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De Guzman at Depor: 2005-06 Season


Guest Jeffery S.

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Guest Jeffery S.

So will someone who saw it let us know how the game was, I just saw the goals, Riquelme with his magic taking apart Depor and the home team unable to get their attack going.

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quote:Originally posted by Cheeta

$1,400 a year I give to SHAW but I can't get GolTV, which for $3 a month I'd buy just to see The Guz a couple of times a year.

So all you Rogers subscribers can call it bitter resentment.

Man, I gotta buy a dish.

Sweet Jeebus. $1400?

I cut out Rogers at $80 per month, moved to Expressvu for Condos. Now at $45 per month and it's super-sweet.

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quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

So will someone who saw it let us know how the game was, I just saw the goals, Riquelme with his magic taking apart Depor and the home team unable to get their attack going.

I saw the game, it was bloody awful, seemed like the Ref blew for a stoppage every 30 seconds. A horrible advertisement for the Spanish game, even though you could see that all the skill was there. Actually missed the 2nd goal because by that point (once De Guzman had been subbed off) I was switching between this game & West Ham vs. ManU, which was much more exciting to watch. Julian played okay, wouldn't describe his position as being "defensive" but there seemed to be far more play on the other side of the field so he wasn't that involved. He started to get more active once Villareal took the lead but then got subbed off, and his replacement did dick so I don't think it was a good switch.

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Guest Jeffery S.

Late comment to Gianluca: Spanish refs are generally terrible, they over-call everything, are great at destroying a game they should be taking care of.

Back to Julian: Depor goes to Sevilla this weekend for the return of coach Caparrós to his former team, with the best defence in Spain right now. So a tough gig this weekend. Julian could sit at the start for the first time in a long spell, as Caparrós (who is rumoured to be renewing his contract to 2009) wants to try the attacking right-side mid-wing Victor, who has been out injured for the whole season so far.

In any case, "good" news for De Guzmán as Scaloni has announced he wants out, perhaps he is ready to return to Argentina for the next Apertura, meaning a midfield spot will open up. Though with his performances lately I don't think he should fear for his place on the team and for playing time either.

Watch for the Sevilla result, if they lose badly or can't score I would expect quite a bit of movement in the winter transfer period at Deportivo de la Coruña.

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--Quote--

PREPARING CHANGES IN THE LINEUP

02 Dec 2005 -- Coach Caparrós is preparing changes in order to face Sevilla this Sunday. The main modifications are the exit from the starting lineup of Tristán and De Guzmán, two of the men that received most of the criticisms for the poor performance against Villarreal. All the fingers point to Sebastián Taborda as starter.

PREVIEW: SEVILLA - DEPORTIVO (LA LIGA)

04 Dec 2005 -- Deportivo will try to bounce back from the categoric defeat against Villareal by winning away at Sevilla on Sunday. It is also likely that Caparros will change the lineup that produced the dissapointing performance last week.

TRISTAN OR TABORDA ?

Deportivo's defense continues to be a solid one, and even the defeat against Villareal couldn't change that impression. With Coloccini still struggling to reach 100% fitness, it is likely that Juanma will again play in the central defense along side Andrade. Manuel Pablo and Capdevila are expected to cover the wings, although Romero might replace Capdevila, who has been used a lot by Caparros this season.

It is in the midfield and the offense where Capa will want to change something. These areas have been problematic in the previous two games and Capa has lost his patience. The central midfield will consist of Duscher and Scaloni or Sergio. The latter players have not been at their top form lately but Capa doesn't have any alternative in this area. Munitis will definitely play and possibly also Victor on the right wing. De Guzman has shown his limitations, especially in the attacking phase and Capa might give the ex-Real Madrid player a chance.

--end quote--

from

http://www.deportivo-la-coruna.com/news.php

De Guzman is playing on the wing since the begining of the season and it's clearly not is position, so the return of Victor will hurt him a lot. Caparros think is useles as a defensive mid, so even with the departure of Scaloni at the end of the year or the sell of Dusher (maybe is going to MU) I don't think is future at Depor look brillant.

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--Quote--

PREPARING CHANGES IN THE LINEUP

02 Dec 2005 -- Coach Caparrós is preparing changes in order to face Sevilla this Sunday. The main modifications are the exit from the starting lineup of Tristán and De Guzmán, two of the men that received most of the criticisms for the poor performance against Villarreal. All the fingers point to Sebastián Taborda as starter.

PREVIEW: SEVILLA - DEPORTIVO (LA LIGA)

04 Dec 2005 -- Deportivo will try to bounce back from the categoric defeat against Villareal by winning away at Sevilla on Sunday. It is also likely that Caparros will change the lineup that produced the dissapointing performance last week.

TRISTAN OR TABORDA ?

Deportivo's defense continues to be a solid one, and even the defeat against Villareal couldn't change that impression. With Coloccini still struggling to reach 100% fitness, it is likely that Juanma will again play in the central defense along side Andrade. Manuel Pablo and Capdevila are expected to cover the wings, although Romero might replace Capdevila, who has been used a lot by Caparros this season.

It is in the midfield and the offense where Capa will want to change something. These areas have been problematic in the previous two games and Capa has lost his patience. The central midfield will consist of Duscher and Scaloni or Sergio. The latter players have not been at their top form lately but Capa doesn't have any alternative in this area. Munitis will definitely play and possibly also Victor on the right wing. De Guzman has shown his limitations, especially in the attacking phase and Capa might give the ex-Real Madrid player a chance.

--end quote--

from

http://www.deportivo-la-coruna.com/news.php

De Guzman is playing on the wing since the begining of the season and it's clearly not is position, so the return of Victor will hurt him a lot. Caparros think is useles as a defensive mid, so even with the departure of Scaloni at the end of the year or the sell of Dusher (maybe is going to MU) I don't think is future at Depor look brillant.

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Guest Jeffery S.

Depor continue to be energetically setting themselves up for the transfer window. It looks like they will pick up another striker, Arizmendi (who scored the golden goal against Canada in the world junior quarter finals in UAE), perhaps will sell defender Cesar to Villareal (or pick up Guayre for him in a trade, the right wing who scored vs. Lille in Champions this week).

Meanwhile Victor, the stronger attacking option for right wing, is out of contract by the end of the season and it is not sure what his future will be. His presense definitely cuts down Julian's options on the right side of the attack in a 4-2-3-1, though I think that he could keep his place there when in a more defensive mode, which will not be in the next matches (perhaps not to the 2nd leg of the Cup vs. Osasuna).

More players up in the squad from the youth ranks could be loaned out, and then there are Duscher and Scaloni making noises about going to England the first and back to Argentina for the Apertura the second.

In any case, I think that Julian is safe on the squad, and with a smaller group sought with the only additions in attack, he'll have playing time still.

They play Cadiz at home this weekend, next week are away to Galicia rivals Celta Vigo, then host Espanyol at home before the Xmas break. They have also drawn Osasuna, co-leader of the league, for the final 16 of the King's Cup (Copa del Rey), first home and then away, games in January mid-weeks.

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Guest Jeffery S.

Victor Sanchez del Amo, who I mention was de Guzman's rival in the right attacking midfield, has come down injured and will miss at least the next two games. So look for Julian playing this weekend at Celta vs the regional rivals (they really do hate each other, by the way), and home to Espanyol before the Xmas break.

This week his coach Caparrós, who had signed for just this year, has extended his contract for two more, meaning that he is in a better situation to decide on who he wants on the squad, who is to be sold or loaned out, what they might want to spend on. I think Julian's place is sure, all we have heard indicates Caparrós is happy with him and his growth and adaptation in the Primera División.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...

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..."Real Zaragoza were fined 600 euros ($714.4) by the Spanish Football Federation this month after their fans directed racial insults at Betis's Brazilian forward Robert."

Wow talk about a meaningless penalty. Unless they get serious about this the problem isn't going to go away.

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quote:Originally posted by Juby

If you gave racist fans the finger do you think you'd get carded or would they leave it?

It all depends whether the referee saw it or not. If he saw it you would be carded.

Cristiano Ronaldo fingered the Benfica supporters when they were playing there in a Champions League match and UEFA ended up fining him and giving him a suspension. They were all over him during the whole match, obviously no racial abuse, but they were uttering threats and other stuff of the sort. As a professional player I don't think they should get away with that sort of behaviour, but I think I would have done it as well if I were in their boots.

But then again they are trained to tune that stuff out.

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Guest Jeffery S.

I just saw this and was going to post it on a separate thread, as it deserves it.

For some odd reason some fans are reacting to attempts to wipe this out of football with more chanting than normal. Since they know it bothers players, they do it more, a sick way of getting an advantage at sport. Especially odd since most teams have black players, or racially mixed, like the Brazilians at Betis.

The only case I know of fans abusing their own players is at Espanyol, where some neo-fascist ultras chant against Kameni, the Cameroon keeper. Pathetic.

Just this season refs have been putting this in reports, and in a few cases a ref has even suggested they will suspend a game if a player is abused, though this has not happened. In some cases, like in Getafe, a bedroom suburb of Madrid, fans have let up after announcements on the p.a. system by the club during matches. That was were Eto'o was particularly abused.

So good for Julian to come out and speak on this. As Eto'o has said, it does not affect him as much as it may spill over to a reaction against a poor African immigrant on the streets of Spain. An intelligent observation, as some people are protected by fame and money, and others are clearly not.

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Globe & Mail picked up the story

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20060216.SOCCER16/TPStory/?query=

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

I just saw this and was going to post it on a separate thread, as it deserves it.

For some odd reason some fans are reacting to attempts to wipe this out of football with more chanting than normal. Since they know it bothers players, they do it more, a sick way of getting an advantage at sport. Especially odd since most teams have black players, or racially mixed, like the Brazilians at Betis.

The only case I know of fans abusing their own players is at Espanyol, where some neo-fascist ultras chant against Kameni, the Cameroon keeper. Pathetic.

Just this season refs have been putting this in reports, and in a few cases a ref has even suggested they will suspend a game if a player is abused, though this has not happened. In some cases, like in Getafe, a bedroom suburb of Madrid, fans have let up after announcements on the p.a. system by the club during matches. That was were Eto'o was particularly abused.

So good for Julian to come out and speak on this. As Eto'o has said, it does not affect him as much as it may spill over to a reaction against a poor African immigrant on the streets of Spain. An intelligent observation, as some people are protected by fame and money, and others are clearly not.

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Forgive if this question seems a little polly-anna-esque, but why is this happening in Spain so often and why does the Spanish FA do so little about it from Aragones right down to the clubs?

BTW, I'm not piling on Spain. It's happened elsewhere but I'm curious as to why we are seeing more of these things happen in Spain. Is it just a matter of it being reported more often.

A couple of other questions I would have is do we see this behaviour among Basque and/or Catalan supporters or is it more frequent amongst the Spaniards?

Another incident where a player reacted was at Mallorca (or was it Malaga, I always get them confused. [:o)]) when Paolo Wanchope went after a spectator. Am I correct in this one?

I've been to a few games overseas a few years ago and the only racist abuse I heard was at a PSV game versus Ajax. The typical anti-semetic stuff IIRC.

BTW, wanted to note how classy JDG is behaving in light of all this. He's showing to be more of a true professional.

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Guest Jeffery S.
quote:Originally posted by Andrew W

Forgive if this question seems a little polly-anna-esque, but why is this happening in Spain so often and why does the Spanish FA do so little about it from Aragones right down to the clubs?

BTW, I'm not piling on Spain. It's happened elsewhere but I'm curious as to why we are seeing more of these things happen in Spain. Is it just a matter of it being reported more often.

A couple of other questions I would have is do we see this behaviour among Basque and/or Catalan supporters or is it more frequent amongst the Spaniards?

Another incident where a player reacted was at Mallorca (or was it Malaga, I always get them confused. [:o)]) when Paolo Wanchope went after a spectator. Am I correct in this one?

I've been to a few games overseas a few years ago and the only racist abuse I heard was at a PSV game versus Ajax. The typical anti-semetic stuff IIRC.

BTW, wanted to note how classy JDG is behaving in light of all this. He's showing to be more of a true professional.

What is odd is that this only happened in relation to an opposing team's player as a type of taunt in the recent past. It was never generalized, it always had to do with trying to get that guy's goat. So I have to admit I heard it at Camp Nou directed towards Roberto Carlos, this was mayb 97-98, and Kluivert got a bit as well in Madrid. But as I say, until these last two years or so, it was never generalized towards a black or mixed race player for just being the skin-tone they were, it was always an attempt through racist chanting to provoke an opponent.

That would perhaps answer the question about Catalans, they are no better than anyone else. They maybe should be a bit more sensitive but are not. The Basques are another question, but since immigration from other countries is so low there, there is little irritation about other cultures and races coming in, and perhaps that makes the stadiums more relaxed. In general quite well behaved they are, better than almost all others in Spain.

Just a comment about the Aragonés incident. It is a question of not being like the English, who watch their language but not their actions. There is much less racist verbage in the UK (as in Canada), but quite a bit more violence related to racist feelings. You will find that in the Catholic countries of southern Europe they are not as careful with speech, not as politically correct, but perhaps more tolerant in fact, in everyday life. This is true with gays in Spain, there are tons of "marica" jokes but in fact the gay presense is strong and quite tolerated, except in the smaller towns.

Back to Aragonés. The guy played with black S. Americans in the 1960s, back when in England there was virtual apartheid in the game. He has never been a racist and is not a racist, I don't think at all. This is why Eto'o calls him his "abuelo", they have a very intimate, almost father and son relationship from when Aragonés coached him at Mallorca. What occurs is that the language used was objectively inappropriate. What he was saying, essentially, was "you are better than that s.o.b., that mother-fcker". In Spain this is strong, to say "black ****", but in general no swear words are as strong as in English, which is why kids are always saying "joder" and "hijo de puta" or "me cago en tu puta madre", quite strong if you translate but somehow permitted in some contexts and from a certain age.

I accept what he was doing as a motivation, like Yallop coming in and saying "we are going to kick those yodelling cake-eating fat-butted lumps from Hitler's birthplace in the ass". Okay, he wouldn't say it (though I have just said it, and I hope it is true).

That said, it was wrong, he should be more conscious of what is wrong about it (the way it sets a poor precedent in society), and the Spanish federation should not have dragged their feet on it. Aragonés felt hurt by criticism and lashed out to make it worse, instead of reacting more positively, but that is the fault as well of those hiring him. That the English particularly were the ones jumping on him made it worse, since anyone who has ever been in a Spanish beach town knows that the English are the absolutely worse people when it comes to abusing locals in shops, bars, on the street, and if you ask any Spaniard which foreigners are least respectful to their language culture you can guess which nation will come up. Question of not wanting to accept this lesson, however valid, from that particular bunch of hypocritical racists.

I am thinking about drafting a letter to the president of the Spanish federation Villar, in Spanish, and I hope some of those here would sign and send it, as I think we need to defend our own. When I get a moment this weekend. I also think, personally, that our embassy in Madrid should make a statement, but I don't think they have the good sense to do so, bunch of career diplomats who tread so softly at times it is ridiculous.

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Guest Jeffery S.

Julian is said to be starting tomorrow at home vs. Zaragoza, a hot team with a strong midfield and quick, effective strikers in Diego Milito and Ewerthon. Think he would be in the double holding mid alongside Duscher. This latter confirmed yesterday that indeed he had received an offer to transfer to Man Utd. but he has stayed at Depor as he has a better shot at playing time before the World Cup.

Depor has fallen off the race for a European cup spot, especially due to poor home results, something they will look to change on Sunday.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Guest Jeffery S.

Julian I thought had a solid half for Depor today despite the loss to my beloved Barça, 3-2.

He was already warming up in the first half as Duscher and a few others had cards and Depor had gone up 1-2 on a couple of sharp headers after a brilliant Ronaldinho free kick, they were sure to be needing someone to help defend in the middle and who could take a yellow without it meaning another red. Indeed I think he was sent to warm-up after Duscher fouled in what could have been his second yellow.

Started the 2nd half well with sharp midfield passing, and indeed his passing, both short and long, safe and risky, was good today, playing out of the defensive mid. His foul m. 4 when he slid in on Larsson and Henrik tried to leap over him ended with a gash on his head from a wayward boot, he was out for 3 minutes while they put a fishnet bandage on him, he bled through it the whole game, was quite red by the end.

Came back in and seemed to be keying on Ronnie, a foul got him a yellow most postgame commentators thought was not really deserved. Eto'o scored the winner m. 17, Julian not at all involved in a defensive lapse letting a ball through to the mouth of the goal.

m. 23 made a nice run marking Puyol down the right, defending as the Barça back went unusually to the end line, JDG held and it was goal kick.

m. 26 worked up the left side of his attack with a nice series of give and goes. Depor had no decent chances despite being down a goal, as Barça controlled well.

Late on, m. 39, he fouls Deco and could have gotten a 2nd yellow, was forgiven. A few minutes later he made a nice long pass from the left midfield to the attacking right, but the Depor strikers did little to threaten the home side's lead. Man-marked Ronaldinho for much of the last phase of the game, worked hard, did well, but Ronnie still got around some pressure with brilliance, like with a juggled ball flicked over Julian's head.

As the game ended he traded shirts with Samuel Eto'o, who walked off the field shirtless with Julian's in his hands.

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It seemed to me from watching the match that Julian is almost being asked by his coach to not get into the attack at all. He played his d-mid role very well I thought & made it tough for some world-class players to get past him. But he seemed very conscious to not get into the attack even when they were a goal down, which suggests to me he is following some explicit instructions from his coach.

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Guest Jeffery S.
quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

It seemed to me from watching the match that Julian is almost being asked by his coach to not get into the attack at all. He played his d-mid role very well I thought & made it tough for some world-class players to get past him. But he seemed very conscious to not get into the attack even when they were a goal down, which suggests to me he is following some explicit instructions from his coach.

I think you are right, but think that in principle Depor had four attackers out there, Arizmendi, Munitis, Victor, and I think Ruben. Tristan came on later. And they are a quite ineffective bunch, especially since the creative mid Valeron was injured for the season. So Julian hangs back in this set up, and the team is a bit split between the four attackers and the two mids and four backs, there is no transition between the lines.

Funnily, Depor gets more goals from the backs on headers, like yesterday, than from some strikers.

I think that yesterday he was asked to try to connect with the guys up front and out to the wings, but to stay back and help vs the Barça strikers, since if you are playing vs Ronaldinho, Larsson and Eto'o you should have at least 5 guys back so you can double team whoever has the ball. And he keyed on Ronnie.

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