wfp Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 The following post is a response specifically to many of the comments of Joe, who, I honestly believe has labelled some real pros and cons regarding both our football community, the nature of support and of course, the nature of WFP. I don't agree entirely but I do appreciate you taking the time to write in Tolerable English! quote: "First, why is it called World Football Pages?" reply: The game world-over is called football. If we printed in the budding republik of Slobebia, who have chosen to call the game Slobalball, do you suggest I call the paper World Slobalball Pages!? It is rarely a sound practise to buck convention just because one can. North Americans are notorious for doing such and you may have noticed, most of the universe doesn't really give a toss about what NA's are playing, in part, because they're bucking many conventions that have taken over 100 years of international convention to establish and proliferate amongst the gobal community. The name "Football" is one such convention. NA stands almost entirely alone with the term "soccer" and have snubbed those traditions in doing so. Add cheerleaders and a 35 yard Penalty Kick, and presto, you've managed to alienate oneself from the global community. I scrap with conventions all the time Joe, but not this one. The game is FOOTBALL, as is the paper (as BTW are the recently renamed Vancouver Whitecaps FC (not SC). quote: "Posterboy..... If people get so involved to the point of getting their self esteem through a soccer team like some followers do in Europe then we should be pitied for sure." reply: This is not about surrogate self-esteem. Humankind has a time-honoured habit of living vicariously through, not just sporting teams, but all manner of life's little joys. The worst side of such for football is hooliganism (that, please note, frequently, largely is not orchestrated by real fans), but in its prime, living vicariously in the moment, on the day, will lead 30,000 Englishmen to sing the anthem as one voice, anywhere England play. What you pity, is often the passion that can unite a nation, a continent, and on rare occasions, a world. It's a beautiful thing, and you can't tell me that 5,000 fans who sang the anthem at Swangard Sep. 1 then cheered their Canadians off the pitch after a 3-1 loss!!!, are misguided. Every little girl in that grandstand that sang and cheered was living vicariously through the exploits of their heroes in red. And a great deal of them really did have their hearts and souls on the line. The trick of course is to know when to rejoin the real world. If the passion you spill in the 90 minutes of football, playing or watching, rolls off the field and consumes the rest of your existence, then yes, it's pitiful. But for most, it doesn't, and your fears/dismay is largely unfounded. I would rejoice the day we can emulate those Europeans that can sing their anthems by the thousand, anywhere. And Posterboy is the expression of that 90 minutes of heart and soul, not so much as you say, the "style" of WFP. Though I hope that after reading an issue or two there's always something in there that makes you feel like you just 'experienced' the passion rather than read a nice conservative report. Posterboy certainly isn't conservative, and maybe the middle finger isn't always the best answer for gameday angst, but I tell you, when the ref made some crap call against Canada Sep. 1, the 5,000 boos and geers those little Canadian girls drected at the ref, were exactly the same thing, and all those parents on site were perfectly ok with that!! Let's drop the belittling and hypocrisy. quote: "The sanity of trying to start a soccer magazine in this country has to be questioned." reply: Can't argue with that :-) quote: "Is the market there for such a small segmentation? As Daniel said I can get that soccer info online." reply: They'll always be a market for the printed product, just as nomatter how many pc games at your disposal, people still play board games and throw decks of cards. Have you noticed how many people still read the PRINTED daily, despite the fact it can be found online. Truth is, the Web-has-it-all mentality is both incorrect (in regards to content, style, longevity etc etc) and fails to account for the fact that if given the choice of getting all one wants from a newspaper or a website, most will choose that which is immediately in front of them, appealing to all the senses, including in a big way, Touch. We are tactile animals by nature, and newsprint, unlike the web, caters directly to such. Here's a trivial scenario for you. Next issue, WFP features the recent Canada v Germany matches, including a full-colour back-page photo montage - 11x13 inches big. Little Suzie sees a copy at her next match, and buys the paper herself and quickly cuts off the back page and sticks it on her bedroom wall, and almost every day thereafter, sees it once and dreams of being Kara Clubber Lang, playing for her Canada. Alternately, the paper didn't print, and little Suzie never saw the montage at the game and won't see it unless she fires up the computer at home, fires up the browser, closes all those spams!! and browses to exactly the right website, and by chance, there it is, a jpg onscreen. Maybe that's all she's got, a 4 inch screen thumbnail, and she copies it, and saves it to a folder, out-of=sight and mind, and maybe there, because it wasn't big and glorious, she quickly forgets or dismisses it, after first emailing the wee pic to few friends. Lang in miniature (and the dream) just died an early death. Even if Suzie printed such, she does need of course a printer, and some decent paper, and the time and inclination to do so. Again, that's; go home, turn on computer, load browser, find website, find page and picture, copy picture, save picture, print picture, paste on wall... all 4 inches of it!!!! quote: "Instead of a male demographic perhaps a secondary female demographic focus might be more suitable." reply: No offense intended Joe but you really haven't read many issues have you. We've featured more women's football than any other pub I know including dozens of pages (and covers) on the u19 and WWC's, since 2002. Brittany Timko doesn't subscribe for no reason! We should have more still but we have more than anyone as is, including regular standings of MWSL (biggest league here) and entusiastic reports from the Kelowna league, plus all Provincial cup battles and of course the Whitecaps women. About 25% of our subscribers are women, and possibly more off the newsstand. Our women readers are also, generally, the more enthusiastic and proactive, and, oddly enough, in great numbers, perfectly ok with Posterboy, a little irreverance and a few tame naughty bits. quote: "Speaking of Elaine, going after her was again patronizing and classless. She's the hardest working loyal fan in the country, it's her personal website (she can run it how she pleases) and she gets grief from WFP? It smacks of jealousy over someone who is able to have close contact with the women's programs over us here that have none whatsoever with the men (excluding Jeffrey's recent venture). reply: Way off target amigo. I didn't go after her but rather the tyranical web posting rules, of which a dozen WFP readers alerted me to. It may be a personally built site but she has positioned such as the source for women's Canadiana and therefore now has an obligation to extend that presense beyond personal whim and fancy - just as I do with WFP. "Jealously"!!!! oh dear Joe, that is silly. Believe me, I can admire her for her efforts but never have I remotely succumbed to jealously - I have no need or fuel to. If I want fluff and bubbles I can drop by GoBigRed like anyone else and feed off Elaine's intimate moments with the players, but if I want a decent, objective interview I can just as easily call Timko tomorrow or meet Amber Allen for a coffee (who, by the way, thought WFP's take on her company, Capleoa, was the best interview she's ever done. Na na na-na na :-) Jealousy!!! like oh my god girlfriend! And hey, on "getting grief", I will repeat this, as I thrice reminded Elaine in personal emails; despite our difference in style I spent the first 3 years of WFP promoting her site, online and in print. She never, ever returned the favour, and refused to explain why, or simply, return a single email. If I have given her grief beyond the Forum rules, she's likely deserving of it, as we've both tried to prosper the women's game, yet she chose to ignore WFP's efforts. Maybe you should discuss jealously issues with Elaine, not myself! quote: "you seem to say we owe you something" reply: I've never said such, ever, but rather bleeted for years about the glory of mutual cooperation leading to mutual benefit - something this community has not grasped. Do Voyageurs OWE me a simple weblink? No. But is it in their/our best interests to provide one without me begging for it? Yes. Do the CSA, or any club OWE WFP anything at all, including page sponsorshop? No. But again, it doesn't take a bloody rocket scientist to figure out if you help WFP help you, no one loses. And all I've tried to do (with my contributors) is demonstrate that we can build a forum for our news, and if the big corporations won't support us, we have ways of supporting ourselves. It's curious to note how everyone I know to be truly supportive of WFP's efforts has never seen that given scenario for mutual benefit as "YOU OWE ME", but rather, exactly what it is, a call to arms to this community to pull its collective finger out of its ass, and help WFP build the coverage they keep bitchin for!!! quote: "If your magazine had more similar philosophies with what I believe I'd help you out the best I could." reply: Are you suggesting that doing all we can to print the exploits of all from u9 Wildcat girls to Canada on the road to the World Cup, is not in tune with your philosophy of prospering the Canadian game?!!! Or are you suggesting that although we do that, you don't like Posterboy, or a wee piss-taking here or there and are therefore ready to bench the entire effort?!!! Should the former be true, I am at a loss. Should it be the latter, you should apply that philosophy to every other literary venue in your universe, at which point you'll have to face the fact there's almost nothing out there that will keep you happy. Thanks regardless for your backhanded, best of luck finale. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_n/a1394647443 Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 What you posted above was fair I just don't agree with much of it. I probably shouldn't have posted but Cheeta mentioned me twice and I felt I should respond. Alas, some things are better left unsaid. We disagree on some basic philosophies and that's fine. I don't appreciate your ideals but that doesn't mean I don't want you to succeed. It's just that I would be more than a hypocrite than I already am to contribute to something in whose basic tenets I don't subscribe. (Pardon the expression) Not that you asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wfp Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 In all sincerity, would you mind explaining to me what you believe my ideals are - specifically the ones you don't subscribe to. I believe I made some very good points above and dispelled many of your claims, yet you offer a blanket disagreement and snubbing for all. That's not entirely fair now is it, since I addressed your concerns one by one. Thanks. I did enjoy the closing pun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 quote:Originally posted by wfp quote: "First, why is it called World Football Pages?" ...... North Americans are notorious for doing such and you may have noticed, most of the universe doesn't really give a toss about what NA's are ....... NA stands almost entirely alone with the term "soccer" and have snubbed those traditions in doing so. Add cheerleaders and a 35 yard Penalty Kick, and presto, you've managed to alienate oneself from the global community. I scrap with conventions all the time Joe, but not this one. The game is FOOTBALL, as is the paper (as BTW are the recently renamed Vancouver Whitecaps FC (not SC). In the English speaking world, a far greater number of people refer to the game as "soccer" rather than "Football". In terms of numbers, its not even close. And it not just Canada and the US. as far as english speaking countries I am quite certain that the term "soccer" is used in more countries ( where english is common used) than the term soccer. Including, Australia, Ireland, South Africa, various Carribean nations just to name a few. As far as I know, the term "Football" is used only in Great britain. I have to agree with Joe completely on this point. To be perfectly honnest, when the name of this publication began floating around in various post on the discussion fourm, I had assummed that it was a British publication. I did not know that it was a Canadian. The reason that I assumed this was the name "Football". As far as cheerleaders. There are cheerleaders at soccer games in many venues throughout the world. I recall someone mentioning that West Ham has cheerleaders. Hard to get mor hardcore than West Ham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarnCherry Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 You guys are bitching about the term "football"? Give me a break. Speaking of Australia they just renamed their league as a "football" league. Getting back to cheerleaders, does West Ham have them doing their schtick while the game is being played? Do they do it like in Minnesota where the fans have to beg for the cheerleaders to not block their view of the game doing silly pyramids and such crap? quote:In Canada, the parent who wakes up at six a.m. to take their kid to hockey practice is lionized. (Tim Horton commercials et al) The soccer mom who car pools four kids to their biweekly soccer game is ridiculed. What defines a soccer mom? To me and many others the term is not used to define a mom that carpools their kids to biweekly soccer games. It is used to define a mom that takes her kid to pro-games, lets them run around while she spends the game not watching the sport but yapping to her fellow soccer mom friend. She basically uses the game as another parent would a day in the park or playground. She then feels the need to complain because the language at said pro soccer game is not to her liking both in the stands and on the field. Soccer moms love all of the extra curricular crap because it keeps their kid entertained. They piss real soccer fans off because the teams in the league seem to want to cater to those soccer moms. In regards to the USL-1 the teams that seem to focus on what the soccer moms want always have the lowest attendance averages each year-thats a fact. Soccer dads also exist. Case in point was the man from Virginia Beach who was so upset that a Portland player on the weekend used a profanity that his daughter could hear. On USL discussions he was complaining thta his daughter is going to feel it's okay to flip of her coach in PE because she saw a pro player do it at a soccer game. This person feels sports athletes should be roll models for his kid not himself. That is what a soccer mom/dad is. Not merely some parent that takes his/her kid to soccer games. How often do you see the "lionized" hockey parent, taking their kid to a hockey game, letting their kids run around the arena not watching the hockey, complaining that the hockey games are too rough with too much swearing, and yapping the soccer mom mantra "please, remember the children"? Hockey parents for the most case aren't getting ridiculed because they aren't for the most case big pussies like soccer moms/dads are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted September 5, 2005 Author Share Posted September 5, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Free kick In the English speaking world, a far greater number of people refer to the game as "soccer" rather than "Football". In terms of numbers, its not even close. And it not just Canada and the US. as far as english speaking countries I am quite certain that the term "soccer" is used in more countries ( where english is common used) than the term soccer. Including, Australia, Ireland, South Africa, various Carribean nations just to name a few. As far as I know, the term "Football" is used only in Great britain. I have to agree with Joe completely on this point. To be perfectly honnest, when the name of this publication began floating around in various post on the discussion fourm, I had assummed that it was a British publication. I did not know that it was a Canadian. The reason that I assumed this was the name "Football". As far as cheerleaders. There are cheerleaders at soccer games in many venues throughout the world. I recall someone mentioning that West Ham has cheerleaders. Hard to get mor hardcore than West Ham. Interesting how a British publication, which has been around for some 40 odd years, chose to call itself World Soccer</u>. The Canadian Soccer</u> Association, and the United States Soccer</u> Federation have both avoided use of the word Football, in order to avoid confusion. Even the Voyageurs call themselves Canadian Soccer</u> Supporters. You appear to have really missed the boat on this one Chris. In Canada the game is called SOCCER</u>! No ifs, ands, or buts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 Couple of things. 1st). Fair enough Joe. Got to ask. I like the Canucks abroad idea and am just going to steal others work until I can nag them into compliance. Credit given where credit is due of course. There's nothing sinister about it I'm just trying to spread the good word and see this as a great avenue. 2nd). Sent you a rather long winded e-mail Gordon. If it doesn't show let me know and we'll give it another go. 3rd). Sent Chris an e-mail as well, waiting on a reply. I've got one of them there anti-virus, anti-spam thingys so if it got nuked, my apologies and we'll try this from square 1 a-gin. 4th). Man, who'd have thought Poster Boy would be such a flash point? Not me. I think it's pretty damned funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarnCherry Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Cheeta Couple of things. from square 1 a-gin. 4th). Man, who'd have thought Poster Boy would be such a flash point? Not me. I think it's pretty damned funny. Making an issue of (getting upset about) Poster Boy is the perfect soccer mom/dad mentality and a reason why people make fun of the soccer/mom dad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted September 6, 2005 Share Posted September 6, 2005 Those who admire or approve of soccerboy and everything the image represents regrettably epitomise the lowest common denominator of the sport. That fact that Krammerhead doesn't see any problem is no surprise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wfp Posted September 6, 2005 Share Posted September 6, 2005 I can't believe I have to explain this. I can't believe such an assinine statement as, "As far as I know, the term "Football" is used only in Great britain." - courtesy of FREE KICK. FIFA - Fédération Internationale de Football Association. Please note for future reference; this is the football world's governing body – not in Great britain (with a little 'b'). Also, please note that the International Olympic Committee refers to the game as football. And oh, they are also not in Great Britain!! These two organisations alone represent almost the entire sporting universe. Shall we continue naming those national federations/associations that use the term Football, or at least their language equivalent. Let's just begin with Argentina's AFA from South America. Bahamas BFA representing the Caribbean delegation, maybe the French and their European-based FFF would join us, as would Australia's FFA on behalf of Oceania. And because no-one can tolerate a blithering idiot, even the Afghanistan Football Federation (AFF) is showing up to advise FREE KICK that even the CFA (China) are hooked on 'FOOTBALL' and to-date, none of these countries are found in Great Britain!!!! Get bloody serious if you're going to knock around a few 'facts'. Bottom line. Like it or not, the game is football, and neither you nor I, no-matter where we live, have a even half a right to change what the global community subscribes to, just because North Americans were so amazingly dense that they couldn't dream up an original name for their own game of 'football'. Had they been bright enough, we wouldn't be having this debate. That said, 'soccer' is a British term, believed to be an extraction of the original designation, [Assoc]iation Football, which back in the late 1800's defined our game from other football variations of the day, including rugby football. Clubs such as Sunderland AFC continue that trend today - Association Football Club. And today, a great deal of people worldwide, of all tongues, use the nickname soccer. Yet ask them to clarify what they mean, and they'll offer you 'Football' or Futbol or whatever. You play what you like ok, and I'll play the world's game... football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarnCherry Posted September 6, 2005 Share Posted September 6, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Richard Those who admire or approve of soccerboy and everything the image represents regrettably epitomise the lowest common denominator of the sport. That fact that Krammerhead doesn't see any problem is no surprise. Bleep you, you worthless prick. You want to make personal comments to me please do it to my face, next game at Swangard. I will be waiting at the north side closest the grandstand next to the VIP. You want to call me the lowest common denominator of this sport then I guess I'd better oblige. I think the lowest common denominator of the sport are pussies like you who need to grow yourself a pair, instead of throwing out personal insults because people disagree with you. I don't have a problem with posterboy so I am somehow the lowest common denominator while you are superior? What an arrogant prick. I've read so many posts by you on this board that sounded like they were posted by a rhesus monkey but you didn't see me insulting you. You want to insult me, do it to my face. Bag of wank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted September 6, 2005 Share Posted September 6, 2005 Once again you confirm my point for me in every possible respect - you just don't learn do you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wfp Posted September 6, 2005 Share Posted September 6, 2005 Ok, ok, but you gotta admit, "bag of wank" is pretty funny :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted September 6, 2005 Author Share Posted September 6, 2005 It's a sad reflection that a defunct soccer publication is primarily remembered through being represented by the image of Posterboy. From a business point of view, did Chris ever ask himself if there are more Krammerheads or more Richards out there interested in buying his paper? It's a shame that you continue to dissintigrate yourself on this thread, this time by stating that we "gotta admit" that one of your recent contributors being called "a bag of wank" is pretty funny. Many people, Free kick, Richard, Joe, and myself amongst others have tried to be supportive of your efforts, despite not always agreeing with your perspectives. And each time we have pointed out something you don't agree with, you have retalliated and disrespected all of us. Even if you were able to re-finance and start up WFP in the future, I would not be inclined to buy a copy. As we amazingly dense North Americans sing; "Nah, nah, nah, nah... Nah, nah, nah, nah... Hey, hey, hey... Bye, bye." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analyst Posted September 6, 2005 Share Posted September 6, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Robert Many people, Free kick, Richard, Joe, and myself amongst others have tried to be supportive of your efforts, despite not always agreeing with your perspectives. And each time we have pointed out something you don't agree with, you have retaliated and disrespected all of us. Even if you were able to re-finance and start up WFP in the future, I would not be inclined to buy a copy. The WFP should still be bought. We need it because the major papers are too busy with the NHL, the CFL, major league baseball, and non-sports like golf and darts. It also doesn't accept all the dishonest press releases put out by the CSA and the Provincial Associations. As the song goes "You don't know what you've got till its gone....". It may not be perfect, but its a lot better than the alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussoccerfan Posted September 6, 2005 Share Posted September 6, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Krammerhead What defines a soccer mom? To me and many others the term is not used to define a mom that carpools their kids to biweekly soccer games. It is used to define a mom that takes her kid to pro-games, lets them run around while she spends the game not watching the sport but yapping to her fellow soccer mom friend. She basically uses the game as another parent would a day in the park or playground. She then feels the need to complain because the language at said pro soccer game is not to her liking both in the stands and on the field. Soccer moms love all of the extra curricular crap because it keeps their kid entertained. They piss real soccer fans off because the teams in the league seem to want to cater to those soccer moms. In regards to the USL-1 the teams that seem to focus on what the soccer moms want always have the lowest attendance averages each year-thats a fact. Soccer dads also exist. Case in point was the man from Virginia Beach who was so upset that a Portland player on the weekend used a profanity that his daughter could hear. On USL discussions he was complaining thta his daughter is going to feel it's okay to flip of her coach in PE because she saw a pro player do it at a soccer game. This person feels sports athletes should be roll models for his kid not himself. That is what a soccer mom/dad is. Not merely some parent that takes his/her kid to soccer games. That sounds like the truth. quote:Originally posted by Krammerhead How often do you see the "lionized" hockey parent, taking their kid to a hockey game, letting their kids run around the arena not watching the hockey, complaining that the hockey games are too rough with too much swearing, and yapping the soccer mom mantra "please, remember the children"? Hockey parents for the most case aren't getting ridiculed because they aren't for the most case big pussies like soccer moms/dads are. I've heard a lot of fans use bad language at Junior-A hockey games in Truro NS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue and White Army Posted September 6, 2005 Share Posted September 6, 2005 "Bag of wank" is one of the entries in the British Swear Machine (or whatever it's called), as posted by K-head on the Southsiders board a year or so back. Good times. Richard... sorry, but you're being an elitist prick. If you take sport (and its related figures) so seriously, you're really not enjoying it properly. Posterboy is a laugh. Psychoanalysis is not necessary, nor wanted. Robert... I'm born and raised in Canada, and I call it football. It's a ball game, played with feet. Hence football. It can also be called soccer, as it often is in England, but the real name is football, and everybody knows it. If soccer moms get confused... well, who cares? And as for WFP's name being confusing.... there's a bloody soccer ball on the cover of every issue of WFP, if people are too thick/insular to figure it out. Really, people. Have you nothing better to do than take cheap jibes and play devil's advocate just for the sake of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted September 7, 2005 Author Share Posted September 7, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Blue and White Army "Bag of wank" is one of the entries in the British Swear Machine (or whatever it's called), as posted by K-head on the Southsiders board a year or so back. Good times. Richard... sorry, but you're being an elitist prick. If you take sport (and its related figures) so seriously, you're really not enjoying it properly. Posterboy is a laugh. Psychoanalysis is not necessary, nor wanted. Robert... I'm born and raised in Canada, and I call it football. It's a ball game, played with feet. Hence football. It can also be called soccer, as it often is in England, but the real name is football, and everybody knows it. If soccer moms get confused... well, who cares? And as for WFP's name being confusing.... there's a bloody soccer ball on the cover of every issue of WFP, if people are too thick/insular to figure it out. Really, people. Have you nothing better to do than take cheap jibes and play devil's advocate just for the sake of it? It doesn't matter which sport we think is justified or entitled to call itself football, the fact of the matter is that the vast majority of Canadians and Americans, regardless of where they were born, don't think of soccer when they hear the word football. Therefore, I find it was not a very astute move from a marketing point of view, to go against the perception of the majority of consumers. Again, this thread's intention was to examine what a potential Canadian soccer reading market is looking for, rather than an attack on Chris. So far, it appears that in Canada and the U.S. the choice of the word soccer in the title of a publication might be preferred over football. It also seems that the never-ceasing Posterboy issue fell on ignorant deaf ears. The exhausting mention of Posterboy over the course of this ignorant image's life may have provided crucial customer feedback to one willing to listen and think about. However, egged on by the likes of Krammerhead et al (I don't give a poop where you sit at Swangard), and the self admitted influence of smoking something better (like what was the business point of that?), resulted in the PosterBoy Lives campaign cause Chris wants it that way. The lack of growth, and the unwillingness to change, both must have played significant and contributing roles in the fact that WFP is not for sale today. Hopefully these findings will prove usefull to anyone considering to launch a Canadian soccer publication in the future. Chris may have been wiser to adopt a position taken by Alfons, which has been to listen and learn, instead of defending and attacking each shortcoming pointed out. No where in all his posts does Chris accept any responsibility himself for the failings of WFP, and that just about says it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 OK, so you consider me a member of the elite - too bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analyst Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Robert Chris's biggest failing was putting so much money into WFP over the years, and his second biggest failing was starting WFP in the first place. There are not enough people who care about soccer in Canada to make it financially sound. The lack of a sound soccer culture is also what prevents us from being ranked in the top 20 in mens soccer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ref Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Free kick As far as I know, the term "Football" is used only in Great britain. Just to set the record straight. In all of South America the game is called "fútbol". Not just in Great britain. Should WFP endure, I will continue to subscribe; football, posterboy and all. I am a footballer not a soccerballer and I abide by football rules even in Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 quote:Originally posted by wfp I can't believe I have to explain this. I can't believe such an assinine statement as, "As far as I know, the term "Football" is used only in Great britain." - courtesy of FREE KICK. FIFA - Fédération Internationale de Football Association. Please note for future reference; this is the football world's governing body – not in Great britain (with a little 'b'). Also, please note that the International Olympic Committee refers to the game as football. And oh, they are also not in Great Britain!! These two organisations alone represent almost the entire sporting universe. Shall we continue naming those national federations/associations that use the term Football, or at least their language equivalent. Let's just begin with Argentina's AFA from South America. Bahamas BFA representing the Caribbean delegation, maybe the French and their European-based FFF would join us, as would Australia's FFA on behalf of Oceania. And because no-one can tolerate a blithering idiot, even the Afghanistan Football Federation (AFF) is showing up to advise FREE KICK that even the CFA (China) are hooked on 'FOOTBALL' and to-date, none of these countries are found in Great Britain!!!! Get bloody serious if you're going to knock around a few 'facts'. Bottom line. Like it or not, the game is football, and neither you nor I, no-matter where we live, have a even half a right to change what the global community subscribes to, just because North Americans were so amazingly dense that they couldn't dream up an original name for their own game of 'football'. Had they been bright enough, we wouldn't be having this debate. That said, 'soccer' is a British term, believed to be an extraction of the original designation, [Assoc]iation Football, which back in the late 1800's defined our game from other football variations of the day, including rugby football. Clubs such as Sunderland AFC continue that trend today - Association Football Club. And today, a great deal of people worldwide, of all tongues, use the nickname soccer. Yet ask them to clarify what they mean, and they'll offer you 'Football' or Futbol or whatever. You play what you like ok, and I'll play the world's game... football. Fine then. call it "football" I personally don't care. But if I see it on a magazine shelf, I am going to assume that it is a British publication. So, if I am looking for Canadian content, I will not expect to find on that kind of mag. with that title. I don't think that I am alone in thinking this way, otherwise the Canadian soccer association would be called the Canadian Football association. And, You wouldn't see the term Soccer used anywhere in the media. hey, I am just offering my opinion on product name and what I believe will sell. ignore it if you want. I thought that I went to great lenghts to stress that I was referring to the english speaking cultures when discussing soccer vs football. Of course it called Futbol in many parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted September 7, 2005 Author Share Posted September 7, 2005 quote:Originally posted by analyst Then how do you account for the senior women's national team accomplishing this feat in that same lacking culture. Our soccer culture is as historic and passionate as any, that is not where our failings lie. Neither is it a matter of financial shortcomings, we are significantly more wealthy than many nations who are way more successful on the field. So I wonder what really prevents us from succeeding? Could it be just like the producer of WFP, that soccer in this country is still controlled by expatriots from the Old World, who are unwilling to change and adapt to a new culture? Of all the associations and federations in CONCACAF, none appear to be controlled by as many English/Scottish/Italian surnames as Canada does. It is time for Canadian soccer to progress beyond the perception of being that "immigrant game." The United States has proven to be an exemplary role model in this department. The Anti North American sentiment shared by people like Chris has to go, along with that wannabe hooligan PosterBoy mentallity. Chris a hooligan? Give me an F-ing break. Is Chris a real usefull lad for physical combat? Just be yourself Chris, cause you sure ain't no hooligan. I'm tired too, of having guys, who sound like they just stepped off the boat from Scotland, running the game in Canada. The CSA's president should be able to converse in both of Canada's official languages, thereby being capable of communicating with Canadian from all parts of the country. Never mind this poop about having a pint with the lads and having a chat about the exploits of Partick Thistles. How Canadian is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wfp Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 So much diatribe, so much nonsense, so desperate to respond but I promised I wouldn't engage Robert in any more pissing matches... so I won't. But I will thank those who had something positive and constructive to say, and those who offered something negative but equally contructive. And in addition to Analyst's recent post (bless him!), I'll add this... my third biggest failing was that it took me four years to learn what the Christians still haven't figured out in 2,000 years... faith is all very nice but in the end, faith alone will get you nowhere. I honestly believed our football community would eventually recognise the possibilities that WFP put before them, and take advantage of such in ways that would help us grow this paper for everyone's benefit and so I put my heart and soul and bank account into developing those possibilities. That said, many have, both contributors, readers and advertisers, and they are brilliant for it, and forever have my gratitude. Sure, I didn't get it all right, but the product was always developing and one day truly may have reached everyone's corner of soccerdom. We still may. I'm very pleased to note, that despite the lunatic rantings to the contrary, WFP has grown. I steadied the paper at 20 pages and our advertiser base had grown enough to break even on production costs (prior to July's radical increase) and our readership continued to grow right across the country (men and women) and always it seems, someone talented and dedicated has stepped up to the plate to offer all manner of content. It's just unfortunate that a great deal of the magistrates of our game have fallen way short of the support mentioned above. They have their reasons, including Posterboy!!, apathy, politics, lack of vision to see anything beyond their playing field, and a lack of respect for the notion that WFP was/is a forum for everyone's game, not just theirs. With what little resources I have, I have failed to awaken such individuals from their slumber. I had faith in myself that eventually I could and would. So in many ways I personally failed... failed to find the revenue to promote and expand the product in manners that may have offset that general apathy out there. The same sort of apathy that dictates that even after a Voyageurs weblink has been recently mentioned/requested (again) half a dozen times by now, there still isn't one!!!! Oh dear, I've failed again... to convince even the Voyageurs magistrates that it's in their best interest to support WFP. A silly example I suppose, but one that demonstrates to the naysayers that nomatter how much faith, nomatter how much effort, some things are simply not possible!!! Still, while many have already written off WFP prematurely, I continue to strive to get it back on the shelf. The contributors are still gladly willing, the readers are still calling wondering where the paper is, and love em to death, not one of our hundreds of subscribers have asked for refund. They wait quietly for a relaunch. They, it seems, want WFP more than they want to excersise an opportunity to get selfish and nasty and damn the universe, or this paper for its shortcommings. As we rant, I am currently in negotiations with a number of clubs and associations incl. the CSA and the BCSA. My request for sponsorship based on mutual benefit has not entirely fallen on Robert-like ears. Over the next few weeks I will have a much better idea of whether WFP can live in print again. I hope so. And despite all I've learned, I remain a blithering idiot as Inside Soccer Radio whimsically suggests, because even today, I still have faith that WFP is the wealth of possibilities that it should be, and I still have faith that out there somewhere, are many amazing individuals who can see those possibilities and make the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 The CSA? Fu'k.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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