beachesl Posted October 29, 2005 Share Posted October 29, 2005 Author Topic Johnnie Monster 178 Posts Posted - 08/22/2005 : 15:53:48 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yet another update from SNN - the Southside News Network. Intrepid reporter Whymark79 overheard Bobbo telling the radio reporters (presumably off the record) that Vancouver's stadium should be announced within a month or so. By all accounts, Bobbo was more excited than a kid at Christmas when he talked about seeing those building plans (no details leaked though). It will be 15,000 seats to start, expandable to 30,000 as time progresses. BC Lions want NO INVOLVEMENT whatsoever... so that means it's an SSS fo' shizzle. Unfortunately, it will NOT be ready for 2007 (no surprise there). That means we're going to be looking at a temporarily expanded Swangard, or maybe BC Place? Boo-urns. The Ref western Canada 802 Posts Posted - 08/22/2005 : 21:49:56 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I guess it is better than nothing. At 15000 will it really be much an improvement over Swangard? I don't call 15000 a stadium. Just for curiosity compare to these stadiums of rather poor or small countries. Chad 20000, Burundi 22000, Botswana 23000, Fiji 30000, Somalia 35000. It is funny how a few enterprising individuals in Vancoouver can come up with a new 15000 facility and the CSA with all its resources is not able to build a single seat. Richard Vancouver Canada 975 Posts Posted - 08/22/2005 : 21:58:23 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It takes money to buy the land and build a stadium - the CSA does not have that kind of money and what are 'all its resources' pray tell us? DJT Toronto Canada 3738 Posts Posted - 08/22/2005 : 22:05:51 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by The Ref Just for curiosity compare to these stadiums of rather poor or small countries. Chad 20000, Burundi 22000, Botswana 23000, Fiji 30000, Somalia 35000. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- But what condition are those stadia in? And they probably aren't all-seaters. And that one in Fiji must be for rugby, so we can just say we have one with a capacity of 60,000 in Vancouver. dbailey62 294 Posts Posted - 08/22/2005 : 22:08:22 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by The Ref I guess it is better than nothing. At 15000 will it really be much an improvement over Swangard? I don't call 15000 a stadium. Just for curiosity compare to these stadiums of rather poor or small countries. Chad 20000, Burundi 22000, Botswana 23000, Fiji 30000, Somalia 35000. It is funny how a few enterprising individuals in Vancoouver can come up with a new 15000 facility and the CSA with all its resources is not able to build a single seat. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Your not comparing the stadiums in those third world countries to the types of stadiums that are built here in North America are you? db Joe MacCarthy 325 Posts Posted - 08/23/2005 : 06:41:35 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by The Ref I guess it is better than nothing. At 15000 will it really be much an improvement over Swangard? I don't call 15000 a stadium. Just for curiosity compare to these stadiums of rather poor or small countries. Chad 20000, Burundi 22000, Botswana 23000, Fiji 30000, Somalia 35000. It is funny how a few enterprising individuals in Vancoouver can come up with a new 15000 facility and the CSA with all its resources is not able to build a single seat. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You do realize that the entire CSA budget is 9-10 million/year and that is to cover every level of soccer in this country. Also seeing as the CSA essentially did its job to acquire 35 million in government monies and petty Ontario politics are screwing it up I don't really see how they can be faulted. Hopefully in three years we will have three new SSS stadiums in Canada. If you're worried about size go to http://www.stadiumguide.com/index.htm and check out the capacities of most stadiums not in the Big Four Leagues. You'll find they're about that size. Looks like you got your stadium info from worldstadiums and as they have no pictures of the sites it's difficult to say what condition they might be in. They are the only listed stadiums for the whole country. If there are no seats you can cut the number by half. For example, Estádio Jornalista Mário Filho (Maracanã) in Brazil has held 199,854 but is now listed at 103,045. So take into account what could be lax safety and security concerns in the African countries and well... what was your point? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Edited by - Joe MacCarthy on 08/23/2005 06:47:19 SeanKeay 924 Posts Posted - 08/23/2005 : 09:52:12 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ahhh, and when they make a 15,000 seat stadium more then half the tickets are going to be given away for free. David C. Toronto Canada 362 Posts Posted - 08/23/2005 : 10:19:13 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Personally, I don't feel the need for us to have large capacity venues. A 15,000 seat facility would probably be a great and cosy place to watch a game. And this would probably be in line with the maximum attendances that could be expected anyway. Looking forward to seeing the scheme, especially given the apparent wonderful site. Johnnie Monster 178 Posts Posted - 08/23/2005 : 10:50:05 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by SeanKeay Ahhh, and when they make a 15,000 seat stadium more then half the tickets are going to be given away for free. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uhhh, this thread is about Vancouver's stadium, not Toronto's. Have fun in USLD2! SeanKeay 924 Posts Posted - 08/23/2005 : 10:53:19 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Have fun in 3rd place in the Vee's cup yet again... behind a USL D2 team. Oh and u dont like trolling eh JM... well deal with it An Observer London United Kingdom 498 Posts Posted - 08/23/2005 : 12:43:49 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I went to see Canada in Portugal as well as Canada in the U-20 World Cup in Holland against Columbia and Italy. All those stadiums were in the 15k to 20k range, no frills, and built for football with seats close to the field. They were all perfect for what Canada needs. Joe MacCarthy 325 Posts Posted - 08/23/2005 : 13:09:52 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by An Observer I went to see Canada in Portugal as well as Canada in the U-20 World Cup in Holland against Columbia and Italy. All those stadiums were in the 15k to 20k range, no frills, and built for football with seats close to the field. They were all perfect for what Canada needs. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The stadium that you were in is about the size what the Vancouver and Montreal stadiums look to be (14,800). Our bid for WYC2007 will almost double the capacity for the cities' counterpart in Holland. http://www.fifa.com/en/comp/WYC/tournament/0,6416,WYC-2005-2004,00.html You will most likely never see another stadium built in Canada with over 35,000 seats. We're now gearing up for the bid for the 2014 Commonwealth Games which we'll most likely get. Canadian cities in the running (from memory, I'm missing some) Halifax, Hamilton, York Region and a couple others I can't remember. I'd say it will be one of the first two. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Edited by - Joe MacCarthy on 08/23/2005 13:12:08 Krammerhead North Vancouver Canada 1551 Posts Posted - 08/23/2005 : 14:45:58 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by SeanKeay Have fun in 3rd place in the Vee's cup yet again... behind a USL D2 team. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Oh man, that's probably the lamest "diss" imaginable. Do you really think outside of winning the Voyageurs cup that anybody cares what order the two teams that don't win finish? Too funny. SeanKeay 924 Posts Posted - 08/23/2005 : 15:21:49 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You wanna hear a lame assed diss.... When u wake up tommorow beside Jori Fisher.. tell him marc has his prize for him NOW THAT WAS LAME OOO SNAP Johnnie Monster 178 Posts Posted - 08/23/2005 : 16:34:13 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Huh? What the hell are the Ultras smoking in Toronto? Anyway, the bottom line here is that Vancouver's stadium is on the way. 15,000 is a great size to start for USL\MLS. The Caps could sit back and do ZERO marketing, and the convenience of the location alone would still add at least a couple thousand to Vancouver's current attendance levels. The expected marketing push will surely be huge. Question re: new facility hype - does anyone know of any specific examples where the hype of new stadia seemed to boost attendance for an existing team (any sport)? I'm curious how this will play out in Vancouver. If I'm not mistaken, the Canucks move from the Pacific Coliseum to GM Place years ago did very well for attendance. Same product, different location. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Edited by - Johnnie Monster on 08/23/2005 16:37:56 Krammerhead North Vancouver Canada 1551 Posts Posted - 08/23/2005 : 17:06:54 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well when the Whitecaps went from Empire stadium to BC place there was a huge increase in attendance. But in the present day case one of the biggest benefits of moving from Swangard is not constantly filling up a new stadium it's in the fact that on occasions they will be able to draw large crowds. Take Portland for example. They draw similar crowds as Vancouver, but on occasion they get large crowds. Last game they drew nearly 9,000 because it was youth soccer association day. At Swangard the Whitecaps don't have that chance at drawing the occasional big crowd to bump up their average. If the Caps stay in the USL I don't imagine they'd expect to fill up the stadium on a regular basis, but at least they wont have to turn anybody away at the gates as they do sometimes now. As for refs question as too whether a 15,000 seat stadium would be much better than swangard, c'mon. 15,000 real seats which more than doubles Swangards capacity, no track, prime location, real toilets instead of portapotties, and the Whitecaps actually get money from concessions. Yes, I'd call that an improvement. Joe MacCarthy 325 Posts Posted - 08/23/2005 : 17:39:07 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Johnnie Monster Question re: new facility hype - does anyone know of any specific examples where the hype of new stadia seemed to boost attendance for an existing team (any sport)? I'm curious how this will play out in Vancouver. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Montreal Alouettes... moving into Olympic Stadium and then moving out of Olympic Stadium (Molson Stadium) both triggered large increases. Or did you mean an attendance increase at Swangard in anticipation? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Edited by - Joe MacCarthy on 08/23/2005 17:40:37 Johnnie Monster 178 Posts Posted - 08/23/2005 : 18:22:26 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No, you were right the first time - I meant increased attendance at the new digs. Vancouversoccerman 33 Posts Posted - 08/23/2005 : 21:26:17 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Johnnie Monster e. Question re: new facility hype - does anyone know of any specific examples where the hype of new stadia seemed to boost attendance for an existing team (any sport)? I'm curious how this will play out in Vancouver. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Baseball has quite a few examples. Moving into Baseball-Specific Stadiums did wonders for attendance in Seattle, Baltimore, Texas, Houston, Cleveland and San Francisco. However, it hasn't done much beyond the first season in Detroit and Pittsburgh, and even Cleveland has lagged since their glory years. NFL football doesn't really have any examples, because the teams that need new stadiums are usually the ones that sell out anyway. In fact, Buffalo, New Orleans, San Diego, Oakland and Arizona were the only teams that sold less than 90% capacity last season. I think the Whitecaps will see a noticeable and lasting increase in their attendance...especially if they keep the atmosphere of Swangard (ie. the Southside) intact. Every time I bring someone to the Southside at Swangard, they become an instant convert and ask me when they can go again. Combine that with a high profile downtown location and a consistently successful team like they have now, they could probably average well over 10,000 and perhaps even sell-out. For those of you who have never been to Swangard, one of the things that's important is that the capacity has been kept artificially small (5700 if I'm not mistaken)in part because of the parking situation. After you use up the small onsite parking, the Telus parking lot (closed now because of the lockout), and the residential side streets, there no room for much more. You simply can't build a parking lot by cutting down 200 year old trees in Burnaby Central Park. I'd be all for an expanded Swangard (with removal of the track) if there was better parking, and more in it financially for the Whitecaps. But the new stadium proposal, if it's true, will be as perfect as it can get for the Caps! 15,000 is just enough to handle the USL, and 30,000 for if and when something bigger comes along. Andrew W Olds Canada 911 Posts Posted - 08/24/2005 : 00:31:36 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On a soccer related note, The LA Galaxy noticed a 15 per cent increase when they moved from the Rose Bowl to the HDC in Carson. They averaged 19,047 in 2002 and 21,983 in the new digs. In 2004 they averaged 23,809 and set an MLS record of 13 of 15 games with attendance over 20,000. Also remember that the Galaxy don't have high profile doubleheaders to boost attendance numbers like many other MLS cities. As well, there didn't seem to be an appreciable reason for the interest to be higher in the team for either of those two years. While they were defending league champs in 2003, they didn't play at home for eight games and had a horrendous start to the season. However, it is no secret that the stadium received quite a bit of hype considering it was really the first of its kind in the US (if you discount the Columbus erector set stadium). Now having been to LA only twice in my life, I can't tell you whether Carson is more convenient or whatever than Pasadena and whether or not it helped. On a side note, if Vancouver or Toronto (or both) build soccer-specific venues, I'll be there to check it out regardless of level of league it's hosting. I'm planning to try and get to Montreal to see that one once it's finished. Udinese Toronto 50 Posts Posted - 10/28/2005 : 11:14:05 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Johnnie Monster quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by SeanKeay Ahhh, and when they make a 15,000 seat stadium more then half the tickets are going to be given away for free. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uhhh, this thread is about Vancouver's stadium, not Toronto's. Have fun in USLD2! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You did mean MLS. You know the top level of soccer in North America, not that crap league the Whitecaps cant win in. Blue and White Army Purley, Surrey, United Kingdom 1084 Posts Posted - 10/29/2005 : 06:11:28 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Udinese You did mean MLS. You know the top level of soccer in North America, not that crap league the Whitecaps cant win in. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Crap league? You're exactly what's wrong with Toronto... glory-hunting soccer snobs who can't be arsed to watch their local, yet ejac when a couple of foreign teams come to play. It's ultimately down to you that your city's soccer club is such a farce. Have a nice day! Daniel Paris France 2294 Posts Posted - 10/29/2005 : 09:27:31 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- He's gone, forget it. Crazy_Yank South Padre Island, Texas USA 270 Posts Posted - 10/29/2005 : 12:52:36 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15,000 is a perfect size for an MLS stadium. I'd rather see 13,000 in a 15,000 seat stadium, than a 25,000 seat stadium. Looks better on tv and makes for a better atmosphere. Of the 12 MLS teams only 2 regularly draw over 20,000. Most of the teams hover around the 15,000 mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachesl Posted October 29, 2005 Author Share Posted October 29, 2005 Topic Page: 1 2 3 of 3 Johnnie Monster 178 Posts Posted - 07/23/2005 : 18:42:26 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As first reported by Snake (aka Plissken) on the Southsiders board: Vancouver Whitecaps FC owner Greg Kerfoot has completed the purchase of waterfront property for a new 30,000 seat stadium!!! This news comes to us via sources at Intrawest, who advise that Kerfoot has made the purchase and is already tendering the building contract. This would coincide with additional info received this week from Vancouver councillor Jim Green, who said the Whitecaps had presented a full business proposal to city planners for a site on Coal Harbour (which is precisely where the site touted by the Intrawest sources is). This is where it's going to be... just north of the rail yards: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=49.286115,-123.107257&spn=0.002201,0.005035&t=k&hl=en This is an excellent site, just a stone's throw from the Skytrain\Seabus transit terminal, and right in the heart of Downtown Vancouver. More details to follow!!! Many special thanks to Snake for acquiring the scoop, and many thanks to Greg Kerfoot, who has been an absolute god-send for soccer in Vancouver and Canada. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Edited by - beachesl on 07/30/2005 14:40:25 analyst 407 Posts Posted - 07/23/2005 : 18:59:38 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Johnny, thank you for the information. I looked at the map you attached and wonder exactly what land he bought. Did he buy the lands that are now being used as parking lots by Helijet airways and the Alaska cruise ships? There's not a lot of available land between the Convention centre and Crab beach. Johnnie Monster 178 Posts Posted - 07/23/2005 : 19:28:19 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That is my understanding, yes. Snake is meeting with his pals at Intrawest later today to pry for more specific details about the land purchase. It does look a little tight for space, but when you measure the rough dimensions of a pitch against the scale in the corner of the Google screen, you can see it should fit just fine. The challenge now to find a good design for the grandstands so that they do not require too much space around the perimeter. I would guess they're going to put one of the grandstands or the main gate right up against the perimeter of Portside Park (Crab Beach). For all we know, Kerfoot may have bought a small chunk of Portside Park too! With the convention centre expansion, I believe Helijet and the float plane companies are also relocating to the west. Not sure what's going to become of the helipad... VIP air parking? Cheeta Winnipeg Canada 1973 Posts Posted - 07/23/2005 : 19:29:26 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Abso-fu'king-lootly wonderful. Wonderful. And hopefully well worth the long wait once it's all said and done. That Kerfoot fellow dosen't say a lot dose he? But boy oh boy, when he dose talk it's usualy worth a listen. Montreal, now Vancouver, maybe there's something a-foot in the Dominion. (Gimme a break. I'm allowed to dream ain't I?) Let's see what that clown act in Toronto finaly settles with. If anything. Waiting for the official word with much anticipation. Three hour flight Winnipeg to Vancouver. If I have to I can live with that. Johnnie Monster 178 Posts Posted - 07/23/2005 : 19:46:26 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm not sure how reliable these Google aerial photos are, but I just measured Swangard's pitch in comparison to the new site. Lots of room to spare from what I can see. One thing on my mind is the parking situation... although you can't possibly get a stadium any closer to mass transit. This site connects to bus, Seabus, the two Skytrain routes, the West Coast express commuter rail and the soon-to-be-constructed RAV line linking Richmond Airport to downtown. If that's not an incentive to leave your car at home I don't know what is. trueviking winnipeg Canada 138 Posts Posted - 07/23/2005 : 20:22:47 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- wow!...soccer specific? (yes please)...amazing with the price of land in downtown van...and to have 2 large stadia so close to each other ....how about 2 MLS teams in canada....begin anti-MLS argument here: Johnnie Monster 178 Posts Posted - 07/23/2005 : 20:36:11 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BC Place will be demolished following the 2010 Olympics... that leaves GM Place and the Pacific Coliseum, both of which are hockey arenas. It may not be an SSS, as there is word about the BC Lions sharing the Caps stadium... but on the other hand, David Braley has the bucks to build his own venue if he so desires. Passive Observer 49 Posts Posted - 07/23/2005 : 21:01:59 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Johnnie Monster BC Place will be demolished following the 2010 Olympics... that leaves GM Place and the Pacific Coliseum, both of which are hockey arenas. It may not be an SSS, as there is word about the BC Lions sharing the Caps stadium... but on the other hand, David Braley has the bucks to build his own venue if he so desires. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MLS has shown us that sharing a facility with a football team does not work - identical seasons (summer, fall) + ugly gridiron lines. trueviking winnipeg Canada 138 Posts Posted - 07/23/2005 : 21:17:23 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- b.c. place makes a lot of money....the lions are a very small part of that revenue...i would be very surprised if it was torn down....i could see it being remodelled, but not demolished....vancouver still needs a stadium with more than 30 000 open air seats for things other than soccer and football...if vancouver wants to compete with other large markets it needs a big league facility....this stadium would be great for soccer, but i cant imagine it being the primary venue for a city like that. Gian-Luca Toronto-ish Canada 3179 Posts Posted - 07/23/2005 : 21:32:00 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Outstanding news! Let's hope we hear an announcement soon. canadiankick97 Toronto Canada 914 Posts Posted - 07/23/2005 : 21:37:57 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Outstanding indeed! This is so great for Canadian soccer. Bertuzzi44 Vancouver Canada 257 Posts Posted - 07/23/2005 : 22:21:27 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 30,000 seats? a little ambitious, aren't we? I was thinking something in the 15,000-20,000 range would have been a better value... although it is very early... can't wait to hear some sort of announcment/timeline... Johnnie Monster 178 Posts Posted - 07/24/2005 : 01:22:58 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Our source is suggesting that it will likely begin as a 20,000 seater, then expand to 30,000. If I'm not mistaken, BC Place is NOT a money maker. It's owned by PavCo, a division of the BC Gov't, and the utility costs are lethal. It misses out on rock concert revenues because the sound is soooo horrible. Nobody wants to play there, nor can they afford it. Upkeep \ repair \replacement of the inflatable dome is also a HUGE financial loser. Once the expansion of the trade & convention centre is complete, BC Place will lose the boat shows, the garden shows, the home reno shows, and so on. The gov't can't justify hanging onto this building any longer. One sell-out Grey Cup game every four years does not cut it. Someone will have to buy the stadium outright (highly unlikely). Otherwise, I'm guessing that BC Place will be demolished and the land sold off to condo developers for a huge hefty sum. Sempuukyaku USA 21 Posts Posted - 07/24/2005 : 01:26:23 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hey guys, I asked a couple of questions on bigsoccer.com and I was wondering if there were any Vancouver people in here who could answer them for me? Cut and pasted: 1. Are those active railroad tracks to the south of the proposed site? 2. If not, are those railroad tracks part of the land that Kerfoot just purchased? 3. Does any public transportation run by that site other than the sea cab (is that the correct term? If not I do apologize) 3. I zoomed out of the map and I did see how extremely close that is to the downtown area...how would you be able to access the stadium site from there with the rail tracks? Would a pedestrian bridge have to be built? 4. Does the land include the park space slightly to the east of that dock? 5. Is Kerfoot going to pay for the cost of the stadium himself as well? If that were the case then he'd be able to theoretically dictate terms for a CFL team since the MLS team would be the primary tenant, right? 6. Am I asking too many questions? 7. Are those residential buildings to the south of the rail tracks? 8. How close would pubs, restaurants, shopping, and other commercial entertainment be to the stadium? Thanks for the help. Johnnie Monster 178 Posts Posted - 07/24/2005 : 01:29:18 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Passive Observer MLS has shown us that sharing a facility with a football team does not work - identical seasons (summer, fall) + ugly gridiron lines. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I agree completely. Something will need to be sorted out because Vancouver's fans won't stand for that nonsense. Surely there's gotta be some kind of chalk \ paint \ dye that can be brushed out or hosed off easily? Screw it... let's lay out some of those fibre optic wires and thread 'em into the grass. Turn the knob left, you see glowing soccer lines... turn the knob right, it's a CFL gridiron. Johnnie Monster 178 Posts Posted - 07/24/2005 : 01:46:51 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. Are those active railroad tracks to the south of the proposed site? Yes they are active, but most trains are there for storage in the yard... they're not zipping through. I would expect pedestrian access would come through the Waterfront transit terminal to the west, and pedestrian bridge access to the south over the tracks. Don't let the satellite pic fool you. Those tracks look daunting from above, but access is quite easy. 2. If not, are those railroad tracks part of the land that Kerfoot just purchased? Doubt it. Either CN or the Port of Vancouver owns that. 3. Does any public transportation run by that site other than the sea cab (is that the correct term? If not I do apologize) About 20 Bus routes, North Van SeaBus, 2 Skytrain lines, West Coast commuter rail, and the soon to be constructed RAV line (basically another Skytrain route from Vancouver Int'l Airport all terminate at Waterfront Station. RIGHT NEXT DOOR. 3. I zoomed out of the map and I did see how extremely close that is to the downtown area...how would you be able to access the stadium site from there with the rail tracks? Would a pedestrian bridge have to be built? Not sure if it's necessary, but I would expect one bridge over the tracks. 4. Does the land include the park space slightly to the east of that dock? Don't think so. It's called Portside Park, aka Crab Beach. Can't see Vancouver giving it up, even though it's just a fancy lawn. 5. Is Kerfoot going to pay for the cost of the stadium himself as well? Kerfoot is paying for the land and construction 100 percent by HIMSELF. No financing or fundraising required. He's a billionaire, so this amounts to chump change for him. 6. Am I asking too many questions? Not at all! 7. Are those residential buildings to the south of the rail tracks? No, it's almost exclusively commercial & retail. There are a handful of low-medium rent apts in there, but none are adjacent to the site. They're a block or two south, right in the middle of the pubs and nightclubs. Noise will not be a big concern... at least not a new one. 8. How close would pubs, restaurants, shopping, and other commercial entertainment be to the stadium? Extremly close. This is just a couple blocks northeast of Gastown, which is Vancouver's historic neighbourhood \ tourist trap. It's where all the cruise ship passengers go when they disembark. The entire area is FILLED with pubs, restaurants, cafes and tourist attractions. It attracts high volume pedestrian traffic year round, regardless if cruise ships are there or not. To sum it up, Vancouver has NEVER had a sports venue at a site with this much pedestrian traffic and regional transit access. The potential here is phenomenal. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Edited by - Johnnie Monster on 07/24/2005 01:48:07 Passive Observer 49 Posts Posted - 07/24/2005 : 01:52:27 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Johnnie Monster I agree completely. Something will need to be sorted out because Vancouver's fans won't stand for that nonsense. Surely there's gotta be some kind of chalk \ paint \ dye that can be brushed out or hosed off easily? Screw it... let's lay out some of those fibre optic wires and thread 'em into the grass. Turn the knob left, you see glowing soccer lines... turn the knob right, it's a CFL gridiron. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- CFL and a club football are not compatible. Problem with the CFL is the length of the endzones. It does not allow for end stands that are close to the pitch. You will lose intimacy if there is a ground share. Also the field will be damaged by the CFL games. Fieldturf while acceptable by FIFA completely changes the way the game is played. It goes from being soccer to kickball. Lastly, the CFL, unlike the NFL plays in the summer months and on Saturdays, so there will be even greater scheduling issues than what MLS sides have/had to face. While a stadium is better than no stadium, be warned that club soccer will not thrive in this country if clubs are sharing facilities with CFL sides. trueviking winnipeg Canada 138 Posts Posted - 07/24/2005 : 02:21:10 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Johnnie Monster Our source is suggesting that it will likely begin as a 20,000 seater, then expand to 30,000. If I'm not mistaken, BC Place is NOT a money maker. It's owned by PavCo, a division of the BC Gov't, and the utility costs are lethal. It misses out on rock concert revenues because the sound is soooo horrible. Nobody wants to play there, nor can they afford it. Upkeep \ repair \replacement of the inflatable dome is also a HUGE financial loser. Once the expansion of the trade & convention centre is complete, BC Place will lose the boat shows, the garden shows, the home reno shows, and so on. The gov't can't justify hanging onto this building any longer. One sell-out Grey Cup game every four years does not cut it. Someone will have to buy the stadium outright (highly unlikely). Otherwise, I'm guessing that BC Place will be demolished and the land sold off to condo developers for a huge hefty sum. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Leave BC Place alone, says the other side Jul, 15 2005 - 2:20 AM VANCOUVER/CKNW(AM980) - Forget about shutting down BC Place, an official with the stadium says it continues to rake in money for the Provincial Government. Vancouver businessman Arthur Griffiths suggested this week the white-topped stadium that's only two decades old is underused and should be torn down so the valuable property it occupies could be sold. But, Director of Sales and Marketing Graham Ramsey says BC Place is constantly busy with trade shows, concerts and other events and generates more than 40 million dollars a year for the Province, "It is a prime piece of land and that's exactly why BC Place should be here. You need a downtown stadium. You need to keep downtown, we're right in the heart of the entertainment district, this is not an area for residential this is an area for entertainment and for public benefit, that's why the stadium is here." The stadium is owned by the crown-owned BC Pavilion Corporation. Sempuukyaku USA 21 Posts Posted - 07/24/2005 : 02:26:00 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you VERY much Johnnie for answering all of those questions...that's much appreciated As far as the CFL issue is concerned, if this is going to be a 20,000 seat stadium that can be expanded to 30,000, then I'd think that the CFL wouldn't really be all that interested since the first phase will only be 20k. They'd more than likely be looking for something bigger. And also if Kerfoot is paying for everything himself, then he'll be the primary tenant and can just tell the CFL to stuff it if he doesn't want them playing there. Hell I'd do it if I were him and instead try to get some of Vancouver's music concerts in that stadium instead. 20,000 capacity with a roof makes for PERFECT acoustics, just look at the Home Depot Center. He could make some big bucks off of that...probably more than what the CFL could offer anyway. I'm very much hoping that I can extend my hand out in friendship and welcome you Canucks into MLS. Vancouver would be a fantastic market for a franchise. I'm sure that would put pressure on Portland and Seattle to join MLS as well. Jeffrey S. Barcelona Spain 1786 Posts Posted - 07/24/2005 : 06:57:06 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Johnnie Monster I'm not sure how reliable these Google aerial photos are, but I just measured Swangard's pitch in comparison to the new site. Lots of room to spare from what I can see. One thing on my mind is the parking situation... although you can't possibly get a stadium any closer to mass transit. This site connects to bus, Seabus, the two Skytrain routes, the West Coast express commuter rail and the soon-to-be-constructed RAV line linking Richmond Airport to downtown. If that's not an incentive to leave your car at home I don't know what is. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- For those of us who will be flying in to games, they should keep the float plane base there analyst 407 Posts Posted - 07/24/2005 : 10:58:02 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If this proposed stadium gets built by the summer of 2007, then Vancouver can host the finals of the 2007 championships. How would people in Montreal and Toronto feel about that? youllneverwalkalone Vancouver Canada 553 Posts Posted - 07/24/2005 : 11:30:10 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Somebody on this board mentioned that GK was interested in what Reading did with their new stadium (Madejski?). Any updates as to whehther that will be a model? Johnnie Monster 178 Posts Posted - 07/24/2005 : 14:13:57 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Jeffrey S. For those of us who will be flying in to games, they should keep the float plane base there -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No worries. The float planes land just a few blocks to the west. Winnipeg Fury Winnipeg Canada 1194 Posts Posted - 07/24/2005 : 15:06:58 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fantastic development for Vancouver and all of Canada. Whether the stadium has a capacity of 20,000 or 30,000 really doesn't matter at this point. A new stadium will definetly boost Whitecaps attendance, but I can't see GK reaching for 30,000 capacity unless he has MLS in mind. Winnipeg Fury Winnipeg Canada 1194 Posts Posted - 07/24/2005 : 15:10:56 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fantastic development for Vancouver and all of Canada. Whether the stadium has a capacity of 20,000 or 30,000 really doesn't matter at this point. A new stadium will definetly boost Whitecaps attendance, but I can't see GK reaching for 30,000 capacity unless he has MLS in mind. Metro Toronto Canada 275 Posts Posted - 07/24/2005 : 16:12:25 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is great news. Congratulations Vancouver soccer fans, and thank you very much Mr. Kerfoot. And I agree with Winnipeg Fury...as soon as I read capacity may be expanded to 30 000, I immediately thought that Kerfoot may have MLS in mind. Page: 1 2 3 of 3 Topic Next Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachesl Posted October 29, 2005 Author Share Posted October 29, 2005 Topic Page: 1 2 3 of 3 Jeffrey S. Barcelona Spain 1786 Posts Posted - 07/24/2005 : 17:16:36 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Metro This is great news. Congratulations Vancouver soccer fans, and thank you very much Mr. Kerfoot. And I agree with Winnipeg Fury...as soon as I read capacity may be expanded to 30 000, I immediately thought that Kerfoot may have MLS in mind. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Vancouver would have the best attendance in MLS if they were there. Though I think for a private individual MLS is a waste of money. Any system where you can't make money from selling a player for your team because there is a single entity takes away the positive speculative side of things. Unless of course the idea is to throw away tens of millions for pure passion. kelownaguy 241 Posts Posted - 07/24/2005 : 18:36:54 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- great news,, I'm not worried about CFL and MLS issues at the moment,, let's just be happy we have another quality stadium on the way (besides Montreal) in a great location in Vancouver, this is fantastic...It's only gonna help soccer in this country when we develop more stadiums like this to promote the game and get more fans out.. Maybe even easier to attract a decent friendly opponent or two... Lets hope we get some positive news out of Toronto at the end of the month and it's 3 stadiums.. Danny Boy Vancouver 160 Posts Posted - 07/24/2005 : 20:48:32 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Holy crap this is wicked.... I'd love to see the designs of this thing. It's such a small parcel of land that it would have to be pretty intimate. I guess Richard was bang on in terms of the site. I can't see BC Place remaining in its current state for much longer when this thing is built. Vancouver would still want the Lions playing downtown as indicated by Mayor Campbell earlier in the week. Maybe it'll get downsized to about 40,000 seats with room for a couple more office towers or something. It's a visual landmark which would make the decision difficult but it is an underutilized facility for sure. If Seattle can handle 2 beautiful open air stadiums downtown, I'd like to think Vancouver can as well. Braley must be weighing his options right about now. Joe Keeper Canada 135 Posts Posted - 07/25/2005 : 02:39:04 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I can see the headlines tommarow: Vancouver fans treated to new Stadium and Toronto to instal new bleacher at Centenial Park: WYC final is a lock! I kidd though. Im sure organisers in TO wont want to get shown up and will get their act together. If all three cities pull these plans off, Canadian soccer will be sitting pretty. This is great news! djfee Seoul Korea 11 Posts Posted - 07/25/2005 : 12:09:19 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Does anyone know when construction starts and when it's projected to be finished? I would assume they want it completed in time for the WYC. This is amazing news. Elias Steeltown Canada 488 Posts Posted - 07/25/2005 : 12:30:24 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Joe Keeper Im sure organisers in TO wont want to get shown up and will get their act together. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The problem with Toronto is that there are no organisers. The Lynx don't have the money, the Leafs don't care, Rogers doesn't want the competition, the city doesn't have any money, the universities won't spend any, and no other locals who have any money and have been involved with sports and even soccer in the past seem to be stepping up. It's up the CSA. I ain't holding my breath. kelownaguy 241 Posts Posted - 07/25/2005 : 13:19:00 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- djfee,, this news hasn't even been announced yet so there is no details , only reason it was posted on here was through some insider information,, let's hope this really happens anyway djfee Seoul Korea 11 Posts Posted - 07/25/2005 : 13:31:44 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So this might just be some rumor? We need some actual confirmation before getting all excited. kelownaguy 241 Posts Posted - 07/25/2005 : 13:40:51 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- yes, that's correct,, I was watching the Vancouver sports on television yesterday and saw no announcements of this,, so I won't believe it until I see it as we've had our hopes dashed way too many times here of late,, and these rumours tend to get way out of control on these boards sometimes as we are starved for some positive soccer news.. Go back and read the first post for this thread,, it sounds like its based on some inside information.. djfee Seoul Korea 11 Posts Posted - 07/25/2005 : 14:09:22 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Considering the Toronto stadium fiasco, it¡¯s shocking that people would get this wound up over some supposed ¡°inside¡± information. I¡¯ll believe the hype when construction starts. Danny Boy Vancouver 160 Posts Posted - 07/25/2005 : 15:32:53 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes... I am a sucker I'll admit it. But we all know Kerfoot has been thinking stadium for quite sometime. And there have been 2 different sources talking about the exact same site. First was Richard who got it from the Whitecaps Prez and now a Southsider from Intrawest cronies. Two unrelated sources generally mean something is in the works. Plus Sports page wouldn't have done a recent piece on the subject if they didn't catch wind of something. Johnnie Monster 178 Posts Posted - 07/25/2005 : 15:46:52 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On one hand, it's "inside information." Sure. On the other hand, it's inside information which came directly from a Vancouver city councillor who confirmed the planning department has received the designs and a full development application for the Coal Harbour site. Aside from the councillor, the lcoation has also been verified by two folks with the Intrawest property management corp - a company which seems to have had some involvement in brokering the land sale. There has been some speculation in the Vancouver media this past week about the stadium, but they're still chasing the old rumours about a location near False Creek \ Main & Terminal. Clueless, as usual. The Vancouver councillor (Jim Green) said while these sites were explored by the Caps in conjunction with city planners, but their joint focus shifted to the present site at Coal Harbour [adjacent to the Waterfront transit station] quite some time ago. Green seems to have specific, intimate knowledge of this project. His understanding of the location is corroborated by the guys at Intrawest, who say the land was PURCHASED (not just scouted... signed, sealed, delivered!) a few days ago. Don't hold your breath for an announcement. Doubt we'll hear anything for a few months as per the Caps' standard "slow as molasses" PR practices. However, take some relief in that this is NOT going to be another Toronto fiasco. Greg Kerfoot is paying for the land and the stadium entirely by himself. In Vancouver there's no need for partnerships, sponsorships or the useless CSA. Too many cooks spoiled the soup in TO. And it's hard to run a kitchen when all the cooks are running out the back door with all the money they promised. Believe, people. It's really happening. Vancouversoccerman 33 Posts Posted - 07/25/2005 : 17:45:10 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Johnnie Monster Don't hold your breath for an announcement. Doubt we'll hear anything for a few months as per the Caps' standard "slow as molasses" PR practices. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I certainly believe that GK is capable of it. It's a plan that's within his means and shows tremendous vision for the game in our city. Johnnie's probably right about not hearing anything about it for the next few months. That's because: A.) There's a municipal election coming up in the Fall. The next city council will have to deal with the zoning issues involved in any downtown stadium project. B.) The site everyone's talking about happens to border on Vancouver's grungy downtown eastside. In the past, left wing activist groups such as the Downtown Eastside Residents Association have fought tooth and nail against development projects that don't include social housing (Seems they want to keep the downtown eastside a pithole forever). If there is a stadium project in the works on this site, then discretion is a good thing. It stops the project from becoming a political issue, and keeps the NIMBY types at bay for now. So, let's all play it cool, and let it happen. WHO AM I KIDDING?! THIS IS THE GREATEST NEWS IN THE HISTORY OF THE GAME!!...time for a victory dance! Cheers, Bill Robert 630 Posts Posted - 07/25/2005 : 18:02:38 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Johnnie Monster I'm not sure how reliable these Google aerial photos are, but I just measured Swangard's pitch in comparison to the new site. Lots of room to spare from what I can see. One thing on my mind is the parking situation... although you can't possibly get a stadium any closer to mass transit. This site connects to bus, Seabus, the two Skytrain routes, the West Coast express commuter rail and the soon-to-be-constructed RAV line linking Richmond Airport to downtown. If that's not an incentive to leave your car at home I don't know what is. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There's a slight bit of difference between Swangard and a 30,000 seat stadium. Can you provide some background on Intrawest? Who are they and what do they do? Has this news been confirmed by other established media sources? Is Snake (aka Plissken) a member of Mr. Kerfoot's P.R. team? Danny Boy Vancouver 160 Posts Posted - 07/25/2005 : 18:35:34 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You haven't heard of Intrawest? Whistler Blackcomb, Mont Tremblant,Swan-e-set.... all Intrawest properties. Johnnie Monster 178 Posts Posted - 07/25/2005 : 18:40:24 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. Intrawest, as I understand it, is a property management \ development firm that handles large scale land transactions. Two of Snake's sources at Intrawest confirmed that Kerfoot acquired the Coal Harbour site. Councillor Jim Green also confirmed that Coal Harbour was the site, and that the building proposal had been received by city hall. 2. The media is a few steps behind on this issue. They are still chasing old rumours about the Main & Terminal site. Clueless as per usual, although the Southsiders were admittedly lucky to stumble on to this information. 3. I myself work in PR, and I have previously worked for the Pace Group, a firm that manages PR for the Caps and Kerfoot's 2007 WYC bid. Caps strategy has always been sloooooow and steady. Vancouversoccerman's comments about the politics of the issue are spot on. We won't hear much publicly for some time, although Jim Green says the official announcement is coming soon.. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Edited by - Johnnie Monster on 07/25/2005 18:40:47 analyst 407 Posts Posted - 07/26/2005 : 11:57:24 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Johnnie Monster 1. Intrawest, as I understand it, is a property management \ development firm that handles large scale land transactions. Two of Snake's sources at Intrawest confirmed that Kerfoot acquired the Coal Harbour site. Councillor Jim Green also confirmed that Coal Harbour was the site, and that the building proposal had been received by city hall... I myself work in PR, and I have previously worked for the Pace Group, a firm that manages PR for the Caps and Kerfoot's 2007 WYC bid... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Good thing you no longer work for PACE. PACE is in the news again today. The report said they donated over $43,000 to Gordon Campbell's BC Liberals since any 2000 and they just got an untendered contract from Gordon Campbell for $343,425. PACE Vice-President Kathi Springer got an untendered contract worth $47,300. These untendered contracts create controversy. PAC had and has skilled PR people and they don't need to get contracts untendered. They could secure the contracts through tendering. The government's untendered contracts must bother PR people because they make the contracting process unseemly. youllneverwalkalone Vancouver Canada 553 Posts Posted - 07/26/2005 : 12:11:25 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That's the brilliant analysis that keeps me coming back! Keep it up dusch bag! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Edited by - youllneverwalkalone on 07/26/2005 12:11:45 Danny Boy Vancouver 160 Posts Posted - 07/26/2005 : 12:15:59 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you're gonna insult him, at least spell douche properly youllneverwalkalone Vancouver Canada 553 Posts Posted - 07/26/2005 : 12:22:25 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=d'bag Check it, dusch bag! Robert 630 Posts Posted - 07/26/2005 : 12:46:55 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Is Mr. Kerfoot building this not public ally announced stadium for the Whitecaps, for the WYCs, or for both? Based on his low-keyed past, why would an unknown being making an unofficial announcement of this magnitude for him? How close would Snake be to Mr. Kerfoot, if he pulls a preemptive public announcement strike such as this? If he was part of Mr. Kerfoot's inner circle, is he still there today? Like others above, forgive me for not get too excited untill something is announced publicly through reputable news sources. If it turns out as the Snake has reported, then "Hail to the Snake." analyst 407 Posts Posted - 07/26/2005 : 12:58:29 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone That's the brilliant analysis that keeps me coming back! Keep it up dusch bag! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Your reaction makes me wonder if you work for PACE? PACE is in controversy. Most people at PACE are probably decent people, but the untendered contract is a sign of Gordon Campbell's corruption, and it makes everyone at PACE look bad. I had hoped Gordo would have learned his lesson after his drunk driving conviction but I guess not. To be clear, I started my earlier post by repeating Johnny's statement that he no longer works for PACE. I didn't want anyone to think he is still involved with Gordo and PACE. youllneverwalkalone Vancouver Canada 553 Posts Posted - 07/26/2005 : 13:09:20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by analyst quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone That's the brilliant analysis that keeps me coming back! Keep it up dusch bag! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Your reaction makes me wonder if you work for PACE? PACE is in controversy. Most people at PACE are probably decent people, but the untendered contract is a sign of Gordon Campbell's corruption, and it makes everyone at PACE look bad. I had hoped Gordo would have learned his lesson after his drunk driving conviction but I guess not. To be clear, I started my earlier post by repeating Johnny's statement that he no longer works for PACE. I didn't want anyone to think he is still involved with Gordo and PACE. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I come here to talk about the beautiful game, not politics, dusch bag! I don't know anything about that which you speak, except that it was a pitiful shot in your long running one-way feud with one of our local football icons. JM obviously doesn't need me to defend him, so I won't. Let's just say your post was OT and unlike yourself some people have useful contributions to give -so let them contribute without all the cocksucking retaliatory garbage. Unless you're talking about Jaime Peters, I don't know WTF PACE has to do with football? Robert 630 Posts Posted - 07/26/2005 : 13:16:43 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- How long do have have to be subjected to dusch or douche bags, and cocksuckers. There's a number of people that take things way to personally on these boards. Like Richard for example. redhat Winnipeg Canada 1070 Posts Posted - 07/26/2005 : 13:39:41 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Robert There's a number of people that take things way to personally on these boards. Like Richard for example. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Or that guy in the mirror? Come on boys, let's stick to soccer. The stadium news is great news, and if you don't want to believe it, that's fine. As for whether or not it has anything to do with the WYC, CSA, GK, or MLS, you'll just have to wait ... Page: 1 2 3 of 3 Topic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachesl Posted October 29, 2005 Author Share Posted October 29, 2005 Topic Page: 1 2 3 of 3 Passive Observer 49 Posts Posted - 07/26/2005 : 13:55:21 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If the stadium is going to host WYC matches then they would have to break ground on it by the end of 2005. No way they can get a stadium done in less than 18 months. That pretty much goes for all three cities looking to build a new stadium. Danny Boy Vancouver 160 Posts Posted - 07/26/2005 : 14:03:58 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=d'bag Check it, dusch bag! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=douche%20 if you wanna play that game.... go walk alone.... youllneverwalkalone Vancouver Canada 553 Posts Posted - 07/26/2005 : 15:11:07 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Danny Boy quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=d'bag Check it, dusch bag! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=douche%20 if you wanna play that game.... go walk alone.... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You really told me off. With the creativity of an English teacher no less. Well done. Danny Boy Vancouver 160 Posts Posted - 07/26/2005 : 15:55:44 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I didn't need to tell you off, you made yourself look like a complete idiot without my assistance. youllneverwalkalone Vancouver Canada 553 Posts Posted - 07/26/2005 : 16:09:24 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If anyone wants a real laugh: http://members.shaw.ca/mossyrocket/ Johnnie Monster 178 Posts Posted - 07/26/2005 : 16:19:49 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ahem... new stadium, people? Just want to clarify for a few people that Snake does not work for Kerfoot or Whitecaps FC. He has friends who work at Intrawest, which has had some involvment in the land transaction. There was a question about why Kerfoot wouldn't be making theses announcements himself... well since coming on board, all media contact for Whitecaps FC has been handled by Bob Lenarduzzi, or more recently, new club president John Rocha. Not surprising. Billionaires like Kerfoot like their privacy, and so be it. If they come out in the open, they'll no doubt be targeted by throngs of open hands and other assorted charlatans looking for money. That's why people who win lotteries often keep it quiet. In fact, I have never so much as seen a photo of Greg Kerfoot, so I couldn't even tell you what he looks like. If anyone has a pic, I'd be interested. ************ Off topic briefly: As for untendered PR contracts and "corrupt" governments, allow me to add two quick bits. I've worked both in government PR and in private sector PR (still the latter), and I can assure you of the following. All majority governments, REGARDLESS of their political persuasion, will farm out untendered contracts to PR firms headed by people sharing the same political ideologies. For example, the right wing BC Liberals have done it, and the left-wing NDP did it before them. From a government's perspective, a PR contract is not the same as hiring someone to fill a pothole. Governments hire PR firms to promote a political agenda. As such, they are going to hire a firm that shares their beliefs and can be trusted to promote the party line. I'm not saying it's right or wrong. That's just how it's done, and how it will ALWAYS be done, regardless of whose at the helm. The BC NDP did it for 10 years, and the BC Liberals are doing it now. No doubt it's the same throughout Canada & the USA. *********************************** Rant over, back to soccer. Krammerhead raised a good point today on another board. This year the Caps played a regular season match in Kelowna BC. For those who don't know, it's a popular tourist destination in BC's interior, about 4-5 hrs drive from Vancouver. Beaches, lakes, wineries, etc. Anyway, we could make neither heads nor tails of why they would take a hugely important match against a key rival (Portland - a sure fire sell-out at Swangard) and move it out of town... At first I thought maybe the Caps were interested in starting up a USL Div 2 team or a PDL club in Kelowna, and were using the game to gauge Kelowna's interest. Then Krammerhead suggested the following: What if Kerfoot intends to continue operating a USL Div. 1 team in addition to a Vancouver MLS franchise? Clearly the two can not exist in the same geographic market. If there's an MLS team in downtown Vancouver, a USL franchise at Swangard would draw poorly. But what if the USL club went to Kelowna? It's clear that Kerfoot has been hell-bent on developing a proper club feeder system from the youth leagues upwards. I don't think there's many North American clubs that have branched out as far as Vancouver in terms of player development. The Caps reserves currently play in the PCSL. But if the Caps A squad goes to MLS, perhaps it makes sense to maintain a USL franchise as part of the feeder system? It's likely that not all of the current USL D1 club would make the leap to MLS. There's undoubtedly going to be a few high calibre additions, so there has to be cuts somewhere... As Krammerhead put it, continuing an MLS-era USL franchise: 1. Gives those Caps players left behind somewhere to play 2. Maintains stability in the USL (a big "thanks" to the USL for operating the Caps when it was without an owner) 3. Adds another level to the feeder \ development system I also think it would offer a lot of local Canadian kids hope about gaining real access to careers in the MLS. Play well in the Super Y, move up to PCSL when you're older. Play well in PCSL, move up to USLD1 in Kelowna. Play well in Kelowna, you might get the call to MLS Vancouver. Danny Boy Vancouver 160 Posts Posted - 07/26/2005 : 17:08:16 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone If anyone wants a real laugh: http://members.shaw.ca/mossyrocket/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for the publicity... too bad we broke up 8 months ago. Laugh away. Sorry JM.... back to soccer.... Krammerhead brings up a good point. How come he's not around here anymore? piltdownman Vancouver 105 Posts Posted - 07/26/2005 : 17:46:34 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The problem I have with moving a team to Kelowna is there are too many tourists there. You need locals to support a team or it will fail. Too many people just go to kelowna for a week or two in the summer it will turn out to be like the CFL is vegas. Although i like the idea of keeping a USL. Maybe buy out the Sounders and make them our feeder team? Bring back there youth system, and then expand the feeder system. Or hell what about a team in calgary? I know the last one failed, but one with ties to a MLS team might do better. Actually like that idea better than the Sounders idea. kelownaguy 241 Posts Posted - 07/26/2005 : 18:32:38 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Kelowna has roughly 100,000 people living here and another 30,000 in the surrounding valley.. There is a good soccer base here with plenty of youth teams,, I'm just not sure 100,000 is enough to fully support the team as best it can be...The Whitecaps game was sold out here , but the Applebowl can only fit 2,000 and some change so some serious upgrades would have to take place.. gwallace76 Victoria Canada 178 Posts Posted - 07/26/2005 : 20:15:06 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think Kelowna could support a USL franchise. It has a solid population base that has a history of supporting local sports. (Not to mention the proximity of Kamloops, Salmon Arm, and Vernon (About 130,000 more people) The vagrant summer population would only add to the gate receipts. In the USL last year, only 7 teams out of 16 had average attendance of more than 3,000 people per game, 5 of the teams having averages less than 2,000. Just speculation at this point, but I think it would work. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Edited by - gwallace76 on 07/26/2005 20:21:42 The Beaver Vancouver Canada 1002 Posts Posted - 07/26/2005 : 20:37:12 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Kelowna is one of the fastest growing cities in BC--if not THE fastest--and is seen as a sort of 'bedroom' community to Vancouver (though the commute is still 3 or more hours.) Kerfoot has connections with Kelowna, doesn't he? In fact, doesn't he own property up there? I believe he lives up there for part (most) of the year. Or do I have my facts wrong? Anyhow, Krammerhead could be on to something, and it would not be a bad idea at all to move a USL side to Kelowna. It isn't only a tourist town. I am sure it will outstrip Greater Victoria in terms of population in fairly short time--still has a ways to go--and is already bigger than Kamloops and Prince George and doesn't seem to show signs of stopping. Kelowna and Kamloops--and PG, for that matter--have strong soccer programs. A good team in the USL could draw well in Kelowna, if marketed well. If this DOES happen, then perhaps Montreal will find some way to do the same if it joins the MLS. Potentially very encouraging stuff. Let's hope it pans out. Johnnie Monster 178 Posts Posted - 07/26/2005 : 20:42:25 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes, Kerfoot does own property in Kelowna. The Ref western Canada 802 Posts Posted - 07/26/2005 : 21:15:54 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Isn't the city building a new soccer complex with a number of fields including a mini stadium? kelownaguy 241 Posts Posted - 07/27/2005 : 13:00:32 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ref , there has been a new facility built in the Mission area of Kelowna with indoor hockey rinks indoor and soccer fields,, as well as outdoor soccer fields,, but no stadium for "bigger draw" type games.. Right now the only stadium is the Apple Bowl where the Okanagan Sun (Canadian Junior football) play as well as used for track meets.. They would have to do some serious upgrades there.. There has been no rumours or mention of this possibility of a soccer team in Kelowna in any of the media here so far.. Danny Boy Vancouver 160 Posts Posted - 07/28/2005 : 12:53:56 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thought I'd throw this out there. Last night Sportsnet stated rumours of BC Place being replaced by an open air facility to host both the Lions and Caps. This would take place after 2010. I like Johnnie Monsters' reports better. Udinese Toronto 50 Posts Posted - 10/28/2005 : 11:23:17 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bottom line is WYC 2007 will be done by the time this place is even approved. 2 years before they find out if they are allowed to build it. Richard Vancouver Canada 975 Posts Posted - 10/28/2005 : 11:28:40 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There have been rumours of plans to demolish BC place for some time. My bet is that it will happen and the land will be used for housing. It is prime land adjacent as it is to False Creek, the redeveloped Expo lands and Yaletown. Nobody will want to build housing over railway tracks. Page: 1 2 3 of 3 Topic Previous Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted October 29, 2005 Share Posted October 29, 2005 What the heck is this thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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