DJT Posted August 21, 2005 Share Posted August 21, 2005 Vancouver Whitecaps (9-9-4, 36pts, 5th place) vs. Minnesota Thunder (5-10-8, 25pts, 10th place) Audio Webcast: Vancouver - TEAM 1040 AM (direct link to stream) I assume that Blue & White Army is recording this. I am recording it as well (though I missed the pre-match) as a backup and will post my recording only if there is a problem with his. If you want to listen to the complete match later without knowing the score then don't read the rest of this thread. <SPOILER SPACE - spoilers below> <SPOILER SPACE - spoilers below> <SPOILER SPACE - spoilers below> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analyst Posted August 21, 2005 Share Posted August 21, 2005 Final score 4-0 for the Caps. Played without Mike Franks and Steve Kindel the whole game and Jeff Clark left in the first half, and still beat Minny easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted August 21, 2005 Share Posted August 21, 2005 The Whitecaps overpowered the visiting Minnesota Thunder 3-0 on the strength of two goals by Jason Jordan to go with Martin Nash's game-winner. It was a pair of first-half goals two minutes apart that undid the Thunder, as Vancouver remains unbeaten at home this season. http://www.whitecapsfc.com/news/?id=2221 This puts Vancouver in third place in the standings behind Montreal and Rochester. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettermirror Posted August 21, 2005 Share Posted August 21, 2005 best free tickets ever! waiting in line to buy tickets and this dude just gave me and my buddy his extras! the game was very good. the caps really use the park. why the central midfielders jog slower than molasses i'll not understand. they'd have much more offence if one hung back and the other attacked behind the wingers and strikers. the game was made all the better by both streakers. the ugly naked guy. and the little boy who was fully clothed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 quote:Originally posted by bettermirror best free tickets ever! waiting in line to buy tickets and this dude just gave me and my buddy his extras! the game was very good. the caps really use the park. why the central midfielders jog slower than molasses i'll not understand. they'd have much more offence if one hung back and the other attacked behind the wingers and strikers. the game was made all the better by both streakers. the ugly naked guy. and the little boy who was fully clothed! First off I totally agree on the key flaw to Lilly's system, there is no mids supporting the strikers on so many plays, they never even make it to the box and the play is done, Jordan holding up the ball endlessly (which he does quite well). Don't think it was a great match, as Minnesota is quite atrocious, much worse than Richmond. Even so, Caps just walked through their soft defence in the first minutes and should have got one even earlier. Only after m. 20 or so they picked up intensity and began to play sharper. After watching two Caps games, I cannot resist thinking that the level I am seeing here is quite low. Sorry to offend certain ones here, but especially when it comes to how teams are coached off the ball, positionally, things were so rudimentary. And that is boring, as they are always running on to the ball, it never will come to where they are. Further to that, the intensity level is shockingly low, even the visitors were real duds. I don't think a single player I saw these last days could play in Spanish 2nd division, but I must say of the young ones perhaps Harmse would be the guy with the most solid prospects. And please Caps, let's move on from the retirement home bs and replace Dasovic, Watson, Nash and etc out of the picture. A dubious at most reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 So it took BL's tactics to finally have you conclude the USL is below the Spanish Segunda? I'm just curious because I thought maybe the aluminium bleachers, the sound system, the ticket prices, and all the Hyundais in the players parking lot might have been more immediate clues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 So what do we do, walk away from the best we have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Boy Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 Richard, why are you baiting him? He's just stating an opinion on level of play. He is not in any saying we should abandon the Caps. I feel he's trying to say we can do better than that. I kind of agree with him too... I was at the Richmond game and the Caps should have slaughtered them. Their decisiveness in the final third isn't much to be desired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 We can always do better and what's this about baiting, I asked a reasonable question of our Barcelona poster, seeking clarification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarnCherry Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 Lilleys system is boring, just the way he wants it. Also the level of play is really low, at least their lack of skill on set plays and the inability to finish (they could have scored 6 Saturday night). It's not league wide mind you, watch some of the USL-1 video highlights from the official site and you can see some excellent plays. The skill is there. I tend to think that Lilley has the players wound up so tight with his incessant demand for them to do everything exactly as he says that they have forgotten most of what they have learned in the past! Also for all the complaints that the Whitecaps should drop all of their older players I'll remind you again that the Whitecaps are run as a professional club not as a developmental club. They have their reserve and youth teams for those that cry about them not developing players. Older players on the Caps are there for a reason. Sometimes it's just name recognition (Whitecaps brass told me that both Nash and ex-player Xausa were brought in for their name recognition), and other times because they can still play well at this level. Since these guys are locals its a no brainer that they are going to end up with the Whitecaps. Montreal and Toronto would do the same thing if they had some local older guys who are at the end of their career and have come home to finish off their careers. The Whitecaps only have to please their fan base, not a bunch of people who are only concerned with how the club develops it's players to send overseas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Boy Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 Walking away is an extreme scenario don't you think? Something even Lynx fans haven't done. Maybe if you came up with a more reasonable suggestion I would have refrained from suggesting you were baiting him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 You never heard of hyperbole? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Boy Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 so now it's hyperbole... before it was a reasonable question. Which is it? actuallly don't answer... this conversation is unnecessary... move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analyst Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Krammerhead Lilleys system is boring, just the way he wants it. Also the level of play is really low, at least their lack of skill on set plays and the inability to finish (they could have scored 6 Saturday night). It's not league wide mind you, watch some of the USL-1 video highlights from the official site and you can see some excellent plays. The skill is there. I tend to think that Lilley has the players wound up so tight with his incessant demand for them to do everything exactly as he says that they have forgotten most of what they have learned in the past! Also for all the complaints that the Whitecaps should drop all of their older players I'll remind you again that the Whitecaps are run as a professional club not as a developmental club. They have their reserve and youth teams for those that cry about them not developing players. Older players on the Caps are there for a reason. Sometimes it's just name recognition (Whitecaps brass told me that both Nash and ex-player Xausa were brought in for their name recognition), and other times because they can still play well at this level. Since these guys are locals its a no brainer that they are going to end up with the Whitecaps. Montreal and Toronto would do the same thing if they had some local older guys who are at the end of their career and have come home to finish off their careers. The Whitecaps only have to please their fan base, not a bunch of people who are only concerned with how the club develops it's players to send overseas. Very good assessment of the Caps. Occasionally at Caps games you get to see some very good play, like that of Minny's Johnny Menyongar on Saturday night. We don''t pay English Premier league prices to watch the Caps play and in return we don't get high calibre play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analyst Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Krammerhead Lilleys system is boring, just the way he wants it. Also the level of play is really low, at least their lack of skill on set plays and the inability to finish (they could have scored 6 Saturday night). It's not league wide mind you, watch some of the USL-1 video highlights from the official site and you can see some excellent plays. The skill is there. I tend to think that Lilley has the players wound up so tight with his incessant demand for them to do everything exactly as he says that they have forgotten most of what they have learned in the past! Also for all the complaints that the Whitecaps should drop all of their older players I'll remind you again that the Whitecaps are run as a professional club not as a developmental club. They have their reserve and youth teams for those that cry about them not developing players. Older players on the Caps are there for a reason. Sometimes it's just name recognition (Whitecaps brass told me that both Nash and ex-player Xausa were brought in for their name recognition), and other times because they can still play well at this level. Since these guys are locals its a no brainer that they are going to end up with the Whitecaps. Montreal and Toronto would do the same thing if they had some local older guys who are at the end of their career and have come home to finish off their careers. The Whitecaps only have to please their fan base, not a bunch of people who are only concerned with how the club develops it's players to send overseas. Very good assessment of the Caps. Occasionally at Caps games you get to see some very good play, like that of Minny's Johnny Menyongar on Saturday night. We don''t pay English Premier league prices to watch the Caps play and in return we don't get high calibre play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnie Monster Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 It's been very frustrating this year... some nights we can dominate a club like Sunderland, other nights we struggle to maintain draws against Toronto and Virginia Beach. WTF is that all about? Are they not taking weak opposition seriously enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Krammerhead Lilleys system is boring, just the way he wants it. Also the level of play is really low, at least their lack of skill on set plays and the inability to finish (they could have scored 6 Saturday night). It's not league wide mind you, watch some of the USL-1 video highlights from the official site and you can see some excellent plays. The skill is there. I tend to think that Lilley has the players wound up so tight with his incessant demand for them to do everything exactly as he says that they have forgotten most of what they have learned in the past! Also for all the complaints that the Whitecaps should drop all of their older players I'll remind you again that the Whitecaps are run as a professional club not as a developmental club. They have their reserve and youth teams for those that cry about them not developing players. Older players on the Caps are there for a reason. Sometimes it's just name recognition (Whitecaps brass told me that both Nash and ex-player Xausa were brought in for their name recognition), and other times because they can still play well at this level. Since these guys are locals its a no brainer that they are going to end up with the Whitecaps. Montreal and Toronto would do the same thing if they had some local older guys who are at the end of their career and have come home to finish off their careers. The Whitecaps only have to please their fan base, not a bunch of people who are only concerned with how the club develops it's players to send overseas. I like this analysis. After reading Richard's post on another thread providing the link to the Caps Super Y and Reserve team status, I cannot see how people say they are not developing players. Also, another recent post indicated that players like Wilson, Chin and (we know) Djekanovic are all playing on the Whitecaps reserve team. It will be interesting to see if players coming to the end of their Euro careers like Pesch, Aguiar, JDV & Radz come back to the Lynx (or by then, MLS hopefully) to finish their careers in Toronto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Danny Boy so now it's hyperbole... before it was a reasonable question. Which is it? actuallly don't answer... this conversation is unnecessary... move on. Hyperbole used to frame a perfectly reasonable question - sheesh, where did you learn to read and write English? That'll teach me for not sticking to the lowest common denominator form of expression. Guess I should limit the vocabulary I use to the typical 500 words too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooks Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 Here we go again...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 Ah, regimental play. Nice. I don't know. I'm pretty set against gifting anybody a club possition, whether it's for name appeal or as a project player but I understand that the reality on the ground has to be little less naive. Still, I think it's funner to watch a player who you feel may yet show you their best than watching a player who you know will never show you their best. Of course you don't want to over-do it either way if you can help it but throwing a prospect to the wolves (as it were) can sure turn into some magic. Yeah. Regimental play can suck but not as much as playing DOWN to your opponent. That really sucks. And frustrates the Hell out of everyone watching. Worse, I don't know if I've ever seen a team which has learned to flick-the-switch from coast to full throttle with any reliability yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarnCherry Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 Some players may be signed for name recogntion, but if they couldn't get the job done Lilley wouldn't have them out on the pitch, just look at Xausa for instance. He wasn't better than the young guys so he's gone. Also it's not like some of the older guys are getting lots of minutes. Corazzin has played just 545 minutes, Dasovic 876 minutes and Watson 903. Other players are getting the majority of minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Speaking of young guys, I thought Harmse played very well in the only time I saw him this year on TV vs. Seattle. A couple posters also noted they have seen good things in him this year. Is he ready to challenge for a central defender role with the MNT seeing fellow USLer Gervais is holding down a spot? Harmse seems to have more speed and skill - mind you, I will repeat that I have only seen him once this year. For the record, I liked him in the WYC 2003 qualifier vs. USA, but did not think he played well vs Spain in UAE, where Mitchell felt the need to put Hutchinson in the back to tighten the "d". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarnCherry Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Harmse has been in every game but one this season racking up twice as many minutes as fellow defenders Watson and Dasovic. Whether or not he's good enough to challenge for a spot on the national team I'll leave it up to the experts on this board. Sigma, I have no idea what Xausa is doing now. He's not playing soccer anywhere else in the USL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJT Posted August 23, 2005 Author Share Posted August 23, 2005 Harmse was chosen as the best player of this game by the radio commentators, and, if I recall correctly, was singled out by Lenarduzzi during the post-match show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Okay, sort of to get back to everyone. It is not, first off, a question of comparing these Caps to FC Barcelona. I go often to third, fourth and fifth tier in Spain, plus also watching kids play. Whitecaps are up over third tier Spain in general in terms of quality of organization, merchandising, stadium, grass quality (quite good really, soft but fast), and maybe in terms of defense and goal, as having a sure hand like Watson in there is a plus (and longtimers here will know I have my probs with the guy). The midfield is way below what you'd normally get, as the passing is mediocre and the way play is developed is really basic. This is also due to coaching, and the Caps are under-coached. Just telling your mids to stay back and be cautious is not the way to go when you have a striker like Jordan. Just for him the level in terms of striking would be close to 3rd tier in Spain. Jordan is a funny kind of striker who has a way of beating defenders to a divided ball, and getting it into control with comfort. He is not too fast, his shot is no marvel, but he is quite impressive. I don't think he could play much at a higher level as better defenders would not put up with his stuff, but he's excellent for here. But if you had one central mid with ball skills and a shot coming up behind him and finishing what he sets up, you'd get in front sooner, could fall back into Lilly's defense more comfortably, and would not have to risk results so often. As for the retirement home. I can't understand what Krammerhead is defending. Rightly speaking any side below a top flight is developing players, as any side where the good guys who are young enough will move on is in a development phase. There is no point in giving key spots to guys even over 35 when you could be working on guys around 23. First, it is a way of preparing future seasons, it gives your reserves and Super Ys more hope and motivation as they see a real chance of making the team for some games at least, indeed it strengthens the whole club structure. Nash played well on Saturday, Watson too, Dasovic only came on to cover towards the end. But I seriously doubt the Caps would have worse results with younger players in there doing their parts. Finally, all last week I had my kid in a W-Caps camp, out at Trafalgar Park. One of his coaches was Josh Wicks, who found out on Wed he would be starting. Must say he was very dedicated to the kids, great attitude, and never seemed nervous about what was coming up. In the game he was quite strong and cool, I am quite happy for him and my son was enthused to see him play and speak to him afterwards. In this regard the Whitecaps work hard on connecting with the kids and they must be credited for it. Also: now that Franks is out Srdjan would be 2nd keeper, but his intention is to go back to UBC and play there. So now he has a quandry for the final 6 weeks of the season, whether to get on with school and playing there or stick with the Caps in to the playoffs, where he could well get some first team competitive action. Tough call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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