If T.O.'s a no go, is there a plan B?

[Robert]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

All of the above is pure speculation. The CSA does not owe Voyageurs or anybody else any preview of their plans and intentions, neither do the organisers of any of the other selected host cities.

I never stated the CSA owed us anything. However, all other national soccer bodies that have hosted championships of this magnatude have always operated up front and provided interested parties with pertinant information. They seem to take the position of feeling they do owe soccer fans and other interested parties the right to be informed of all major developments as they unfold. Sadly, the CSA does not share this perspective. Unfortunately your right Richard, unless the CSA provides us with information of newly developing events, all we have left is pure speculation.

[Robert]

quote:Originally posted by Daniel

Exactly. You can't wait on installations to bid. Imagine if cities did that for the Olympics! You have to build for the event. And that was/is the plan in Montréal, Vancouver and Toronto, with quality stadiums in Edmonton and Ottawa. In what way was this premature? Had the WYC been here in 2009, we would have had the same issues, only two years later.

The Vancouver/Whistler Winter Olympic bid had a number of facilities in place when the bid was made. Ski slopes and hockey areas are ready to host many events. Bobsled and luge runs still need to be constructed. When Kevan Pipe presented the bid for the 2007 WYCs, Canada had only one stadium, of a required six, that met the FIFA standards. I wonder how Kevan Pipe was able to CONvince FIFA that Canada would have another five stadiums ready to go by 2007. I agree with you that in 2009 we would still be confronted by the same dilemma. The CSA might have demonstrated exercising better judgement by waiting untill Canada had at least three or four suitable stadiums built before bidding to host a World Youth Championship.

[The Ref]

If the CSA's silence does not answer their vision statement question of "how does this help achieve the vision for soccer"? I am left with nothing more than conjecture or simple speculation.

[Richard]

quote:Originally posted by Robert

I never stated the CSA owed us anything. However, all other national soccer bodies that have hosted championships of this magnatude have always operated up front and provided interested parties with pertinant information. They seem to take the position of feeling they do owe soccer fans and other interested parties the right to be informed of all major developments as they unfold. Sadly, the CSA does not share this perspective. Unfortunately your right Richard, unless the CSA provides us with information of newly developing events, all we have left is pure speculation.

Well you complained bitterly that the CSA had not told you (or anybody else) what their plans were when there is only two weeks to go before their self imposed deadline. Why should they tell you anything? Have any of the designated cities been briefing you regularly on their progress? Get a life Robert - you drag up and thrash to death anything you can to bash the CSA because you have a visceral and somewhat irrational dislike of the whole organisation.

[Richard]

quote:Originally posted by The Ref

If the CSA's silence does not answer their vision statement question of "how does this help achieve the vision for soccer"? I am left with nothing more than conjecture or simple speculation.

If they don't have something to announce publicly by their end July self imposed deadline then you will have something valid about which to complain. Until then just be patient and refrain from wild guesses or more conjecture.

[Robert]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

If they don't have something to announce publicly by their end July self imposed deadline then you will have something valid about which to complain. Until then just be patient and refrain from wild guesses or more conjecture.

Since it appears you feel obligated to telling me what to do, I'll say, "Okay, Boss."

Things I must do according to Richard (at least per his last 2 posts)

1) I must get a life.

2) I must be patient.

3) I must refain from wild guesses.

4) I must refrain from more conjecture.

Did I miss anything, Boss. Jeez, the things people who don't even know me personally want me to do. And this was posted at 1:00 AM. Doesn't sound like the kind of life I'm interested in Richard. Although by all means live it if you feel entitled to it.

I think I'll just ignore your suggestions, and continue to voice my disapproval of Kevan Pipe and those in charge of the CSA until they have been replaced by people who can competently manage the affairs of Canadian soccer. It is after all still a free country we live in. I even respect your right to support someone like Kevan Pipe, if only you could extend that same courtesay.

Meanwhile, I'm sure fellow Voyageurs would like me to get back to more important matters, such as discussing the WYCs and the mountain of work that still needs to be accomplished before that can become a reallity. Hopefully when all is said and done you and I can watch a World Youth match together in Vancouver. After all, isn't that what we all want?

[Richard]

Robert, you know very well that ultimately you and I have very similar objectives when it comes to Canadian soccer. I see no point however in endless nugatory speculation in advance of a deadline previously set by CSA. What can possibly be achieved in any constructive manner by second guessing and constantly whining about why the CSA hasn't shared any information with you ahead of when they said they would make a public statement about their progress, other than simply to vent your own spleen? You're behaving like a silly juvenile anxious to start opening Christmas presents.

[El Hombre]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

You're behaving like a silly juvenile anxious to start opening Christmas presents.

Apt comparison. Kudos.

Can't wait until said presents are opened and there's more complaining that they aren't exactly what they wanted.

[Richard]

Just because its the CSA, anything and everything they do or don't do will be endlessly criticised by some here.

[Robert]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

Robert, you know very well that ultimately you and I have very similar objectives when it comes to Canadian soccer. I see no point however in endless nugatory speculation in advance of a deadline previously set by CSA. What can possibly be achieved in any constructive manner by second guessing and constantly whining about why the CSA hasn't shared any information with you ahead of when they said they would make a public statement about their progress, other than simply to vent your own spleen? You're behaving like a silly juvenile anxious to start opening Christmas presents.

Yes indeed, a very apt comparision. With only eleven days to Christmas, we have eleven PIPErs piping:D. All I want for Christmas is for Canada to host the 2007 WYCs. I don't even care if the best Kevan can Pipe up with is six temporary bleacher facilities. In eleven days we will know if Kevan Pipe is Santa or the Grinch who stole Christmas.

[Daniel]

Why don't you boys take this conversation over to: www.iholdagrudge.com ?

[Robert]

Just to reiterate the CSA statement made 10 weeks ago.

FIFA World Youth Championship 2007

Thursday, May 12, 2005

CSA Statement on York University Decision

Ottawa, Ontario – The CSA issued the following statement following the decision by York University to withdraw from the stadium project.

“Despite the decision by York University to withdraw from the stadium project, the Canadian Soccer Association wishes to emphasize that this in no way jeopardizes the ability for Canada to host the FIFA World Youth Championship 2007. We will immediately review other possible hosting venues to join those already in place in Ottawa, Montreal, Edmonton, Victoria and Vancouver.”

FIFA Vice President and CONCACAF President Jack Warner reiterated and emphasized FIFA’s continued and committed support to Canada hosting the FIFA World Youth Championship 2007 with or without a stadium at York University. He also singled out the positive announcement of the construction of a soccer specific stadium in Montreal (Saputo Stadium) which will hold 13,500 spectators, expandable to 17,000.”

The championship already involves five exceptional tournament host cities who are well on their way to hosting the tournament. The CSA is already in discussion with at least three different potential venues to replace York University and intends to have this issue fully resolved by early June.”

Early June has come and gone. The end of July is only a week away. Does the CSA's continued silence in any way change their claim that "this in no way jeopardizes the ability for Canada to host the FIFA World Youth Championship 2007?" And what about the "five exceptional tournament host cities who are well on their way to hosting the tournament?" I haven't heard anything here in Vancouver, except Richard telling me to be patient until next week. And the there were only 10 PIPErs left piping.

[youllneverwalkalone]

quote:Originally posted by Daniel

Why don't you boys take this conversation over to: www.iholdagrudge.com ?

As a moderator, couldn't you take them somewhere close? I think 90% of the threads I've started have been moved, compressed, or otherwise bastardised. Yet these chuckleheads can rant back and forth in 3 different forums on this board all on the same never ending topic. Remember mods, as Beachesl says, it's all about consistency. Firm but fair. If I say Lee Bowyer is cocksucker the whole internet falls apart, but these guys can bore us to death day-in and day-out with no apparent consequences. Boring is boring and this stadium thread has got to go.

Edit: Hey, Hey, Ho, Ho

[strobe_z]

First off, to the best of my knowledge, Daniel only has mod permissions for the French forum - DJT, beachesl and myself (strobe_z) are the only moderators. We do our best to try and keep things running smoothly, but we can't keep track of everything. If you have a concern about a certain thread (and or individuals posting) you should contact one of the mods and make them aware of the situation.

We're all busy and don't have time to read every thread on the boards, so while we aim for consitency it doesn't always happen. To be honest, it's been a very busy last couple of weeks for me so I've been drawn to look in on threads that are more interesting to me personally (which the T.O. stadium is not really one of them), but I do try to get through almost all the threads eventually (which is why I'm here).

So, while it should be noted that "being boring" isn't against the rules here... let's try to move this thread back on topic shall we?

[Daniel]

It's more garbage posts than out-and-out trolling, though.

Let them try that shît on the French board , they'll see who's who.

[Elias]

Is the whole world becoming retarded or does it just seem that way?

[Daniel]

quote:Originally posted by Elias

Is the whole world becoming retarded or does it just seem that way?

They're the ones making all the noise.

[fan]

This is the attitude that kills the game.The CSA "owes" statement is certainly revealing Richard.Clearly exposes your ignorance Richard and certainly accurately represents the CSA point of view. Which is exactly why the CSA is completely incompetent.

Certainly given the most recent debacles I am with you on this one Richard I think the CSA should shut up and go away.

[Robert]

quote:Originally posted by Daniel

It's more garbage posts than out-and-out trolling, though.

Let them try that shît on the French board , they'll see who's who.

Does that account for the French board only having a total of 46 topics to discuss? Have you really showed everyone who's who over there? Why do you bother going to this topic or any topic that I author? The topics I get involved with are not intended for those who are hyper sensitive of critique aimed at Kevan Pipe and the CSA when they screw up. Why don't you start a thread on how constructive and positive Kevan Pipe and the CSA have been for Canadian soccer over the last twenty years. Feel free to do so in both French and English. Maybe then you can take a page out of my book, because I wouldn't waste my time going to either one.

Cheers

[Richard]

quote:Originally posted by fan

This is the attitude that kills the game.The CSA "owes" statement is certainly revealing Richard.Clearly exposes your ignorance Richard and certainly accurately represents the CSA point of view. Which is exactly why the CSA is completely incompetent.

Certainly given the most recent debacles I am with you on this one Richard I think the CSA should shut up and go away.

Huh! So you think the CSA owes Robert or anybody else a progress report in advance of any public statement they have commited to make by end July - you lot sure have an inflated opinion of your own self importance.

If the CSA made a public statement every time they made an approach to somebody that did not work out as they (and you) might have liked you lot would be howling for their blood even more than you do now. You have no idea how things work at that level do you?

[Gordon]

Maybe the CSA has taken your advice Robert - and the advice of other voyageurs - and will not announce anything without being 100% sure of their partners, which by previously established (by Voyageurs)standards is actual cash in hand and construction started. Anything less and they are incompetent morons. They've been panned for announcing the U of T deal, they been panned for announcing the York U./Argos deal. So since we have established on these forums that they shouldn't have said a bloody word isn't it somewhat specious to pan them now for keeping the mouths shut? Or have I miss understood the points that were made when the previous announced plans collapsed?

[Richard]

With this lot it really doesn't matter what the CSA does or doesn't do, these people will never be satisfied. Some idiots just derive please from whining unthinkingly about anything and everything, many never do much more than sit at their keyboards and complain about what they perceive others doing or not doing.

[River City]

Although I don't think it's necessarily a good strategy to effect change by only criticizing the CSA, here are some facts (please correct me if I'm wrong):

Canada:

36th most populous nation on earth

Top 8 in the world in Economic Power (G-8)

National Soccer Association around for over 100 years

One World Cup appearance (19 years ago)

No national league

No national cup

No plan for developing clubs for a future league

In any other country these guys would have been run out of town and never heard from again, but not here. Based on their track record, they are incompetent and are hindering the game's development. The best thing the CSA has done in the last little while was in hiring Osieck. Not because he was a great coach, but because he was a great technical director and put in place some structures that will provide dividends for years to come.

Anyway, just a quick little rant....

[Robert]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

With this lot it really doesn't matter what the CSA does or doesn't do, these people will never be satisfied. Some idiots just derive please from whining unthinkingly about anything and everything, many never do much more than sit at their keyboards and complain about what they perceive others doing or not doing.

It really appears somewhat hypocritical, when you express yourself in a similar manner to that which really seems to upset you so much (albeit your value judgements of me are a sad reflection your limitations). Unlike Kevan Pipe, my shortcomings do not affect the state of Canadian soccer. However, your constant defense of him and the CSA, clearly indentifies that you approve and support his performance, and feel I commit some kind of gross injustice to this great builder of Canadian soccer. If you and others want to remain on your knees in front of Kevan that's fine with me and the government of Canada, however, could you please do so privately, and not subject everyone else to this perverse spectacle?[]

[Loud Mouth Soup]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

With this lot it really doesn't matter what the CSA does or doesn't do, these people will never be satisfied. Some idiots just derive please from whining unthinkingly about anything and everything, many never do much more than sit at their keyboards and complain about what they perceive others doing or not doing.