Cheeta Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Winnipeg Fury Like any league, there were strong teams and weak teams, but overall the league was improving drastically and in the final couple of years, was steadilly producing players for Europe. Agreed. Bit ironic though no? Those last couple of years the quality, at least at the upper ends, was visably superior to anything the '80s clubs had to offer but still the league was dying. Hell, I'd say the play was head and shoulders above what the CSA started with in '87 but the rot had already set in by then. Bad management, continual bad press, and no meaningful support from the CSA above. Such a loss. And the results of which are pretty black and white now. P.S. Holy! It's amazing what the ol' mellon can remember with a little proding, eh boys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 My own take on the CSL is that the CSA saw the writing on the wall, the pending crash and burn of the league due primarily to a flawed concept aggravated by bad League management and took action to preserve what they could of Canadian pro soccer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 And by the sounds of it that writing on the wall was written by the likes of Lenarduzzi & Saputo, who are now objecting (apparently) to joining up with the top American league, even though that's what they wanted to do in 1993. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calgary Boomer Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 They're not objecting to joining the top league in North America...they're objecting to joining now, because a team and its stadium is being subsidized by the government, and endorsed by the CSA. I'm glad Toronto's in, but I don't think they'll be any stronger than Montreal and Vancouver are now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Calgary Boomer They're not objecting to joining the top league in North America...they're objecting to joining now, because a team and its stadium is being subsidized by the government, and endorsed by the CSA. They are objecting to Toronto joining now because they, unlike Toronto, aren't ready/willing or able at this point, rather than because it is "too soon" for Canada to join this league and complete the top of the pyramid. It does seem that what is happening to them now is what they instigated back in 1993. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franky Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Thanks G-L for pointing that out. Lenarduzzi and Saputo had those thoughts and intentions back in 1993, now the tides are turned around and does not include them. well, what goes around, comes around. i love irony, at times. i would love for Vancouver and Montreal to join MLS along with T.O. but it isn't happening right now, obviously, later. Forget about the stade as being an issue because if those guys had handouts from the government, they would of gladly accept. spare me the grief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winnipeg Fury Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Franky Thanks G-L for pointing that out. Lenarduzzi and Saputo had those thoughts and intentions back in 1993, now the tides are turned around and does not include them. well, what goes around, comes around. i love irony, at times. Ironic yes, but unfortunetly true. Yes, at the club level it's every-man-for-himself (unfortunetly), and the lone common denominator is the CSA. Everything the Duze & Saputo said is true. There is no common front or plan to unify Canada's professional landscape, and that is truly pathetic. One MLS club (and I am not advocating or shooting it down) simply adds more chaos to the mix. We have a chaotic muddled mess, with no national plan for the professional game in this country. We were promised a national cup years ago, but still we wait. We sacrificed the CSL to prop-up a now extinct American league. And what were the results ? Canada is now light years behind the Americans both professionally and internationally, when in 1992 we were virtually on-par. Who is in charge and takes responsibility for this disgrace ? The only answer is the CSA, yet I see nobody (what a surprise) stepping up to the plate to accept responsibility. If this were a publicly traded corporation, heads would have rolled years ago. So while part of me chuckles at the irony of Montreal and Vancouver getting screwed, Duze and Saputo are both correct, IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 What do they want, delay the Toronto stadium project (and the linked MLS franchise plus the promised tens of millions from the different governmetn levels) for another six years, until Montreal and Vancouver have their new stadiums and are ready to join MLS? Life just doesn't work that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Winnipeg Fury Everything the Duze & Saputo said is true. There is no common front or plan to unify Canada's professional landscape, and that is truly pathetic. I might agree, though I'm not sure how the comments of the Duze & Saputo are supposed to help in this regard. quote: We have a chaotic muddled mess, with no national plan for the professional game in this country. We were promised a national cup years ago, but still we wait. I suspect that a National Cup will never happen until both the clubs and the fans in general show some interest in one. Even on this board, its a seemingly low priority for most posters. I think MLS in Vancouver & Montreal will eventually take care of itself & happen. What needs to happen now is more Canadian USL Div. 1 teams have to emerge, and the CSA should, ideally, try to find new owners for markets large enough to support Div. 1 teams. Though it will be difficult right now in the province of Alberta after the recent failures there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leafs Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 I agree more teams in USL Div 1 for Canada would be great. I belive Winnipeg, Regina Saskatoon Victoria Hamilton Windsor London would all be good choices. I would definatly stay out of Alberta for the time being. All these markets hould be able to draw 5K per game with proper marketing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Boy Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Richard What do they want, delay the Toronto stadium project (and the linked MLS franchise plus the promised tens of millions from the different governmetn levels) for another six years, until Montreal and Vancouver have their new stadiums and are ready to join MLS? Life just doesn't work that way. No it sounds to me that they'd like a little respect. But the CSA were stuck with a doubl edged sword. Either build the stadium and get MLS and piss off the Caps and Impact or back the USL, and lose the stadium. We'll see what'll happen next. It seems the CSA could have done a better job at mitigating the impact (no pun intended) on the uSL franchises. They were so gung ho on getting this stadium done (which is fine) but they could have done better in allocating resources to assist the USL teams. Calgary and Edmonton should never have fallen so disgracefully. We could still have 5 USL D1 teams if the CSA cared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leafs Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Danny Boy No it sounds to me that they'd like a little respect. But the CSA were stuck with a doubl edged sword. Either build the stadium and get MLS and piss off the Caps and Impact or back the USL, and lose the stadium. We'll see what'll happen next. It seems the CSA could have done a better job at mitigating the impact (no pun intended) on the uSL franchises. They were so gung ho on getting this stadium done (which is fine) but they could have done better in allocating resources to assist the USL teams. Calgary and Edmonton should never have fallen so disgracefully. We could still have 5 USL D1 teams if the CSA cared. Its not the job of the CSA to prop up lousy franchises who cant make a go of it. Our friends in Alberta should of supported thier teams with attendance not CSA handouts. What is lost here is that as a condition to hosting WYC 2007, their had to be a stadium built in Toronto. That condition is now met. Its not a handout to Toronto. Montreal Calgary Vancouver had had tons of funds given to them Edmonton and the other commonwealth host slao have been on the recieving end. Why that now Toronto is getting something people are so against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealGooner Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 quote: Why that now Toronto is getting something people are so against it. Because we are Toronto and no-one likes us. We could make a chant for that...and wear that badge with pride... "NO ONE LIKES US! clap clap" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Danny Boy No it sounds to me that they'd like a little respect. But the CSA were stuck with a doubl edged sword. Either build the stadium and get MLS and piss off the Caps and Impact or back the USL, and lose the stadium. We'll see what'll happen next. It seems the CSA could have done a better job at mitigating the impact (no pun intended) on the uSL franchises. They were so gung ho on getting this stadium done (which is fine) but they could have done better in allocating resources to assist the USL teams. Calgary and Edmonton should never have fallen so disgracefully. We could still have 5 USL D1 teams if the CSA cared. The CSA is not putting any of its own money (money collected from registered, mostly recreational, soccer players across the country, into the Toronto stadium or the MLS franchise. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind there would be a huge outcry from the broader soccer community had they done so. There is enough bitterness and resentment about monies collected by clubs filtering its way up through provincial associations to the CSA and being used to subsidise elite athletes. One only needs to attend a provincial association AGM to see that manifested very clearly. The CSA quite rightly declined to provide any direct financial support to the Alberta USL enterprises, firstly because those enterprises were plainly based on flawed business plans and poorly managed and secondly, the enterprises could not generate sufficient local support to survive no matter how badly the CSA and the Voyageurs might have wanted it. Had the CSA invested any subsidy cash there would have been a rebellion of soccer moms across the country you can bet on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Boy Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 I said resources... not necessarily money. That could mean a consultant or some advice since we all know the CSA is cash poor. Hell they have a report from KPMG or Deloitte whoeveritis, why couldn't they share some of that knowledge and help them out instaed of watching them fall flat on their faces. To me that doesn't look good to either the cities of Calgary or Edmonton or the CSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 The report you're referring to was an examination of the feasibility of a domestic professional league, giving them access to it would have done nothing whatsoever to help either of the doomed Alberta USL franchises other than perhaps save their backers money by providing the evidence to support their not investing. Pro sports teams are business operations. As with any business venture, investors should do their research and ensure they have a viable business plan if they don't want to be continually covering losses. It is not for the CSA to look out for the private sector, they don't have that kind of expertise anyway. I agree that the USL experience looked really bad for Edmonton and Calgary but what sensible, constructive suggestions can you make for how the CSA might have rescued those two lost causes short of subsidising them financially in some way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbailey62 Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Calgary Boomer They're not objecting to joining the top league in North America...they're objecting to joining now, because a team and its stadium is being subsidized by the government, and endorsed by the CSA. I'm glad Toronto's in, but I don't think they'll be any stronger than Montreal and Vancouver are now. That's ironic as the Impact are subsidized (via sponsorship) by the Quebec government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 Oh dear, another sponsorship scandal in the offing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Calgary Boomer They're not objecting to joining the top league in North America...they're objecting to joining now, because a team and its stadium is being subsidized by the government, and endorsed by the CSA. I am sure the CSA endorses all of the USLD1 franchises in Canada too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Man Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 quote:Originally posted by dbailey62 That's ironic as the Impact are subsidized (via sponsorship) by the Quebec government. The Impact did indeed did get some the infamous federal liberal scandel money, but that during the all import years they spent in NPSL playing in the worst indoor facility ever concieved. (I think it was 150K per season for 2 years) If not for the Impact Mascot, Quebec would have seperated by now and MLS would be expanding into it's 3rd international market besides the 416/905 nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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