Yallop Names Gold Cup Roster

[David C.]

Yes, it would have been nice to have Sutton as the starter and bring Fernandez in as his backup, so that Daniel could spend a few weeks getting introduced to our program.

Franks could have stayed with his club and would have been a more experienced emergency call-up than Wagenaar, should something happen to Sutton.

I wouldn't fire Yallop because he has a different point of view though.

[Daniel]

Where is Joey Torschia?????????

[loyola]

Grizzly, have you ever seen Fernandes play? Did you know that 2 of our coaches(Twamley and Mitchell and maybe Yallop) did?

To me the Fernandes story look like the Joey Torchia story, no one has ever seen him play, he's playing(a few minutes) in a decent league with a decent club and everyone think he has great potential!!!

I can't pronounce myself on his exclusion of the MNT for the GC on a talent point of view but I can say that I have a feeling that you and some other people on this board are overreacting about Fernandes.

First, would it be possible that he's travelling around Europe just because of his size? Would it be possible that he isn't that talented but his 6'6, 200+lbs is attracting to some clubs who are trying to train him just like some NBA or NCAA team will draft(or recruit) a 7 footer and hope to transform him in a great center. The same thing happen with GK in Europe, a lots of coaches are looking for big keeper and I remeber reading an interview with a North American players agent who said that most clubs don't want small keeper even if they are good...

I'm not saying that's the case but since everyone is looking at the bright possiblities, I'll look at the other ones. Maybe his club want a cheap back up keeper? I don't know just like you don't know why Yallop hasn't call him.

I don't know if he's good or not and I hope he's very good, I hope he's the next Shilton or something but I think a lot of people should be more objective when they haven't seen a player play.

About the inclusion of Franks, I have no problem, we are currently looking at 2 keepers who'll be 31-32 when we'll start the next WCQ campaign so I think it's better than playing 20 yrs old guy who'll be 23-24 unless we have something special.

[Manuel]

That's exactly it. Yallop has not seen him play, so why not invite him and see first hand. Fernandes had some sort of fallout with Mitchell in the 2003 U20 qualifying round, so I'm sure Mitchells opinions of Fernandes will be not be good. We don't need to see him play to know that he is doing well. When he has played the reviews have been good, and he has been named man of the match a few times. Fernandes has talent. When he played for the Porto juniors, they played a tournament in Germany with other big European junior teams playing, and Fernandes was the MVP of that tournament. He must have more than a 6'6" 200+lbs body to do that. Some of us just don't understand why he hasn't been invited to any camps yet. I personally think that Yallop is going on what Mitchell has told him. What does Yallop have to lose by inviting him to a camp, and see first hand what kind of a player he is?

[Manuel]

That's exactly it. Yallop has not seen him play, so why not invite him and see first hand. Fernandes had some sort of fallout with Mitchell in the 2003 U20 qualifying round, so I'm sure Mitchells opinions of Fernandes will be not be good. We don't need to see him play to know that he is doing well. When he has played the reviews have been good, and he has been named man of the match a few times. Fernandes has talent. When he played for the Porto juniors, they played a tournament in Germany with other big European junior teams playing, and Fernandes was the MVP of that tournament. He must have more than a 6'6" 200+lbs body to do that. Some of us just don't understand why he hasn't been invited to any camps yet. I personally think that Yallop is going on what Mitchell has told him. What does Yallop have to lose by inviting him to a camp, and see first hand what kind of a player he is?

[Guest Jeffery S.]

I think it is wrong to say that Fernandes and Mitchell had a falling out. I think that Daniel expected to play in the qualifiers for the last WYC in Charleston -much like Wyn Belotte just assumed he was a starter- but Karim did instead. One reason given was that Fernandes was in fact ill the previous week and did not train well upon arrival. In any case he mentioned he was disappointed about not playing, but I remember scenes from the ends of games where he is celebrating the wins with the rest of the group. It is not like the case of Rayner, who was sent home after having arrived in the Carolinas for the same tournament, apparently out of shape or something.

I think if the WYC had been played in the summer as planned he would have gone and perhaps would have been the sub of Karim, or maybe would have played. He was on the list to go to Turkey for the prep for UAE, this is what I am basing my comments on: he'd received the official CSA travel itinerary before the tournament was put off for the winter.

Come winter, he had been at Celta Vigo B half a year, had barely played, perhaps Dale decided that Karim would be the starter and that it was better to bring in other, younger keepers as they would not be so bothered about being on the bench. Or perhaps because he felt that Daniel should not be pulled from his club at that time.

It would be fair to say that he had a negative experience in terms of playing time at Celta Vigo, though he regularly trained with the first team and that would have been a positive experience. The same for being in Germany half a year, only that the teammates did not have the same quality as at Celta. Only with the last few months of this past Greek season at Paok could you say that his pro career is coming into place; since the habitual starter is well into his thirties, it would not be unusual to see him playing even more official matches this upcoming season, even in the UEFA Cup.

[youllneverwalkalone]

quote:Originally posted by Manuel

What does Yallop have to lose by inviting him to a camp, and see first hand what kind of a player he is?

It's a fair question that should be answered directly by the manager. There must be some sort of pre-Gold Cup press event scheduled. Perhaps one of the slooth reporters who post here could put up their hand...

[Gordon]

Its seems as if Mitchell likes to bring the anticipated starter for the next YWC as back-up. If he had decided upon Karim - who I think we can agree performed as required - then he may have decided on Waagner over Fernandes simply so the former got some experience. I think the same may have been done with Bergovic this year, although I can't think of anyone off hand who was arguably more deserving this year.

I don't see an upside with Franks, truthfully, and I am certain that the Tournament is Sutton's chance to audition for the number 1 so taking Fernandes as a back-up, having a look at him, and showing some interest in him as a player(and maybe giving him a half to get the cap tie in) seems to have more upside for the program. On the flip side, Franks may be the better choice if Sutton were to get injured early in the tournament being older and more experienced. But not much of a gamble really to take Dani. Although I want to see Canada fielding as competitive a team as circumstances allow every time out, I don't see the selection of a back-up keeper as significant to that goal.

[Grizzly]

The comparison to Torchia is great. Maybe you should check their respective resumes and see if it is a valid one. It is not my job to travel to Greece to see Fernandes play or invite him to evaluation camps but Yallop's job. It doesn't seem that he is doing this job properly. I will be disappointed if Sutton is our starting keeper in 4 years time and even more disappointed if Franks is our backup as much as I think either of them would have been superior to Onstad this time around. Frank showed what a great evaluator he was of keepers with the Onstad situation and also showed that many other factors than talent influence his selection decisions. I do not trust him not to screw up this situation either. What is the risk in taking the only keeper we currently have playing at a decent club in a decent league as a backup to a tournament in which we are bringing a B team with an overabundance of older lower level league players and an 18 year old who was by far not our most impressive player on the U-20 team. I think letting Peters and some of the Impact guys on the field against the US or Costa Rica is far more risky and also less beneficial to the future than playing Fernandes against these teams.

[Daniel]

Sutton's poised for greatness. He won't be at the Impact in 4 years' time.

[Cheeta]

Maybe, maybe. Only seen one match this year and in that he really didn't have too much to do.

Still pretty young so far as 'keepers go. Dose't exactly command the box the way he should (from the little I've seen). But that can change.

Odviously Frankie feels there's something there. And no matter which way you feel about it, Mr. Yallop certainly isn't shy about using MNT matchs as a promotional window for players he feels should be competing in higher level leagues. It could be that this is one of those cases.

[youllneverwalkalone]

quote:Originally posted by Daniel

Sutton's poised for greatness. He won't be at the Impact in 4 years' time.

He'll be in the football365.com lookalikes with Judge Reinhold in less than 2.

[loyola]

Grizzly, do you have any proof that FY hasn't seen any games from Fernandes? Do you know if he did or didn't travel to Greece to see him play or ask some contacts to do so? Do you know if he ever ask Fernandes club for video of his games?

That would be an interesting question to ask him.

As for the GK selection I still think that FY had no other choice that to start Onstad in WCQ(but nevger agreed with the captain armband) and I still say that this position is terribly weak at the moment and to say that Lars or Sutton would have get us trough the next round in 2004 is just pure speculation.

But I just want you to prove that FY isn't aware of what's going on with Fernandes in Greece. He seems to be aware of a lot of players so I don,t see why you can say that he's ignoring him.

[Canuck Oranje]

To be fair, I think the CSA has given the Coach the benefit of the doubt more than any other national organization would have given.

When a national team performs so poorly for so long, I think the burden of proof should lie with the Coach to show that he is in fact doing his job. At minimum..

I also believe it is important for the CSA and the Coach to publicly state what their strategy is for the national team. They complain about lack of support but yet they do not make information about the team and team developments readily available. For example, what are their objectives for the Gold Cup (we know this isn't our first team)?

Sorry, but I haven't seen anything to suggest that he has seen any player beyond when they are invited to national team camps. And I think Yallop needs to prove that he is in fact doing his job. That could be simply making more information available about his activities in this regard.

Again, no serious soccer playing nation would would allow their national organization to leave them in the dark like the CSA does us. Nor would we allow Hockey Canada to leave us in the dark about our national hockey team.

quote:Originally posted by loyola

Grizzly, do you have any proof that FY hasn't seen any games from Fernandes? Do you know if he did or didn't travel to Greece to see him play or ask some contacts to do so? Do you know if he ever ask Fernandes club for video of his games?

That would be an interesting question to ask him.

As for the GK selection I still think that FY had no other choice that to start Onstad in WCQ(but nevger agreed with the captain armband) and I still say that this position is terribly weak at the moment and to say that Lars or Sutton would have get us trough the next round in 2004 is just pure speculation.

But I just want you to prove that FY isn't aware of what's going on with Fernandes in Greece. He seems to be aware of a lot of players so I don,t see why you can say that he's ignoring him.

[loyola]

It's not the CSA fault if we don't have journalist who ask those kind of question to the coach.....but I still think that we have no proof about what FY knows or doesn't about all of our players playing abroad.

I don,t expect the CSA to release an article every two weeks about where our coaches went and did but I suspect that they are doing something like scouting some of our players to see their progression.....or maybe they are just sitting at home and watching tape of the 1000 best goals ever.....

[Canuck Oranje]

So what is the CSA responsible for?

- Promoting Canadian Soccer?

- Fielding a Competitive National Team that plays to its potential?

Who are the CSA accountable to?

- Provincial Associations?

- The volunteers who work tirelessly coaching and administrating at

community clubs?

- Sponsors whose primary intent is to tie their brand to Canadian

soccer? Who do we blame when a sponsor after spending millions

chooses not to continue because it feels it isn't getting value?

The sponsor? The media?

- The Canadian taxpayer? I assume they do receive some government

money.

Most professionals in the communication field will tell you that it is the responsibility of the organization wanting coverage from the media to provide stories that will interest the media on some level. Not the other way around. Soccer is not alone in this regard.

At very least, the CSA needs to explain to those who are interested what its goals are and how it intends to acheive them. It has a website.

Giving a little more insight about what it is doing to improve the performance of the national team is not a bad addition to a communications strategy.

What's going to be the excuse if the Team goes three and out in the Gold Cup?

quote:Originally posted by loyola

It's not the CSA fault if we don't have journalist who ask those kind of question to the coach.....but I still think that we have no proof about what FY knows or doesn't about all of our players playing abroad.

I don,t expect the CSA to release an article every two weeks about where our coaches went and did but I suspect that they are doing something like scouting some of our players to see their progression.....or maybe they are just sitting at home and watching tape of the 1000 best goals ever.....

[Guest Jeffery S.]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

Grizzly, do you have any proof that FY hasn't seen any games from Fernandes? Do you know if he did or didn't travel to Greece to see him play or ask some contacts to do so? Do you know if he ever ask Fernandes club for video of his games?

That would be an interesting question to ask him.

As for the GK selection I still think that FY had no other choice that to start Onstad in WCQ(but nevger agreed with the captain armband) and I still say that this position is terribly weak at the moment and to say that Lars or Sutton would have get us trough the next round in 2004 is just pure speculation.

But I just want you to prove that FY isn't aware of what's going on with Fernandes in Greece. He seems to be aware of a lot of players so I don,t see why you can say that he's ignoring him.

The killer on this point is that Frank Yallop openly criticized Holger for not moving his butt to take a look at De Rosario when the guy was just beginning to look interesting for the nats. I think he even commented that he did not even expect him to go to San José, that he could easily have gone to see them in Chicago or nearer to where Osiek was based.

But I think that Holger saw more of the internationals than Frank has, though even then he was lazier than he needed to be. If you planned it well it would not have been too complicated or even costly to do a short European tour (two weekends), with maybe midweek matches for a national Cup or European tournament. Especially when a player is at a high level, I think that our national coach should get out and see how a top quality club coach is conceiving of -thus using-a player, as it is quite normal for players to be converted successfully without a national team coach actually clicking in to what has been altered for the better.

[loyola]

Since no one knows what FY is doing when he isn't with the MNT our the youth teams I think someone in a press conference prior to the GC should ask him what he's doing? Travelling? Watching tape? or speaking with contacts abroad?

[stacks]

"""The killer on this point is that Frank Yallop openly criticized Holger for not moving his butt to take a look at De Rosario when the guy was just beginning to look interesting for the nats. I think he even commented that he did not even expect him to go to San José, that he could easily have gone to see them in Chicago or nearer to where Osiek was based."""

Mentioning Dero, He only plays in the M.L.S and last year didn't play many minutes game in and game out. DeRo recently went on trial and didn't catch anybodys eye. He lacks pace and consistency. We all know DeRo has had moments of greatness. Most Countries star striker's play in a better league than the M.L.S or the A-league.

For some reason Frankie Yallop loves selecting the locals from the A-league and such, while Holger stayed away. I understand many players have club commitments during selection time but a player in a lower league in England (Marc Bircham) is far better than a USL First Division player (Ali Gerba). Holger at least stuck with Players playing at high levels and Youth, after he eliminated Bunbury, Aguiar, Geoff Aunger, and Peschisolido at a maybe surprising young age.

Yallop will learn, player selection plays a vital role in a winning team, and maybe we will see the Belize lineup once again next WCQ.

[Daniel]

I'd like to compare Grande and Bircham...

As for Dero, Keegan wanted him at Man City, the board said no and Keegan walked.

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by stacks

Mentioning Dero, He only plays in the M.L.S and last year didn't play many minutes game in and game out. DeRo recently went on trial and didn't catch anybodys eye.

As Daniel said, Keegan wanted him at Man City, also Blackburn offered him a half-season contract but Dwayne didn't like the insecurity of having to move his family to England for what was only a guaranteed six months.

[Grizzly]

No I don't have any proof Yallop has not seen Fernandes even though I highly suspect it. Maybe he has but if so he seems to have a different opinion than some high level clubs who have included Fernandes in their systems. If I see a coach (Mitchell for example) who generally makes good selections but makes the odd strange choice I can give them the benefit of the doubt. Other than the Belize series Yallop has continually made poor choices and after finishing last in our group and countless poor selections I am not inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt. Anyone who was with me in Kingston including El Hombre, an Onstad supporter who I drove with to the 2nd game, can vouch that I saw problems with Onstad's keeping in both games against Belize and said this quite openly. I don't say that I am an expert talent scout but why did Yallop not see the same things I did? Was I not proven right? Can anyone tell me we did not have the weakest keeper in our group? I personally don't think Yallop is doing enough out of country scouting but if he is than I think his judgement is poor.

I think Sutton is one of the better Impact players and is capable of playing at a higher level. Maybe if he has this opportunity to develop he will surprise me and become better than I suspect. At the moment I think he is a competent but not outstanding keeper but still better than what we had in WCQ. Not a Forrest who will win us games but he also stops what he should and doesn't lose us games either. I think Fernandes has far more upside in relation to 2008 but we have to see him in a game situation to really form an opinion. Yallop also has to see him in a game situation to really form an opinion. I have no problem with keeping Franks in the loop as an injury replacement and like every player maybe he will suddenly make an unpredictable leap in performance level. For my money Fernandes looks like the best bet for the future and I would like him to be given the chance to show he is either capable or incapable. As a Canadian soccer fan I am tired of constantly posting under Ossieck and now equally if not more under Yallop for certain players to be given a chance to show they can perform at the required level or show that they don't deserve selection. If they are given a fair chance and fail I don't have a problem with them not being recalled. Until then or until we have some decent results I will lack confidence in our coach and his ability to judge talent.

[Daniel]

And let's not forget that videotapes DO exist...

[matthew]

Everyone who moaned that DeRo couldn't start for SJ last year is ignoring the fact that he had to beat out Landon Donovan for PT (not going to happen no matter what) or be a better target forward than US national teamer Brian Ching. DeRo isn't a real target forward and Ching is very good at it.

I'm okay with the keeping decision. I feel we should give Sutton a long hard look. He's got two caps. I recon he's going to get four more bare minimum. I'm good with that. So who should back up? Why not Franks? He's nearby, I felt he was better than Lars at the U23 level, he hasn't been busy in the Caps games I've seen him play, but if we're going to have someone as a strict back-up, I say why not Franks. I think Stamatopoulous and Fernandes defenitely deserve a chance and I hope they get to back-up or even get a start if the occassion calls for it in a Euro friendly, but I never understood flying a guy all over the world to ride pine. I see no problem with looking at a decent in-season keeper who is playing on this side of the pond.

I agree Yallop made some poor choices in WCQ but I think that is less on decision making and more on lack of time to prepare. I've been quite happy with his teams of late and I think there's been progress. I think he's been making sensible choices (exluding the Tam situation, whatever it is). I don't think this Gold Cup team will do much simply because without Stalteri and DeGuzman our midfield is very, very poor. You can't disguise that.

This is a loooong process. I'm not going to panic over anyone getting capped or not capped or not called five years before the next world cup.

cheers,

matthew

PS and yes I can vouch Grizzly was griping about Onstad after the first WCQ.

[Cheeta]

Nice to see this thread enjoying a new life.

Well just start by mentioning that this is going to be the hardest period for player recruitment for any manager. Yallop, Osiek, Lenaduzzi, whoever. It's going to be likely 3-4 years before any realy meaningful matchs come up (barring Confederation Cup) so veteren players sacraficing hard earned time off and club positions for a rubbish tourny isn't likely to happen. There will be those few who'll allways come if called (Hutch and Big Kev most recently spring to mind, but don't forget guys like Watson and Fenwick back in the day) but quite honestly they are an honoured minority. It'll be tough days ahead for Mr. Yallop and some serious tests for our domestic players I'm sure.

See. I was just cutting Frankie some slack there.

Also like to add, upon looking at the roster again, for all that we may be missing this go around we could have a pretty quick line up take the field. Damn we'll need it against the Yanks. Some slow coachs to to be sure, but for the roles that they'll be providing (assuming a target forward and Land of The Giants centre half) this could be neither here nor there.

Imagine fielding a team with Hutch at right back, Captain Big Kev McKenna at centre back and Occean target forward. And if you dared to play Pizzolitto with McKenna, let those speedy wingers run to the flanks, DDR could hide in the middle while Occean decoys and play for the corners. And with Hume and JB, we're going to get some quality corners.

Geezus, I may be talking myself into a measure of optimism.