Vancouver Sun: new stadium article

[Johnnie Monster]

Waterfront soccer stadium rumours swirl

Whitecaps' owner believed to be linked to property bought east of SeaBus terminal

Bruce Constantineau

Vancouver Sun

Friday, July 29, 2005

CREDIT: Ian Lindsay, Vancouver Sun

Railway lands east of the SeaBus terminal have been linked to a new soccer stadium.

VANCOUVER - Speculation about a new downtown Vancouver waterfront soccer stadium has reached a fever pitch among city soccer fans after it was learned Fairmont Developments Inc. has sold a seven-hectare rail lands property east of the SeaBus terminal.

The buyer is believed to be a numbered company with links to Vancouver Whitecaps owner Greg Kerfoot.

Whitecaps director of soccer operations Bob Lenarduzzi would not confirm the acquisition Thursday but said the club remains committed to finding a place to build a 15,000-to-20,000-seat downtown Vancouver stadium to replace its current home at Swangard Stadium in Burnaby, with a capacity of 6,800.

"All I can say is we're still pursuing a stadium opportunity in downtown Vancouver," he said in an interview. "Discussions are ongoing."

Vancouver Port Authority vice-president Jim Cox said the Whitecaps approached port officials last year about building a new stadium on port authority land but the port rejected the idea early this year.

"My understanding is that they were dealing with Fairmont to put it on the rail lands," he said.

"Our instruction to Greg Kerfoot and his designer was to not incorporate any port land, so basically it would be on the south side of [Waterfront Road]."

A purchase price for the rail lands has not been disclosed but Fairmont Development's parent company -- Fairmont Hotels & Resorts -- reported the transaction closed on July 14 for an after-tax gain of $17 million.

Convenient access to public transit is a vital consideration for any new Vancouver sports stadium and the rail lands property fits the bill, as it's within walking distance of the SeaBus, SkyTrain and West Coast Express.

Lenarduzzi said Kerfoot, a well-heeled software mogul who bought the Whitecaps two years ago, has spent more than 18 months looking at several potential new stadium sites in Vancouver -- including a property the city favoured near Main and Terminal.

"Swangard has been a great facility for us but given the vision and resources that Greg brings to the table, he obviously feels the time may be right to make a capital investment in a new stadium," he said.

Lenarduzzi noted Kerfoot is prepared to finance a new stadium himself, without any partners.

"He probably wouldn't say no to potential provincial or federal funding but he's not reliant on that at this point," he said.

Vancouver Mayor Larry Campbell said he wholeheartedly supports the Whitecaps' efforts to find a new home in Vancouver but questioned whether any new facility could make it as a soccer venue alone.

"I would like to see something that has soccer, track and maybe even the B.C. Lions," he said in an interview. "But the Lions aren't going anywhere for a while. They're getting 30,000 fans a game and more at B.C. Place."

Lions general manager Bob Ackles said the team is committed to playing at B.C. Place until 2010 and if it moves after that, it would have to be to a stadium that held more than 15,000 to 20,000 seats.

"We'd need a stadium with about 35,000 seats, with the ability to go to 50,000 so we could host Grey Cup games," he said.

Lenarduzzi said that if the Lions are looking for a new playing venue in the future, a proposed new soccer stadium could be expanded to accommodate their needs.

Campbell said the city has not yet seen any formal stadium design plans from the Whitecaps and he has trouble "conceptualizing" the idea of building a stadium over railway tracks.

"But I've talked to people and apparently it's done in other places," he said.

(VanCity Credit Union's head office near Main and Terminal in Vancouver was built directly over SkyTrain tracks.)

CP Rail spokesman Ed Greenberg said the railway's downtown operations will not be curtailed by any new development project on the rail lands.

bconstantineau@png.canwest.com

© The Vancouver Sun 2005

[Passive Observer]

Kerfoot should take the BC politicians to Reading, arrange a tour of the stadium in the morning and then that afternoon take them to either a Arsenal or Chelseas match. The stadium would be approved in a London minute.

[Cooks]

I apologize if this has already been posted, but I could not find it anywhere. It looks like Kenneth Chan was way ahead of the media on this. Most of the info has been posted here, but he scooped it by a number of days.

I found it on a cache of the Urban Vancouver site (I think they got it from Canuck Source): http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:XrDwe52m9CIJ:www.urbanvancouver.com/node/2326+vancouver+whitecaps+stadium&hl=en

WHITECAPS TO BUILD DOWNTOWN WATERFRONT STADIUM Kenneth Chan | 25 Jul 2005

A Canucksource.com Special: EXCLUSIVE

Kenneth Chan

July 26, 2005

Yes, we know, this ain’t hockey but any major sports Vancouver news is newsworthy for Canucksource. We are bringing you exclusive information that no other media outlet or source has knowledge of.

Canucksource.com has learned that Vancouver Whitecaps Football Club owner, Greg Kerfoot, has completed the purchase of waterfront property just east of the downtown Seabus terminal for a 30,000 seat outdoor soccer stadium, expandable to 50,000. A grass pitched stadium right by the ocean with mountain and skyline backdrops at the heart of downtown Vancouver.

This news comes to us via sources at Intrawest, who advise that Kerfoot has made the purchase and is already tendering the building contract. Intrawest is a property managementdevelopment firm that handles large scale land transactions, and owns the Whistler-Blackcomb and Mont Tremblant ski resorts.

This would coincide with additional info received this week from Vancouver city councillor Jim Green, who said the Whitecaps had presented preliminary designs and a full development application to city planners for a site on Coal Harbour (which is precisely where the site touted by the Intrawest sources is).

While 30,000 seats sounds cavernous for a United Soccer League franchise, there will be certain occassions when a stadium that size is absolutely necessary. A new stadium and in a central location will mean more hype from locals and international friendlies, meaning more tickets to be sold. The new location connects the entire Lower Mainland region right on its doorstep: Bus, SkyTrain, Seabus, West Coast Express, and the new RAV line. Not to mention it's basically in Gastown, which already has a huge tourist and pedestrian base. Imagine all those cruise ships full of European and UK tourists coming in to port next door to the stadium. The new site is within walking distance to dozens of pubs, restaurants and cafes catering to all tastes, and the expanded trade & convention centre.

The new stadium will likely be built in time for the FIFA World Youth Soccer Championships in the summer of 2007. This soccer event is second in size to the FIFA World Cup.

It’s a safe bet that at 30,000 seats, Kefoot has Major League Soccer in mind for the Whitecaps and the CFL as a stadium co-tenant. The BC Lions are being courted as potential co-tenants as BC Place's days are numbered as it is rumoured that the stadium will likely be imploded after the Olympics for condos. The team is going to have to go somewhere when the government, which owns the stadium, decides to swing the wrecking ball. Vancouver has never had a sports venue with this much potential for foot traffic and new fan base. The impression Canucksource has gained, certainly for the downtown waterfront location is a multi-use facility especially accommodating for concerts which would make a lot of sense with the harbour and North Shore mountains as a brilliant backdrop. Also, such a small parcel of land would mean it would have to be pretty intimate stadium. It's a plan that's within Kerfoot’s means and it shows tremendous vision for the game in our city.

However, don’t hold your breath for an announcement. We probably won’t hear anything about it for a few months because there's a municipal election coming up in November. The next city council will have to deal with the zoning issues involved in any downtown stadium project. Also, the site we’re talking about happens to border on Vancouver's grungy downtown eastside. In the past, left wing activist groups such as the Downtown Eastside Residents Association have fought tooth and nail against development projects that don't include social housing (seems they want to keep the downtown eastside a pithole forever). If there is a stadium project in the works on this site, then discretion is a good thing. It stops the project from becoming a political issue, and keeps the “Not In My Backyard” (NIMBY) types at bay for now.

The media is a few steps behind on this issue. They are still chasing old rumours about the Main Street & Terminal Avenue site. Clueless as per usual, although we at Canucksource do admit that we were lucky to stumble onto this information.

We're in for some great times on the West Coast. Just watch.

[Vancouversoccerman]

quote:Originally posted by Cooks

However, don’t hold your breath for an announcement. We probably won’t hear anything about it for a few months because there's a municipal election coming up in November. The next city council will have to deal with the zoning issues involved in any downtown stadium project. Also, the site we’re talking about happens to border on Vancouver's grungy downtown eastside. In the past, left wing activist groups such as the Downtown Eastside Residents Association have fought tooth and nail against development projects that don't include social housing (seems they want to keep the downtown eastside a pithole forever). If there is a stadium project in the works on this site, then discretion is a good thing. It stops the project from becoming a political issue, and keeps the “Not In My Backyard” (NIMBY) types at bay for now.

Wow...sounds a bit like something I wrote on this board some weeks ago. In fact, it's taken completely from my post word for word.

Out of curiousity, how many of you guys were plagiarised in this article?

Cheers,

Bill

[Johnnie Monster]

Not only is Kenneth Chan a LAZY PLAGIARIST, he's also a LYING WEASEL (you'll see what I mean below).

He's plagiarized 90 percent of his article. In addition to Vancouversoccerman being ripped off, the rest of his article comes from posts by Snake and myself - VER BATIM - on this board, Big Soccer and the Southsiders!

I wrote to canucksource.com to complain... here's what transpired between us.

My apologies if the language offends anybody

*********************************

The first letter was sent to Kenneth Chan and cc'd to everyone with an e-mail at canucksource.com

quote:Subject: Kenneth Chan is a f---ing plagiarizing clown!

Re: Whitecaps Stadium

Yes, I just LOVED your story about how the inept jokers at Canucksource.com found out this little scoop!

Why don't you give credit where credit is due, you douchebag?

Several members of the Vancouver Southsiders have been working hard to dig up the details on this stadium news for months.

So what do you do? You visit a couple message boards, steal the information that other people have worked hard to get, and then trump it up to make it look like you clowns are breaking this story.

For f--- sake, you were soooooo LAZY you didn't even bother to rewrite the info we uncovered. You just cut n' paste from message boards WORD FOR WORD!

And even then, you STILL managed to f--- up the key details!

Obviously you haven't got a clue what you're talking about, and you certainly don't know how to find your own stories.

F---ing pathetic, dude. That's D-grade yellow journalism at it's worst.

Do your readers a favour and tell them to visit the forum at www.vancouversouthsiders.com if they want to hear the real news first.

Then do the world a favour and swallow a big old bottle of poison.

Suck a dusty nut,

The Vancouver Southsiders

Response from Jason Yong (who runs canucksource.com)

quote:Sorry, I can't seem to find the exact article it was copied from. Could

you please send the link to me and I'll look into it? Thanks.

My response to Jason Yong:

quote:This idiot has cut and pasted most of his paragraphs from posts I have made on various message boards under the user name "Johnnie Monster".

He stole a few paragraphs from a post here:

http://www.usldiscussions.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=003233

He stole several paragraphs from my posts here:

http://www.canadian-soccer.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7381&whichpage=2

I can gladly point out more examples from vancouversouthsiders.com and bigsoccer.com to name a few.

I'm not kidding about this: his only original contribution to this whole article was paragraph 1, paragraph 6, and a little bit at the end of paragraph 7.

I hope to Christ you didn't pay this asshole.

Jason Yong responds back:

quote:Hey Johnnie, I talked to Kenneth (volunteer writer if you were

wondering) and he said that he got all his information from a meeting

that he was part of. He's actually a volunteer for the Vancouver

Whitecaps. If you still think that he copied from you, don't hesistate

to tell us and we'll look at this situation closer. Thanks for your report.

My rant to Jason Yong about the lying little bastard:

quote:Ok, now he's not just a plagiarist. Now he's a god damn liar.

Look at the links I forwarded you. He has cut and pasted text directly out of those websites. WORD FOR WORD.

I'm not talking about a sentence or two. Most of that story was jacked, and he's pulling the wool over your eyes.

Trust me, there are many in our group who also volunteer with the Whitecaps. There was no such meeting.

Think about it. Why would the organization go to great lengths to keep this information under wraps if they were just going to share it with a bunch of low-level volunteers anyway?

Your website's credibility is on the line. If you want to be a trusted "source" for news, reputation is everything.

Right now your reputation is in the dirt. As far as we're concerned, and we'll gladly take every opportunity to let the public know that you put uncreative plagiarists to work on your behalf.

Rectify this now.

Yong's snivelling reply.....

quote:Thanks for your comments. We'll look into this case further and we'll

remove the article from our front page until we know exactly what

happened. Sorry for any troubles that we have caused.

[Cheeta]

That's funny.

Anyway, I hate being told to relax so I won't write that but the articule is down, the wheels of justice are grinding slowly, and in the mean time it's up to their PR guy to deny-deny-deny. Or stall-stall-stall. Whichever.

Still, thanks for sharing. I'll be laughing all evening.

[Johnnie Monster]

I really wouldn't have cared were it not for Kenneth Chan's ridiculous claims about "his" sources at Intrawest (when it was Snake's buddies who leaked) and the conversation "he" supposedly had with councillor Jim Green (again, this was Snake.)

Maybe it's just the cranky old reporter in me... many times reporters at the Sun & Province would pick up on a story I broke in the Burnaby Now (two weeks earlier) and claim to be responsible for the big scoop.

Fookin' scavengers, the lot.

[Cooks]

I love stirring up hornets nests

I thought that some of those lines sounded familiar.

I've been out of town so much lately that I've missed large chunks of the conversation. I do humbly apologize about my praise for the author. I should have known.

[BC supporter]

People steal stuff all the time (see: Taylor, Scott, Winnipeg Free Press). Obviously, with the Internet and the ease in cutting and pasting, it's a growing problem and, consequently, hardly a surprise when discovered. But, personally, I just never cease to be astounded when people plagiarize and then run it WORD FOR WORD. No attempt at all to rephrase or even simply invert the odd sentence. Jesus, do they think no one will ever notice? Or are they just that clueless? Regardless, JM's indigation is well founded.

[Passive Observer]

quote:Originally posted by BC supporter

People steal stuff all the time (see: Taylor, Scott, Winnipeg Free Press). Obviously, with the Internet and the ease in cutting and pasting, it's a growing problem and, consequently, hardly a surprise when discovered. But, personally, I just never cease to be astounded when people plagiarize and then run it WORD FOR WORD. No attempt at all to rephrase or even simply invert the odd sentence. Jesus, do they think no one will ever notice? Or are they just that clueless? Regardless, JM's indigation is well founded.

Exactly my thoughts. Can't believe someone would steal stuff word for word. It's just pure laziness, which is really troubling.

[Vancity Tim]

That's the thing about thieves like that, they are eventually found out and exposed as in the Scott Taylor case. JM, to be honest I am a little surprised you even got a response with the crazed, name calling assault you sent. I realize you are a well informed and regular voice in this Vancouver soccer scene, and I am total rookie, but you are not going to be taken seriously or professionally with that approach. Yes, this guy deserved to by called out and you are understandably fired up, but you come across as low as the plagiarizer when you resort to a name calling rant. Just an opinion from someone well involved in sports media.

[Johnnie Monster]

I had absolutely no expectation of my rant being taken seriously... so I'm just as surprised as you are.

My intent was specifically to cause embarassment for Kenneth Chan - and that's why I cc'd his boss.

It just so happened that by some miracle, his boss seemed to have an actual interest (albeit half-hearted) in following up on my complaint.

My own years in media and PR tell me you're spot on about how to handle a situation like this... that's exactly what I would have done if my real intent was to lodge an official complaint.

Then again, the Southsider in me knows there are times for singing, times for drinking, and times for telling thieving hockey wanks to piss off. This instance was deserving of the latter.

[Richard]

quote:Originally posted by Vancity Tim

That's the thing about thieves like that, they are eventually found out and exposed as in the Scott Taylor case. JM, to be honest I am a little surprised you even got a response with the crazed, name calling assault you sent. I realize you are a well informed and regular voice in this Vancouver soccer scene, and I am total rookie, but you are not going to be taken seriously or professionally with that approach. Yes, this guy deserved to by called out and you are understandably fired up, but you come across as low as the plagiarizer when you resort to a name calling rant. Just an opinion from someone well involved in sports media.

Agreed, a vulgar name calling rant speaks more about the author than the intended target frankly.