June 15 WYC - Canada v Colombia - POST-match [R]

[youllneverwalkalone]

I don't know how anyone who watched that match can claim the 2-0 result was a reasonable performance. It's not like a 4-5-1 is an attacking formation to begin with. Why not let the wingers try to win some set pieces? If you need to compromise your defense to play your own style, you're really greated to begin with.

[sj]

looks like we did not want to play that game

would have been less ugly by forfeiting the game.

we did not have to look that ugly today

there was nothing today that hint that we want to develop as a soccer nation.

there is a reason why the average fans stay away from Canadian soccer

and you had a perfect example of why today.

looks like Dale forgot what is the main function of forwards on a team.

even when we had the opportunity to string a few passes together we opted to kick it away.

no way this kind of soccer is going to sell.

even if we build a world class stadium that kind of garbage is going to drive paying fans away in a flash.

[JayWay]

quote:Originally posted by footyfanatic01

I myself think it was a smart tactic by DM. Look at Greece at the Euro's, arguably played the ugliest style, but it was effective. One chance was ALL it took, and often at times those chances were off of corner kicks and free kicks. I'm happy for the way we represented ourselves today. We got badly outclassed, but 2-0 is still a respectable result, to us Canadian fans, and the rest of the world.

Let's just hope Canada learns from this, and we beat the Italians.

I don't think that's a fair comparison.

Granted, Greece played anything but a positive style, but they didn't bunker either. They played well organized, disciplined defense. And while Canada did show a lot of composure in our own third today and for the most part held their shape, what they did not show was any promise for pouncing on mistakes, pressuring the Colombians into turn-overs, or launching a counter-attack. Secondly, if our plan was to score of set pieces and free kicks, why was DeJong kept on the bench for so long?

[footyfanatic01]

Yeah, but DM was looking ahead to the Italy game. Imagine getting scored on 5 goals, what that would do to our keeper, and more importantly our team?

[youllneverwalkalone]

quote:Originally posted by footyfanatic01

Yeah, but DM was looking ahead to the Italy game. Imagine getting scored on 5 goals, what that would do to our keeper, and more importantly our team?

What does 5-95% possession do to the team? If it's because your two top pro players were on the bench, quite demoralizing I'd imagine.

[JayWay]

quote:Originally posted by footyfanatic01

Yeah, but DM was looking ahead to the Italy game. Imagine getting scored on 5 goals, what that would do to our keeper, and more importantly our team?

Well, by playing the system we did, we probably exerted a lot more energy then we would have otherwise. How is chasing Colombians around the pitch for 90 minutes in the heat good preparation for the match against the Italians?

[analyst]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

That was largely a waste of 90 minutes.....With the tactics we chose there was never any hope we would score, and most irritating of all we have the talent to play offensively against these teams - and in this instance we took some of the talent off the field (or didn't put it on until late, to be more accurate).

I never want to see these tactics employed again, especially when we feel the need to take skilled players off the field to do it.

I agree with most of what yu wrote, but I can't believe you wrote that we have the skilled players to play against teams like Colombia. We are not even close, even if we had Peters and DeJong on the field. The Colombians penetrated our defence most of the time, either with beautiful feints and dribbles or through great short passes, and fortunately for us Wagennar made three great saves. The rest of the time, Colombia kept possession and took long shots, which were too high, or Hainault blocked them. At the end of the game, Colombia scored off two shots which were kept down. If Colombian players had kept their early shots down, then they would have beat us 6-0. A 6-0 result is a better indication of the quality of the teams. It also reflects the shots on goal.

Colombia has so many great young players, such as Zuniga. Peters and DeJong, who are two of our best, are not of that calibre. Colombia kept its top goal scorer off the field until 20 minutes from the end.

I have been accused of being too negative about Canadian soccer skills and people have told me to watch our youth teams because our youth teams are good. Our U17 team was horrible this spring, and our U20 team just showed that our players are not highly skilled.

This time we can't blame the result on a lack of preparation, or lack of friendlies. Are we going to blame the result on Mitchell? I hope not, he is the coach everyone wants to someday coach the MNT because he is good. If our performance is not because of poor preparation or because of poor coaching then why did we perform so poorly? Its because we are not producing players who are skilled enough.

[strobe_z]

A bit early for this perhaps... but Syria just went one up on Italy...

Anyone considered what a win by Syria would do to us? We'd have to beat Italy by at least as well...and then hope Colombia mow down Syria - this I can see happening, both Italy and we looked to have organized defensive systems... not something the Syrians have I'd guess... They'll be lucky to escape 5-0 to this Colombian side.

What would happen if Italy draw Syria 1-1 and then we draw Italy? If that sets us up for the invincible Canadian coin toss you all will be glad we didn't get blown out playing "beautiful" soccer against Colombia.

[JayWay]

quote:Originally posted by analyst

I agree with most of what yu wrote, but I can't believe you wrote that we have the skilled players to play against teams like Colombia. We are not even close, even if we had Peters and DeJong on the field. The Colombians penetrated our defence most of the time, either with beautiful feints and dribbles or through great short passes, and fortunately for us Wagennar made three great saves. The rest of the time, Colombia kept possession and took long shots, which were too high, or Hainault blocked them. At the end of the game, Colombia scored off two shots which were kept down. If Colombian players had kept their early shots down, then they would have beat us 6-0. A 6-0 result is a better indication of the quality of the teams. It also reflects the shots on goal.

Colombia has so many great young players, such as Zuniga. Peters and DeJong, who are two of our best, are not of that calibre. Colombia kept its top goal scorer off the field until 20 minutes from the end.

I have been accused of being too negative about Canadian soccer skills and people have told me to watch our youth teams because our youth teams are good. Our U17 team was horrible this spring, and our U20 team just showed that our players are not highly skilled.

This time we can't blame the result on a lack of preparation, or lack of friendlies. Are we going to blame the result on Mitchell? I hope not, he is the coach everyone wants to someday coach the MNT because he is good. If our performance is not because of poor preparation or because of poor coaching then why did we perform so poorly? Its because we are not producing players who are skilled enough.

You're right to a degree. Nothing that could have stopped the Colombians from putting on a show today. They are just too naturally talented to be totally contained.

But having said that, we certainly didn't help our cause. We gave them all the room in the world. And while our organization was fairly solid, the boys, for the most part, looked scared. They were hesitant to commit and shyed away from getting stuck in. The Colombians never had to think twice about buying time or taking another step.

[footyfanatic01]

Exactly. Whether DeJong or Peter's played is irrelevant. The Colombian's would of walked all over us regardless. After watching this game, much like analyst I have come up to the conclusion that our players arent skilled enough. We play too much English run and gun, kick and chase style. We need to play some nice attractive 1 touch - 2 touch soccer to even have a chance against these teams. It's obvious...the Colombians were just to skilled we couldnt touch 'em. We were too scared, too intimidated.

On another note , what would happen if Italy ties Syria, and we draw Italy? We would be tied on GD, so what would be the tiebreaker?

[mjoni]

Is it me or does Dale Mitchell have something against Italy-based players? On the other hand, the NCAA kids seem to be enjoying themselves... Personally, I would start Lombardo, Lalli and Schiavoni in the next match. Heck, I'd even give Uccello a call and dress him in one of the many unused defenders' jersies.

[JayWay]

We didn't even play English style today. English style means imposing yourself on the opponent and getting stuck in. We definitely didn't do that today, so there's no point in bringing up discussions of English vs. Latin style.

[youllneverwalkalone]

Lombardo started.

I have admit that I hadn't considered Syria getting a result. Although I still think we could have lost by 2 going down the wings -our style, which worked okay against Mexico.

[sj]

I see the harm. This isn't a friendly where we want to "brush up on our skills"...we wanted a result, it was quite obvious that we played to get the tie, or maybe a lucky fluke goal. We wanted to put ourselves in the BEST POSSIBLE position going into the Italy game. I see nothing wrong with that.

where were today the so called skilled we brushed up during friendlies

looks likes that the same way we been playing the friendlies.

if Italy wins today all they will need is a tie and they are thru.

we have not done or tried anything today that shows that we have the knowledge and skills to play attacking football against a quality side.

once again we are going to let Italy take the initiative and if a tie is what they need they wont try anything silly at the back by opening up.

if we dont want to be scored upon in a match we will be better off not to step on a soccer pitch.

even if manage to sneak a goal against Italy are we going to keep playing that ugly and ride our luck that at the end of the tournament

we would not have improved one bit as a soccer nation.

we won the Gold cup a few yrs back by palying overly defensive distructve soccer got lucky that we had a hot goalkeeper and manage to score a couple of goals and the luck of a draw.

how much have we improved today with that win?

[youllneverwalkalone]

Where can we follow Italy-Syria?

OT, Deutschland/Socceroos is off to a flying start for anyone who felt ripped off today.

[footyfanatic01]

quote:Originally posted by JayWay

We didn't even play English style today. English style means imposing yourself on the opponent and getting stuck in. We definitely didn't do that today, so there's no point in bringing up discussions of English vs. Latin style.

Then tell me what is our style Jay? Point is, we're playing like the English, who whether you think or not they rely on luck alot of the time. Look at the Portugal - England Euro Semi-final. A lucky goal, and they go into a shell much like we did.

Face it. We don't have the skill to compete. Plain and simple.

[Alex]

quote:Originally posted by footyfanatic01

Face it. We don't have the skill to compete. Plain and simple.

We dont have the skill to compete? Did we lose 7-0 and 5-0? God help Honduras then. Columbia is world class plain and simple. We dont have the skill to compete with Columbia but we DO have the skill to compete.

[youllneverwalkalone]

FIFA.com is reporting 2-0 Syria???

Most unforeseen this is.

[Grizzly]

I think many people are not giving Colombia their due as to how strong this team is. They reminded me of watching Brazil at the men's world cup when Brazil is dominating. This type of individual technical ability throughout a whole team can only be developed in a country with a soccer environment, a decent pro league and also includes a large amount of luck. I think this tournament will show that the majority of soccer powers don't have a U-20 team to compare with Colombia. If these players develop well Columbia will be the equal to Brazil and Argentina in the coming years.

Compare this game to our team even 4 years ago where we looked like we didn't belong against some far poorer sides. Here we showed that we could compete against a world class side even if they were obviously the better team. Many people may not like this style of play but one sees it every week when a relegation side say Norwich or Rostock plays a big money team like Chelsea or Bayern. How many games has Germany won playing in a similar fashion? Four years ago we would have looked like a 3rd division team against a top 1st division team whereas today we looked like a poor 1st division team against a top 1st division team. Love it or hate it, most soccer coaches see the defend and counter tactic as the best way to win a game against an obviously superior team. I do think it was a mistake to leave Peters and DeJong out of the starting lineup because you need to threaten a bit more as well so that the opponent is a bit more cautious and doesn't feel they can control the game at will. On the other hand we were 10 minutes away from a draw against the team that is my early favourite to win this tournament. Despite the massive possession advantage Colombia didn't have that many quality scoring chances, often shooting from the outside. If Mitchell had played more offensively and lost 7-0 like Honduras did what would have been the reaction of posters then?

The two problems we had in executing an effective defend and counter strategy was the aforementioned lack of a player who could threaten the opponent (like DeRosario did against Portugal) and the lack of ability to maintain possession. The possession problem was largely due to our players being not used to being pressured at the tempo and speed of the Colombian team. Even our players in good European soccer environments are not used to this pace. For example, look how often Ledgerwood was beat by some flashy Columbian moves as this is a style he is not used to playing against in Germany. The only remedy for this is to expose our players to playing against sides like this and this level of technical ability is only evident in South America presently. It would be great if we could afford to send our next U-20 team on a friendly tour in South America. I am sure they learned a lot today (I bet Ledgerwood will study the video and see how he was beat and think about what he should have done differently) and it would sure be better to learn how to play at this tempo and deal with such teams before the tournament than during it.

There is no doubt we will have to win the game against Italy and play much more offensive soccer. However, Italy's results so far suggest that they are no where near the class of Colombia and I think we will see a much different game.

[strobe_z]

yep... if that holds up the goal diff is gonna be VERY important...

we'll still have to beat Italy.. but now we'll have to hope that Syria looses BIG against Colombia.

I'm predicting Colombia/Holland final... Colombia winning... They're rolling and despite the fact that I know our game this morning was a big ugly... if it comes down to goals we'll be very glad we held on against Colombia. If we'd tried to play beautiful I have a feeling we'd be staring down a 7-0 scoreline as well as Honduras.

[beachesl]

quote:Originally posted by footyfanatic01

On another note , what would happen if Italy ties Syria, and we draw Italy? We would be tied on GD, so what would be the tiebreaker?

Well, Syria is ahead of Italy 2-0 at this time, and since Italy seems not to be a scoring juggernaut, it seems like Syria is bound to win, and thus qualify.

A draw against Italy would be useless to both them and us, because 2 points will not be good enough to advance because 3 Groups alreadt have three teams with at least a win, and Nigeria should hold on today to at least clinch the last third place.(By the way, the rules say that if there is a tie after all the criteria involving points and goals which would be the case if we draw Italy, they decide by "fair play quotient" based on the number of yellow and red cards.)

It makes our job against Italy quite neat: A win will qualify us with 4 points because we wouldn't have a bad Goal Differential compared to toher third place teams. A loss or a draw would doom both us. A ppsoitive side is that with a loss today Italy may even be eliminated altogether by the match on Saturday, as a win against us would only give them three points. They would in that case, hopefully, lack motivation against us.

[sj]

all will be academic if we dont beat Italy.

even if Syria wins today we might still get one of the 3rd best spots by beating Italy.

Colombia would want to finish first meaning that they will field their best 11 against Syria and that might even give us second place with a Canadian win and Colombia bags a few against Syria.

[beachesl]

Final, 2-1 for Syria , our task is set. Sirrah.

[john tv]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

Please elaborate ? I really don't get what your talking about.

I guess the Italians are a worse soccer nation than we are,using your absurd reasoning.Get with it.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by analyst

[i agree with most of what yu wrote, but I can't believe you wrote that we have the skilled players to play against teams like Colombia.

Our players were not as skilled as the Colombians, but they do have skill, maybe not enough to expect to beat them but surely enough to at least compete against them. Enough skill to not immediately surrender without any hope of victory.