Starting goalie ?

[Daniel]

Yeah, hope we see 2 keepers against Lux.

[Daniel]

Yeah, hope we see 2 keepers against Lux.

[Winnipeg Fury]

Fantastic news regarding DF breaking into the first team at PAOK, but he's only played a few games and taking him away from the club any time soon would be a huge mistake. He needs to solidify his starting position at PAOK and the season has only just begun. If he continues on his present course he will be challenging for Canada's starting position before long. The best thing Yallop can do to support DF in the near term is to leave him at PAOK, and perhaps give him a phone call of encouragement. Let him know he's in Canada's plans and is on the radar screen.

Both Lars and Kenny will be without a contract in the coming months, so we will have to see where both end up. It's conceivable that Kenny will be playing against DF in the coming months.

Sutton has the starting position and it's his to lose. With all three goalies (Lars, Kenny, DF) playing great at the club level, Sutton will hopefully follow suit and will be heading out on trial soon.

[loyola]

It's very nice to see all of our keepers playing and doing well, Lars, DF, Stama and even Bergovic is seeing some PT.

I think FY has to find a starting keeper in the next year and then play him a lot in 2007 so he'll be ready for 2008 (I could say the same thing for every position). As for now Sutton is our #1, I think that he neeeds to move to a better level(Scandinavia, MLS or some other european leagues) if he wants to be our #1 in 2008.

I think FY should call Sutton and DF for the Lux game and give them an half. Since it's an international date I don't think it will hurt DF. On the other side, since Kenny did well against Spain it would be nice to see him again.......and what about Lars performance with Tromso.........wow we'll have a nice fight for the starting position.

[Darcy Fett]

I think weith lasrs' performance against galatasaray he deserves a shot at #1....everybody knows his performance in the gold cup in the past and now they can see what he has done in the UEFA...Dani has no caps for Canada and Sutton plays in the USL...if Sutton wants to be named Canada's #1 he needs to get a starting job in Europe, in my eye the USL does not compete with Europe, its like comparing the starting goalies in the WHL with backup goalies in the NHL.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

quote:Originally posted by Darcy Fett

I think weith lasrs' performance against galatasaray he deserves a shot at #1....everybody knows his performance in the gold cup in the past and now they can see what he has done in the UEFA...Dani has no caps for Canada and Sutton plays in the USL...if Sutton wants to be named Canada's #1 he needs to get a starting job in Europe, in my eye the USL does not compete with Europe, its like comparing the starting goalies in the WHL with backup goalies in the NHL.

This basically sounds right to me for now.

[loyola]

I'm not so sure a couple of good games should put Lars at #1, you need more than that, but it should put him back in competition for the spot. Sutton is good enough for Scandinavia too I feel, he's too good for the USL(except for one mistake) but like I've said if he doesn't move to an higher level until January I think he should'nt be our #1 if the others keepers continue to play in Greece, Norway and Sweeden.

[Winnipeg Fury]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

I'm not so sure a couple of good games should put Lars at #1, you need more than that, but it should put him back in competition for the spot. Sutton is good enough for Scandinavia too I feel, he's too good for the USL(except for one mistake) but like I've said if he doesn't move to an higher level until January I think he should'nt be our #1 if the others keepers continue to play in Greece, Norway and Sweeden.

A couple of good games for TIL certainly does not mean that Lars is handed the starting position for Canada, and I think the same goes for DF at PAOK. Yallop was correct in telling Lars to sort out his professional game and I think the same applies to all our goalies. Unless Lars has his contract extended at TIL in the coming weeks, he may very well find himself on trial somewhere in November. After TIL's huge UEFA upset and his strong play domestically in Norway, I have no doubt a number of clubs will be keen for his services.

The difference between DF and Lars is that DF has yet to recieve the opportunity to play for Canada, while Lars has had more than his fair share in the past. That said, for DF's sake, I would leave him in Greece for the coming months.

Kenny's experience surpasses all our current goalies. While DF has had a few starts for PAOK, Kenny started for 1.5 years in the Greek First Division with Kalamata. Kenny's consistent strong play in Europe, and solid outing vs Spain should also keep him in contention for another Canada cap. But again, Kenny will be without a contract and that's something that FY will have to consider for the Lux match.

The same applies to Sutton. We all hope he is on trial and hopefully quickly signed in Europe, so the Lux match may interfere with Sutton's plans to secure his professional game.

In conclusion, I don't think FY will be playing Canada's 'best goalie vs Lux, but which ever goalie can actually make the match.

[Gordon]

I don't think Sutton did anything to "win" the number 1 (other than play well at the club level) nor did Lars do anything to lose it. The same situation applies now. Sutton hasn't done anything lose the number one, nor has he shown anything that suggests he is a "must have" number 1 either. I don't see any seperation between the two at all and think that Lars, in season, is the obvious invite. I called for a real competition for the number 1 and a look at all of the contenders as well. I am making the same call now. Sutton hasn't earned number 1 and he hasn't lost it either. The only argument against Lars was his club situation. That has been temporarily rectified and barring a sudden collapse I can't see how that does not become permanent. As far as I am concerned, the number 1 is still up for grabs.

As for Fernandes, being older, and now having the confidence of his club to get the start in key games, is in mix, and has passed any of the NCAA keepers, Franks and any other USL starter/back-up in terms of getting the next call to a Canadian camp.

I think Hirschfeld and Fernandes are the duo for Luxembourg. Sutton and Stamtopolous are in what is essentailly a 4 keeper mix. Fernandes may be the most tenuous of the lot, as he hasn't done it over the longer haul, but his accomplishment must be recognized by a senior team call up.

[Winnipeg Fury]

quote:Originally posted by Gordon

I don't think Sutton did anything to "win" the number 1 (other than play well at the club level) nor did Lars do anything to lose it. The same situation applies now. Sutton hasn't done anything lose the number one, nor has he shown anything that suggests he is a "must have" number 1 either. I don't see any seperation between the two at all and think that Lars, in season, is the obvious invite. I called for a real competition for the number 1 and a look at all of the contenders as well. I am making the same call now. Sutton hasn't earned number 1 and he hasn't lost it either. The only argument against Lars was his club situation. That has been temporarily rectified and barring a sudden collapse I can't see how that does not become permanent. As far as I am concerned, the number 1 is still up for grabs.

As for Fernandes, being older, and now having the confidence of his club to get the start in key games, is in mix, and has passed any of the NCAA keepers, Franks and any other USL starter/back-up in terms of getting the next call to a Canadian camp.

I think Hirschfeld and Fernandes are the duo for Luxembourg. Sutton and Stamtopolous are in what is essentailly a 4 keeper mix. Fernandes may be the most tenuous of the lot, as he hasn't done it over the longer haul, but his accomplishment must be recognized by a senior team call up.

Why potentially put DF in a tough situation at PAOK ? He's only played a few first team matches with the club and PAOK may not be pleased with his departure, regardless of whether it is an international date. DF could just as easily find himself on the bench at PAOK, so I don't see the point in calling him up for Luxembourg.

The Greek clubs have proven completely unsympathetic to our players. Both Kappos and Stamatopolous were crucified by their respective Greek clubs (AEK, Kalamata) when it came time to play for Canada. International dates meant nothing.

All that matters is that DF is part of the national team mix. Pulling him away from the club at this point will be counter-productive, especially with other viable opotions that would equally benefit from the Luxembourg match.

I think FY calling DF to acknowledge his fine performance at PAOK, and telling him that they are watching him, but don't want to disrupt his early success at the club, would be the smart move for Luxembourg (and that is assuming that DF would agree to leave the club for the Luxembourg match).

[Kurosawa1555362267]

It's fun to see that the situation is wide open for the next round of World Cup qualifying. We have Stamatopoulos, Fernandes, Sutton and Hirschfield who should be considered now but in 2-3 years we could also add the names of Olivieri, Franks, Waagenar and Begovic to the mix. This is starting to look really interesting. I just hope that Frank Yallop will be open minded enough to take the time to look at everyone before taking a decision, and that he will give the starting goalie position to the best player at the start of qualifying even if he now he seems to prefer Sutton.

[Guest Ed]

quote:Originally posted by Winnipeg Fury

Why potentially put DF in a tough situation at PAOK ? He's only played a few first team matches with the club and PAOK may not be pleased with his departure, regardless of whether it is an international date. DF could just as easily find himself on the bench at PAOK, so I don't see the point in calling him up for Luxembourg.

The Greek clubs have proven completely unsympathetic to our players. Both Kappos and Stamatopolous were crucified by their respective Greek clubs (AEK, Kalamata) when it came time to play for Canada. International dates meant nothing.

All that matters is that DF is part of the national team mix. Pulling him away from the club at this point will be counter-productive, especially with other viable opotions that would equally benefit from the Luxembourg match.

I think FY calling DF to acknowledge his fine performance at PAOK, and telling him that they are watching him, but don't want to disrupt his early success at the club, would be the smart move for Luxembourg (and that is assuming that DF would agree to leave the club for the Luxembourg match).

I totally agree. I think the Luxembourg gig will be the last stop on the Frank Yallop Experience tour anyway. What matters is that Thunder Dan has to know he's in the mix for 2010 qualifying.

[Metro]

quote:Originally posted by Winnipeg Fury

The Greek clubs have proven completely unsympathetic to our players. Both Kappos and Stamatopolous were crucified by their respective Greek clubs (AEK, Kalamata) when it came time to play for Canada. International dates meant nothing.

Not quite. Kappos was crucified by AEK because he wasn't good enough. You may be on the ball with Stamatopoulos, however.

Regarding Fernandes' situation, I agree with you. He's likely on a short leash. Kyriakos Tohouroglou is a long time veteran of the team as well as as one of the two assistant captains. Furthermore, the Executive Board of PAOK demand immediate results.

Having said that, PAOK may not have a problem with Fernandes leaving for Luxembourg. He's not the only international on the squad.

[Winnipeg Fury]

quote:Originally posted by Metro

Not quite. Kappos was crucified by AEK because he wasn't good enough. You may be on the ball with Stamatopoulos, however.

Regarding Fernandes' situation, I agree with you. He's likely on a short leash. Kyriakos Tohouroglou is a long time veteran of the team as well as as one of the two assistant captains. Furthermore, the Executive Board of PAOK demand immediate results.

Having said that, PAOK may not have a problem with Fernandes leaving for Luxembourg. He's not the only international on the squad.

At the time, Kappos was playing in the first team with AEK.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the papers in Greece branded Kappos a 'traitor' for considering to play for Canada. It would be interesting to see if someone could pull those old threads off the archives. It was the greatest roasting any Canuck has ever taken from the media.

[loyola]

http://www.rds.ca/impact/chroniques/188898.html

Sorry for those of you who can't read french but in this article Sutton is saying that he's thinking of staying in MTL unless he receive an "incredible" offer. I don't know what an "incredible" offer is for him but I hope that if a Norwegian club calls him an offer him to be their #1 he'll say yes or an MLS club.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

I agree that both Lars and Fernandes are coming into a positive club situation just recently, Lars as he signed a few months back, Daniel as they season just started, they dumped their coach, and he was put in as starter. In any case, if Tromso can stay in top flight Norway and Paok at least do what they do normally in Greece (UEFA qualifiers) then that sets us up for two strong Euro club keepers into 2006.

The advantage Daniel would have for late winter, early spring, is that he'll be active, while Lars, Kenny and Sutton will all be in off season until they start warming up, guess that would be late Feb.

Regarding Kenny, for all the positive things I saw vs. Spain, the fact is he lets in tons of goals for his club. They are the worst of the teams not in relegation zone. This is also his third year straight in danger of being relegated. He doesn't really have a club level or club performance that would indicate he is on the par with the other two, or even Sutton. Hell, the Impact are a much bigger draw than almost any side in Sweden 2nd tier. I doubt there is a step up in play from USL 1st Div to Sweden 2nd div.

[youllneverwalkalone]

quote:Originally posted by Winnipeg Fury

At the time, Kappos was playing in the first team with AEK.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the papers in Greece branded Kappos a 'traitor' for considering to play for Canada. It would be interesting to see if someone could pull those old threads off the archives. It was the greatest roasting any Canuck has ever taken from the media.

I didn't realize his name was Danil Fernandos?

[Winnipeg Fury]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

I agree that both Lars and Fernandes are coming into a positive club situation just recently, Lars as he signed a few months back, Daniel as they season just started, they dumped their coach, and he was put in as starter. In any case, if Tromso can stay in top flight Norway and Paok at least do what they do normally in Greece (UEFA qualifiers) then that sets us up for two strong Euro club keepers into 2006.

The advantage Daniel would have for late winter, early spring, is that he'll be active, while Lars, Kenny and Sutton will all be in off season until they start warming up, guess that would be late Feb.

Regarding Kenny, for all the positive things I saw vs. Spain, the fact is he lets in tons of goals for his club. They are the worst of the teams not in relegation zone. This is also his third year straight in danger of being relegated. He doesn't really have a club level or club performance that would indicate he is on the par with the other two, or even Sutton. Hell, the Impact are a much bigger draw than almost any side in Sweden 2nd tier. I doubt there is a step up in play from USL 1st Div to Sweden 2nd div.

I agree completely that if DF is playing first team and our other goalies are in the off-season, then ideally DF should get the starting nod.

The Impact are a bigger draw than almost the entire Greek First Division (including PAOK) as well as most clubs in the Norwegian Premier.

I'm not sure you can compare club level performance. DF has played 5 first team matches in his life, compared to Kenny's 5 or 6 seasons as starting goalie in the Greek and Swedish First & Second Divisions. Professionally, DF is an infant and has a long road ahead of him. Despite being in Europe for a number of years, he is only now starting to play. If he can maintain his starting position with PAOK over the long haul and get a season under his belt, then he should be on his way both professionally and internationally. That said, he could just as easily find himself on the bench for the rest of the season.

Kenny on the other hand is a seasoned professional who has consistently been #1 on his respective team. Like most first team professionals, Kenny has experienced many ups and downs over the years. Kenny has chosen to stay busy between the pipes, instead of making more money to possibly sit on the bench. His current level of play in Sweden is probably not much better than USL, but his resume far surpasses that. Most importantly, he is very happy in Sweden and enjoys keeping busy in goal.

As of today we have 4 goalies all vying for the #1 spot. All our goalies are playing first team action and playing well. Six months from now, that scenerio could be completely different. Yallop now has a bit of wiggle room, and is no longer reliant on one goalie (ie, Onstad).

Nobody touches Craig Forrest, but in many ways Canada is better off today due to our better depth at the position.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

I agree with W-Fury that whatever comes about, we are probably a few years away from having another Forrest, and I say that in the hope that one of the promising keepers becomes top class in the next few seasons. What we have now is reliable, but nothing extraordinary, we don't have a keeper to really win us matches and inspire us, a leader. And we could do with one.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

quote:Originally posted by Winnipeg Fury

The Impact are a bigger draw than almost the entire Greek First Division (including PAOK) as well as most clubs in the Norwegian Premier.

Paok had a bad gate yesterday against a weak Greek team: 15,000 fans. Which makes this above comment is just plain silly. Check the stadium, and watch for normal gates in league and UEFA Cup group play. Crap stadium they have too: http://www.paokfc.gr/facilities.jsp

[Winnipeg Fury]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

Paok had a bad gate yesterday against a weak Greek team: 15,000 fans. Which makes this above comment is just plain silly. Check the stadium, and watch for normal gates in league and UEFA Cup group play. Crap stadium they have too: http://www.paokfc.gr/facilities.jsp

Well here's the gates this past weekend in the Greece First Division:  

A Division

Day 5 Attend.

Akratitos - Ionikos 204

Iraklis - Apollon Kalamaria 2,651

PAOK - Larisa - 8,841

AEK - Olympiakos - 34,842

Levadiakos - Panionios 463

Kallithea - Panathinaikos 2,007

AEK and Olympiakos would not normally draw anywhere near that amount if it weren't a derby match involving the big three. In fact, I stand behind my 'silly' comment, as the Impact (and Whitecaps for that matter) outdraw the vast majority of the Greek First Division.

In fact, I will bet you right now that the Impact will have a better average league attendance than PAOK. The only club that might give Montreal a run for their money will be newly promoted Larisa.

[Grizzly]

Some examples of Greek attendance. Last year they were quite a bit above USDL1 (though still below what I would have expected) but in many previous years have been arround USD1 level. Norway in contrast has consistently much higher attendance than either Greece or USLD1, this year with a league average of over 9000 per game. Alternatively I think the Greek league is probably far superior in playing level than either Norway or USD1 although there is probably great disparity between the upper and lower table teams. In comparing the attendance levels one also has to consider that the European figures are probably actual paid attendance that shows up for the game. In Montreal several thousand free tickets are given out for each game of which probably no more than half actually show up but yet these are counted in the attendance figures. This can be seen in the number of empty seats at supposedly sold out games and the ease with which one can always buy free tickets from scalpers before each game. From other posters on the board it seems like inflated attendance numbers is quite common throughout the USD1.

Ethniki A 2004-2005

Club Average vs '05 Highest

1 AEK Athina 26.928 +++,+% 63.129

2 Olympiakos SF Pireas 20.368 154,3% 31.081

3 AO Ergotelis Iraklio Kriti 9.716 780,1% 27.500

4 Panathinaikos AO Athina 8.101 - 8,5% 14.860

5 AS Aris Thessaloniki 6.400 242,7% 11.355

6 PAOK Thessaloniki 5.705 -34,9% 23.950

7 AS Iraklis Thessaloniki 4.484 124,8% 15.700

8 PAE Xanthi AO 2.791 60,6% 5.947

9 OFI Iraklio Kriti 2.394 31,0% 5.537

10 AO Kerkyra 1.448 - 5,7% 3.600

11 AO Apollon Kalamarias Thessal.1.369 160,3% 2.903

12 PAE Chalkidona NE Neapolis 1.214 51,8% 3.877

13 PAE Kallithea Athina 1.173 -12,0% 2.557

14 AO Ioanikos Nikaias 1.103 - 9,9% 2.760

15 Neos Panionios Smyrnis Athina 1.004 -47,8% 2.671

16 PAE Aigaleo Athina 908 -12,4% 2.969

Total 5.944 110,1% 63.129

Ethniki A 2003-2004

Club Average vs'03 Highest

1 Panathinaikos AO Athina 8.853 9,5% 13.416

2 PAOK Thessaloniki 8.761 24,0% 24.829

3 Olympiakos SF Pireas 8.009 - 0,9% 11.346

4 AS Iraklis Thessaloniki 1.995 - 5,7% 4.677

5 AEK Athina 1.946 -62,4% 9.472

6 Neos Panionios Smyrnis Athina 1.923 -55,1% 4.657

7 AS Aris Thessaloniki 1.867 -58,4% 3.849

8 OFI Iraklio Kriti 1.827 -17,6% 7.059

9 PAE Xanthi AO 1.738 - 7,6% 7.052

10 AO Paniliakos Pyrgos 1.451 68,9% 3.636

11 PAE Kallithea Athina 1.333 -13,7% 3.800

12 AO Proodeftiki Neolaia Nikaias1.307 0,8% 3.046

13 AO Ioanikos Nikaias 1.224 5,6% 4.565

14 PAO Akratitos Liosion Athina 1.201 41,1% 2.180

15 PAE Aigaleo Athina 1.036 -20,4% 3.356

16 PAE Chalkidona NE Neapolis 800 172,1% 2.762

Total 2.830 -15,9% 24.829

Club Average vs '03 Highest

1 Panathinaikos AO Athinon 8.853 9,5% 13.416

2 PAOK Thessalonikis 8.761 24,0% 24.829

3 Olympiakos SF Peiraia 8.009 - 0,8% 11.346

4 AS Iraklis Thessalonikis 1.995 - 5,6% 4.677

5 AEK Athinon 1.946 -62,5% 9.472

6 Panionios GS Athinon 1.923 -55,1% 4.657

7 AS Aris Thessalonikis 1.867 -58,4% 3.849

8 OFI Heraklion 1.827 -17,6% 7.059

9 AO Xanthi 1.738 - 7,5% 7.052

10 AO Paniliakos Pyrgos 1.451 68,9% 3.636

11 PAE Kallithea Athinon 1.333 -13,7% 3.800

12 AO Proodeftiki Peiraia 1.307 0,8% 3.046

13 AO Ionikos Nikaias Peiraia 1.224 5,5% 4.565

14 APO Akratitos Liosion Athinon 1.201 41,2% 2.180

15 PAE Aigaleo Athinon 1.036 -20,4% 3.356

16 PAE Chalkidona Peiraia 800 172,1% 2.762

Total 2.830 -15,9% 24.829

Norway attendance this year so far

No.

Club

Average

Games

vs '05

Highest

1

Rosenborg BK

16.945

10

-2,5%

21.390

2

SK Brann

14.692

10

7,2%

17.600

3

Vålerenga IF

14.458

9

0,5%

23.054

4

Viking FK

13.647

9

9,7%

15.231

5

Ålesunds FK

10.626

9

116,6%

10.903

6

IK Start

9.381

9

104,4%

12.272

7

Fredrikstad FK

8.789

9

1,1%

10.287

8

Lillestrøm SK

8.133

9

14,3%

11.403

9

FC Lyn Oslo

6.425

9

42,0%

15.268

10

Molde FK

6.404

10

15,3%

11.167

11

Hamarkameratene Toppfotball

5.441

10

-2,5%

7.358

12

Odd-Greenland 1894

5.159

10

2,0%

6.915

13

Tromsø IL

5.066

10

-10,3%

8.235

14

Bodø/Glimt SFK

4.694

9

2,2%

6.198

.

Total

9.261

16,3%

23.054

[Guest Jeffery S.]

I stand corrected on attendance figures. But I have the excuse that the Paok site itself said there were 15,000 last weekend for the Larisa match.

I don't mind really, as it does indeed make the Impact all the more impressive. Even the Whitecaps draw well by that criteria.

Of course the money difference is in the TV contracts, the sponsors, and the quantity of games played, including Cup and European games.

[Winnipeg Fury]

I'm actually a huge fan of the Greek League and have been following it for years. PAOK are usually one of the top 6 in Greece. They always want to be considered part of the big three, but don't quite have consistent the fan base (Probably due to the abundance of of pro clubs from the city).

In no way was I trying to say that attendance has anything to do with quality.

Like I said in my earlier posts, if DF can get a full season uder his belt as the starting Keeper for PAOK, then he should be on his way both professionally and internationally. Starting for PAOK is a real accomplishment (and which I find personally very exciting being such a fan of the Greek League), and I certainly wish him all the best.

As for Norwegian attendance figures, Montreal would be the 5th largest draw in the Norwegian Premier. Very respectable by any standard and a real credit to the organization.

[Kurosawa1555362267]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

Of course the money difference is in the TV contracts, the sponsors, and the quantity of games played, including Cup and European games.

You forgot the price of the ticket. The Mtl Impact tickets are cheap, 15$ for a reserved seat, 10$ for general admission (5$ for kids) and add to that all the promotion. That helps boost the Impact attendence by at least 2 to 3 thousand.