Jason Posted August 21, 2005 Share Posted August 21, 2005 I thought I'd throw this out for discussion even though I might incur the wrath of Lynx fans. After years of seeing your club having poor results, being the Impact's de facto farm club, and generally operated in a small time manner, how would you feel if the Lynx went down to Div 2? The way I see it, it might not be so bad. The club may have a chance to compete. Their budget would be sufficient to make them a big player in D2. They could keep virtually every element of their organization the same, even probably most of the players. As fans, you lose out on seeing Rochester, Montreal, Vancouver, etc. but you would have a better chance of seeing your club play games they have a chance in. Ideally, the club should be run in a manner that makes them competitive in Div 1, but with current ownership there is no sign that will be happening anytime soon. Assuming current ownership stays, it might not be a bad decision. After all, how many fans would really leave if they went to D2? The fans they have a hard core and would likely follow the team. Anyone who thinks the club isn't "big time" already ignores the Lynx. The owners are pretty much running it like a D2 club already, so maybe they should just compete at that level and eliminate any illusion. If they can't run a proper D1 club, either sell or move down. Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polish_LYNX_Fan Posted August 21, 2005 Share Posted August 21, 2005 The thing is our season has been piss poor but we are only about 10 pts out of a play-off spot. Now think The Pr game that finish 4-4 ( pr socre in the 94min) thats 2 blown points. The Richmond game which should have been a win. another 2 points. The recent Rhinos_lynx game where the Rhinos got outplayed and we missed a PK. So this piss poor season has been well piss poor but if we didnt drop dumb points along the way the table would look much dofferent. Anywho S.O.S. M.L.S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted August 21, 2005 Share Posted August 21, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Jason I thought I'd throw this out for discussion even though I might incur the wrath of Lynx fans. After years of seeing your club having poor results, being the Impact's de facto farm club, and generally operated in a small time manner, how would you feel if the Lynx went down to Div 2? The way I see it, it might not be so bad. The club may have a chance to compete. Their budget would be sufficient to make them a big player in D2. They could keep virtually every element of their organization the same, even probably most of the players. As fans, you lose out on seeing Rochester, Montreal, Vancouver, etc. but you would have a better chance of seeing your club play games they have a chance in. Ideally, the club should be run in a manner that makes them competitive in Div 1, but with current ownership there is no sign that will be happening anytime soon. Assuming current ownership stays, it might not be a bad decision. After all, how many fans would really leave if they went to D2? The fans they have a hard core and would likely follow the team. Anyone who thinks the club isn't "big time" already ignores the Lynx. The owners are pretty much running it like a D2 club already, so maybe they should just compete at that level and eliminate any illusion. If they can't run a proper D1 club, either sell or move down. Jason Th question is: at what point do you cease to have a brand of soccer that you can call professional? Is D2 still considered professional? and does performing well at D2 do you any good in terms of selling tickets, promoting the club, and building pride and loyalty for the club etc etc...? I am not so sure it does. Awareness is pretty poor as it is in the media but you've got to think that it will be down to CPSL levels if they were to play in D2. On the other hand D2 is supposed to be the place for clubs who don't have the financial resources to play in D1. In regards to the finances, the Lynx might already be a D2 club. I would hope that the Lynx ownership would sell the club or do everything possible to find additional investors rather than move down to D2. There aren't even any canadian sides in D2. However, If you were Bruno and you knew that the MLS is comming, would it do you any good to move to D2? What if you would like to sell the club in anticipation of MLS, how does being in D2 make you any better off? Thats the problem with promotion and relation and why I am sceptical that it will ever work in North america. Imagine if you spend XXX dollars to get a professional team. One of the only financial benefits of sports teams is the possibility that they increase in value. But what kind of hit does your franchise value take if you boought and team in D1 and then you end up in D2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket Robin Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 Toronto Lynx vs Wilmington Hammerheads? Maybe only Norm Rumack would like that as he could pedal his FAN590 t-shirts. No chance of media coverage otherwise. Remember the mainstream coverage drops off as the team falls out of contention. The Toronto Star stayed the course for the Lady Lynx into their home playoff game and one follow up story after the season a good six weeks after they stopped covering the men's team. Being Division 2, they would still have your players picked over by Montreal and the whole team would be ready to jump ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 Don't think for one minute the Lynx could drop to D2 and continue with the same roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Man Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Richard Don't think for one minute the Lynx could drop to D2 and continue with the same roster. True, cause if they did---they'd still suck and be bottom of the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zacRWE Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 if we were to drop, the team would fall apart. Bruno sell the team to people who actually run things! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polish_LYNX_Fan Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 S.O.S. M.L.S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 quote:Originally posted by zacRWE if we were to drop, the team would fall apart. Bruno sell the team to people who actually run things! Would we, though? Do the Moms/Dads/kids really care what level they're watching? Would it matter if Joe Mattachione is a USL2 player rather than a USL1 at the kids camps? Would the soccer clubs really care when they'regetting extremely discounted tickets or freebies and the main purpose is not watching soccerbut a day out with the team? Would sponsorship truly decline because we're playing in USL2, when our sponsors are primarily local and lower-income (ie - not targetting television exposure) game-day visibility promotions? Would media exposure really drop, considering we have none? (not hyperbole) I definitely see some of our younger guys leaving (Arango, Taty, Dodds, etc.) but I bet a core of the local guys (Joe M et al) would hang around. They really only play in Toronto for the fun of playing semi-pro soccer in their hometown. Don't get me wrong, demotion would be bad for the team. However I don't think it'd be as disastrous as it would be for other teams, due to Toronto's uninformed/passive fanbase, local and low-income advertizing base, and a core of local guys who aren't looking to carve out a career in Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanKeay Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 I agree with marc, us dropping would not change a thing really. Sure we would lose some players like dodds and maybe a few younger guys. But would the hartrells be better off yup, less money to pay there players and well the crowd wont go down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Perhaps. But, I have noticed this year that the USL D1 tables ( as well as short term results and scheds) have been appearing with greater regularity in the stats and standings pages of the local newspapers. Right next to the European results and tables. That might explain why the attendance this year has been relatively good given the the on-field results. Thsi helps people know when the games are played. Would USL D2 results get dropped from the papers outright? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David C. Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Related side-question: Would a new owner be able to start a USL-D2 team in Toronto or do the Lynx own the territorial rights for all USL divisions? Just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted August 24, 2005 Author Share Posted August 24, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Free kick Thats the problem with promotion and relation and why I am sceptical that it will ever work in North america. Imagine if you spend XXX dollars to get a professional team. One of the only financial benefits of sports teams is the possibility that they increase in value. But what kind of hit does your franchise value take if you boought and team in D1 and then you end up in D2? You hit the nail on the head -- franchise value and territorial rights is what makes sports team ownership in North America profitable. I don't ever see the Lynx dropping for that reason. However, I was trying to get feedback to see if a drop would be preferable to the current doormat/farm club status of the club. Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted August 24, 2005 Author Share Posted August 24, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Marc Would we, though? Do the Moms/Dads/kids really care what level they're watching? Would it matter if Joe Mattachione is a USL2 player rather than a USL1 at the kids camps? Would the soccer clubs really care when they'regetting extremely discounted tickets or freebies and the main purpose is not watching soccerbut a day out with the team? Would sponsorship truly decline because we're playing in USL2, when our sponsors are primarily local and lower-income (ie - not targetting television exposure) game-day visibility promotions? Would media exposure really drop, considering we have none? (not hyperbole) I definitely see some of our younger guys leaving (Arango, Taty, Dodds, etc.) but I bet a core of the local guys (Joe M et al) would hang around. They really only play in Toronto for the fun of playing semi-pro soccer in their hometown. Don't get me wrong, demotion would be bad for the team. However I don't think it'd be as disastrous as it would be for other teams, due to Toronto's uninformed/passive fanbase, local and low-income advertizing base, and a core of local guys who aren't looking to carve out a career in Europe. I really agree with you on this. Going to D2 wouldn't help generate fans, but I think it really wouldn't cost any, especially if they team had a better record and was winning. I also agree that a good chunk of the team would stay. Expensive imports and some (but not all) of the younger, ambitious players would move on, but much of the local talent would stay. When you look at the roster, how many guys would really be on another USL D1 roster...a few? This is not to say they aren't good enough to play at this level, but how many of them are good enough to unseat players on the Whitecaps or Impact or get an import spot on a US team? And among the ones that are, how many of them are really willing to make the move to another city? Look at the Calgary Mustangs. I feel if they theoretically dropped to D2 (couldn't happen because of geography), they would've kept half their squad intact. They likely couldn't afford their German keeper, and players like Mesut Mert would've left and Alberta players such as Liam DeSilva and Sean Fraser would've still went to play in D1, but the other local guys would probably still be playing and drawing similar paychecks as they were paid minimally last year but still showed up. As a fan, I know I would've attended every game this year if they were in D2 and I think most of the other Mustang fans here would've done the same. Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackstars06 Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 Although the Lynx would probably not lose any fans and their results would likely improve I would not want to see them drop to USL 2. Is there relegation between USL Division 1 and USL Division 2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnie Monster Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 No, absolutely not. Over the past few years some teams have voluntarily dropped to Div 2 for financial reasons. Otherwise, there is no performance-based pro-rel between Div 1 & 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Impact Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 If you're gonna drop to Div.2 why not just operate a CPSL team? (as mentioned above by someone). Same caliber of play less travel costs. Downside would be competing for whatever market exists with other GTA teams. I think Brunos hands are tied, until he finds out officially about the MLS coming to Toronto. If it does, I dont think anybody in TO is going to miss the Lynx. If it doesn't well then Bruno has a decision to make, he either folds and walks away a few million lighter, or he sucks up his pride, and tries to get new investors on board. Anybody know if Joe Vitale president and founder of Ital-Pasta, has any interest in owning a "pro" soccer team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zacRWE Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 lets say that we do drop, loose some players but compete for the championship. Then would we say, we deserve to be back in D1? I would say once were there, no matter how good we do, we would stay there! untill of course MLS comes!!!!!(please MLS, please come) as for what Marc said.... I totally see your point. I guess I just gave those parents and kids too much credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breakwood Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Mr.Impact Anybody know if Joe Vitale president and founder of Ital-Pasta, has any interest in owning a "pro" soccer team? Well maybe not Ital-Pasta, but according to last games promotion, Unico may be interested, LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.