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Owen Hargreaves talks about Canada...


Bertuzzi44
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quote:Originally posted by Daniel

Put this in OT.

I'm surprised that you and your mod colleagues haven't diligently performed their usual cleansing of such unacceptable content; ardent hounds that they are, they cannot leave such posts undisturbed.

Of course, to be consistent, the Jonathan de Guzman post must be moved as well.

BTW, that particular video was downloaded from Owen Hargreave's fan website. It's been available for close to 3 years at that site. The interview was done in the Bayern training grounds.

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I don't hate Hargreaves the man. I just see no point in mentioning him in a forum devoted to Canadian soccer, since he has chosen not to be Canadian.

I'd like to see the word "Hargreaves" added to the list of predefined "dirty words" that are automatically rejected by this forum, so that when anyone types in that "obscene" name, the forum just displays "**********" instead. Come to think of it, that would be rather humorous.

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The thing is if you watch the video its about soccer in Canada so i would say it is relevant. I mean it isn't a video of him talking about how Bayern or England is doing. This video is about growing up in Calgary, going to the stampede, jumping out of a van with his bro to play soccer, how he got scouted at 13 and then went to Germany at 16.

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Its not irrelevant, but as he isn't nor (unlike Jonathan De Guzman) can ever be a "Canadian National Team Player" (as this section of the forum is devoted to, as its title indicates), it is technically speaking in the wrong section. Not that I am losing sleep over it, but neither would I begrudge the mods for moving it to the correct section.

If the younger De Guzman ever chooses to play for Holland & is cap-tied, the same would apply to him. But it doesn't yet. And hopefully it never will.

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quote:Originally posted by Ed

I'm surprised that you and your mod colleagues haven't diligently performed their usual cleansing of such unacceptable content; ardent hounds that they are, they cannot leave such posts undisturbed.

Of course, to be consistent, the Jonathan de Guzman post must be moved as well.

You know, it's posts like this that make me wonder why the mods bother. Keeping the forum organized is a lot of work, for absolutely no renumeration... well besides sarcastic comments like this one.

Have you ever been to an unmoderated forum? Moderation is not 'against free speech', but it keeps posts organized and accessible by the people that want to read them. How'd you like to scroll through pages of crap trying to find the one little bit of news that would interest you?

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But wading through pages of crap is exactly what I often do at this site. I wish you had big flags waving (actually, a nice visual steaming turd would be more appropriate) next to the threads featuring Robert's input.

Why are there 4 threads in this subforum on the non-existent Toronto Stadium, including an 8 page thread on the geography of Toronto?

Posts are moved / merged routinely with no apparent pattern (other than Canucks abroad which I'm ok with) and recently even locked by mods after they have waded in themselves.

And yet none of that bothers me that much. I have been on the quite diligently moderated BigSoccer for many years.

Yet you mention Hargreaves and it's as if you have posted child porn.

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The Hargreaves reactions such Luis' above are annoying as hell. And I agree with Ed, when it comes to that. This particular forum is not reserved exclusively for players with the Canadian national team program, unless John Heyden whatshisname has some caps I am unaware of. OH, for whatever you might think about his football allegiances, is a Canadian. Nevertheless, if the board wants to put Hargreaves topics in the off topic forums go ahead, but I for one would like to see the shyte comments moderated out of a thread whose subject is labelled clearly as this is. I for one am interested in his career even though I regret very much that he doesn't play for us, and think his reasoning, frankly, dumb if he allegedly has any interest in being a canadian. But get over it. For better or worse he is a product of canadian soccer and will, if he chooses, be a Canadian until the day he dies. And I think that qualifies for a canadian soccer board.

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BigSoccer is private company with 140 full and part-time employees and volunteers that manage the site.

The mods around here are fine.

As for Hargreaves, it is what it is. I think we should take advantage of him and use him as an example of our youth system, that we can develop players who are good enough to play for England. The key would be to get one or two who are good enough for England, but choose Canada.

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No it doesn't belong in the National team members forum. Doesn't matter what his passport reads, he flys Saint George's Cross so far as footie is concearned.

Yes, it dose belong in the General/OT Discussion forum. And somehow I recall this vid coming up before and some fun being had at OH's expence regarding Calgary being on the west coast of Canada.

Interesting still though for those who might not have seen it before.

Bit of a nervous chap in front of the camera, but then who isn't?

P.S. And yes I know it's a bit slow around here, but I'll 2nd the motion put forward suggesting those not interested in the topic posted ignore it and move on to something else like cleaning the car or oven or something.

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...yeah nervous is right...I was gonna say that he looked like a hostage held at gunpoint in Iraq or something when he was talking about football in Canada. Seemed to me that he was picking his words very carefully and definitely looked more than a little uncomfortable.

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quote:Originally posted by Dave

I don't hate Hargreaves the man. I just see no point in mentioning him in a forum devoted to Canadian soccer, since he has chosen not to be Canadian.

I'd like to see the word "Hargreaves" added to the list of predefined "dirty words" that are automatically rejected by this forum, so that when anyone types in that "obscene" name, the forum just displays "**********" instead. Come to think of it, that would be rather humorous.

Jarrek did this a few months ago.

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Why is Hargraeves a traitor or not Canadian?

I just to think it was Canada who messed him up not the other way around. I was born here but if I could play for England I would. My answer would be different if I had a chance with the Canadian team and was selected and trained and treated right. Hargreaves was cut from the national team as a youth. I know 3-4 players who made it over him. 2 are in BC finding themselves and 2 others are burnouts. I mean the CSA coaches are to blame for missing this talent. It took 1 scout from Bayern Munich to see him to offer him a chance to play. We had a host full of scouts and coaches miss him. The blame lies with the CSA not Owen. Good on him.

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I can understand if he wants to play for England to further his professional career, or because lets be honest, competition-wise playing for England over Canada is like choosing the EPL over the CSL. Or even if he feels more English than Canadian, fine.

But this, my feelings were hurt, is complete BULLSH*T. It's beyond stupid. And I think it's why a lot of people around here don't like him. Maybe he wasn't good enough at 12 years old or whatever age he was cut from the Canadian team. Obviously whoever cut him thought he wasn't good enough.

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quote:Originally posted by Elias

I can understand if he wants to play for England to further his professional career, or because lets be honest, competition-wise playing for England over Canada is like choosing the EPL over the CSL. Or even if he feels more English than Canadian, fine.

But this, my feelings were hurt, is complete BULLSH*T. It's beyond stupid. And I think it's why a lot of people around here don't like him. Maybe he wasn't good enough at 12 years old or whatever age he was cut from the Canadian team. Obviously whoever cut him thought he wasn't good enough.

Here's a timely quote from the player perspective on playing in Brazile (provided by CanuckOranje in the forum below):

"The Brazilian style, keeping the ball on the ground and building the attack from the back with short passes, has always been my preference. Unfortunately, in Canada the traditional English long-ball game has always been dominant at the national level, with the players selected accordingly."

Might I remind you to:

1. Read the post by 'dalglish07 above and take the time to find out who actually made that team above Hargreaves.

2. The last 3 players cut from that team were Hargreaves, de Guzman and Klukowski. The latter two took a bit of time to get over the slight as well.

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But what you posted Ed, is completely irrelevant to Hargreaves crying about Canada. What style they play, who made the team, it's as important as what colour underwear they wore.

Like I said, maybe he was just not that good at that age, same for the other two you mentioned. As for the players dalglish07 mentioned, so they were early bloomers and then flopped. It happens in all sports. Look at the NHL draft where they are 18 years old and so many times first rounders never make it while guys in the 10th round become stars. And these decisions are made by a hundred (taking all teams into account) professional full-time scouts. Not 2-3 CSA part-timers who pick players after a 2 hour kick-about.

Even worse is the NBA and NFL where they are like 22-23 year olds and they are expected to be immediate pros and so many never make it. It's not that simple.

Sure, it would take me some time to get over it as well. But I wouldn't use it as an excuse.

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quote:Originally posted by Elias

But what you posted Ed, is completely irrelevant to Hargreaves crying about Canada. What style they play, who made the team, it's as important as what colour underwear they wore.

Like I said, maybe he was just not that good at that age, same for the other two you mentioned. As for the players dalglish07 mentioned, so they were early bloomers and then flopped. It happens in all sports. Look at the NHL draft where they are 18 years old and so many times first rounders never make it while guys in the 10th round become stars. And these decisions are made by a hundred (taking all teams into account) professional full-time scouts. Not 2-3 CSA part-timers who pick players after a 2 hour kick-about.

Even worse is the NBA and NFL where they are like 22-23 year olds and they are expected to be immediate pros and so many never make it. It's not that simple.

Sure, it would take me some time to get over it as well. But I wouldn't use it as an excuse.

And where exactly is Hargreaves "crying about Canada"? Certainly not in the video clip cited in this thread.

If you want to talk about irrelevant posts, stick to the topic please. My post was in reply to your suggestion that he may have not been good enough and that he deserved to be cut.

I think his progress (and that of de Guzman and Klukowski) shows Mr Taylor to be a piss poor evaluator of talent (but oddly good enough to be brought BACK from Scotland after his CSA gig to now work with the OSA - sometimes you just have to shake your head and wonder why bother?). That's a logical conclusion. If only one of those three had made it in Europe, I could accept they were late bloomers. But all three? C'mon. If you're going to join the Hargreaves bashers at least do your homework and memorize their standard litany of excuses absolving the clowns in the CSA of any blame.

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I don't know whether he was good enough or not, same for the others (who is successful 10 years on doesn't mean anything). And obviously nobody can defend the CSA or any choices they make. I'm not arguing your points about coaches, styles, selections, etc.

Nor am I really bashing Hargreaves, cause to be honest, I would honestly think twice about who I would play for. Like I said, I have no problem with him if he feels more English, or wants to play there for professional reasons. But lets cut the bull.

Anwyay, dalglish07 started this saying it's Canada's fault. And Hargreaves has been quoted as saying a major part of his decision was that he was cut. Right? Or is that just what people think?

I'm just saying that's bullsh*t. Honestly, what age group was it? It was like under 15 or something wasn't? Gimme a break.

I hold grudges too. But he was cut from some youth team so he won't play for the country later. Honestly, is it not a little silly? Unless there is more to the story.

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quote:Originally posted by Elias

I don't know whether he was good enough or not, same for the others (who is successful 10 years on doesn't mean anything). And obviously nobody can defend the CSA or any choices they make. I'm not arguing your points about coaches, styles, selections, etc.

Nor am I really bashing Hargreaves, cause to be honest, I would honestly think twice about who I would play for. Like I said, I have no problem with him if he feels more English, or wants to play there for professional reasons. But lets cut the bull.

Anwyay, dalglish07 started this saying it's Canada's fault. And Hargreaves has been quoted as saying a major part of his decision was that he was cut. Right? Or is that just what people think?

I'm just saying that's bullsh*t. Honestly, what age group was it? It was like under 15 or something wasn't? Gimme a break.

I hold grudges too. But he was cut from some youth team so he won't play for the country later. Honestly, is it not a little silly? Unless there is more to the story.

Hargreaves has never said a word about his decision being based on being cut from the Cdn youth team. Not a single word. Get your facts straight if you want an argument.

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<my opinion>

Let's face it. Hargreaves took a huge risk when he decided to show up for that WCQ against Germany in 2001. The risk was that he'd get a single cap - and he was put on the field against his German colleagues when the match was well in hand - and might never be called up again. 5-1 final for England.

And now he has 28 caps. Twenty-eight. That's mind-blowing. I'm pretty sure Canada hasn't even played 28 matches since 2001.

He took a risk, and it paid off. He is getting to play high-level international soccer. He played in the World Cup. He played in Euro 2004. His father would have loved it, according to Owen, although he passed away not long before his first cap.

However, he has never caught on with the English. Probably a combination of non-outstanding performances wearing the three lions, the fact that he doesn't play for an English club, and minor xenophobism from the English.

Sven seems to love him, but I would guess that a replacement manager wouldn't pick him. I think that's the advantage of a foreign manager - they are less succeptible to public pressure.

That's not to say I like the guy. But he took a chance, and it paid off personally.

</my opinion> Wow, what a couple of strong drinks will due to one's blabbering skills...

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quote:Originally posted by Ed

Hargreaves has never said a word about his decision being based on being cut from the Cdn youth team. Not a single word. Get your facts straight if you want an argument.

My people never let facts get in the way of an argument.

I thought he eventually did say something (or one of his parents did) about being really upset about being cut? (C'MON PEOPLE where are all the anti-Heargreaves-ites when you need them?)

Anyway, if he is not upset about being cut, that's one more reason NOT to blame the CSA. What are they suppose to do? Cap every 12 year-old in the nation? Well I guess they could spot talent, that would be a start, right?

As for calling him a traitor? He choose an other country over Canada, I think that's the definition.

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quote:Originally posted by sstackho

<my opinion>

Let's face it. Hargreaves took a huge risk when he decided to show up for that WCQ against Germany in 2001. The risk was that he'd get a single cap - and he was put on the field against his German colleagues when the match was well in hand - and might never be called up again. 5-1 final for England.

And now he has 28 caps. Twenty-eight. That's mind-blowing. I'm pretty sure Canada hasn't even played 28 matches since 2001.

He took a risk, and it paid off. He is getting to play high-level international soccer. He played in the World Cup. He played in Euro 2004. His father would have loved it, according to Owen, although he passed away not long before his first cap.

However, he has never caught on with the English. Probably a combination of non-outstanding performances wearing the three lions, the fact that he doesn't play for an English club, and minor xenophobism from the English.

Sven seems to love him, but I would guess that a replacement manager wouldn't pick him. I think that's the advantage of a foreign manager - they are less succeptible to public pressure.

That's not to say I like the guy. But he took a chance, and it paid off personally.

</my opinion> Wow, what a couple of strong drinks will due to one's blabbering skills...

Uhh.... his father is pretty well actually. It's his English GRANDfather that passed away shortly before he was capped (IIRC).

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