ted Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Elias Let me try asking once more: So what?? Whoever is looking to invest in MLS, Option B is NOT a 10 team CSL. It's like saying the money for one MLS team can feed half of Africa. Yeah, so?? Not actually a reasonable comparison because I am speaking from a soccer fans persepective while you are speaking from the business persepective. Let me ask you, if investing in an MLS team is far more risky and less likely to earn a profit than buying Treasury Bills or MacDonald's Franchises why are you not advocating that MLSE invest $27M in something that will actually make a profit? MLS has certainly NOT been profitable over the 10 years it has been running. Very few soccer teams on this planet earn profit for their coporate owners. Anyone claiming that owning a soccer team is an out and out business decision based on best return for money is out to lunch. From the soccer perspective more players playing pro soccer is better than a few players playing at a higher level in Canada. For the higher level they can play in MLS, England, Italy, Germany, wherever. What we need is a place for journeyman and young players to develop. In the long term we would be better served on the field by a national league. That's just my opinion as a soccer fan. Corporate profits are a neccesary evil when speaking about sport but they will never take over as the primary consideration for me. I may be old-fashioned but sport should be about competition first and foremost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 quote:Originally posted by ted Not actually a reasonable comparison because I am speaking from a soccer fans persepective while you are speaking from the business persepective. Let me ask you, if investing in an MLS team is far more risky and less likely to earn a profit than buying Treasury Bills or MacDonald's Franchises why are you not advocating that MLSE invest $27M in something that will actually make a profit? MLS has certainly NOT been profitable over the 10 years it has been running. Very few soccer teams on this planet earn profit for their coporate owners. Anyone claiming that owning a soccer team is an out and out business decision based on best return for money is out to lunch. From the soccer perspective more players playing pro soccer is better than a few players playing at a higher level in Canada. For the higher level they can play in MLS, England, Italy, Germany, wherever. What we need is a place for journeyman and young players to develop. In the long term we would be better served on the field by a national league. That's just my opinion as a soccer fan. Corporate profits are a neccesary evil when speaking about sport but they will never take over as the primary consideration for me. I may be old-fashioned but sport should be about competition first and foremost. What?!? I guess I'm reading wrong, cause it seems like you are the one who keeps trying to present this as a sound business proposal. MLS is more risky than McDonalds, but the potential (read fantasy - NFL type dollars) is huge. That's why people keep investing not only in MLS but in all sorts of tier-2 (and a lot lower) sports like indoor lacrosse, field lacrosse, arena football, semi-pro hockey leagues, minor league baseball, etc. and whatever other crap ESPN2 shows like X-Games and the rest. If you base your argument on patriotism and developing soccer players, that's completely different than trying to present your plan as a serious investment proposal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 quote:Originally posted by ted Not actually a reasonable comparison because I am speaking from a soccer fans persepective while you are speaking from the business persepective. Let me ask you, if investing in an MLS team is far more risky and less likely to earn a profit than buying Treasury Bills or MacDonald's Franchises why are you not advocating that MLSE invest $27M in something that will actually make a profit? MLS has certainly NOT been profitable over the 10 years it has been running. Very few soccer teams on this planet earn profit for their coporate owners. Anyone claiming that owning a soccer team is an out and out business decision based on best return for money is out to lunch. From the soccer perspective more players playing pro soccer is better than a few players playing at a higher level in Canada. For the higher level they can play in MLS, England, Italy, Germany, wherever. What we need is a place for journeyman and young players to develop. In the long term we would be better served on the field by a national league. That's just my opinion as a soccer fan. Corporate profits are a neccesary evil when speaking about sport but they will never take over as the primary consideration for me. I may be old-fashioned but sport should be about competition first and foremost. What?!? I guess I'm reading wrong, cause it seems like you are the one who keeps trying to present this as a sound business proposal. MLS is more risky than McDonalds, but the potential (read fantasy - NFL type dollars) is huge. That's why people keep investing not only in MLS but in all sorts of tier-2 (and a lot lower) sports like indoor lacrosse, field lacrosse, arena football, semi-pro hockey leagues, minor league baseball, etc. and whatever other crap ESPN2 shows like X-Games and the rest. If you base your argument on patriotism and developing soccer players, that's completely different than trying to present your plan as a serious investment proposal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 Ted, upon what 'facts' are you basing your budget estimates? Regrettably I find your whole case unconvincing for a whole slew of reasons and clearly I am not the only one who does in light of the current direction being taken by the CSA and those who have the the savvy and wield the, power, money and influence to implement such a plan. Please do not presume that these people have not considered something along the lines you have been promoting no matter how fleetingly. For the few years during which the original CSL was thriving there was no continental USL and certainly no billionnaire backed MLS run by savvy and experienced business people looking to expand their operation into Canada and perhaps even Mexico. Times have changed Ted and so have circumstances. And just in case you have another fit of apoplexy, because I disagree with you does not mean I dislike you personally! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 Ted, upon what 'facts' are you basing your budget estimates? Regrettably I find your whole case unconvincing for a whole slew of reasons and clearly I am not the only one who does in light of the current direction being taken by the CSA and those who have the the savvy and wield the, power, money and influence to implement such a plan. Please do not presume that these people have not considered something along the lines you have been promoting no matter how fleetingly. For the few years during which the original CSL was thriving there was no continental USL and certainly no billionnaire backed MLS run by savvy and experienced business people looking to expand their operation into Canada and perhaps even Mexico. Times have changed Ted and so have circumstances. And just in case you have another fit of apoplexy, because I disagree with you does not mean I dislike you personally! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David C. Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 Hey Ted, thanks for taking the time to address my questions. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David C. Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 Hey Ted, thanks for taking the time to address my questions. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Richard And just in case you have another fit of apoplexy, because I disagree with you does not mean I dislike you personally! No worries on that. You almost attempted to actually engage in discussion with this post. I am sorry the label "FACTS:" made it confusing for your to distinguish between facts and analysis. As I tried to indicate before, for my analysis to be PROVEN right or wrong it would require an investment in research that I cannot make at this time. Disagree with me if you like, challenge my analysis all you like but if you are a civilised adult engaging in reasoned debate then stop using demeaning phrases like "fairy tales". (That goes for you too Elias.) Anyway, I have already said this is all a big "what-if" exercise. It's not like I'm saying it could happen now that is appears MLS will be coming to Canada. Sheesh! [] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 OK Ted, I am sorry you find relatively innocuous and at least non-vulgar metaphors to be personally insulting, but by your own admission your scheme for a CSL2 is a a "big what-if exercise" which you admit is very unlikely to happen. Well if anything satifies the 'fairytale' and 'dreaming in technicolour' descriptors that does. I think it is the realisation that I am correct that you are finding upsetting, not the words I use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Richard I think it is the realisation that I am correct that you are finding upsetting, not the words I use. Interesting, since you are not correct nor have you even bothered to defend your anti-thesis with any facts or reasoned analysis. Simply because we appear to be stuck with the MLS option in no way proves that my ideas about the CSL2 are not viable. They will simply not be tested. [8D] Simply declaring victory might work in a US Presidential Election but it does not make you correct. I choose to respectfully disagree. I am disappointed you choose otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Elias What?!? I guess I'm reading wrong, cause it seems like you are the one who keeps trying to present this as a sound business proposal. [snip] If you base your argument on patriotism and developing soccer players, that's completely different than trying to present your plan as a serious investment proposal. I am sorry if that was not clear. This thread has a history that stretches back over 6 years and I too easily assume anyone entering into the discussion has at least a sense of the background. I am trying to present a scheme that will develop soccer players in this country which will allow them to reach their full potential and as a group represent us at the World Cup. The business plan is to show that it is possible, that a league could be viable. I make no claims whatsoever about profitability. The only way a large corporation gains anything out of a soccer team is as a tax write-off, promotional tool of questionable value, and a contribution to the community. I have serious doubts that MLSE will ever make a dime from an MLS team in real profit. They will be investors in a league which has NEVER made profit. A purely business/profit oriented team run by MLSE also has me worried for the future. What if they do not make enough profit? They simply shut down the team and all our World Cup hopes go down the toilet again? Does that better explain the dreamworld I am coming from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 quote:Originally posted by ted Interesting, since you are not correct nor have you even bothered to defend your anti-thesis with any facts or reasoned analysis. Simply because we appear to be stuck with the MLS option in no way proves that my ideas about the CSL2 are not viable. They will simply not be tested. [8D] Simply declaring victory might work in a US Presidential Election but it does not make you correct. I choose to respectfully disagree. I am disappointed you choose otherwise. My opinion about the non-viability of your thesis is no less valid than your opinion that it is viable. I suggest however that since nobody with the resources to pursue your option in - how many years has it been since the original little CSL collapsed? - has seen fit to do so, that perhaps the balance swings in my favour. I rest my case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooks Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 Give it a rest, gentlemen. This dead horse has been beaten into dust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Cooks Give it a rest, gentlemen. This dead horse has been beaten into dust. If the subject matter bores you why open the thread, just skip over it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Cooks Give it a rest, gentlemen. This dead horse has been beaten into dust. I'd like to second that motion. Better yet I'd love to see Richard have his own board called "The Business of Sports," where he can babble on endlessly about matters which are neither business, nor sport -perversely fulfilling his boyhood wetdream of becoming a high school debate champion. Oh wait, maybe he already has: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Cooks Give it a rest, gentlemen. This dead horse has been beaten into dust. I'd like to second that motion. Better yet I'd love to see Richard have his own board called "The Business of Sports," where he can babble on endlessly about matters which are neither business, nor sport -perversely fulfilling his boyhood wetdream of becoming a high school debate champion. Oh wait, maybe he already has: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 Yet again you confirm your vulgar lack of class. I trust you are not representative of the typical Voyageur because if you are then it is a sad, sad group of crude, juvenile misfits. Time to grow up and behave like a mature human being. For a start how about not hiding behind a ridiculous pseudonym like a yellow livered coward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 My full name and email are attached to my profile if you'd like to chat elsewhere. How's that? I speak only for myself, and I can tell you I'm not the ponce who goes online to fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 Actually I have to agree with the sentiment that if the thread isn't of interest to people, there's no obligation to click it open and see what is inside it. For example, I am blissfully unaware of the contents of the Canadian FIFA patch thread because the contents of the thread don't interest me, and I can't say I have the urge to deliberately go into the thread and tell them all to shut up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HamiltonSteelers Posted August 19, 2005 Share Posted August 19, 2005 I agree with you G-L, but I'm sure you only click on a thread that has been recently updated. Instead of seeing new ideas come to light, it is just a thread that keeps spiralling into posturing that is so far off topic, we are discussing it as we are right now. The last two pages of this thread have been far off of "Canadian Players Need A Canadian League" topic, but it's a hope that it gets back on topic, only to have those same hopes dashed after each post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoyleG Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 Back on track now, salaries of Canadians in MLS when the season started (from BigSoccer threads). Johnson $11,700 Brilliant $28,000 Onstad $119,350 DeRosario $95,000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strobe_z Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca Actually I have to agree with the sentiment that if the thread isn't of interest to people, there's no obligation to click it open and see what is inside it. For example, I am blissfully unaware of the contents of the Canadian FIFA patch thread because the contents of the thread don't interest me, and I can't say I have the urge to deliberately go into the thread and tell them all to shut up. ...and count your lucky stars you didn't try - you just don't need that kind of grief. [)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trax Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 Well this are all god idea's, I sincirely beleive that the CSA should get Canadians clubs to join the MLS. Yet I cant stop thinking. Why arent CSA doing anything, is it under such a pour management that it wont even try to improve its system, when this site is proposing such good ideas. I beleive CSA needs a role in management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 Worst. Thread. Revival. Ever. Welcome to the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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