Andrew W Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 quote:Originally posted by matthew I've had this argument on big soccer and it's conjecture, but I don't think too many guys will come back to Canada to make MLS dollars and I don't see Hog Town FC throwing what money they have towards the level of Canadian talent they can afford, when they could poach a name Croat/Italian/Greek/Portuguese/etc player in the twighlight of their career for less than it might cost to get say Patrice Bernier. Also between SIs and TIs, I don't think the team needs too many real quality guaranteed starters. I think Sutton and three of Gervais, Braz and Pizzolitto might be the only current USL starters to be real every day players. Add Pozniak and Serioux (who seem the likeliest bets to come back) and there's your starting 11 (with SIs and TIs making up the other spots). Of the players who I could see coming back, Pesch is maybe one. I can see Radzinski coming back too, but not right away. Forget DeRo. What could Toronto trade that would be worth one of the best players in the league and the key piece to San Jose this year? Unless we get one of those great 'LA has to trade Clint Mathis to the Metros so they can sign Hernandez kind of deals' that leave everyone cursing the league. I can't see Will Johnson leaving Chicago either. He's seeing first team at 18 and is a product of their youth system. He's more of a Chicago product than a Canadian product at this point anyway. Winston Marshall is likely easier to get, but a lot can change in a year. Two MLS vets I can see Toronto maybe getting are Toronto-borns Andy Williams and Mark Chung. Add in Franks, Hughes, Leduc and some youth like Haineault, Marshall, Harmse, Matondo, plus a couple of NCAA-produced Cancuks (Tomek Charowski came to mind first) and that's kind of what I expect the team would look like. cheers, matthew I agree that it's all conjecture. I also agree it'll be a mix of players. Guys I seriously think may come back for this team would be Pozniak, Serioux, Stamatopolous and Simpson. That would be about it to start with. Obviously the rules setup for such a team will be crucial in how players can be moved in and out compared to the rest of the league. As for DeRo, the only thing an expansion team can offer up to Houston, er, San Jose, would be allocations or Junior Internationals (which can be traded) or a combination of both. Hey, maybe they'll get an Adu-style favour like DC United. The same scenario above for Will Johnson plays out for Tomek Charowski. He may be a Canadian international, but he's essentially an American. He could end up anywhere in the league. The NCAA players I see making up the remainder of this team as bench or reserve team players immediately and in the future would be guys who are junior internationals but could use an introduction into the pros but don't appear to have multiple citizenship opportunities. They'd include guys like Josh Wagenaar, Riley O'Neill, Tyler Rosenlund, Mike D'Agostino, Carlo Schiavoni and Brad Peetoom. I agree on what USL players they'd likely poach and on what (non-NCAA) young players may be available. As well, it's a good guess that such a team would chase an aging vet or two from any one of Toronto's high profile immigrant communities. To me the pressing concern would be the management structure. Who the GM and coach would be are the two most important decisions, well above players. Everything would point to Yallop in that he's the only Canadian with vast MLS experience and good knowledge of the Canadian talent pool. Mitchell likely would make a good choice as well with his knowledge of the young player pools in the NCAA and the club structure. Personally Yallop as GM and Mitchell as coach would be the best scenario on the surface, but who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trueviking Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 i could easily see radz playing in toronto in a few years...he has stated that he wants to come back to canada and get into coaching....this could be his ticket to get his name out there even more in canadian soccer circles.... it wouldnt happen until he has finished in england, because that would be a massive pay cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusanBhoy Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 I have been away along time and know nothing of the MLS. Do they operate 'lone' deals the same way as Europe? I know there has been some cases of players being moved back and forth, but what are the specific rules? Could Toronto City FC, loan an Edgar, or a Lensky, or even Deguz the younger, for a year or two (or moves along such lines?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 quote:Originally posted by BusanBhoy I have been away along time and know nothing of the MLS. Do they operate 'lone' deals the same way as Europe? I know there has been some cases of players being moved back and forth, but what are the specific rules? Could Toronto City FC, loan an Edgar, or a Lensky, or even Deguz the younger, for a year or two (or moves along such lines?) They could, but it's rare. Bayer Leverkuesen loaned Donovan to San Jose for a set amount of time and when it was over he had to go back to Germany. He didn't last more than four or five months before being sold back to MLS. I can't recall anyone else being a loan deal, but I remember there being something unique about Joselito Vaca. cheers, matthew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 I don't think any of those players mentioned would be interested in coming back to Canada. MLS or no. We don't hear nearly enough of Edgar, but this is a young fellow who's on a full professional contract in the reserves at Newcastle. They're investing in him big time. He could be the sleeper for Canada right now. DJT was going on a few days ago about the prediction that only about a dozen Canadians would be in the Blizzards 1st team. I don't think this was a condemnation of the quality of Canadian players, just a realization that a good many of the lads who've put their feet in the water overseas are earning a good wage (even as they develop) in a culture which is all football. Hard to turn your back on that for NA football unless the dollars are really good. And even then, the younger lads would need to feel confident that their development would continue in NA. And that that development wouldn't be invisable in the big picture of things. So realy, how many USL 1st Div players could step up to MLS and still keep the Blizzard competative? Oh. And just had another thought which may play into the recruiting quality Canadians task. Single entity MLS seems to have lightened up these last couple of years on letting players move onto EURO leagues. Become more reasonable as it were, but it has been an issue in the not so distant past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy_Yank Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S. Regarding perceptions of the Canadian talent pool, I would imagine that in the US most fans think it is fairly strong. After all, one of the players touted for league MVP this year is DeRosario, he seems to be one of the 2 or 3 in the running. Considering he is the only regular Canadian field player in the league, I'd imagine that most would perceive him as being the tip of an iceberg. You are correct. Most US fans have a decent understanding of the Canadian scene and are in favor of expansion there. I personally am against expansion within the US, but in favor of expansion in Canada. I feel that any US expansion before 2009 would dilute the US talent pool, but expanding to Canada would take care of that problem. Right now Canada has 2 USL teams that with 5 or 6 upgrades could compete in MLS right now. That would be the way to go because there is already a built in fan base and 2 cohesive team units so you wouldn't have to start from scratch. It would be more like "promotion" instead of expansion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew W Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 Disclaimer: This following post is all guesswork for fun. I think it's getting a bit too serious in here when I think the thread was proposed originally to be a fun exercise. Anyways.... I began to rethink things in terms of this thread based on some of the comments (both negative and positive) about this potential team. The original post was name your roster, but I think some realistic groundrules need to be in place to try and gauge such a roster (even a dream one). Considering MLS player acquisition rules (allocations, discovery players) and the salary cap, we'd most likely only see a maximum three players return from overseas. Their contract status, access to an EU passport and overall willingness to accept less money may mean Toronto MLS may be limited to out-of-contract Canadian players or the near-retirement set. As with most MLS clubs, they'll want to use an allocation on a foreign player or returning international. I don't see many of the latter happening, so this team's major allocation will likely be used on an import. Discovery player designations and the expansion draft slots will likely be used up on junior (and or) senior internationals, so the majority of the 11 non-imports will likely come from the expansion draft (of existing MLS players), the odd trade and out-of-contract player signings. The majority of the development roster will be taken from the amateur draft and out-of-contract signings. As well, we have to project ahead almost 18 months to conjure up such a roster. So based on this and not knowing the contract status of players overseas (and even domestically) I'll take a crack at the up to 11 Canadian players I think we may see in an MLS senior roster lineup (based on suspending our disbelief that the team will actually materialize ). 1. Radzinski (F): I think this is the one guy they may make a run at in terms of a Canadian of any status. He's aging and I believe of the age where he'll only get one-year contracts abroad from now on. He'll turn 34 in Dec. of '07 Plus, family is still in Toronto and he made that famous quote about wanting to help grow Canadian soccer. Here's his chance. 2. Dodds (MF): Another guy who seems to be on rolling year-to-year contracts with Killie. Seems to have real potential, but he needs to get playing regularly soon as he'll be 28 in '07. As well, he's a GTA guy and he may be willing to play at home, especially if it meant regular football. This may be more a wish than a guess of any substance. Plus, I think he does have an EU passport which may foul things up if he feels he has plenty to prove overseas. 3. Pozniak: This one almost seems universal by most people who've posted in this or other threads. Fringe national teamer who hasn't really cracked a top division side overseas. Plays defence which will also help his cause. Not sure his EU status but will be 26 in '07. 4. Serioux: Another almost universal choice given his ties to his family and hometown. It seems almost a given that his Millwall career is over at this point and time although his contract is through to Aug. 06. A bit of a mystery as to what will happen. Will be 28 in '07. 5. Gervais: Seems a natural fit. Experienced international now and a proven USL commodity. Rumoured to have trialled with DC United and impressed, but chose to stay with Impact. Will be 31 in 07. 6. Harmse: A guy I really like who I think can play easily at MLS level. Versatile and big. Will still be young at 23 in '07. Another guy who may opt to stay with his USL side. 7. Braz: Solid defender who, if he doesn't go overseas prior to 07, seems suited for an MLS roster. Another emerging national team depth player. Will be 26 in '07. 8. Sutton: If he stays in North America, he may be the only real lock for this roster. Maybe not if he heads overseas before '07. May have something to prove having been jettisoned by MLS before. Will be 30 in '07. 9. Marshall: If he's kicking around an MLS development roster at the time of the expansion draft, he'll be heading back north. Will be 24 in '07, the age where a US MLS team would have to make a decision on him. 10. Andy Williams: Not a Canadian international, but will be 30 in '07 and apparently was raised in the GTA. Seems like a perennial expansion-draft player. He'd offer the MLS experience the team will want. A proven commodity in the league. 11. Pizzolito or Hainault: This one may depend on if the latter is still available and interested. Difference of 10 years in age (and experience) between the two. Pizz will be 31 and AH will be 21. Apologies to Impact for fleecing their team with my picks. 12. Franks: If they use another roster spot on a Canuck it will be for a goalkeeper as it is a position that is almost exclusively non-import in MLS. He seems as likely for the position as anyone. Another guy who'd be 30 in '07. Depends on if he'd want to be Sutton's potential backup. If Sutton's overseas, I'd say he's the man. The rest of the senior roster will likely be imports. Insert possible Italian, Greek, Scottish, Croatian, Serbian, etc. veteran here in attempt to pander to ethnic communities. Maybe an American or two. Development roster: I'll guess at a few based on them being seniors in college and former national teamers. Some underclassmen or junior national teamers may be eligible if their is a Canadian equivalent of the Generation Addidas program. Most will be non-imports. Josh Wagenaar, Jeffery Gonsalves, Tyler Hemmings, Riley O'Neill, Richard Asante. The other five I'll leave for non-college youngsters. That was kind of fun and not at all scientifically based. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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