Whitecaps 2006 Youth Programs

[Richard]

"August 19, 2005 - Whitecaps build on 2005 club successes and unveil new Academy Prospects program and 2006 Super Y coaching staff ...

VANCOUVER, B.C. – The Vancouver Whitecaps FC Youth program is approaching the end of an extremely successful year by gearing up for the new season.

Once again the Whitecaps will be sending a record number of teams to this year’s Super Y North American Championship in Florida this November. In addition, the program is preparing for the 2006 season which includes a new Academy Prospects program and Super Y Coaching staff. "

http://www.whitecapsfc.com/news/?id=2212

[Kelly]

and how much cash does this bring into the whitecaps? with most pro clubs youth systems are used a way to find talent and develop them into future pro's. It costs the club money.

But within the USL scam, a good youth program supports the pro club by simply getting parents to fork over cash.

a scam on the backs of those to wrapped up in the dream to realise that this is not how legitimate pro clubs operate youth programs.....

[DarnCherry]

quote:Originally posted by Kelly

and how much cash does this bring into the whitecaps? with most pro clubs youth systems are used a way to find talent and develop them into future pro's. It costs the club money.

But within the USL scam, a good youth program supports the pro club by simply getting parents to fork over cash.

a scam on the backs of those to wrapped up in the dream to realise that this is not how legitimate pro clubs operate youth programs.....

Do you have to post the same negative thing every time someone mentions the youth teams?

[Richard]

Nobody forces any player or parent to participate in any soccer program, they do so by choice entirely of their own volition. Like any venture it should be entered with caution and careful consideration of all implications. Sounds to me as if we have someone here who had unrealistic expectations and feels burned.

[Richard]

quote:Originally posted by Kelly

and how much cash does this bring into the whitecaps? with most pro clubs youth systems are used a way to find talent and develop them into future pro's. It costs the club money.

But within the USL scam, a good youth program supports the pro club by simply getting parents to fork over cash.

a scam on the backs of those to wrapped up in the dream to realise that this is not how legitimate pro clubs operate youth programs.....

The Whitecaps youth system like many others I'm sure operates on a cost recovery basis at the very least. It is a private business venture after all and one would expect there to be a profit motive backed up with some marketing to attract customers. Nothing wrong with that. If you or other folks are uncomfortable with it then don't get involved. Probably wise also to steer clear of all private, for profit soccer schools and academies whether they are independent operations or affiliated with local clubs for the same reason. Even the provincial development programs operate to a large degree on a user pay basis nowadays. None of them can guarantee anything in terms of results, whether that be a place on a senior USL team, a university scholarship, a European pro club tryout or whatever. All of them will use their systems to filter out the really outstanding players, the rest must just move on thank you, taking what they can from the experience but that's the way the professional sports world works and always has.

Regrettably, if you feel you have been burned or sold a bill of goods you really have nobody to blame but yourself. Caveat emptor applies in the world of soccer just as with everything else.

[Johnnie Monster]

To my knowledge, the Whitecaps are one of the few North American teams that actually HAS a proper youth development system.

And with the cash Kerfoot is throwing around, I hardly think he's relying on U-13 soccer dues to cover Jason Jordan's payroll.

[jaydog2006]

Kelly beleaves that you should not pay anything for youth soccer.Not even for travel.

[Kelly]

quote:Originally posted by jaydog2006

Kelly beleaves that you should not pay anything for youth soccer.Not even for travel.

Show where one legitimate European pro club charges it players for being part of it's system? I would say that any player leaving a UK pro youth system may have their hearts crushed, they rarely leave having paid insane money to participate.

Again and maybe Richard can help, how much does it cost to join the Whitecaps party?

Lets do some math based on Fury PR. 3 Grand a year per player. 20 players per team. 10 teams. That's 600 Grand. Even for a Kerfoot type, that’s good coin. If he's smart, he'll go after it. And I’m thinking, he’s a smart businessman. The more youth teams he can add, the better. It's about maximizing profit or minimizing loses. Which is fine.

And just because the Whitecaps are a USL team, doesn’t make the product any better than if a local club offered the same services for 250 bucks a year with non paid coaches.

Like I said, I wonder if Crewe or Dortmund charges its youth players? So I’m asking do these programs exist to develop players for the top team or has it been created to employ 10 B license coaches part-time or to offset the operating costs of the top squads?

If you don’t want to debate the issue go ahead, act like jaydog, don't use a spell checker and basically say that I'm just being a sore loser of sorts.

Which is lame and very George Bush.

[El Hombre]

quote:Originally posted by Kelly

If you don’t want to debate the issue go ahead, act like jaydog, don't use a spell checker and basically say that I'm just being a sore loser of sorts.

It's hard to debate the issue when you continually insist on comparing Canadian youth programs to European ones. Yes, European pro clubs spend money on youth players in developing them, but they also expect a high return on some of those players which just isn't possible in the current Canadian soccer climate.

[Richard]

quote:Originally posted by Kelly

Show where one legitimate European pro club charges it players for being part of it's system? I would say that any player leaving a UK pro youth system may have their hearts crushed, they rarely leave having paid insane money to participate.

First of all most European clubs make enough money off their first team to cover the costs of running a youth program. Same cannot be said of any USL club with a youth program.

Secondly, every parent who shells out three grand or whatever it costs for their child to participate in the program of choice knows before they sign and hand over the cheque how much it will cost. If it is too much money for you then don't get into it. If you pay the money without doing the research in advance to assure yourself you will be getting what you think you're paying for then you have nobody but yourself to blame.

Thirdly, if you're happier having your child play for a local club team coached by one of the parent volunteers in the local suburban league then go for it. Nothing wrong with that, millions of kids around the world get a kick out of doing just that every day. It will undoubtedly be cheaper.

[Kelly]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

First of all most European clubs make enough money off their first team to cover the costs of running a youth program. Same cannot be said of any USL club with a youth program.

Secondly, every parent who shells out three grand or whatever it costs for their child to participate in the program of choice knows before they sign and hand over the cheque how much it will cost. If it is too much money for you then don't get into it. If you pay the money without doing the research in advance to assure yourself you will be getting what you think you're paying for then you have nobody but yourself to blame.

Thirdly, if you're happier having your child play for a local club team coached by one of the parent volunteers in the local suburban league then go for it. Nothing wrong with that, millions of kids around the world get a kick out of doing just that every day. It will undoubtedly be cheaper.

So what you're saying is, yes it's a cash grab, but buyer beware.

I'm fine with that. Cause that's what I saying...

[L.T.]

No, it's called services in exchange for payment...why do Canadians always paint private enterprise as evil?

If you provide a service and someone is willing to pay for it, why is it a 'cash grab'? I'm sure you get money for whatever it is you do - Is it a cash grab? If someone offers you more money, would you decline?

[Richard]

If you think it is nothing but a cash grabbing scam that's fine, unfortunate to be sure but you're entitled to your opinion just as is everybody else. I cannot speak for your personal experience - you are evidently very bitter about some experience you had - but judging from the rip-roaring popularity of the Whitecaps and other SYL programs in this part of the world your opinions are not shared by everybody so don't badmouth all commercial soccer programs based on what you consider a bad experience because that's just makes you look silly.

[Richard]

If you think it is nothing but a cash grabbing scam that's fine, unfortunate to be sure but you're entitled to your opinion just as is everybody else. I cannot speak for your personal experience - you are evidently very bitter about some experience you had - but judging from the rip-roaring popularity of the Whitecaps and other SYL programs in this part of the world your opinions are not shared by everybody so don't badmouth all commercial soccer programs based on what you consider a bad experience because that's just makes you look silly.

[DarnCherry]

quote:Originally posted by El Hombre

It's hard to debate the issue when you continually insist on comparing Canadian youth programs to European ones. Yes, European pro clubs spend money on youth players in developing them, but they also expect a high return on some of those players which just isn't possible in the current Canadian soccer climate.

You hit it bang on the head there. This isn't Europe. In Europe the clubs make their money on TV revenue, bums in seats, merchandising etc. They can afford to run youth programs for free. The sport is different in Canada, there's no revenue outside of ticket sales so of course you are going to charge money to run these programs. They cost money to run, money the clubs don't have.

Of course in Europe there is a higher pecentage of youth trained going onto professional careers. Theres more damn options for them.

Kelly's complaining sounds as silly as if English hockey clubs had a youth sytem and someone there was complaining that the teams were charging them for participating, and complaining because not many youth that participated turned pro.

[Johnnie Monster]

And if there was any truth to his concerns about the legitimacy of the Caps Super Y programs, perhaps he should look at how many of their youth clubs beat out leagues full of non-USL opposition to land themselves in the North American semi-finals.

Also worth noting - I'm guessing the Caps Super Y's will be having access to the Caps new SFU training centre (and possibly the second one rumored for Surrey).

Hmmm - professional coaches, first-class training facilities, and proven results on a North American scale.

Yep, it MUST be a scam!

[Blue and White Army]

Kelly, I might be wrong here, but you are:

1.) inferring it's an underhanded way of making money, and

2.) inferring that the Whitecaps shouldn't be charging people for participation.

I'm not going to touch upon point one, but regarding point two... who should foot the bill? And if it's wrong to charge for participation, should we close it down altogether?

[G-Man]

quote:Originally posted by Krammerhead

You hit it bang on the head there. This isn't Europe. In Europe the clubs make their money on TV revenue, bums in seats, merchandising etc. They can afford to run youth programs for free. The sport is different in Canada, there's no revenue outside of ticket sales so of course you are going to charge money to run these programs. They cost money to run, money the clubs don't have.

Of course in Europe there is a higher pecentage of youth trained going onto professional careers. Theres more damn options for them.

Kelly's complaining sounds as silly as if English hockey clubs had a youth sytem and someone there was complaining that the teams were charging them for participating, and complaining because not many youth that participated turned pro.

I'll add my 2 cents.

It's sad that North American teams have given up trying to put bums in seats and getting traditional revenue streams. (one being selling good youth players to bigger clubs) We give up- bring on the fat surburban kids willing to pay to wear our logo!

Thanks Krammerhead for pointing that out.

Like any good Biz, they should put there money where their mouths are and develop good young players and then sell them for profit. Then at least they'd be taking a risk with their own time and money and not moms and dads. It's what 4th division clubs do all over the world. Who would love to get 4000 a game and have the budget that the Whitecaps have. And in Europe you won't have crap kids on the roster cause they could afford to be there.

They're there on merit and not for profit.

It's a easy way out for some coaches to quit their day jobs... Go to Europe and the foundation of elite youth soccer is volunteer or part time.

And to the parents of that superstar u-14 player signing up this year, make sure that when you sign that you retain his rights. So if the club sells him to Fulham or Millwall when he turn 18, that you get the transfer fees as it was you who paid for his development.

[Vancouversoccerman]

quote:Originally posted by Blue and White Army

Kelly, I might be wrong here, but you are:

1.) inferring it's an underhanded way of making money, and

2.) inferring that the Whitecaps shouldn't be charging people for participation.

I'm not going to touch upon point one, but regarding point two... who should foot the bill? And if it's wrong to charge for participation, should be close them down altogehter?

I see no problem in charging for access to good coaches and facilities. In Canada, we've always had private elite academies for hockey, tennis, golf and I'm sure other sports as well (I believe figure skating and gymnastics also have private, for-profit programs). Community minor sports programs are great, but it's difficult to run top flight programs with only parents as volunteers. Trained coaches are professionals and should be paid for their expertise.

I think a key difference between European academies and the Whitecaps youth program is simply professional rights. In Europe, they develop youth players to become professionals, and they secure their rights at an early age. If the player leaves for another club before turning 17 or 18, the development club is usually compensated. The development club can also transfer players in their system for cash. Thus, the emphasis is on attracting the best youth players to your academy, because they'll either become first team players in your squad someday, or a good source of income when you sell them.

With the Whitecaps, I somehow doubt that they secure any sort of professional rights to their youth players, although I'm not certain. Who they could sell youth players to is a mystery to me because there's no real North American transfer market, and it's currently difficult for Canadians to obtain a work permit for Europe without a European parent / grandparent. The Whitecaps seem to be more interested in developing elite youth players with training that would never be available in any minor soccer program, and perhaps signing the best players when they come of age. So, how this could be a scam is beyond me.

Cheers,

Bill

[WhitecapsFCFan]

quote:Originally posted by Johnnie Monster

Also worth noting - I'm guessing the Caps Super Y's will be having access to the Caps new SFU training centre (and possibly the second one rumored for Surrey).

In fact, they have had both last year and this year.

[analyst]

The Whitecaps press release states that this year that Club will be starting an "Academy Prospects" program with free training and games. Thats very good news, if it does happen. Maybe in a few years the Caps will be able to sign young players to long term contracts and if they really develop, then sell them to bigger names teams.

[maxG]

Just wondering if you guys know anything about the u-21 team the Whitecaps are putting in the vmsl u-21 division? Should be fun to play against!

[maxG]

Just wondering if you guys know anything about the u-21 team the Whitecaps are putting in the vmsl u-21 division? Should be fun to play against!

[Kelly]

quote:Originally posted by analyst

The Whitecaps press release states that this year that Club will be starting an "Academy Prospects" program with free training and games. Thats very good news, if it does happen. Maybe in a few years the Caps will be able to sign young players to long term contracts and if they really develop, then sell them to bigger names teams.

That would be great. The Fury "academy" they tried starting last year was going to cost the u-9 to u-13 kids close to 225 bucks a month. (Jaydog--This was presented at a presentation I was at. They're having one next month for anyone interested...)

[argh1]

Apples and tangerines, I know but for at least 40 years Canadian Moms and Dads have been paying gladly for hockey schools. So if they wanna pay for youth soccer so be it...... nothing wrong with paying for your kids to play if you want to.......nuthin' new ..... it's their money, they earned it spend as you will. There's alot worse ways of getting rid of your pay cheque than giving your kids a summer or two of doing what they want.