Starting goalie ?

[stef-4]

P.A.O.K. has 7.200 season tickets so against Larisa were 16.000 fans

[Loud Mouth Soup]

quote:Originally posted by Gordon

I don't think Sutton did anything to "win" the number 1 (other than play well at the club level) nor did Lars do anything to lose it. The same situation applies now. Sutton hasn't done anything lose the number one, nor has he shown anything that suggests he is a "must have" number 1 either. I don't see any seperation between the two at all and think that Lars, in season, is the obvious invite. I called for a real competition for the number 1 and a look at all of the contenders as well. I am making the same call now. Sutton hasn't earned number 1 and he hasn't lost it either. The only argument against Lars was his club situation. That has been temporarily rectified and barring a sudden collapse I can't see how that does not become permanent. As far as I am concerned, the number 1 is still up for grabs.

Bull. Lars was riding the bench, barely playing Reserves matches (10 last season at Spurs, IIRC). Greg was playing a full seaosn in the A-League, setting records for clean sheets and winning a league title.

He won it. Lars lost it.

Number 1 is Greg's to lose at this point. He earned it by playing well for the Impact and answering FY's call to play for Canada (other than when FY agreed this year to let him stay due to the playoffs).

[Loud Mouth Soup]

quote:Originally posted by Gordon

I don't think Sutton did anything to "win" the number 1 (other than play well at the club level) nor did Lars do anything to lose it. The same situation applies now. Sutton hasn't done anything lose the number one, nor has he shown anything that suggests he is a "must have" number 1 either. I don't see any seperation between the two at all and think that Lars, in season, is the obvious invite. I called for a real competition for the number 1 and a look at all of the contenders as well. I am making the same call now. Sutton hasn't earned number 1 and he hasn't lost it either. The only argument against Lars was his club situation. That has been temporarily rectified and barring a sudden collapse I can't see how that does not become permanent. As far as I am concerned, the number 1 is still up for grabs.

Bull. Lars was riding the bench, barely playing Reserves matches (10 last season at Spurs, IIRC). Greg was playing a full seaosn in the A-League, setting records for clean sheets and winning a league title.

He won it. Lars lost it.

Number 1 is Greg's to lose at this point. He earned it by playing well for the Impact and answering FY's call to play for Canada (other than when FY agreed this year to let him stay due to the playoffs).

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Loud Mouth Soup

Agreed. And as for the argument in regards to who did what to win the job and lose the job, I would point to that friendly versus Portugal. As much as I have liked Lars since with that GC performance versus the US in 2002, there is no way Sutton or any other Cnd USL keeper would have looked as bad as Lars did on the first ( I think it was the first ) goal conceded from that long a range. That goal made us look pretty amateurish. IMO its been a gradual decline with lars from 2002 to to that game and I think that FY saw the writting on the wall regarding Lars on that goal. From that point onward, I thought that it was definitely time to look at other options for GK's.

Whereas for Sutton, I'd like to know of one goal he conceded in a MNT uniform that he could have had a chance to stop? Plus, Unlike what we saw from Stamatopoulos against Spain, Sutton does not spill the ball.

[denis]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

Not to knock Sutton, and correct me if I'm wrong, but the goal by Cuba in the Gold Cup was from a rebound off Sutton. If I remember correctly (to his defense) he was alone against 2 attackers. It would have been difficult to save, but not impossible.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

quote:Originally posted by stef-4

P.A.O.K. has 7.200 season tickets so against Larisa were 16.000 fans

That clears up my doubt and the big divergence with the figures. If that site quoted on Greece says Paok had 8,000 odd on the weekend vs. Larisa, and their site said 15,000 or so, and the season tickets are 7,200, then we might conclude that the attendances shown in the comparison are for walk up only in Greece stadiums.

I know that in some stadiums in Spain season ticket holders just show a card and walk in, even without turning turnstiles, while walk up buyers have tickets read and are counted as they go in.

[Gordon]

quote:Originally posted by Loud Mouth Soup

Bull. Lars was riding the bench, barely playing Reserves matches (10 last season at Spurs, IIRC). Greg was playing a full seaosn in the A-League, setting records for clean sheets and winning a league title.

He won it. Lars lost it.

Number 1 is Greg's to lose at this point. He earned it by playing well for the Impact and answering FY's call to play for Canada (other than when FY agreed this year to let him stay due to the playoffs).

Bull. Tottenham is so far above Montreal in level Lar was gettng nose bleeds. Sutton has been nothing more that competent for Canada, hasn't solidified anything with his play and the best we can pin on lArs is one bad goal. He has to actually earn the number 1 head to head, in my opinion. Same goes for Lars.

[Gordon]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

Agreed. And as for the argument in regards to who did what to win the job and lose the job, I would point to that friendly versus Portugal. As much as I have liked Lars since with that GC performance versus the US in 2002, there is no way Sutton or any other Cnd USL keeper would have looked as bad as Lars did on the first ( I think it was the first ) goal conceded from that long a range. That goal made us look pretty amateurish. IMO its been a gradual decline with lars from 2002 to to that game and I think that FY saw the writting on the wall regarding Lars on that goal. From that point onward, I thought that it was definitely time to look at other options for GK's.

Whereas for Sutton, I'd like to know of one goal he conceded in a MNT uniform that he could have had a chance to stop? Plus, Unlike what we saw from Stamatopoulos against Spain, Sutton does not spill the ball.

One can not decide Number 1 on the basis of one bad goal or we'll never have a number 1 keeper. Every keeper lets in a bad goal from time to time. As for amatuerish, the roster of keepers who have made France, Brazil, England, Italy etc. look amateurish then would fill a hall of fame. And seriously all, go back to the NI game, yes a shutout (with zero chances against), but there was a keeper looking gangly and amatuerish if I ever saw one. No, Number 1 has not been earned by anyone yet IMO. Sutton hasn't been bad for Canada. Competent I guess. And his last club game shows he is not perfect.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

Regarless of who is no 1 right now, if you want to be Canada's starting keeper I think you should come out when the team plays. Neither Sutton nor Lars did so. The former would have missed a match. Lars had nothing to miss. This is one of the reasons why the starting spot is not clear right now, nobody wants it that badly it seems.

[youllneverwalkalone]

I wonder if the UEFA performances by Hirschfeld and Fernandes have put any pressure on Sutton to get out of the USL during the upcoming window to Europe, or to sign on with the MLS. Yallop is loyal to his boys so you'd have to think Sutton's MNT position is one of his cards to play in his professional pursuits. However, if Dani and Lars do well in the group stage, I don't see how Yallop can ignore or bench them -as the respective case may be. Hopefully Sutton has taken note and will move on to bigger things. Ipswich definitely need a keeper...

[Guest Jeffery S.]

The dumb thing about Sutton is that if he had been in Santander and had come up with a big game, he would have set himself up for a possible interest from Spanish clubs. And his transfer cost would be negligible if not near nothing. And he'd be out of contract at the end of the season I imagine, so free to sign.

He would not have walked into a first team in Primera, but there were real possibilities for a chance at Segunda, depending how on the ball his agent might be.

[loyola]

It's too bad the Impact decided that Sutton would not go to Santander, I also think that he could of got some nice exposure with a strong game.

As for DF he needs to play more and get more pro experience as a #1, the PAOK fans are speaking about some "silly" mistakes that he makes quite often but they are all saying that he has the talent and size to become a good keeper. So take your time and learn.

I don't understand why people here think that Lars lost the #1 spot, he nver had it in the past year.

Firt 7 WCQ: Onstad in goal

last WCQ: Lars

NI: Sutton

Portugal: Lars

Friendly + GC: Sutton

Spain: Stama

[Darcy Fett]

The only reason Onstad played instead of Lars is because Yallop coached Onstad in the MLS...Yallop is a coach that likes to go with his old friends...In my opinion Sutton needs to get out of the USL and prove himself at the real level...The only goalie that has proved themselves since Forrest is Lars with his performance at the Gold Cup, I have yet to see Sutton play a truly stellar game with Canada and if Lars plays well in this group stage there should be no reason he doesnt get a chance at the #1 for Canada, well unless FY decides to keep going with a goalie from a league that doesnt compare to anything in Europe...I mean I hate to call Sutton second rate but the league he plays in doesnt exactly support his cause

[Darcy Fett]

Also for all those people saying that the goalies have not wanted to join the National team for friendlies that is a load of crap, a lot of the time their team will not want to release them or the goalies themselves choose not to go because they are nursing a form of injury and do not want to risk further injury and possibly their job

[imported_n/a1394647443]

quote:Originally posted by Darcy Fett

Also for all those people saying that the goalies have not wanted to join the National team for friendlies that is a load of crap, a lot of the time their team will not want to release them or the goalies themselves choose not to go because they are nursing a form of injury and do not want to risk further injury and possibly their job

Who's saying that? I can't recall a goalie bowing out for what wasn't a reasonable excuse. Frank will even not ask them to play to help solidify their club positions.

Your comments on Sutton and Onstad are off base. Pat was the deserving starter but never seemed to be consistantly good for Canada. Onstad was a regular starter at a reasonable level. He did play two great World Cup qualifiers though, with the the rest fair to poor. Doesn't matter what league Sutton is in he is a fine goalie and he's proven it.

O/T As for Kenny and his Spain bobbles, I watched the game a couple of times and he didn't bobble the ball until about the 68th minute, just before the goal. My memory is fading now on whether it was the goal or not but one he "bobbled" I don't think he even touched the ball. He came out and I think he didn't get the ball but got the legs of the Spanish player so technically he didn't bobble the ball.

I have to say that I was impressed with Kenny who like Sutton had a pretty composed demeanor, something missing from the Canadian goal for a while.

[Gian-Luca]

I think on only one occasion against Spain would I have criticized Kenny for not holding on to the ball, the one where he flopped on it and missed it like it was a bar of soap (as Craig Forrest said). Other than that he had to deal with shots that bounced nastily in front of him and the main thing was, which people are seemingly overlooking, is that he was in the right position to get his body behind the ball to make the save, which he did indeed do. I'd rather see the ball bounce off Kenny & out than slip past him into the net.

[Guest Ed]

Onstad is a disaster waiting to happen on the international front. Always has been. I agree with Darcy. Onstad, Watson and Pesch were all a liability last summer. But they started (and Onstad was even named Captain). Old boys through and through.

[imported_n/a1394647443]

Let me get this straight. FY is supposed to choose a bench warmer (who until this year, hadn't played more than two back to back games in how many years) over an MLS All-Star. Kind of stretches credulity, if one thinks about it.

Nice to pick on Watson as per usual but I don't think he was the disaster the anti-Watson people hoped for.

Now if Tam had played we would have made the hex.

[Guest Ed]

quote:Originally posted by Joe MacCarthy

Let me get this straight. FY is supposed to choose a bench warmer (who until this year, hadn't played more than two back to back games in how many years) over an MLS All-Star. Kind of stretches credulity, if one thinks about it.

Nice to pick on Watson as per usual but I don't think he was the disaster the anti-Watson people hoped for.

Now if Tam had played we would have made the hex.

The answer to your first question is Yes.

Watson couldn't keep up with the play in Game 1 and handed Honduras the tying goal in Game 4.

We've been over the Tam comments before. I have never suggested he would have been a game saver. Would he have been a better choice than Pizzolitto, Watson, Simpson, Peters for our first couple of games? Yes.

Talk about twisting the knife when T&T are about to face f*ing Guatemala for that remaining 1/2 spot. Yeesh.

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by Ed

Talk about twisting the knife when T&T are about to face f*ing Guatemala for that remaining 1/2 spot. Yeesh.

Yes, it's painful that such sub-par teams are fighting over a spot which we (talent-wise) should have laid claim to.

But no excuses, Canada was even more sub-par last year.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

quote:Originally posted by Darcy Fett

Also for all those people saying that the goalies have not wanted to join the National team for friendlies that is a load of crap, a lot of the time their team will not want to release them or the goalies themselves choose not to go because they are nursing a form of injury and do not want to risk further injury and possibly their job

Sorry, but I think the question is legitimate. Why didn't Lars show up for the Spain match? Wouldn't you agree that if he really wanted to start over the guys doing the work over the past two years he should have made an effort?

Since you are a family member, maybe you have inside information. Did Lars have a good excuse to not go to the Canada camp in Madrid and on to Santander? If he did, you may be right in considering our insinuations crap. If he didn't, maybe you are wrong to think he should walk into the starting spot on the basis of two or three months of regular club play in the last 3 years.

[bettermirror]

sutton for sure. but he needs to go up a level.

[youllneverwalkalone]

As much as Boba is obviously biased, Lars is getting ripped both ways if people are criticizing him for not showing up for Spain. I assumed Yallop didn't even call because he wanted him to get some club matches under him. I'm even reasonably sure FY said as much before Hirschfeld signed for Tromso. The guy needs to play club football -it's Fernandes who should have gone to Spain. I know he wasn't called, but it's too bad their aren't any media who give a crap because DF should fire a shot at Yallop in the press for not giving him a chance in that match.

[Gordon]

I actually can't blame Hirschfeld for not showing even if he was asked. He has been bouncing around for a year looking for a regular gig, has a short term contract and has been prone to injury so why run the risk in a friendly? On the other hand, were he established at Tromoso then I think he'd be deserving of some stick from not coming. Sutton is a little less clear for me, but USL does not respect international dates, IIRC, so, unlike the guys in Euro leagues, there is an impact (no pun intended) on his club side, and like Cheeta, I think there are times when a player has to put his livlihood (club) first.

[Gordon]

quote:Originally posted by Joe MacCarthy

Let me get this straight. FY is supposed to choose a bench warmer (who until this year, hadn't played more than two back to back games in how many years) over an MLS All-Star. Kind of stretches credulity, if one thinks about it.

I don't think it stretches credulity at all. A comparable for me would be suggesting that the ECHL (or AHL for that matter depending upon your opinion of MLS) All-star should start ahead of the Maple Leaf's back-up simply because theya re playing regularly. If someone was to suggest that, they'd be scoffed off the board, yet it is routinely put forward on this board in favour of keepers playing at lower levels.

Now I don't happen to think it is all cut and dried about level of play just because so much of that can be determined by opportunity, passport and other factors thay transcend relative ability. My preference for Lars over Onstat in 2004 was simply because I believed that Onstat would perform exactly as he did: he wouldn't steal us a result, and was more likely to gaffe away a result. Both happened. And while I am of the opinion that there are elements of the game that both Onstat and Sutton have over Lars - I think Lars is behind both in dealing with the ariel end of the game frex (although Lars has inproved that quite a bit since his intial GC) - Lar has a big advantage in shot stopping, and against CONCACAF that is what we needed (and continue to need). Latin teams do not rely on the ariel game anywhere near as much as, say, some European teams might, and their opportunities against us usually come as a result of a defensive breakdown and no amount of experience, positioning or tactical awareness is going to substitute for the ability to pull a save out of one's a$$. And the guy most likely to do that was, and continues to be Lars Hirschfeld. That is apparently a strength too of Stamatopolous, although I have only reports from Sweden to go on. It wasn't a strength of an aged Pat Onstat, and I have not heard much about Sutton that suggests it is for him either. Sutton, however, has been competent in goal. And I can't say that he has done anything to deminish my confidence in him as the Canadian keeper. But I still am not convinced that he is the best we have (nor for that matter can I say that about anyone, although I do have a preference for Lars for his shotstopping ability) which is why I think that Yallop has to spend the next two years finding out who his best keeper really is so that by the latter part of 2007 any debate over who is number 1 is of the US ilk, where more than one quality keeper has emerged, and all of the options are pretty attractive.