions League group stage. So as a bunch of Canadians leave UEFA (including Hirschfeld's old team) a couple more re-join (including Hirschfeld's new team, and Klukowski, assuming he regains his health). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 Wasn't Aguair at the first Manchester camp? If so, then he wasn't ignored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Rudi Wasn't Aguair at the first Manchester camp? If so, then he wasn't ignored. He was at the Manchester camp. He went back to finish the Portuguese season, won the cup with Benfica playing against then European champions Oporto, and was promptly told by Yallop that he would not be called for the Belize games, but could be considered later. He told Yallop that he was through with being available for Canada. My opinion is that Yallop treated him horribly, that there was no way that a three day camp in Manchester could have done him in, that the fact that he was the person with the 12th most minutes at Benfica should have been enough, and that he was right to tell Yallop where to go. Especially since Canada has consistently been calling up players who have not done the job who are given the benefit of the doubt regardless. Did Watson's longstanding rivalry with Aguiar have something to do with this? I would not doubt it, as Watson tried his hardest to get both Aguiar and Radzinski off the Canadian national team when they first broke in in the mid 90s. If anyone thinks that merely travel or his career motivations were the reasons why Radz broke off with Canada they are mistaken. Watson was a factor, which it seems he eventually got over, perhaps because his name was too big for Watson to try to bully him off the squad. Radz and Aguiar came out of TO, were of a similar generation, roomed together when with the nats, and for some reason Watson had a real problem with them, especially, it should be said, with Radz. One incident in a camp in Florida, if I recall, was the detonator, Watson trying to provoke Radz and isolate him from the group of veterans -in part, it seems, because Radz was a foreigner, a new arrival, and dared to be confident about his possibilities, disgraceful xenophobic attitude on Mark's part- and Aguiar dared to stand up for his roomate. Aguiar is pure class, I can assure you all, a serious, dedicated player who has played at a higher level than all but maybe a four or five active Canadians. Watson has never forgiven him for confronting him on the Radz question (it should be said that Lenarduzzi handled this terribly, as well as he coached the team itself), and Yallop it seems is in Watson's hand on some questions. Let's talk clear: Watson is a bad apple for Canada, and if Yallop lets him have any say at all in the national program we are screwed. But what irritates me is that there is a clear discrimination going on with folks from certain places, other places are favoured unreasonably. This is myopic, and it is a reason why our program is failing time and time again. We have a failure program, because the folks running it are old school, narrow minded, and so insecure that someone coming along with a little self-confidence and professionalism makes them wary, it scares them. Okay, got that out. Let the butt-lickers come on and defend the status quo, then watch them whine tomorrow about not being in the World Cup, and then tell them to screw off, as they are part of the damn problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massive Attack Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 Thanks for that Jeffrey. The info about Radz is intriguing. I think Yallop's treatment of Aguiar, Nsaliwa and now Fernandes says a lot about his ability. I pray he isn't involved for 2010 WCQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Sigma Aguiar didn't seem to show a lot of class when he posted here a few years back. We know one side of the story, but it would be great to know both sides. Obviously that will not happen... Aguiar had a lot of class when a few years ago he came on to the Network 54 board and thanked Voyaguers for posting his club results. He was at Beira Mar back then. He posted as F.A., giving his e-mail, and I e-mailed him. All he asked was that he be respected for exactly what he was. He has never been kicked off a squad, he rose with a modest team and won the Cup, went up to top flight, was signed by Benfica no less in the December window (just as Holger asked if he could come to the Gold Cup in January, which of course he could not having just signed and being in season), was loaned out to Leiria the next season and actually played UEFA with them, went back to pre-season at Benfica under Camacho and made the team (and I can assure you that Camacho is hardball, dead serious, and openly praised Fernando's team attitude), he played as the 12th man, played Champions (with one unfortunately play in a game, to be sure, think that was vs. Lazio), got to the Cup final, was called to the Manchester camp, won the Cup final, and was rejected by Yallop. After years of being out of the scene this was pure bull, there was no way Yallop could evaluate him on those three days, but he could have respected the fact that only Lars, De Guzman and Stalteri were on higher level clubs at the time. Which is why, upon seeing the slaggers on this board siding with our national team coach for no other reason than the desperation of thinking Yallop was going to be our unquestionable saviour, he reacted in a few posts. He asked this: if the national team has consistently called up players at a low club level without results, why could not maybe the national team call up ignored players with better club results, to see if maybe that could make a difference. But Canada is not willing to do this, we are calling up Jazic who is off the map guys, there is no way he should be considered as stands, we insisted on Menezes when he was lost in 2nd tier China, we had our Kusch and ate it too (sweet guy nonetheless), but are happy to deny the Nsaliwas, Birchams, Aguiars and others their legitimate chance. And why? Pettiness breeds more pettiness, and though I was sad with Fernando's choice (I personally feel you have to keep all options open always) I understand his perception of things. Especially if you have guys running things who are not going to make fair, objective judgements based on ability, who are not even willing to go out and look at the few players out there in our pool who could contribute. As stands, Aguiar still deserves to be considered, as does Nsaliwa, Bircham, even some of the guys in Scotland, c'mon. Which is why, getting back to Bras, the guy does not have a hope in hell of being considered for Canada as long as he stays in anathema Portugal and refuses to move to a league with a way lower rating in the UEFA ranking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S. Long pro-Aguiar, anti-Watson/Yallop rant. You got all of this from your email conversations from Aguiar, I assume. Are you open to the possibility that maybe (just maybe) Aguiar was telling you a biased version of those events? Maybe Watson is a real asshole, I don't know. But he was also 12-13 years younger back then, and may have (gasp) grown up since. From Aguiar's posts on this board (and I only have those to judge him by), it seems like he hasn't grown up at all, unless you count personal attacks on a fan forum as 'classy'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonovision Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca It would appear that both Rosenborg & Brugge have now qualified for UEFA play out of the Champions League group stage. So as a bunch of Canadians leave UEFA (including Hirschfeld's old team) a couple more re-join (including Hirschfeld's new team, and Klukowski, assuming he regains his health). I don't think Hirschfeld will be allowed to play in UEFA with his new team, as he already competed in the UEFA Cup for Tromso and should therefore be cup-tied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Rudi You got all of this from your email conversations from Aguiar, I assume. Are you open to the possibility that maybe (just maybe) Aguiar was telling you a biased version of those events? Maybe Watson is a real asshole, I don't know. But he was also 12-13 years younger back then, and may have (gasp) grown up since. From Aguiar's posts on this board (and I only have those to judge him by), it seems like he hasn't grown up at all, unless you count personal attacks on a fan forum as 'classy'. Ask yourself why Aguiar was not considered for Canada's World Cup qualifiers, playing at Benfica. It is totally mind-boggling. Then ask yourself if Watson was at the Manchester camp a year and a half ago, ask yourself if Watson, assistant coach in our Luxembourg match a month ago, has grown up and gotten over it. Then ask why Yallop can't get beyond Watson. Then ask about Canada results. Then stuff your version -Yallop's Watson-guided version- of "class". Do appreciate that I know that you have a point Rudi, I respect you as a poster here, you are not my target at all. It is just that the results are not there to justify such screwing around, such pettiness. There is no way any nation with a serious soccer press would have allowed such B.S. to occur. Are you happy with the way certain individuals run the program to their own personal benefit over and above the national sporting interest and the will of the fans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stacks Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 Aguiar has had a spiff with every National Team COACH yet(not Watson. When Fernando came on here and posted he acted like a four year old. We don't need that immaturity in the NAtional Team System. How old is he now, 38? 2nd or 3rd tier Portugal, He's done, give it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ed Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 Yep, forget the guys with pride. Let's man the team with 3rd division English league players for eternity. They know where they belong in the pecking order and put up with the clowns in positions of power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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