Gold Cup post-mortem

[Daniel]

Just would like to point out that Sutton is more vocal with the Impact. It might be nerves or unfamiliarity.

[kelownaguy]

I agree 100% with Gianluca's assessment of Yallop.. There were some here who wanted him fired no matter what,, many of us took a wait-and-see approach at the Gold Cup.. Given the hand he was dealt for this tourney (missing some of our key top guys and going with a lot of inexperience), as well as getting put in a tough group (again!!) I think he had the team playing pretty well and his job is safe for now in my books, but that has the right to change.... We were very solid in our backend in all 3 games,, and the style he has us playing now is a huge improvement over the "kick the ball as far as you can out of our end" method we used in the past for many years.. The key for Frank now is to keep our core group of guys playing together in as many camps and friendlies as he can over the next few years so we can have some cohesion out there.. He also needs to add a couple more key pieces to the puzzle..

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by Cheeta

Gerba. Some people have written Gerba some compliments. All I say is ???????.

Ali made a lot of good runs, had at least two breakaways nullified by incorrect off-side calls, set up his fellow striker Sir Laurence for to great chances and poached a goal. Nothing puzzling about liking a striker who can do that.

quote:

Occean. 1st two matchs were okay.

As opposed to the third & fourth matches? Now I'm puzzled. He only played two matches, he was suspended for the first. What I don't understand is people ripping Ali apart but then sayin Occean did all right. I'm happy for both to continue in the program (I think its actually great that we have so much depth now at the striker position, even if only Radzinski is a "star" at that position, we will never be starting the likes of Corrazzin and Niall Thompson up front again), but on the basis of the last two games in which they both featured, Ali was more effective than Sir Laurence. He looked more dangerous against the US and actually scored against Cuba. Case in point Ali's goal - both strikers in question could have chased after the loose ball. No prizes for figuring out which one did.

[matthew]

I didn't think Gerba or Occean were as bad as a lot of people thought. I certainly think both deserve more looks. I'd start Hume up top too, but I thought these guys both played adequately.

I also think everyone is way too harsh on Braz. He doesn't get forward great, but until recently we didn't have any outside backs that pushed up well since Bobbyball. He played balls to feet, was composed under pressure and despite his lack of pace, didn't get beaten too badly. Compare him to some of the outside backs we were using three years ago and this is freaking Cafu. He shouldn't start I agree, but he looked quite good as a backup rightback and if he is comfortable in the middle he could be better than McKenna, Gervais or Reda.

The only played I thought played his way out of getting another look was Leduc. Everyone else looked like they could be fine as injury fill ins or squad players.

cheers,

matthew

[canso]

"Everyone else looked like they could be fine as injury fill ins or squad players."

That's what this team is: spare parts.

Hume and Hutch excluded, and Sutton, Gervais and Simpson did well enough to secure a first team place.

[Soccer_Josh]

quote:Originally posted by canso

Adam Brasz = D

Lots of effort but not much skill. Better suited to trade school. Plumber perhaps?

You are giving Adam Brasz a D!!! Thats Unbeileavable

[Cheeta]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

As opposed to the third & fourth matches? Now I'm puzzled.

Ha. Yeah. Think everybody got what I was getting at, but good catch all the same. A 3rd or better still 4th match critique would have been great wouldn't it have?

As to Gerba, GL. Apart from the garbage goal he collected (and full marks for it, but kinda hard to build a career around no?) did anyone during this toury feel that Ali was going to score or even set up a goal besides Yallop? At any time? Anyone? Not me.

I did feel he played pretty good against the USA coming off the bench. But I think most everyone played a pretty good match against the US of A. Still. Wasn't holding my breath in anticipation of the goal he seemed destine to pot.

Just to be clear (like de Rossario in a way) I just thought Ali failed more of those little in-match tests than passed and thus at the end of the day his final grade reflected as much. Sure, he's got a head on his shoulders, layed up a couple of opportunities (for Dwayne especially I think) but also had me wondering what he was doing.

So there you are. As far as I'm concearned more good than bad. But he's pretty young yet so I guess we'll see. Will be disappointed if he gets called again any time soon though.

And yeah, Soccer_Josh as much as I think Braz isn't exactly a fullback for Canada's future I think but he did alright. He certainly never bit off more than he could chew, played withing his limits and cheated when he needed too. I'm saying he was smart enough to play within his limits and that's an important quality. Good on him. But sorry, not many more caps in that mans future, God willing.

[Grizzly]

My late 2 cents as I have been in a small town in Cape Breton for the last week without internet access (I did manage to watch all 3 games despite the crap I had to go through with my uncle who was the only I knew person in this small town without a bar or store with satelite tv to watch the game was worse than driving there and certainly didn't positively effect our up to know not decent relationship).

Yallop: Since the WCQ fiasco I have certainly been a critic of him but I will try to be fair. In this tournament we did show some positive possesion and looked decent in some games despite losing just like during some WCQ games. I was not a fan of many of the callups and think canso was right in calling them spare change and at that old spare change. In response to my critique that during WCQ Yallop lacked enough bench strength someone responded that he was developing this in this GC: We do need to give guys like Gervais a chance to play at the international level when we are playing unofficial B friendlies against teams like Barbados. There may be times when we have to use him so we need to develop him a bit however, he is emergency replacement bench strength at best. There were many players in this roster who were of this category, emergency replacements, ie. guys we may have to use if we have no other choice. However, these are not the players that are going to let us beat or tie teams like the US and Costa Rica on a regular basis. If we have to bring a B-team to the tournament then why not one with younger players with the potential to help us beat those teams in the future? For example, why not call Ledgerwood instead of or in addition to Gervais? He is already playing at a slightly higher level than any of the A-leaguers and performed very well at the U-20 WC (much better than Peters did). There were several younger players at least equal if not better than the A-league veterans called who were available and it would have been much better to develop possible first choice players as depth development. If we are going to qualify for the WC we need to be able to have a consistent 5 game record of at least 1-1-3 against a team like the US, 1-2-2 against Costa Rica and 2-1-2 against Honduras. Players like Gervais are not going to get us there.

Considering our striker problems a player like Friend had to at least get a look at a training camp. My problem with Yallop in WCQ is not that he didn't have enough depth at each position during WCQ but that he had too much mediocre depth at each position a trend that continued in this GC. There were some positives at the GC but we lost every game against a decent opponent. I am not saying he should be fired yet but this has got to be crunch time for him, ie. the results in the next year have to count as well as his ability to get our best players, for example, Nsaliwa on the pitch. None of this "I am not putting any pressure on myself for results" crap. It is time to produce. In two years on the job he has only managed to defeat Barbados, Belize, Northern Ireland, Guatemala and Cuba, losing many matches to teams without superior talent to us. Not a very impressive record. If he can't start producing results soon we need the next WCQ coach to take over the team before the next GC to have some time to develop the team.

Players: Like many others I was impressed with Atiba.

Sutton was solid and consistent which is something we have lacked since Forrest. However, as of now he has not shown me the brilliance of a top keeper like Forrest. Lars has at times showed this brilliance but has been inconsistent. Maybe if Sutton played at a higher level he will develop into something better but at least this is the best keeping we have had in several years. I think Fernandes needs to be given a chance to develop into the role with Lars also figuring into the picture if he can settle his club situation. With the right development this could be a strong position for us again but call future starters not mediocre bench strength like Franks. Fernandes is at the moment the only young keeper with the potential to win games against top teams who is playing at a high professional level and thus must be given a chance with the team.

Biggest surprise for me was Serioux who looked quite good when he was on the field. I also thought Poz was good against Cuba and showed that he had played at a higher than A league level even if he is not currently playing at such a level. McKenna has decent ball skills and sometimes shows some class but is just too slow and weak positionally to be anything more than injury cover as a defender. Should be a starting forward for us probably opposite Hume who looked great in the short time he was on. Leduc was a wasted callup.

Biggest disappointment was Bernier who I have seen play much better but really had a poor first touch, unable to shoot the ball at first touch (he had as many quality scoring chances as any of our strikers but consistently waited to control the ball allowing defender/keeper to get into position) or properly take a pass. Has lots of potential but definitely not an A-team starter in present form. Braz was uneven but is young and showed potential even if I think he has less potential than Ledgerwood and Hainault. A good callup but not the best possible one.

DeRo was not a disappointment because we have seen this all before. He can make individual plays at top level until it comes to giving the ball off but cannot score on a gimme, cannot take a pass, constantly loses the ball when a teammate passes to him etc. He does threaten a defence but at what time do the defenders realize his bark is worse than his bite. I think it is time to sit him on the bench and see how we perform without him (what if Hutch played attacking mid) but I am worried that like several WCQ players he is a Yallop favourite and a penciled in starter.

I like Grande, not sure if he is an A team starter but quality bench strength at the least. Brennan was inconsistent but at times showed great quality. Would like to see him when he is in season. Simpson also showed flashes of quality but also disappeared at times. However, he is young and needs international experience and this was a good callup.

As to the strikers, I think both Occean and Gerba showed some promise yet obviously lacked finishing quality. I am glad they are in our system but neither have won a spot yet. Both are young though and will hopefully develop. Both showed that they could be dangerous and threaten opposing defences yet also showed they could miss sure goals. Both at times came back and helped the midfield. In our present situation every possible striker combination needs to be tried which means calling Friend and starting McKenna in this position.

CONCACAF referreeing is a constant problem and we need to start raising a fuss. I was glad Yallop finally got off his ass and reacted but why on a marginal call after we already had 2 questionable red cards and a joke penalty call against us. Don't let the players get frustration red cards, if Yallop were to get sent off he should have done this in the first game after the penalty call. Run on the field make a fuss maybe get banned from the tournament but give a post game interview and say CONCACAF reffing is crap and put it in the headlines. Embarrass the association and make some noise or else it will continue. At least the US (who have some power) will back us on this one and Sharpe and the rest of the CSA should also make a fuss. This should have been done after the first Honduran game. Show them that we are not a pushover and pressure them to make some changes. If Yallop is running on the field and getting red carded and suspended Stalteri and McKenna won't be. We may lose a game or two due to sanctions but will benefit in the long run.

[An Observer]

I personally like the what Yallop is doing. I believe he has Canada playing positive football and this is the first time any coach at the national level has us playing positive football. Personally, I believe that this is the only way Canada will improve and which will allow us to qualify for the World Cup. Oziek played negative defensive football with a kick and chase approach. Whilst this allowed him to get better results in the short term than Yallop, it did nothing to developing Canadian players or tactics. And when the chips were down in the WCQ, we couldn't score under him either.

In WCQ, I personaly believe the biggest problem was not Yallop's tactics or his coaching or his selection (sure we can argue about Onstad and Watson both who I thought were poor choices) but the lack of preparation. This may be down to him or the association...or likely a combination of both. We never played an A friendly until June against Wales I believe and then San Jose and the qualifiers against Belize (which were meaningless in preparation). By the time we started against Guatemala, he had players on the pitch that had almost not played together up against a side that had played a whole series of friendlies against concacaf opposition leading up to that match. We came out flat and unfamiliar with each other and lost a home game we should have won. That put us behind and when we followed up this with a loss against Honduras on two very bad referee decisions, we were forced to go on the road trying to win matches instead of playing for ties and looking to win on the counter. In any event, by the end of qualifying, the team played probably its best half ever against Costa Rica but that was too late. You cannot count on a team growing through qualifiers when there is great pressure, you need that before the qualifiers start so that they hit the ground running in the first match. They should have pressed the European players to play 3 or 4 friedlies before Wales and didn't and we went out because of it.

On the player selection for the Gold Cup, again you can argue about one or two choices etc. but I personally thought he was bang on generally (considering who was available). He gave alot of players a chance to prove themselves at this level who had performed well on their club sides (eg. Gervais, Braz, Leduc, Gerba). Some proved they were at least adequate replacements (Gervais, Braz) and others such as Leduc showed they could not step up this level. Others like Gerba showed enough that he may at another time be worthy of a second look although probalby not enough at this stage to have earned a spot. Personally, i liked this better than Oziek's approach of blooding youngsters such as Canizales and Matondo who were clearly not ready at that time. That weakens the team and doesn't do alot for their development. As much as I agree with giving youth a chance (so like the move of having Peters in the side), you need some balance where you have some older players with some in their prime and some young ones with a few years professional experience (eg. 21, 22, 23) and then a couple of youngsters. As much as I like Ledgerwood and think in a couple of years he could be battling with Stalteri as the starting right back, Braz in my opinion is currently better than him by a long shot. Ledgerwood is not as steady defensively and gives the ball away more than Braz. He of course has more speed, moves forward better and certainly can cross and play the long ball. You can see his skills and once he fills out, improves his defensive skills, and calms down on the ball, you will see him shoot past Braz. This could happen in 6 months, or a year or two but it will happen. But to play him now, would have a significant down side to the team and you need to be sure that if you put a youngster on the side they are not going to kill the overall quality of your side as first and foremost the team must play positive football and then you can have the luxury of blending in some youth. Otherwise, you are going to put players together who are not yet ready to play at this level positively and we will go back to playing kick and chase. Moreover, it gives players like Braz a few matches at a higher level to prove themselves and be ready as injury replacements in the next WCQ. We badly need depth, so this does not hurt us but helps us.

Anyway, those are my few cents worth.

[ted]

quote:Originally posted by The Ref

In this post-mortem thread I expected to see some comments or ranking on Frank Yallop, but except for Alberto7, Kurosawa and myself all have been silent. Correct me if I am wrong, but I clearly remember posters still supporting Yallop that they would wait until after the Gold Cup to cast their vote. That if we failed to advance it was going to be curtains for Frank.

Well, one of those was me. I said the team had to make the quarterfinals or Yallop would lose my support. Now I am in a quandry.

On the one hand, not making the quarters by barely losing to the U.S. and being f****d over by another bad CONCACAF official is not really Yallop's fault.

On the other hand, we should have been able to pull out a win against CR and draw with the states if the players were better disciplined and could finish. These are thiings Yallop should have been able to control by his player management and selection respectively.

So for me it comes down to would we be better off with a different coach? I would have to say a qualified yes. A top class coach would do wonders but I don't think we can afford the salary of what we need (Arsene Wenger class I think) so the point is moot. At our price range I don't know that we could do better. []

[Gordon]

quote:Originally posted by The Ref

In this post-mortem thread I expected to see some comments or ranking on Frank Yallop, but except for Alberto7, Kurosawa and myself all have been silent. Correct me if I am wrong, but I clearly remember posters still supporting Yallop that they would wait until after the Gold Cup to cast their vote. That if we failed to advance it was going to be curtains for Frank.

Well my position was that Frank should be given 2 years to show that he has things moving in the right direction. I have yet to see anything that causes me to deviate from that one way or the other.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

[ For example, why not call Ledgerwood instead of or in addition to Gervais?

It would have to be in addition to Gervais, not instead of. They don't play the same position, and had we not called Gervais for another right back then we would have been in worse shape down the middle (given McKenna's suspension) than we ended up being. You could ask Braz to play out of position alongside an already out of position Atiba, but I can't fault a coach wanting to avoid a total makeshift central defense.

[kelownaguy]

Gordon, I would think that's a fair statement... He's been on a little over 1 year now and although we haven't had the results we've been hoping for and there has been some questionable callups,, we do see our team playing a positive brand of football now (compared to past teams) and depth has increased at a lot of positions, a lot of games we've competed well in but had some badluck or very poor officiating.. I think the jury is still out and hopefully we have a clearer picture after year 2 next summer. Why do people keep blaming our lack of finish at the Gold Cup on Yallop?? He's not the one out there missing those golden chances, and I'm sure it drives him more crazy then it does us. I think our lack of goalscoring has a lot more to do with Canada not really developing any great strikers and creative midfielders in the past years then just blaming it on the coach.. Gerba, Occean,, and Hume are young though,, let's give them a little experience at this level and see if they start finding the back of the net soon... I think Friend deserves a shot also at the next camp and round of friendlies..

[Daniel]

Braz is actually a central defender moved to the right last season.

[ANC2]

quote:Originally posted by ted

Well, one of those was me. I said the team had to make the quarterfinals or Yallop would lose my support. Now I am in a quandry.

On the one hand, not making the quarters by barely losing to the U.S. and being f****d over by another bad CONCACAF official is not really Yallop's fault.

On the other hand, we should have been able to pull out a win against CR and draw with the states if the players were better disciplined and could finish. These are thiings Yallop should have been able to control by his player management and selection respectively.

So for me it comes down to would we be better off with a different coach? I would have to say a qualified yes. A top class coach would do wonders but I don't think we can afford the salary of what we need (Arsene Wenger class I think) so the point is moot. At our price range I don't know that we could do better. []

let me ask you? What would you do to improve the finishing? Who would you have selected??? I mean Razinski is supposedly Canada's best striker and he was miserable in the WC Qualifications. Not scoring and missing several easy chances. What is Frank Y to do, teach the strikers to finish. Chances were created against all the teams, but none of the strikers looked capable. So I am interested to hear what you would have done.

[loyola]

Radzinsky was so so during the WCQ because of poor construction, I'm pretty sure he would have scored at least 2 goals in this summer GC. But I agree FY can't do nothing about the miss opportunities.

[The Ref]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

Radzinsky was so so during the WCQ because of poor construction, I'm pretty sure he would have scored at least 2 goals in this summer GC. But I agree FY can't do nothing about the miss opportunities.

If Frank Yallop as the National Coach can't do nothing about the missed opportunities, then who can? The ball-boys? sorry for the sarcasm. If it is the players' fault, well, he chose them. Would the fact that Yallop was a defender himself, may have something to do re coaching strikers?

[Cheeta]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

Radzinsky was so so during the WCQ because of poor construction, I'm pretty sure he would have scored at least 2 goals in this summer GC. But I agree FY can't do nothing about the miss opportunities.

No. But he is the one who chooses the soilders and the tactics to suit them. (And I totaly agree about Radz. He would have had those Yanks backing up big time).

Geezus, during the USA match I think Forrest said Canada had 14 international goals combined compared to LD's 25 for the Americans. The number of caps is reflected in that total true, but realy where was Yallop expecting the goals to come from?

McKenna? An out-of-season one trick pony who EVERYONE knows well enough to mark the beegeezus out of on every corner. A stone cold Occean? Division 1's Ali Gerba? Maybe Bernier or the also out of season Brennan and Simpson.

Dwayne de Rossario? Yeah, he's the trigger man who'll lead us to the WC in Germany. WHOOOPS.

Anyway, before I work myself into too much of a rant, Yallop's report card is increasingly going to be reflective of his ability to get players to play for him. I wrote before he gets a free pass on this for a lot of reasons. But that's the only one. Player confidense dosen't have to be verbally advertised. They'll vote with their feet even if they don't with their mouths.

[loyola]

Yes, it's FY responsability to select the right players, but except from Friend, who has start to score on a regular basis 2 months ago, name me one striker who could have scored a few for Canada. The reality is that our weakness is the striker position and Yallop can't devellopp a scoring machine. If he doesn't select a scoring machine, he should be held accountable.

[pstain]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

Yes, it's FY responsability to select the right players, but except from Friend, who has start to score on a regular basis 2 months ago, name me one striker who could have scored a few for Canada. The reality is that our weakness is the striker position and Yallop can't devellopp a scoring machine. If he doesn't select a scoring machine, he should be held accountable.

Then maybe he should change his tactics to suit the players he has. I mean no wonder Radz had been so so in the WCQ because they were launching crosses at him even though he's probably the shortest player on the field. Does Yallop expect all the goals to come from headers?

[fan]

Frank is not to be judged it would be premature at the very least.

The job is quite extensive and given what he has to over come in the CSA crew I dont know how we can possibly judge any coach.

I commend the idea of bringing in the new kids and a couple of them even in their debuts look impressive enough to take a second look.

Sutton is certainly one of the best I have seen and he must stay.

The defence core looks very good .

The midfield is woeful at this time.

The short one touch passes probably are so poor because of unfamiliarity and tension.

The strikers are poor but promising given that they are quite nervous young kids not accustomed to the event yet.

However this looks good but our Men's national team has to start acquiring kids who have played together on national or provincial teams from their early teens together as one unit right up untill 23 years of age. Then allow 2 or 3 players from the pro levels to join them.Typically pro strikers since they would be easily integrated and the toughest to develop.

This would build a strong system and a logical process that would allow our team to rise to higher levels in the very near future in interrnational competition.

[kelownaguy]

pstain,, I think he already has started changing tactics from the previous regime under Osieck where goals were hard to come by as well, you see a much more possession short passing style now that seems to lead to some quality chances, we just don't have a world class striker out there right now,, it's as simple as that. Also it starts with bringing new young strikers and giving them a look in Gerba, Occean (he played sparringly before but finally got some quality playing time here) and Hume which hurt us a lot losing him to injury..Hopefully Friend gets a look at in the next camp and friendlies,, but other then that,, there is really not much at there at all right now for Canadian strikers playing in quality leagues in the soccer world,, It has always been one of our biggest weaknesses in the past and continues on to this day,,, hopefully one of these young guys can grow into the role..

[The Ref]

quote:Originally posted by kelownaguy

pstain,, I think he already has started changing tactics from the previous regime under Osieck where goals were hard to come by as well, you see a much more possession short passing style now that seems to lead to some quality chances, we just don't have a world class striker out there right now,, it's as simple as that. Also it starts with bringing new young strikers and giving them a look in Gerba, Occean (he played sparringly before but finally got some quality playing time here) and Hume which hurt us a lot losing him to injury..Hopefully Friend gets a look at in the next camp and friendlies,, but other then that,, there is really not much at there at all right now for Canadian strikers playing in quality leagues in the soccer world,, It has always been one of our biggest weaknesses in the past and continues on to this day,,, hopefully one of these young guys can grow into the role..

For sure we are playing differently, but at the end we are still losing. Goals not always come from strikers, mids and defenders are allowed to score as well. To say that there are no Canadian strikers playing in quality leagues in the soccer world, is self defeating. Where do you think any Canadians in the so called soccer world, come from? They come from right here in Canada. My point being is that Frank and his co-horts need to look at home in youth leagues, not just at the guys under contract in Europe.

[pstain]

quote:Originally posted by kelownaguy

pstain,, I think he already has started changing tactics from the previous regime under Osieck where goals were hard to come by as well, you see a much more possession short passing style now that seems to lead to some quality chances, we just don't have a world class striker out there right now,, it's as simple as that. Also it starts with bringing new young strikers and giving them a look in Gerba, Occean (he played sparringly before but finally got some quality playing time here) and Hume which hurt us a lot losing him to injury..Hopefully Friend gets a look at in the next camp and friendlies,, but other then that,, there is really not much at there at all right now for Canadian strikers playing in quality leagues in the soccer world,, It has always been one of our biggest weaknesses in the past and continues on to this day,,, hopefully one of these young guys can grow into the role..

I agree about the short passing style but Yallop's tactic relies on the strikers to get in the end of the crosses supplied by the wingers. I think that's a flawed plan as that negates the wingers to have oppurtunities themselves. And with the wingers only allowed to cross, that leaves the central midfield to try and chip in to score goals but Yallop plays 2 defensive central midfielders so that leaves no one from midfield who are given the oppurtunity to score.

[Daniel]

Panama defeated Colombia 3-2 and will face the US in the final.

Wonder if they'll get a permanent invite of they win. Doubt it [].