The official Rangers suck thread.

[argh1]

Down 3-0 to Celtic at 77 minutes.

Their only hope is to pull a Liverpool and win the CL.

Man they're having a sh*tty year in SPL.

[BusanBhoy]

...and it looks so good on them.

up the Tic!

[jordan]

i want a new manager and new plyers at Rangers, we need to be buying british and all we have been buying is second rate players from the french league

[Daniel]

Well, Messier retired!

[MFC]

It's amazing how things repeat themselves. McLeish's first managerial appointment was at Motherwell who has just finished 3rd in the Premier League. He was given a budget of circa £3m to spend, which was considerably more than any other Motherwell Manager before him. Motherwell had spent no more than £125k on any one player. The next season with a pretty much unchanged team from the previous season Motherwell finished 2nd in the League. The next season as most of the previous managers signings moved on and McLeish blew the £3m on overvalued, old (and usually centre Half's) he managed to take a potential title winning team to second bottom of the league, narrowly avoiding relegation. After blowing all the money he was given he asked for more, something Motherwell no longer had thanks to Mr McLeish. The week before he left for Hibs he was quoted as saying that he has never walked away from anything and he would stay till the job was done. Thankfully he left the next week before he completed the job, which must have been to relegate Motherwell. Surprisingly he followed a similar pattern at Hibs.

And now it appears the same is happening again.

He has no talent for spotting players, has no tactical awareness and is certainly not loyal.

I am sure he will hold on for his £850k golden handshake.

What frightens me more than anything else is that this clown will get a management job elsewhere and continue to wreck havoc on the great game.

Just pray that he doesn't come to a team near you!

[argh1]

Oh, my...will Rangers pull a Liverpool and have a great CL campaign?

On to the knock-out stage.

[jordan]

Don't count your chickens before they hatch, With few key signings in the transfer window to strengthen the team i could see the GERS going through at least another round. Pulling a Liverpool seems highly unlikly though.

[juaninho]

quote:Originally posted by jordan

Don't count your chickens before they hatch, With few key signings in the transfer window to strengthen the team i could see the GERS going through at least another round. Pulling a Liverpool seems highly unlikly though.

But they have no money for key signings and they're coached by McLeish.

They're toast next round.

[Polish_LYNX_Fan]

I dont really like the ranger ifact I can say I hate them. Although its rumoured they will sign two polish internationals. Grzegorz Rasiak ( formerly Derby County and now @ Totenhammhe was Derbys best striker but has played ****ty for the Spurs although has not been given a fair shot. THe other is Radoslaw Sobolewski ( Wisla Krakow) he isa DM who is a very soid player and could help the Rangers out alot. I think Raners are trying to go the same rout as Celtic and buying Polish players. ( Zurawski and Boruc were bought by Celtic @ the begining of the season and are doing very well for themselves in Glasgow.

[jordan]

And i guess you would no they have no money.

[juaninho]

quote:Originally posted by jordan

And i guess you would no they have no money.

They were about 60 million pounds in the hole two years ago, this I do 'know'. Don't think it vanished in two years. They still have debt problems.

I guess they could sign players, but they'd be doing so at a gamble.

New players or not, still toast though.

[jordan]

the losses were cut significantly, Getting through the group stages mean more money and as long as i can remember someone has been bought in each winter

[MFC]

Rangers are still in serious debt. Murrays companies are suffering and he is directing all his money into saving these. He had to knock back a £10m private investment to Rangers as the donator wanted it go directly on players, but the bank expected it to clear some of the debt. Most of the money generated from their CL run will go on clearing the debt and not on new players.

Getting throught the CL group stages does mean more money, but highly likely only one more game. Adding that to the real possibility that they could miss out on Europe completley next year could be a disaster for Rangers.

Rangers also have the serious probelm of their weekly wage bill. They need to cut some of the 'deadwood' before they can release more money for new players salaries. The drawback is they are struggling to offload some of these guys. I believe Rangers have a first team pool of 50 players, many on salaries beyond their means.

It is likely they will bring someone in In January but don't expect it to be any massive name. And if McLeish is still in charge don't expect him to be any good (and most likely a defender).

[morrison]

McLeish's doubts have been extinguished... he'll stay to the end of the season..

aaahhhh I love it! scrape through what was possibly the weakest group in a while, but certainly this year, and it creates some kind of euphoria where they can ignore the fact that they have not won in 10 matches. If they can't produce a win against Kilmarnock the weekend, and I were a rangers fan, I'd want Mcleish out, that second... the next two games will show for them if McLeish should indeed stay to the end of the season or not... (Kilmarnock then Hearts). a new manager would have just as much hope in the knock-out round then a preparred McLeish.

not that I'm sad that mcLeish has to stay to the end of the season though

[jordan]

Murray is not the only investor

[MFC]

quote:Originally posted by jordan

Murray is not the only investor

You are right Murray is not the only investor, but he is the major investor and principal owner of the club. But more importantly it is the Banks that are owed the money. Therefore they are restricted to Busman's or Cast offs and certainly cannot pay larger salaries or transfer fees until the wage bill is cut and the debt cleared.

Bear in mind this is a business and the cloth needs to be cut accordingly, hence McLeish is Manager, signings are not inspirational (which in part is due to the fact that McLeish is crap) and the budget for salaries and transfers are restricted.

Murray is struggling to keep his businesses going never mind Rangers, other investors are being scared off by the debt and the requirements of the banks and many Rangers fans are failing to see the predicament they are in and accepting a few seasons of belt tightening till they get back on an even keel is what is required.

It wasn't that long ago Celtic were hours away from going into liquidation and if Rangers and Murray don't take the action they are currently taking the same could happen to them.

At this time there is even dubiety that Rangers have only retained McLeish as they cannot afford the £850,000 pay off (and McLeish will never leave without getting most of this money).

So it appears that all Rangers can do is retain McLeish, cap the salary and transfer budget, push McLeish to reduce the squad size, preferably by transfer and hope the fans stay loyal and results don't go too bad.

What would your solution be?

As for the loyalty of the fans, this is a real test, I have been in Ibrox (pre-Souness) when the crowd was less than 6,000. This mighty fan base is fickle.

[TOareaFan]

quote:Originally posted by MFC

You are right Murray is not the only investor, but he is the major investor and principal owner of the club. But more importantly it is the Banks that are owed the money. Therefore they are restricted to Busman's or Cast offs and certainly cannot pay larger salaries or transfer fees until the wage bill is cut and the debt cleared.

Bear in mind this is a business and the cloth needs to be cut accordingly, hence McLeish is Manager, signings are not inspirational (which in part is due to the fact that McLeish is crap) and the budget for salaries and transfers are restricted.

Murray is struggling to keep his businesses going never mind Rangers, other investors are being scared off by the debt and the requirements of the banks and many Rangers fans are failing to see the predicament they are in and accepting a few seasons of belt tightening till they get back on an even keel is what is required.

It wasn't that long ago Celtic were hours away from going into liquidation and if Rangers and Murray don't take the action they are currently taking the same could happen to them.

At this time there is even dubiety that Rangers have only retained McLeish as they cannot afford the £850,000 pay off (and McLeish will never leave without getting most of this money).

So it appears that all Rangers can do is retain McLeish, cap the salary and transfer budget, push McLeish to reduce the squad size, preferably by transfer and hope the fans stay loyal and results don't go too bad.

What would your solution be?

As for the loyalty of the fans, this is a real test, I have been in Ibrox (pre-Souness) when the crowd was less than 6,000. This mighty fan base is fickle.

Not sure the source of your information....but when I go to the publicly disclosed records (the 2005 annual report out at August 31) I find that the club has slashed over £50 million off of their debt level through a new rights/share offering the bulk of which was bought by Mr. Murray. The direct quote from the annual report is:

quote:Funding

The success of our Rights Issue in December 2004 was assured by the underwriting of the issue by Murray MHL Ltd. It was though greatly

encouraging that the issue was backed by so many shareholders. Over 4500 individuals subscribed to the issue, which raised a total of £51.4m before expenses.

The receipt of these funds, together with the restructuring of our bank debt has given the Club a strong financial structure to build upon.

Our total net debt at the year-end was £23.1m (2004 - £73.9m) and it is our intention to continue to drive the level of debt down while at the same time ensuring that sufficient funds are made available to put a strong playing squad on the park.

So it appears that Mr. Murray has some financial ability to write cheques!

As for the first team squad of 50 that you report. A quick glance on their web page indicates that they have a total of 55 players "on the books".....of those, 28 of them are under 20 and play on various reserve and youth teams.

Yes a first team squad of over 25 is probably a bit large but no need to distort the facts with statements of twice that.

[jordan]

[Desigol]

quote:Originally posted by MFC

You are right Murray is not the only investor, but he is the major investor and principal owner of the club. But more importantly it is the Banks that are owed the money. Therefore they are restricted to Busman's or Cast offs and certainly cannot pay larger salaries or transfer fees until the wage bill is cut and the debt cleared.

Bear in mind this is a business and the cloth needs to be cut accordingly, hence McLeish is Manager, signings are not inspirational (which in part is due to the fact that McLeish is crap) and the budget for salaries and transfers are restricted.

Murray is struggling to keep his businesses going never mind Rangers, other investors are being scared off by the debt and the requirements of the banks and many Rangers fans are failing to see the predicament they are in and accepting a few seasons of belt tightening till they get back on an even keel is what is required.

It wasn't that long ago Celtic were hours away from going into liquidation and if Rangers and Murray don't take the action they are currently taking the same could happen to them.

At this time there is even dubiety that Rangers have only retained McLeish as they cannot afford the £850,000 pay off (and McLeish will never leave without getting most of this money).

So it appears that all Rangers can do is retain McLeish, cap the salary and transfer budget, push McLeish to reduce the squad size, preferably by transfer and hope the fans stay loyal and results don't go too bad.

What would your solution be?

As for the loyalty of the fans, this is a real test, I have been in Ibrox (pre-Souness) when the crowd was less than 6,000. This mighty fan base is fickle.

All those 'EasyJet' paddies from Norn Iron made up the numbers!

[MFC]

I think I did say that 'I believe' a squad of 50 players. Having a quick look they have certainly 31 serious earners who can be considered 1st team plus reserves or pool players which would take a salaried pool to over 50. So I wouldn't say it is a major distortion, particularly when I said I believe which would suggest that the statement was general.

As for the debt, whether it is an uncontrolled £50m+ or a manageable £20m+. To appease the banks and the city, Rangers will need to work on a very tight and aggressive budget to ensure it stays in control and continues to reduce.

We will see what transpires over the transfer period in January and the development of the team under McLeish. Although I do not like MCLeish I do hope that Rangers do well in Europe as it is good for Scottish football.

I have never really felt the need (or desire) to establish the exact number of players or the exact value of the debt of Rangers. I just find it surprising that many OF fans (although not all) believe they are untouchable and are rich beyond their dreams. Reality is, today Rangers are in debt that ensures they must continue to reduce their wage bill and cannot afford extravagent signings. Interesting article on Murray and his thoughts on where Rangers are (December '05):

RANGERS will receive no windfall from the £112 million raised by club chairman David Murray yesterday through the surprise sale of Murray International Metals Limited.

Murray made his fortune through MIM, allowing him to buy Rangers for £6 million in 1988, and his decision to sell the company marks a watershed in his business career. However, he insists that the development will have no bearing on his involvement at Rangers where he is the majority shareholder - and the proceeds will be invested in other parts of his business portfolio.

MIM represents approximately one third of his business interests, and the football club is a relatively small operation by comparison. Its place in Murray's priorities is exaggerated by the disproportionate amount of publicity football receives.

"None of the money at all will go to Rangers," confirmed Murray last night. "The financial plan for the club has already been set, and we aren't making any changes.

"The money from the sale will fund our ambitious plans to grow the business, and we have some big acquisition targets. These will be in the core markets we already operate in - metals and property.

"Rangers is a small part of the company [Murray International Holdings Limited] anyway, it just provides all the highlights in the press."

Murray's recent £51 million underwriting of a rights issue at Rangers brought the club's debt down to a manageable £20 million after it had at one point neared £75 million. Although he had predicted previously that Rangers' debt would be wiped out by this stage, he is happy with the current position and has no immediate plans to make a further investment at Ibrox.

The rights issue fell short of its £57.2 million target, but saw Murray increase his control of Rangers' issued share capital to 91.8 per cent.

He said recently: "I am committed to ensuring the club operate within pre-set financial constraints and capitalise on investments made in developing young talent, such as the facilities at Murray Park.

"My belief is footballing success can be achieved within an appropriate financial framework."

One factor which could force Murray to revisit his financial plans for Rangers is the uncertainty over Alex McLeish's future at Rangers. With McLeish already talking about leaving on his own terms if he isn't removed first, his departure is imminent.

The hiring of a new manager is not likely to break the bank in itself, but whoever takes over from McLeish is sure to want to rebuild the first-team squad with better players than those who have produced such disappointing results this season. There is also the possibility that existing squad members will have to be paid off to make way for replacements.

The sale of Murray International Metals marks the end of a long association with Scottish sport. As well as the obvious Rangers connection, Murray put the company's name to basketball and hockey teams, with the basketball team in particular enjoying success and a high profile in the 1980s.