Cheeta Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Getting way ahead of things here (and maybe this topic belongs under the Club section) but I've sorta been chewing a bit on this whole MLS to Toronto in '07 bit, the epic with the stadium blah, blah, blah and am speculating on how long MLSE has been involved with the CSA. At least in the later stages of the stadium trials I'd say. So, assuming my speculations about an Unholy Alliance between MLSE and the CSA exists AND MLSE is willing to give MLS a go, dose the MLSE make an investment in grooming the Canadian football product. By Canadian football product I'm refering to the various National teams. And what would that mean for SportsNet? And more especially for us? All we every hear is how it doesn't make any dollar sense for SportsNet to cover NT matchs. And for Rogers' that may be true. It's not worth the risk for them to invest in trying to develop that product. But for MLSE? Maybe not. They've already put serious money at risk. I mean they've jumped in pretty much with both feet. They've show the CSA how to play the game of big business when it comes to this stadium (hopefully not too late) and they've got a wee little media ability. AND their own cable specialty network. A built-in ready to go broadcaster who would directly benefit from the promotion of CANADIAN soccer. Wrap the product in the flag, give it a serious marketing commitment and see what happens. Is the CSA smart enough to play this angle to their benefit? Dose MLSE co-ordinate "choice" dates for the CSA to try to target friendlys for just to accomodate broadcast schedules? You'd think MLSE would be clever enough to try to work that out. And you'd think the CSA would be able to see the odvious marketing benefit. Wouldn't you? And if MLSE started looking at picking up NT broadcasts if SportsNet didn't, would SportsNet take another look at the value of those broadcasts and the potential of that product? Hey, maybe Toronto's found a Sugar Daddy (of sorts). Might be a fun guy to hang around with for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted October 18, 2005 Author Share Posted October 18, 2005 P.S. Wild speculation of course but I'm just excited by the idea of seeing SportsNet and their goofy ideas of providing NT matchs to the Canadian public put to bed for good. If MLSE uses the flag to help sell it's product (and we know that can work) and it means we get to see more NT matchs at reasonable times with reasonable production budgets, I say sign me up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 How many MLS matches in Toronto are you going to fly in for from Winnipeg? Actually, I'm sure in your case you probably will come and check out as many as you can, but how many others are there? I doubt too many. My point is that a Toronto MLS club doesn't really gain anything. With a lot of these discussions around here, people seem to forget the purpose of a pro club is to win championships, not develop players. Even if Canada wins the World Cup, there won't be much gain to a Toronto MLS team, especially if all the players are in Europe, then it really makes Toronto MLS look 2nd rate. I understand what you're saying and I hope MLSE does invest in more than just their own club, but I can't see it happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted October 19, 2005 Author Share Posted October 19, 2005 Was aiming more at a marketing angle than anything. And one aimed at the GTA market odviously. Any benefit gained outside of that geographic area just being a happy bonus. Expecting MLSE to play the nationalist card (at least to some extent) given this is MLS after all and the one entirely unique and significant factor Toronto brings to the league is it's a Canadian local. The ONE and ONLY Canadian local. The nationalist card is an easy play in this instance. MLSE has broadcast capabilities and broadcast requirments. They'll likely be operating the Ex. for the CSA for so long as they maintain an MLS team there. As far as Ex. is concearned when it comes to the CSA and MLSE their objectives nicely overlap. They've both got to be successfull and so a market for Canadian football within the GTA has to be developed and groomed for the long term. The CSA has to use Ex. for NT matchs. Senior, U19, male or female, whatever. They have to use the facility. MLS Toronto is going to be "Canada's team" at least at the start. By grooming a Canadian football product (even before the MLS version becomes available on-field) MLSE is investing in the launch of that future product to which they are the sole shareholder. And what better way to do that than scooping up a rivals (SportsNets) niche, on the cheap, with the aid of one of your existing business partners (the CSA) using one of your already existing divisions (television)? Again. All wishfull thinking. Real wishfull thinking. But if I were trying to promote soccer in Canada because I just became a major shareholder in it I'd take the easiest root to get anybody to watch. And if that ment prostituting the flag (for the greater good of course!) then so be it. Present the steak with some sizzle and maybe the dinning experience will be enough to get a repeat customer or two if you catch my meaning. Because God knows just about anybody can do a better job of promoting Canadian football than SportsNet has done. And yeah, I plan on being in Toronto to watch some footie in the near future. Maybe not for MLS, but I'll guarentee if this park gets built I'll be there for the 1st senior NT match come Hell or high water. And I may bring a few good Winnipeg lads with me so you boys just look out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Getting some kind of TV deal/exposure will be alot easier with someone like MLSE in charge. Just look at what they have been able to do with Leafs TV and Raptors TV. Even if its only digital channels and probably too much to expect for something like a pro soccer, I am certain that it will be better that what we have now. Which is basicaly nothing save for the little watched Rogers community channell. Getting a TV deal would be real big since it would give exposure and bring recognition to the players and when it comes time to sell tickets for WCQ matches, it really helps to have athletes that joe public has seen regularly heard about in the media. If we would have had a respectable attendance or home support ( other than the our group of V's who screamed their lungs out) for that match on Labour day weekend against Honduras, I think Mr Archundia would have thought twice about those calls that cost us the game. That is another way in which the CSA wins in this deal. By having private $$$ do the promotion for game of soccer, they get to hopefully reap rewards in terms of improved ratings ( which translates into higher rights fees) and better ticket sales for WCQ and other National team events. MNT news and events is bound to find its way into the discussion of the MLSE soccer team on broadcasts and in the media. For example, As it stands now, if a Lynx player gets called up for a key qualifiers, few other than hardcore supporters even know about it. If we have a situation in Toronto similar to currently exists in Montreal in terms of media and exposure, I would be extremely happy. This is another reason why the CSA blew it big time by overlooking Montreal for WCQ last years WCQ matches. Especially the laters games when there were local players who were brought into the fold. Having lived in both markets, I see absolutely no reason why pro soccer in TO cannot achieve the same that Saputo has been able to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoyleG Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Free kick Getting some kind of TV deal will be alot easier with someone like MLSE in charge. Just look at what they have been able to do with Leafs TV and Raptors TV. Even if its only digital channels and probably too much to expect for something like a pro soccer, I am certain that it will be better that what we have now. Which is basicaly nothing save for the little watched Rogers community channell. What makes you think that the networks would pick up on Toronto MLS? They don't have any obligation to promote Toronto MLS on any level. TSN's parent compnay may be a minority holder in MLSE but they aren't obliged to give full coverage to the Leafs (at least on a national basis) or on the Raptors. TSN has only 15 Raptors games on their sked for this season while Sportsnet doesn't seem to have any planned for this season. This a far departure from the past when Raptors games were plastered all over the place. quote:Originally posted by Free kick Getting a TV deal would be real big since it would give exposure and bring recognition to the players and when it comes time to sell tickets for WCQ matches, it really helps to have athletes that joe public has seen regularly on TV or read about in the papers. TV deals won't do squat to sell tickets for events. We've seen from the Davis Cup series in Toronto recently that you have to get out to the community in which the game is being played. Your not going to get large travelling groups from other cities to come and visit for the game. You can't rely on players to sell the tickets. You have to sell the event and a TV contract has nothing to do with it. quote:Originally posted by Free kick If we would have had a respectable attendance or home support ( other than the our group of V's who screamed their lungs out) for that match on Labour day weekend against Honduras, I think Mr Archundia would have thought twice about those calls that cost us the game. That is another way in which the CSA wins in this deal. By having private $$$ do the promotion for game of soccer, they get to hopefully reap rewards in terms of better ticket sales at WCQ. MNT news and events is bound to find its way into the discussion of of the MLSE soccer team on broadcasts and in the media. For example, As it stands now, if a Lynx player gets called up for a key qualifiers, few other than hardcore supporters even know about it. Who hear really thinks that Toronto fans would come out in support of Canada. The evidence from the past shows that you would have had a pro-Honduras crowd in Toronto, not a pro-Canada one. Despite all of MLSE's talk about supporting Canadian soccer, does one really think that they would care about the National team? Not at all when their main focus is for their club to be profitable. And that means keeping players away from national team duty. A player away with the Nats isn't going to make you money for your home team. quote:Originally posted by Free kick If we have a situation in Toronto similar to currently exists in Montreal in terms of media and exposure, I would be extremely happy. This is another reason why the CSA blew it big time by overlooking Montreal for WCQ last years WCQ matches. Especially the laters games when there were local players who were brought into the fold. Do you really think they would've come out just because there were Impact players involved? Let's start being realistic here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 You forgot to mention that the MLS team in toronto would be forced to field a team of US players and that canadian players would be foriegners. Whatever happened to that argument? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoyleG Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Free kick You forgot to mention that the MLS team in toronto would be forced to field a team of US players and that canadian players would be foriegners. Whatever happened to that argument? That argument still stands. How long do you really think that Toronto would stay with reversed rules? Not long. The who point of the SI restriction in MLS is to keep cheaper foreign talent out of MLS. MLSE will push in the future to get into the regular MLS structure when they don't want to break the bank to pay inflated salaries to Canadian players. By the, it will be sink or swim for MLSE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Oranje Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Sorry but do you really think that the MLS venture is a sink or swim deal for MLSE? The $10 million franchise fee is pocket change for them. The fact that they hesitate to fund a stadium has nothing to do with ability to pay. It has to do with making sure that the project makes sound business sense and that is something all soccer club owners need to consider. It is nice to romanticize about the sport; but at the end of the day, it needs to be sustainable financially. I say sustainable financially rather than profitable because the real value in a sports franchise is its appreciating market value. Running a couple of years to see how it goes will already be budgeted by MLSE. The demographic analysis will have been completed. Worse-case scenarios will already be calculated as well. MLSE is only Mickey Mouse in a Disney Corp. sort of way. No one knows the Toronto sport & entertainment market better than MLSE and the MLS knows it. IMHO, if MLSE decides it isn't worth doing, MLS will not be in Toronto. I can't see Rogers stepping up to the plate. quote:Originally posted by DoyleG That argument still stands. How long do you really think that Toronto would stay with reversed rules? Not long. The who point of the SI restriction in MLS is to keep cheaper foreign talent out of MLS. MLSE will push in the future to get into the regular MLS structure when they don't want to break the bank to pay inflated salaries to Canadian players. By the, it will be sink or swim for MLSE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yob Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 One problem with MLSE broadcasting MLS or NT games on their TV Channel is that it's only available in parts of Ontario which would really limit their exposure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJB Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 I fear that any involvement by MLSE will be purely financial, and not for the best interest of the MNT. After all, they just want to make money, and having players on the national team doesn't really mean money for them does it? Furthermore, I'm afraid that having one team in MLS run by MLSE, will mean that the CSA does everything they can for them, and that they bow to all their demands, because that one team is the only thing we'd have. Let's be honest, MLSE wields a pretty big bat, and Kevan Pipe isn't the type of person to makle sound decision. Can anyone else see them just giving in to everything that MLSE wants? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew W Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Yob One problem with MLSE broadcasting MLS or NT games on their TV Channel is that it's only available in parts of Ontario which would really limit their exposure. This is the most important market for MLS Toronto. There is no need to worry about promoting the team outside the Toronto marketplace simply because they aren't going to be potential ticket-buyers which is the most important consideration in a gate-driven league like MLS. Local coverage of away games, etc. is the only thing that will matter. National coverage of any games isn't or shouldn't be a priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepatriot Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Yob One problem with MLSE broadcasting MLS or NT games on their TV Channel is that it's only available in parts of Ontario which would really limit their exposure. "their TV Channel???" One must remember that although MLSE have large pockets and have two television stations in Leaf and Raptor TV, they do not have a channel in which the license allows for soccer. With that said the Canadian Soccer Association has been very hush hush about their Television deal with Rogers Sportsnet as of late. GOLTV will launch on November 1st and although they have tried to have talks to start a working relationship with the CSA they have been very distant and have been saying they have to wait until October the 31st. I can only assume either Sportsnet's deal is about to expire or it has something to do with MLSE and the Stadium announcement. GOLTV is owned by Insight Sports and Insight Productions which already has ties to MLSE. It would be a real steal if GOLTV was able to secure the Broadcast rights for a Toronto MLS franchise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoyleG Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 That wouldn't do much for TV coverage. It would severly limit them both in exposure and in the revenue department. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yob Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 I forgot about their other channel, Raptors TV which is available nationaly... disregard my first post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dave Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 "Raptors TV"???? You mean that people are actually willing to pay extra to be subjected to even more American basketball crap on TV? (already way too much of it on other networks, and I see nothing "Canadian" about a bunch of US mercenaries being paid in US dollars to play at a Canadian locale). Give me pro wrestling or give me death! Unbelievable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Dave "Raptors TV"???? You mean that people are actually willing to pay extra to be subjected to even more American basketball crap on TV? (already way too much of it on other networks, and I see nothing "Canadian" about a bunch of US mercenaries being paid in US dollars to play at a Canadian locale). Give me pro wrestling or give me death! Unbelievable. Actually, Raptors TV might to have more programming option than Leafs TV. For example, Raptors TV carried games from the most recent European Basketball championships. As Far as leafs TV, it would seem that its alot of chat plus the odd replay of a Leafs game from the past. Its mostly talk and I can imagine how ugly it must have gotten with during the Lockout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Free kick [ Actually, Raptors TV might to have more programming option than Leafs TV. They don't. Trust me on that one. Well, maybe they did during the lock-out but not when hockey is on. Leafs TV shows a lot of classic games (no such thing as a Classic Raptor game), AHL games, and a lot of other old time Leaf features which the Craptors do not have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew W Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca They don't. Trust me on that one. Well, maybe they did during the lock-out but not when hockey is on. Leafs TV shows a lot of classic games (no such thing as a Classic Raptor game), AHL games, and a lot of other old time Leaf features which the Craptors do not have. However, which station will have more time to devote to soccer in the spring time? I'm willing to guess the programming on Raptors TV will be a little, ahem, looser once NBA playoff times rolls around whereas the Leafs are perennial playoff contenders and I don't think the soccer team would get much play during the early part of their season. Now maybe they just come up with Black Squirrels TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoyleG Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Would the CRTC licenses for Raptors or Leafs TV allow it then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew W Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 quote:Originally posted by DoyleG Would the CRTC licenses for Raptors or Leafs TV allow it then? I'm not all that CRTC savvy, but I'm sure they'd have to apply for an expansion of their licenses or a new one. Someone in the broadcast biz would know much better than I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Even if they go around the CRTC-rules (which I'm sure they can find away since others do), it would make more sense to go with GOL TV over Leafs or Raptors TV. But like Doyle said, it would be a dumb move. They need games on TSN or SportsNet or even a Toronto channel. Nobody besides 100 people on this board will subscribe to GOL TV to watch Toronto MLS team. I don't even think their LeafsTV numbers have been that good this season with real Leafs games on there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massive Attack Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 I could see MLSE trying to create a YES Network type station. As for the CRTC, its not that difficult to get a total change in one's mandate. The best example is how TNN (The Nashville Network) has turned into Spike TV. Another example is The Score. The Score originally was only mandated to show high-lights. They had to go to the CRTC to be able to show live sports. These kind of things happen all the time in Canadian broadcasting. The only thing that could stop it would be lobbying from other parties (ie Rogers or TSN) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew W Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Elias They need games on TSN or SportsNet or even a Toronto channel. Agreed. They would likely prefer to be on a basic cable or first-tier cable station, especially in the southern Ontario market place. Not living in the area, what would fit the bill in that region but still have potential national reach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yob Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 CityTV, SunTV, Omni1, Omni2, A-Channel(Barrie), and CH(Hamilton) are some of the independent Toronto area channels which are available accross the country on satellite and some cable companies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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