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The US, not Mexico, are now the class of CONCACAF


Daniel

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After the U20 result against Argentina and the past two Hex matchdays, it kind of hit me: while Mexico has "traditionally" been the regional power, the US has passed them.

Of course, the Mexican league is stronger and the senior teams are pretty equal (even then, the Americans have had the upper hand recently), but the US is the only country in the region to always qualify for every tournament. Mexico hasn't been to the U20's in 2 editions, I believe. The women's team doesn't even compare and the other youth programs are similar.

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quote:Originally posted by Daniel

After the U20 result against Argentina and the past two Hex matchdays, it kind of hit me: while Mexico has "traditionally" been the regional power, the US has passed them.

Of course, the Mexican league is stronger and the senior teams are pretty equal (even then, the Americans have had the upper hand recently), but the US is the only country in the region to always qualify for every tournament. Mexico hasn't been to the U20's in 2 editions, I believe. The women's team doesn't even compare and the other youth programs are similar.

You have a point. Regarding the mexican league, its worth noting that their clubs have been performing very well in Copa Libertdores. They are finally getting some respect. The top crust of concacaf are pretty good and stack up pretty well against the top sides in Asia and Africa. But I don't think that the worldwide respect is there yet. Thats why I would like to see them and other regional sides do well at the WYC and other fifa tournys

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quote:Originally posted by Daniel

After the U20 result against Argentina and the past two Hex matchdays, it kind of hit me: while Mexico has "traditionally" been the regional power, the US has passed them.

Of course, the Mexican league is stronger and the senior teams are pretty equal (even then, the Americans have had the upper hand recently), but the US is the only country in the region to always qualify for every tournament. Mexico hasn't been to the U20's in 2 editions, I believe. The women's team doesn't even compare and the other youth programs are similar.

Mexico beat the USA pretty handily in the hex. And put Brazil down today. I would say they have a bit of gas left in the tank. The USA and Mexico are in a class by themselves, but the USA is not dominant over Mexico by any means.

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quote:Originally posted by Ed

Mexico beat the USA pretty handily in the hex. And put Brazil down today. I would say they have a bit of gas left in the tank. The USA and Mexico are in a class by themselves, but the USA is not dominant over Mexico by any means.

While I won't take away the fact that Mexico played a great game against Brazil today, but saying that the US is not dominant over Mexico by any means is kind of stupid. We've beat them 5 out of the last six times we've played together, and they beat us 2-1 at Azteca. I wouldn't say that's beating us handily as it was more we beat the crap out of ourselves. I hate Mexico, they are our biggest rival but I do have respect for their teams and I am happy to see them do well outside of CONCACAF but on neutral ground it can easily go either way. But I still think the US will win the HEX.

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quote:Originally posted by amacpher

No point bringing-up the strength of the Mexican league in this discussion. The Mexican league is strong because of all the Argentines playing there...

What I can't figure out is......why if there are so many talented Mexican players do they not have more Mexican players playing for the big Euro clubs. Why don't players from Mexico blend more easily into the G-14 (or whatever number it is) clubs.

Obviously it's not because of talent, but why do so many Mexican players stay home to play in the Mexican League and not chase the money in Europe?

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quote:Originally posted by argh1

What I can't figure out is......why if there are so many talented Mexican players do they not have more Mexican players playing for the big Euro clubs. Why don't players from Mexico blend more easily into the G-14 (or whatever number it is) clubs.

Obviously it's not because of talent, but why do so many Mexican players stay home to play in the Mexican League and not chase the money in Europe?

It has to do with the money in the Mexican league. There's not so much that it can attract players from Europe, but there's just enough to keep most Mexicans in Mexico.

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quote:Originally posted by amacpher

It has to do with the money in the Mexican league. There's not so much that it can attract players from Europe, but there's just enough to keep most Mexicans in Mexico.

I'm sure you know what you mean by that statement. But I know I don't know what you intend to say.

If ManU, Celtic, one of the Milans, Bayern, Real...etc. offered the money they can why would a player choose to stay in Mexico?

But I will admit Mexico is one of my fav teams to watch. Unfortunatly they have the same problem as alot of African countries (I love the CUP OF NATIONS). So much individual talent, but can't be harnessed into a team.

The exception for team play for me though, was in the last WC. I wish I could remember who Mexico played, but there was a sequence of maybe 10-12 first-second touch passes and then a cross comes from the left wing and the Mexican player does his best Linda Blair (Exorcist) imitation and heads the ball into the net from maybe 12-14 yards. For me the goal of WC 2002.

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quote:Originally posted by argh1

I'm sure you know what you mean by that statement. But I know I don't know what you intend to say.

If ManU, Celtic, one of the Milans, Bayern, Real...etc. offered the money they can why would a player choose to stay in Mexico?

I mean, teams like ManU, Milan could afford to pay them more, but do you really see many Mexicans fitting-in to these clubs? Even Borghetti isn't going to knock Shevchenko or Rooney out of their starting jobs in Europe.

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The US will be the first to qualify from our group. For that very reason, Mexico could ended up finishing first.

One way or the other, please tune in on Labor Day weekend and watch the States step on Mexico.

I have some respect for Mexico. I have two of their camisetas, as Chris Sullivan would say, and I respect them for being proud and full of fight. But they are whining, diving, cheating, loud-mouthed, demagogues who are full of false piety.

Come September, the States will destroy them.

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Mexico victory testament to rise

By Tim Vickery , BBC

Mexico 1-0 Brazil

Brazil's stars practically marked themselves, running too much with the ball and continually trying to force their way through the middle.

The full backs, so important in supplying width to the Brazil attack, were reluctant to push forward, fearing a lack of cover behind them.

But despite the deficiencies in Brazil's performance, Mexico's 1-0 win on Sunday is a result of some significance, perhaps the best that the men in green shirts have ever achieved in Europe.

Mexico currently has a claim to possess the best league outside Europe.

It can certainly boast more strength in depth than Brazil or Argentina.

The reason is economic. The South American clubs are exporters of talent.

Mexico has the financial strength to import; quality players from Argentina, Paraguay, Brazil, Colombia and so on are enticed north by higher salaries, and the country can also attract foreign coaches.

Imported ideas and imported players have brought about a considerable rise in standards - and now it seems that the local players have watched, listened and learned.

Mexican players are also proving their worth in the Copa Libertadores, South America's Champions League

The Mexican national team have won victories over Brazil before. But usually their task has been eased by the altitude of Mexico City or the fact that they have been up against under strength sides.

Beating Brazil's galaxy of stars under German skies is something new.

Meanwhile, back on the other side of the Atlantic, Mexican players are also proving their worth in the Copa Libertadores, South America's Champions League.

Chivas Guadalajara are through to the semi finals after a sensational 4-0 aggregate win over Argentine giants Boca Juniors, the club who have dominated the competition in recent years.

The most fascinating aspect of Guadalajara's success is that it has been achieved without foreign aid. The club have a tradition of only fielding Mexican players.

An adventurous side, they showed the full range of their attacking options in building up their four goal lead in the first leg.

Then they gave evidence of the strength of their nerve in protecting their advantage amid intimidating conditions in the return match.

Guadalajara now go into the semi-finals suffering from the absense of several senior players who are with the national team in the Confederations Cup.

Even so, they are favourites to get past Brazil's Atletico Paranaense and move on to the final.

Going back 20 years, Colombia provides a parallel to what is currently happening with Guadalajara.

During the 1980s huge sums of drug money were being laundered through Colombian football, which consequently had the resources to sign up big name stars and coaches from all over South America.

Standards of play rose rapidly. Just as is the case with Chivas, there was a Colombian club - Atletico Nacional of Medellin - who at the time had a policy of not fielding foreign players.

Coach Francisco Maturana sifted through all the new ideas and techniques that were flowing through his country's football, came up with a distinctive local style of play, and in 1989 Nacional became the first Colombian side to win the Copa Libertadores.

Could it be that Chivas Guadalajara are following the same path?

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quote:Originally posted by SamIAm

While I won't take away the fact that Mexico played a great game against Brazil today, but saying that the US is not dominant over Mexico by any means is kind of stupid. We've beat them 5 out of the last six times we've played together, and they beat us 2-1 at Azteca. I wouldn't say that's beating us handily as it was more we beat the crap out of ourselves. I hate Mexico, they are our biggest rival but I do have respect for their teams and I am happy to see them do well outside of CONCACAF but on neutral ground it can easily go either way. But I still think the US will win the HEX.

If you are going to throw out stats, please stick to the facts. The USA beat Mexico in 3 (not 5) of their last 6 encounters, and in 4 of the last 7 (going back to qualifying for WC2002). I am not trying to take away from their performance, but I guess we have different definitions of the word 'dominant'.

28-Feb-01 Columbus, Oh, USA USA 2-0 Mexico XVII WCQ

1-Jul-01 México DF Mexico 1-0 USA XVII WCQ

3-Apr-02 Denver, Col USA 1-0 Mexico

17-Jun-02 Jeonju, Kor Mexico 0-2 USA XVII WC

8-May-03 Houston, Tex USA 0-0 Mexico

28-Apr-04 Dallas, Tex USA 1-0 Mexico

27-Mar-05 México DF Mexico 2-1 USA XVIII WCQ

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quote:Originally posted by Ed

If you are going to throw out stats, please stick to the facts. The USA beat Mexico in 3 (not 5) of their last 6 encounters, and in 4 of the last 7 (going back to qualifying for WC2002). I am not trying to take away from their performance, but I guess we have different definitions of the word 'dominant'.

28-Feb-01 Columbus, Oh, USA USA 2-0 Mexico XVII WCQ

1-Jul-01 México DF Mexico 1-0 USA XVII WCQ

3-Apr-02 Denver, Col USA 1-0 Mexico

17-Jun-02 Jeonju, Kor Mexico 0-2 USA XVII WC

8-May-03 Houston, Tex USA 0-0 Mexico

28-Apr-04 Dallas, Tex USA 1-0 Mexico

27-Mar-05 México DF Mexico 2-1 USA XVIII WCQ

I stand corrected. Either way it will be fun watching them both in Germany next summer!:D

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quote:Originally posted by Rudi

Or the word 'handily'.

Having seen the game, it was not close; Mexico dominated the match start to finish. The USA looked lifeless and were fortunate to get one back. Here's an excerpt from the US Soccer federation (who have been known to toot their own horn on occasion):

"After a slow-paced beginning, Mexico sprinted to a two-goal lead with finishes by Jared Borgetti and Antonio Naelson within a four-minute span in the first half that put a dent in the USA’s plans to come away from Estadio Azteca with a point, something the U.S. has only done once. The U.S. struggled offensively, getting only three shots in the first half, but finally got in a bit of an offensive groove in the second half and Eddie Lewis cut the lead in half with a well-placed strike in the 59th minute. The U.S. looked to find the equalizer in the final 20 minutes, but it ended up being Mexico who peppered the U.S. goal, forcing U.S. goalkeeper Kasey Keller to come up with a couple big saves."

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I tend to think of any Mexico match at Azteca where they do not win by more than a goal as 'less than handily', but you have seen the match, so I'll go with your point of view.

To me, playing at Azteca is akin to removing a lung before the match, so Mexico really should be defeating all opponents there by at least a couple of goals.

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Whatever. The USA may well be the dominant team in CONCACAF in a few years time, but I think they'd have to improve their overall record in Mexico (0W-22L-1D all time) before I start handing them the title.

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I think the Americans are still 2nd to Mexico.The U.S.u20 were supposed to beat a weak Italian team and lost 3-1.The Mexican senior team beats a strong Brazil at the Confed Cup.I'd like to see the U.S.have more consistent performances before I concede that they are the class of CONCACAF.The next 12 months should give us a good idea with WCQ,Gold Cup,and WC 2006.

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quote:Originally posted by Daniel

As per the last message. Where were the U20 Mexicans? They lost to us and Honduras!!!

And Mexico won that GC title (which enabled them to be in the Confed Cup) in the ever-comfortable confines of Azteca.

Well, USA failed to win that same Gold Cup at home.

Mexico have weak youth perfomance because youth development is taken over by individual entities (soccer clubs/schools) with little to none coordination between them, so its much more difficult for them to maintain a core of youth players ala USA/Canada/CHina etc... Much like England (whats England record at Youth championships?) However, mexico's youth clubs reprentatives have much better records at competitions like Dallas Cup (Mexican Club Tigres U-17 defeated USA U-17, for example).

Just My 2-cents.

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quote:Originally posted by Daniel

As per the last message. Where were the U20 Mexicans? They lost to us and Honduras!!!

And Mexico won that GC title (which enabled them to be in the Confed Cup) in the ever-comfortable confines of Azteca.

I don't really think we should put too much emphasis on U20 results when comparing nations.Many have given too much credit to the U.S.on their win and tie over traditional powers Argentina and Germany in an age group where traditional powers aren't necassarily as strong as their senior teams.Teams from Syria and Burkina Faso have also proven to be very competetive at this level.Did the U.S. show their real strength in the Italy match?Maybe yes,maybe no.Are they closer to the team that beat Argentina or just one of the top CONCACAF teams?

Daniel,you begun this topic based partly on a good win over Argentina by the U.S.I'm just saying that I'd like to see them win games like this at the senior level more often before I give them the #1 title in CONCACAF.I think the Gold Cup and WC 2006 results will paint a more accurate picture.Also keep an eye on the Mexicans at the Confed Cup the next few days.

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