Voyageurs Server End Finances - Funding Drive

[Markus]

I didn't know there was a canadian rugby forum, thanks for bringing it to my attention:)

[An Observer]

Made a donation....thanks for the service. As I am a regular user and poster, I have no problem donating as it is certainly worth to me more than a couple of match tickets a year.

[Jarrek]

quote:How does the Canadian Rugby Supporters Forum keep afloat? Do they use the same server as the Voyageurs?

http://www.canadianrugby.ca/forum/

CanadianRugby.ca is privately financed. The owner has made a substantial investment on his part in terms of coming up with products that will hopefully sell on the website. It also receives much less traffic than the Voyageurs.

So far about $350 USD has been raised, not including donations received through mail.

I assume we would need federal incorporation instead of provincial. If someone can spearhead this effort and find out some pricing that would be great.

We can then vote on who to establish as directors. It would be ideal in my opinion if we can charge a minimum yearly fee for membership. It might deter some people from joining, but I really can't see it being done any other way other then this yearly donation thing. Hardly any internet sites can stay afloat without the membership pitching in, especially high volume sites such as ours.

We might all remember how BigSoccer recently had its financial problems, and how they ended up resolving it.

quote:For example, have we done all we can to get more ads on our site? If traffic is high enough to require such an expensive server then you'd think we'd be able to attract more ads? Jarrek, how have we been getting advertisers so far - do they come to us? Maybe we just need a plan of attack here - be more aggressive and approach a bunch of potential advertisers, especially those that already sponsor Canadian soccer in some way.

We all have seen the previous server come under extreme pressure at times where Canada has played a match. A "service unavailable" message often appeared. With this server, it severly slows down, but at least it runs.

We can be more aggressive but someone has to be found willing to do this. I wish to limit my role to webdevelopment/maintenance of the site/forum rather than take on a marketing role.

quote:There really is not much benefit to an official organization. What would be the purpose? What would the group be involved with that does not happen now?

I think the major advantage of setting up formally is the disclosure of finances at year end.

quote:The other thing, which I don't think they realize, legally, Reza owns Canadian-Soccer.com and Jarrek owns TheVoyageurs.com, so they are legally liable for anything that gets posted around here.

Liable to some extent, I assume those disclaimers and all the other legal stuff shields us from that. Or maybe not.

Don't we have any lawyers on this board ?

[Guest HamiltonSteelers]

Do lawyers actually watch and support soccer?

[ray]

So, I should make my cheque out to "The Voyageurs" ?

Thanks.

[Jarrek]

No, make it out to "Jaroslaw Popowicz"

[DJT]

quote:Originally posted by Jarrek

We can then vote on who to establish as directors.

I'd like to hear more about what this really means — what would the general structure be, the general way it would work, what directors do, etc., etc. — before we make any decisions to even go this route.

quote:It would be ideal in my opinion if we can charge a minimum yearly fee for membership.

Do you mean that only paid members would be able to read the forum? post on the forum?

quote:We might all remember how BigSoccer recently had its financial problems, and how they ended up resolving it.

No, I don't remember, since I rarely visit that site. It would be helpful if someone summarized their story here.

quote:We can be more aggressive but someone has to be found willing to do this. I wish to limit my role to webdevelopment/maintenance of the site/forum rather than take on a marketing role.

Yes, certainly, I didn't mean that you would do it (nor I, as I feel like you — which is perhaps a bit telling that almost everyone who has gotten involved in this stuff has wanted to back away). There would have to be a committee of a few people. I just first want to know if it's worth a try, or if you've already done so, but I take it you haven't.

[Kicked]

Regarding membership, I don’t think we’d want to limit access to the website or forum to members only. Casual fans aren’t going to pay. Speaking for myself, I only became a more rabid fan after lurking here for a while. Without free access, I’d still be a closet fan who only catches the odd game on TV that’s advertised (and we all know how often that happens).

[DJT]

I very strongly agree with Kicked. Same thing happened to me.

However, I'd accept making the General/OT section for paid members only, if necessary. The important thing is to keep the Canadian soccer stuff open to all if we want to encourage more people to take an interest in Canadian soccer.

[redhat]

The reality is that this site costs money, and if you want the quality to continue,

we should pay up. I'm suggesting a nominal amount per member; if being a member of the

Spurs club/Man U/Celtic fan clubs cost money, why not the Voyageurs?

Can you imagine NOT having a site like this? It's the only place where we get info about

about MNT players in Germany, the CCC, Scandinavia, Spain, and even Russia. It's THE place

to arrange for bit torrents about ANY Canadian game, updates about stadia, inside politics,

and what's up with Tam, Thunder Dan, or JOey Torchia. We don't get this info from the CSA!

Time to buck up, lads. To those who already donated, thank you -- you won't regret it.

[The Beaver]

Well, if membership had priveleges--beyond being able to access one of the few good soccer sites in the country--then perhaps it would make sense to go that route. But my gut tells me that a membership fee would have a very negative effect.

I suppose the issue comes down to this: What sort of impact do we want this site and this forum to have? If we want to provide information on Canadian soccer and build support widely, I suspect a membership fee is NOT the way to go. But, if we would rather keep this site operational for a handful of fairly devoted soccer fans--those willing to pay up to join--then that is something else entirely.

I appreciate Jarrek and redhat's sentiments--the two of you are always working hard to provide credible and fair solutions, opinions etc--but I'm pretty certain that we do not have the sort of dedicated fan base that Man U has, and as a result I cannot see how a membership fee would do much more than drive away a good chunk of those already posting here, and deter the few that check us out for the first time. I think we need to be as inclusive as possible at this point. We can offer a membership fee when we have more to offer. (Or, if we have more to offer now, then let's do that. For instance, what if membership included access to the site plus a free Voyageur scarf etc etc. I don't know, I'm just tossing this out for discussion.)

Honestly, isn't there other ways to fund this site?

[Cheeta]

Membership is the easiest way as I see. If 40 people aren't willing to buy an annual membership at $24 to keep this site going then I don't know. If you've got to work on the honour system (regarding funds) work on it. It's worked so far. But I see Jarrek's point. Why open yourself to being a target?

Unless more than a couple of people are open to this site evolving beyond what it currently is, which is realy only a forum, then carry on status quo. But at least recongnize those who've contributed to the running of the site in some easy to accomodate but meaningless fashion.

By this recongnition I don't just mean those who've financialy contributed, but also the much abused moderators and what passes for administrators. That's a significant contribution of time.

If it comes to itDO NOT restrict access and participation to the site/forum to paying members.

Maybe (should something come of all this) restrict voting privelages to paying members. But that's as far as I'm willing to take that.

Bit off topic, but my 2 cents...for now.

Otherwise SIGN UP, LADS. $1,000 CANADIAN!!!

[DJT]

Beaver has echoed my feelings. I think we need to keep the forum as inclusive as possible rather than make it only for the already-devoted fans. We should keep it open to people looking to learn about Canadian soccer, because, as has been said, much content here is unique, and without it many people may never become fans (I know I wouldn't have). Then there are players, coaches and others from the soccer community, members of the media, and posters from abroad, including the regulars who provide updates and those who appear only when we play against them — these people aren't going to pay to access the forum. Beaver also hit the nail on the head in explaining why Euro fan clubs are different; in short, we do not play the same role as those fan clubs.

Note that what I'm objecting to is requiring paid membership to access the sections of the forum that are about Canadian soccer. It would be more acceptable if we were to keep those sections open while requiring paid membership to access the general/OT section (and any other non-Canadian-soccer sections we may create in the future). In other words, the non-Canadian-soccer sections would be considered "perks" of paid membership — but I'm not sure there's any point to that because I don't think it would attract any more money than just asking for pure donations with no perks.

I want to address the notion that we absolutely need this amount of money to survive. We don't. We need it only to keep the current dedicated server. If required we can move back to something cheaper (the biggest problem with doing that is traffic during matches, but we should be using the real-time chat at those times regardless (we never tried that when we were on the old server)). Heck, the group survived for years on the free Network54. Of course I think we should try to get the money required to keep the current server, but I would stop short of restricting access in order to do that.

[Jarrek]

quote:I want to address the notion that we absolutely need this amount of money to survive. We don't. We need it only to keep the current dedicated server.

We could move hosting elsewhere, just I don't know if elsewhere will suffice.

[Jarrek]

Thanks to the following:

Payment From Brian R. Oct. 3, 2005 Completed Details $50.00 USD

Payment From Mark A. Oct. 3, 2005 Completed Details $50.00 USD

Payment From Maryanne h. Oct. 2, 2005 Completed Details $25.00 USD

Payment From Mark H. Sep. 30, 2005 Completed Details $10.00 USD

Payment From Geoff W. Sep. 30, 2005 Completed Details $50.00 USD

Payment From Robin B. Sep. 29, 2005 Completed Details $40.00 USD

Payment From Kenneth R. Sep. 29, 2005 Completed Details $25.00 USD

Payment From Jordan F. Sep. 28, 2005 Completed Details $25.00 USD

Payment From Edward S. Sep. 28, 2005 Completed Details $25.00 USD

Payment From Jake C. Sep. 28, 2005 Completed Details $100.00 USD

Your support for the Voyageurs is greatly appreciated !

[Jarrek]

Just letting everyone know that the drive is still on ... we're still about $300 short.

[ted]

quote:Originally posted by Jarrek

Just letting everyone know that the drive is still on ... we're still about $300 short.

About $280 short now that I finally used my PayPal (tgodwin).

[CanadasBest]

It's great to see everyone contributing to this cause. I wonder though if we'd be better suited getting rid of this expensive server. At least until such time we are better organized and more self-sufficient.

[Jarrek]

quote:It's great to see everyone contributing to this cause. I wonder though if we'd be better suited getting rid of this expensive server.

That is one option, but really this is the CHEAPEST and BEST quality dedicated server around.

[SeanKeay]

If this place becomes pay in anyway.... im gone.... plain anad simple. This place has become way to stuffy latly... to many rules to mcuh bull****....

[redhat]

quote:Originally posted by SeanKeay

If this place becomes pay in anyway.... im gone.... plain anad simple. This place has become way to stuffy latly... to many rules to mcuh bull****....

As much as I agree with you, the people that usually complain and

post the BS are usually never the ones that would contribute.

So far it's only voluntary, but I don't see too many people putting in

a measly $5 to support this site. Robert? Luis? etc... If you use

this site, let's make sure it'll be around. As far as I know this

is only the FIRST time in years that Jarrek asked for some cash.

Do we expect Jarrek to PAY and MAINTAIN this site? As for the rules

and stuff, that's for the moderators ...

[SeanKeay]

Jarrek wants way to much money, it had been fine before we switched to a different board and there wasnt much exspense.... i think its garbage that he makes everything so special and then a year later is like we need 1500 bucks.

I just think once the pay board starts its goign to go downhill and less people will come. Plus isnt this board about making the canadian game more accessable to the common person. Not to split them up by having ppl pay.

[Polish_LYNX_Fan]

$1500 Imagine the tifo that we could have bought for the next Home game. WOW. A nice pro made flag would set us back ($300) then a **** load of stremers, cardborad displays, WOW.

[sstackho]

I can't say I recall if cost of a server rental was ever discussed as an issue during the UBB vs. Network 54 debate. I thought the discussion was really just on the forum design.

But then, I think Jarrek moved this board from a shared server to a dedicated server at some point, which would have increased the costs. Was that just due to the "Service Unavailable" messages that were happening during matches?

When this "UBB" board started, I much preferred this board to the old Network54 board. Mainly in style, but also in content. There was so much childish flaming and complaining in the other board - and it mainly seemed to stay there. This new board was a rather mature place to have a discussion (which can be hard to find on the Internet). Sadly, that didn't last. I'm not sure if it was due to a few inflammatory people who decided to move from the other board to this one, but the quality of posts has certainly gone down as of late. And with it, I notice a drop-off in posts from a few people whose posts I always enjoyed.

Sorry, I got off-topic. That last paragraph has nothing to do with server finances. And I don't think there's any way it can be fixed, other than people trying a little bit harder to resist that urge to flame someone that you don't agree with, or when you are being baited.

[sstackho]

I can't say I recall if cost of a server rental was ever discussed as an issue during the UBB vs. Network 54 debate. I thought the discussion was really just on the forum design.

But then, I think Jarrek moved this board from a shared server to a dedicated server at some point, which would have increased the costs. Was that just due to the "Service Unavailable" messages that were happening during matches?

When this "UBB" board started, I much preferred this board to the old Network54 board. Mainly in style, but also in content. There was so much childish flaming and complaining in the other board - and it mainly seemed to stay there. This new board was a rather mature place to have a discussion (which can be hard to find on the Internet). Sadly, that didn't last. I'm not sure if it was due to a few inflammatory people who decided to move from the other board to this one, but the quality of posts has certainly gone down as of late. And with it, I notice a drop-off in posts from a few people whose posts I always enjoyed.

Sorry, I got off-topic. That last paragraph has nothing to do with server finances. And I don't think there's any way it can be fixed, other than people trying a little bit harder to resist that urge to flame someone that you don't agree with, or when you are being baited.