Leafs Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 Does anyone on these boards have memories of seeing the Falcons at Varsity in the 1960's. I have many momories of pro soccer at Varsity. Falcon's Metro's Metro's-Croatia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 Before my time by a few years, but here's a page with some info on the Falcons (also a great NASL site in general, for those that want get a nostalgic taste for things to come): http://home.att.net/~nasl/nasl.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 While we're at it, here's the NASL average attendance & record per year for every Canadian team 1967 (United Soccer Association) (Wins, Ties, Losses, GF & A, Winning % & Avg. attendance Toronto City 12 4 5 3 23 17 13 .541 6,923 Vancouver Royal Canadians 12 3 5 4 20 28 11 .458 7,019 National Professional Soccer League Toronto Falcons 32 10 5 17 59 70 127 .390 3,792 1968 NASL Toronto Falcons 32 13 6 13 55 69 144 .500 5,336 Vancouver Royals 32 12 5 15 51 60 136 .453 6,197 All but 5 teams folded after the initial NASL season. No Canadian teams operated in 1969 or 1970. 1971 Toronto Metros 24 5 9 10 32 47 89 .395 5,993 Montreal Olympique 24 4 5 15 29 59 65 .270 2,440 1972 Montreal Olympique 14 4 5 5 19 20 57 .464 2,308 Toronto Metros 14 4 4 6 18 22 53 .428 7,173 1973 Toronto Metros 19 6 9 4 32 18 89 .552 5,961 Montreal Olympique 19 5 4 10 25 32 64 .368 3,856 1974 Toronto Metros 20 9 1 10 30 31 87 .475 3,458 Vancouver Whitecaps 20 5 4 11 29 30 70 .350 10,979 1975 Toronto Metros-Croatia 22 13 9 39 28 114 .590 6,271 Vancouver Whitecaps 22 11 11 38 28 99 .500 7,579 1976 Toronto Metros-Croatia 24 15 9 38 30 123 .625 5,555 Vancouver Whitecaps 24 14 10 38 30 120 .583 8,655 1977 Toronto Metros-Croatia 26 13 13 42 38 115 .500 7,336 Vancouver Whitecaps 26 14 12 43 36 124 .538 11,897 1978 Toronto Metros-Croatia 30 16 14 58 47 144 .533 6,257 Vancouver Whitecaps 30 24 6 68 29 199 .800 15,736 1979 Toronto Blizzard 30 14 16 52 65 133 .466 11,821 Vancouver Whitecaps 30 20 10 54 34 172 .666 22,962 Edmonton Drillers 30 8 0 22 43 78 88 .267 9,923 1980 Toronto Blizzard 32 14 18 49 65 128 .437 15,043 Vancouver Whitecaps 32 16 16 52 47 139 .500 26,834 Edmonton Drillers 32 17 15 58 51 149 .531 10,920 1981 Montreal Manic 32 15 17 63 57 141 .468 23,704 Toronto Blizzard 32 7 25 39 82 77 .218 7,299 Vancouver Whitecaps 32 21 11 74 43 186 .656 23,236 Calgary Boomers 32 17 15 59 54 151 .531 10,501 Edmonton Drillers 32 12 20 60 79 123 .375 10,632 1982 Montreal Manic 32 19 13 60 43 159 .593 21,348 Toronto Blizzard 32 17 15 64 47 151 .531 8,185 Vancouver Whitecaps 32 20 12 58 48 160 .625 18,254 Edmonton Drillers 32 11 21 38 65 93 .343 4,922 1983 Toronto Blizzard 30 16 14 51 48 135 .533 11,630 Montreal Manic 30 12 18 58 71 124 .400 9,910 Vancouver Whitecaps 30 24 6 63 34 187 .800 29,166 1984 Toronto Blizzard 24 14 10 46 33 117 .583 11,452 Vancouver Whitecaps 24 13 11 51 48 117 .541 13,924 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarrek Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Everyone seems to forget about the ECSL (Eastern Canada Soccer League). Toronto City drew respectable numbers to Varsity Stadium, and even had Sir Stanley Matthews on their team! The league lasted for 4 years, from 1961 to 1965. Check out all the venue changes! I have yet to verify the locations for the all the matches. Team Name Year League Venue Toronto City 1961 (ECSL) Varsity Toronto City 1962 (ECSL) Varsity Toronto City 1963 (ECSL) Varsity Toronto City 1964 (ECSL) Varsity Toronto City 1965 (ECSL) Varsity No Club 1966 Toronto City 1967 Toronto Falcons 1967 Toronto Falcons 1968 (NASL) Varsity No Club 1969 No Club 1970 Toronto Metros 1971 (NASL) Varsity Toronto Metro 1972 (NASL) Varsity Toronto Metros 1973 (NASL) Varsity Toronto Metros 1974 (NASL) Varsity Toronto Metros-Croatia 1975 (NASL) Varsity? Toronto Metros-Croatia 1976 (NASL) Lamport? Toronto Metros-Croatia 1977 (NASL) Lamport? Toronto Metros-Croatia 1978 (NASL) Lamport? Toronto Blizzard 1979 (NASL) Exhibition Toronto Blizzard 1980 (NASL) Exhibition Toronto Blizzard 1981 (NASL) Exhibition Toronto Blizzard 1982 (NASL) Exhibition Toronto Blizzard 1983 (NASL) Varsity Toronto Blizzard 1984 (NASL) Varsity INEX (Toronto Blizzard) 1985 (Touring Exhibition) Toronto Blizzard 1986 (NSL) Toronto Blizzard 1987 (CSL) Toronto Blizzard 1988 (CSL) Toronto Blizzard 1989 (CSL) Toronto Blizzard 1990 (CSL) Centennial Toronto Blizzard 1991 (CSL) Centennial Toronto Blizzard 1992 (CSL) Centennial Toronto Blizzard 1993 (APSL) Varsity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Jarrek Everyone seems to forget about the ECSL (Eastern Canada Soccer League). Toronto City drew respectable numbers to Varsity Stadium, and even had Sir Stanley Matthews on their team! The league lasted for 4 years, from 1961 to 1965. I haven't forgotten, but I can't post attendance figures for that league because I don't have any, other than an eyewitness report (my father) who attended matches at Varsity with crowds occasionally reaching between 15 to 17 thousand. There were two Toronto teams in the ECSL by the way, not just Toronto City. I believe Toronto Roma was the other. Montreal Cantalia and a team from Hamilton who's moniker temporarily eludes me were the other teams. When you add the ECSL to the years where the Metros & Blizzard faced decent competition (for attendance dollars) from the likes of Toronto Italia, and then add the Blizzard & North York Rocket years of the CSL, it becomes apparent that a lot of the most successful years for pro soccer in Toronto, the city was supporting more than one professional team at the same time. Which makes the Lynx inability to get over 2000 regularly with no real competition to speak of stand out even more. It also means that Toronto soccer fans are starved for major pro soccer and that MLSE will have to remind a lot of people (or introduce the concept to them) of what its like to go to local soccer games regularly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Jarrek Toronto Metros-Croatia 1975 (NASL) Varsity? Toronto Metros-Croatia 1976 (NASL) Lamport? Toronto Metros-Croatia 1977 (NASL) Lamport? Toronto Metros-Croatia 1978 (NASL) Lamport? I think the Metros played at both Varsity & Lamport during the 1976 season (though not at the same time, obviously. ). I don't recall any games played at Lamport in 1977 or 1978. I went to games every year from 1976 & 1978 and all that I attended would have been at Varsity (I have no memory of attending Metros matches at Lamport though the mid-70's was a long time ago now). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leafs Posted November 3, 2005 Author Share Posted November 3, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca I think the Metros played at both Varsity & Lamport during the 1976 season (though not at the same time, obviously. ). I don't recall any games played at Lamport in 1977 or 1978. I went to games every year from 1976 & 1978 and all that I attended would have been at Varsity (I have no memory of attending Metros matches at Lamport though the mid-70's was a long time ago now). Pretty well most of the Championship year 1976 were played at LAmport. I did not miss a game that year. That team was awesome. Eusebio Sunholts, Just an awesome team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Observer Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 Its interesting that Vancouver outdrew Toronto every year in the NASL and in many cases by a wide margin. Its also intereting that even the Drillers were averaging about 10k other than for the last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 quote:Originally posted by An Observer Its interesting that Vancouver outdrew Toronto every year in the NASL and in many cases by a wide margin. Its also intereting that even the Drillers were averaging about 10k other than for the last year. Although in the pre-NASL year of 1967 the two Toronto teams combined outdrew the Vancouver team. As mentioned, Toronto's soccer market was almost always divided in those days. I suspect if Vancouver comes to the MLS they may very well outdraw Toronto on seasonal average attendance because of the advantage of superior weather for March/April dates. All things being equal I know where I'd rather sit to in an open-air stadium in the month of April. One of the myths that has been bandied around here recently by another poster is that Montreal did better than Toronto in the NASL. They did - for two years out of the 6 that Montreal had a franchise. The other 4 years, Toronto had better attendance (and nearly led the league in it in 1972), and of course, Toronto seems to have had the best corporate support as they had an NASL team longer than any other Canadian city, despite not having the best attendance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbailey62 Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Leafs Pretty well most of the Championship year 1976 were played at LAmport. I did not miss a game that year. That team was awesome. Eusebio Sunholts, Just an awesome team. Varsity was being readied for the Olympics. I think three or so games were played there. It meant that the M-C had to find another place to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOareaFan Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca I suspect if Vancouver comes to the MLS they may very well outdraw Toronto on seasonal average attendance because of the advantage of superior weather for March/April dates. All things being equal I know where I'd rather sit to in an open-air stadium in the month of April. and, more importantly, during the crucial end of season/playoff games? quote: One of the myths that has been bandied around here recently by another poster is that Montreal did better than Toronto in the NASL. They did - for two years out of the 6 that Montreal had a franchise. The other 4 years, Toronto had better attendance (and nearly led the league in it in 1972), and of course, Toronto seems to have had the best corporate support as they had an NASL team longer than any other Canadian city, despite not having the best attendance. I guess that "other poster" is me and I still don't believe it to be a myth. Firstly, the gaps that Montreal beat Toronto by (in the attendance race) were far more significant than when Toronto won. Secondly, when it was the Montreal Olympique and the Toronto Falcons I think the game/league was less professional so the posting I made that you were referring to (NASL attendances as an indicator of MLS attendance) are more accurately drawn, I believe, on the late 70's early 80's NASL. Not sure that having a team longer indicates more "corporate" support. I think it just shows that, historically, there have been a great number of wealthy people (from Steve Stavro to Global TV to the York Hanover guy whose name I can never spell/say) who have a hard time believing that you can't sell domestic soccer in this city....they usually don't believe it untill a good chunk of their money has gone. Same today, I think, only it is a wee tiny bit of teachers' pensions that we are gambling on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 quote:Originally posted by TOareaFan I guess that "other poster" is me and I still don't believe it to be a myth. Actually no, it was G-Man I was referring to. You are responding to a post that I made almost a week ago, before you made your recent statement about superior NASL attendances for Montreal. It is a myth that Montreal generally had better attendances than Toronto in the NASL, according to these statistics, and that was the myth I was responding to. If you want to argue that the MLS today is more like the NASL of the the late 70's early 80's then it is a different argument as you would be moving the parameters that the original other poster first mentioned (which I was originally responding to). Its still a bit difficult to apply this all to the Montreal Manic though as they didn't even have a team in the late 70's. I think the fact that Toronto's attendance in 1984 was 100% superior to Montreal's NASL team that year (since it no longer existed) is far more significant than worrying about Montreal having better attendance than the Blizzard in 2 of the 3 years the Manic were in the league (which is a very short time), while also ignoring the fact that the Metros did much better than the Olympique - it's sounds like quite a stretch to my mind. Keep in mind as well that Toronto would have fielded a team in 1985 had all the other teams (bar the Cosmos) not folded. Toronto's support was still going strong when the NASL ended (David Bailey can probably speak to the season tickets requests that came flooding through after the 1984 season), not exactly an argument in favour of Toronto being unable to support an equivalent MLS franchise in comparison to its Canadian counterparts that had all folded by that time. There was a time not too long ago when the Impact had attendance as lousy at the Lynx. It came at the same time that the Impact had crappy owners like the Lynx have had the past few years. When the ownership situation improved, so did the team's fortunes on and off the field. I don't think that is a coincidence and I expect that the Lynx attendance would also be better (though obviously not to 12,000 range in the venue they are in) if they had equivalent owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbailey62 Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca Actually no, it was G-Man I was referring to. You are responding to a post that I made almost a week ago, before you made your recent statement about superior NASL attendances for Montreal. It is a myth that Montreal generally had better attendances than Toronto in the NASL, according to these statistics, and that was the myth I was responding to. If you want to argue that the MLS today is more like the NASL of the the late 70's early 80's then it is a different argument as you would be moving the parameters that the original other poster first mentioned (which I was originally responding to). Its still a bit difficult to apply this all to the Montreal Manic though as they didn't even have a team in the late 70's. I think the fact that Toronto's attendance in 1984 was 100% superior to Montreal's NASL team that year (since it no longer existed) is far more significant than worrying about Montreal having better attendance than the Blizzard in 2 of the 3 years the Manic were in the league (which is a very short time), while also ignoring the fact that the Metros did much better than the Olympique - it's sounds like quite a stretch to my mind. Keep in mind as well that Toronto would have fielded a team in 1985 had all the other teams (bar the Cosmos) not folded. Toronto's support was still going strong when the NASL ended (David Bailey can probably speak to the season tickets requests that came flooding through after the 1984 season), not exactly an argument in favour of Toronto being unable to support an equivalent MLS franchise in comparison to its Canadian counterparts that had all folded by that time. There was a time not too long ago when the Impact had attendance as lousy at the Lynx. It came at the same time that the Impact had crappy owners like the Lynx have had the past few years. When the ownership situation improved, so did the team's fortunes on and off the field. I don't think that is a coincidence and I expect that the Lynx attendance would also be better (though obviously not to 12,000 range in the venue they are in) if they had equivalent owners. Good points in comparing the ownership situation of the Impact and the Lynx. Of course the stadium situation made life difficult and I'm sure that if Varsity had lived, the Lynx would have not had quite as difficult a time as they have had since moving but on the other hand, the rent at Varsity was much higher than Centennial Park. It's a shame that we never had the opportunity to experience the Lynx with a different ownership situation except of course for the early days when Enzo Iantorno and the other Bruno were part of the ownership group. db Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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