The Beaver Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S. Julian was once again stuck to the bench as Depor got an extra time goal to beat At Madrid, they have two wins in two games. Seems that Caparrós is opting more for the Argentine Duscher along with Sergio in the middle, and De Guzmán has not found his place. I hope he will get playing time eventually, but perhaps his coach is seeing what I saw in Santander. He is a solid midfielder defending, his passing is okay, but he is not particularly creative or even daring. And he does not go forwards. I guess after seeing that Germany friendly when he basically set up our goal after a long diagonal run and some nice dribbling, I had an impression of him as a bit more offensive. But I think he plays it safe a bit, and he probably should not be resting on his defensive tenacity, even vs. Spain he could have gone forwards to help out the attackers, especially with solid defensive mids beside him to cover, like Serioux. We even saw Grande and Adrian himself do more in an attacking vein. In any case, here is hoping they can get ahead some match and he comes in to help defend a result, can show a few things. His time, I hope, will come. Not to attack DeGuzman, but you are not the only one who has their suspicions about him. I am one of a few individuals who've been watching him as of late who've been concerned with his play, primarily his seeming unwillingness to move the ball in a timely fashion. He's got some fine skills, for sure, but perhaps he's not the great creative mid everyone thought he might become. I agree, Grande has shown more in this regard than most every other midfielder we have, Simpson's lighting forays forward aside. Frank needs to push Hutch into the centre of midfield, perhaps with Grande. They are good two way players--can one use that term in soccer? I hope DeGuzman finds his way onto the pitch soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 Just to be clear, Like you, I dont want to make this sound like I am piling on or bashing JDG. But I have noticed same that you have in WCQ. Going in to WCQ, I thought that he would be our best player. In fact, I pinned all of my optimism on him because of what i thought he could do. Namely, a creator, a player who would clearly standout from all of our other players, a player who could do something special everytime he has the ball. But I just didn't see it. That's not to say that he played poorly, but he certainly didn't standout like he did in Victoria in 2001. And that is something we needed from someone in order to move on . Many, including myself, have already alluded to this in the posts following the most recent WCQ effort. But on the other hand, I watched him play on FSWC in a league game shortly after WCQ and he looked better than he did during WCQ. But yes, Grande was doing the kind of things that I thought I would see from DeGuzman. however, Grande wasn't at the top level of fitness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 For me it is just a question of raising our standards. Now that Julian is at Deportivo, a team that has been in Europe for most of the past decade, his level is going to have to go up. At Hannover expectations were not nearly as high, even though they probably had more fans to games, there was a lot of passion for the team, etc. Deportivo and the Spain league will require a bit of creativity from him, a bit more flash and definitely some more skill with the ball. Let's hope he can rise to the occasion, as many of us thought he was the person who could do so for us. As is our top players are a versatile defender who could also handle the middle(Stalteri) and a tenacious defensive midfielder (De Guzman), along with a still talented striker who is not really dangerous in the box but can create problems upon occasion for good defenders (Radz). That is quite thin I think to build a strong national team on. We do not have a proven top flight keeper right now, our defense looks to be recovering a bit after the loss of De Vos, the midfield is looking quite sharp, only missing a someone who can distribute the ball and keep the team moving, and up front we are waiting for someone to come in and show himself to be up there with Radz, hopefully someone with more size but if not as good a finisher or better. I can't help but commenting this, but I don't think that a person like Hargreaves would add much to our team right now, he is not a very creative mid either, for hard work and man marking we are not doing badly in the middle for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beaver Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S. For me it is just a question of raising our standards. Now that Julian is at Deportivo, a team that has been in Europe for most of the past decade, his level is going to have to go up. At Hannover expectations were not nearly as high, even though they probably had more fans to games, there was a lot of passion for the team, etc. Deportivo and the Spain league will require a bit of creativity from him, a bit more flash and definitely some more skill with the ball. Let's hope he can rise to the occasion, as many of us thought he was the person who could do so for us. As is our top players are a versatile defender who could also handle the middle(Stalteri) and a tenacious defensive midfielder (De Guzman), along with a still talented striker who is not really dangerous in the box but can create problems upon occasion for good defenders (Radz). That is quite thin I think to build a strong national team on. We do not have a proven top flight keeper right now, our defense looks to be recovering a bit after the loss of De Vos, the midfield is looking quite sharp, only missing a someone who can distribute the ball and keep the team moving, and up front we are waiting for someone to come in and show himself to be up there with Radz, hopefully someone with more size but if not as good a finisher or better. I can't help but commenting this, but I don't think that a person like Hargreaves would add much to our team right now, he is not a very creative mid either, for hard work and man marking we are not doing badly in the middle for now. No, Hargreaves would not add much, though his pace and experience--even at a fairly young age, still--would benefit the team to some degree. I see Hutch eventually joining the 3 players you mentioned: he's a couple of years away, but not too far off. He always seems to rise to the level he's playing at--if he can get transferred to a team in a more competitive league soon, then we'll see him emerge as one of our best. Like I said a long time ago, we will not be a real threat to qualify out of CONCACAF until we have 11 starters the quality of the top 3 you mentioned. Perhaps Hutch and Simpson will get there, maybe Fernandes in 3 or 4 years, and Edgar and Ledgerwood and young DeGuzman and Peters. But all of these remain to be seen--obviously. I remain optimistic--deadly thing to be, as a soccer fan, not to mention a fan of Canadian soccer--if only because we are seeing more and more decent young players emerging from the youth level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ed Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 "Hargreaves would not add much". Right. I guess I'm failing to see the 10 or so outfield players in our player pool who can play with both feet, put a ball from sideline to sideline to your team mate's feet, take corners and free kicks (and score off them to boot) and go box to box for 90 minutes. Not to mention get stuck in when required. But I'm sure you'll be quick to name them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 Ed: our central midfield is quite good, in fact it's the position where our players are playing at the highest level (DeGuz and Hutch), if we replace one of these two with Hargreaves we're a better team but not a lot better. It's not like replacing Sutton with Van der Sar, that would be great for the team. I think that's an honest interpretation of the situation to say that Hargreaves would not "add much". Saying that Hargreaves would add nothing to our team would be quite dishonest, but that's not what we are saying! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ed Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 quote:Originally posted by loyola Ed: our central midfield is quite good, in fact it's the position where our players are playing at the highest level (DeGuz and Hutch), if we replace one of these two with Hargreaves we're a better team but not a lot better. It's not like replacing Sutton with Van der Sar, that would be great for the team. I think that's an honest interpretation of the situation to say that Hargreaves would not "add much". Saying that Hargreaves would add nothing to our team would be quite dishonest, but that's not what we are saying! Our central midfield is "quite good"?? Compared to what?? Our midfield in competitive games can't put 3 passes together. Julian has the best ball skills but there's usually nobody moving off the ball to support him so he tries to do too much. I'm not writing our midifield off but what performance can you base that statement on? Not to mention I've yet to see Hutch play in central mid for our senior team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 Let's say that the quality of the players that can play central midfield for Canada is very good. Serioux, Grande, DeGuz, Hutch (he'll play in the midfield soon I hope) and Imhoff are all good players. That's what I mean! Hargreaves is surely better than all of them but I don't think that replacing DeGuzman with OH would be an awesome addition for Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 I am not a Hargreaves fan but I have to agree with Ed on this one. Hargreaves would be an A-level player for us and we have very few A-level players, at present only Stalteri, DeGuzman and Radzinski with Hutchinson emerging. Hargreaves is not the creative midfielder that we lack but anyone who doesn't think a top level defensive mid could significantly help us is not seeing things clearly. A defensive midfield tandem of Hargreaves and DeGuzman would have been awesome. Hargreaves would be a significant upgrade over Serioux, Grande, Imhoff and Bernier either in defensive mid or in a more attacking role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 I don't think you'd replace The Guz with Hargreaves. Grande would be a more fair comparison. At least in my opinion. (Or even Serioux/ Bircham if you wanted to restrict his role a bit more). In which case I give Hargreaves an easy two steps over Grande, speed wise. Twice as vicious if I can use that term, and a wicked right foot on his day. People sometimes fail to mention that. A wicked right foot. Seems a pretty big gap to me. Don't get me wrong. I think Grande is an excellent find. I just think he's not even in the same league as OH. Not by a long shot. One other last thought, Jeffrey S makes a point I was pondering regarding The Guz and his role during the Santander friendly. It also seemed to me that he was playing a more reactionary game. Don't know if it was nerves or tactical uncertainty or Yallop's program, but at least I wasn't the only one puzzling over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Ed "Hargreaves would not add much". Right. I guess I'm failing to see the 10 or so outfield players in our player pool who can play with both feet, put a ball from sideline to sideline to your team mate's feet, take corners and free kicks (and score off them to boot) and go box to box for 90 minutes. Not to mention get stuck in when required. But I'm sure you'll be quick to name them. Ed, I am sure you have seen him more than I, but I have seen him play quite a bit in European games. And for England. The impression I get is that he has a pretty good right foot and runs a hell of a lot; he's a tenacious defender, but essentially is a strong, competitive journeyman. Like a lot of the top Canadian players over the years. But since you yourself helped show us that Kicker and other ratings had De Guz at the level or even above Owen in recent years, what kind of argument are you making now? Tell us, then, is OH way above the level of De Guzman? And if so, now that my opinion of De Guzman has dropped a bit, why can't I say that the presense of OH would not help our team that much? I think a solid player will usually look better on a better team, especially if he is not asked to score goals as a striker or stop those scoring as a central defender or keeper. This is the case with Owen, as it will be the case if Julian plays for Depor and the team is at its normal level over the past decade, which is top 4 Spain. What Canada probably needs now is an authentic creative midfielder, maybe another strong central defender to cover for us, the time to convince ourselves that our keeper is international class, along with a killer finisher, then mix it all together and get strong competitive team performances in critical matches, with tactical intelligence. Hargreaves gives us little of what we really need right now, which is why I said what I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ed Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 There you have it. Hargreaves couldn't help us if he wanted to, just another in a long line of fit, energetic Canucks. Another Geoff Aunger. Carried by the real players on Bayern and England. To each his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 There may not be a huge drop off between DeGuzman and Hargreaves (although I think Hargreaves better at this point), there certainly is between Hargreaves and everyone else, IMO. I'd love to see OH playing for Canada and a midfield of Brennan-Hargreaves-DeGuzman-Stalteri would be the best in CONCACAF. Of course, Yallop would probably have pfhucked that up in WCQ too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Gordon IMO. I'd love to see OH playing for Canada and a midfield of Brennan-Hargreaves-DeGuzman-Stalteri would be the best in CONCACAF. According to the old saying, the mid-field is referred to as the "engine room". In other words games are won and lost according to your strenght in Mid-field and if you strong in MF, you will win. Thats why you will consistantly see Championship teams having the strongest collection of quality in that area. Nobody has ever achieved any success in soccer with an "iffy" midfield. With that in mind, you could confidently say that if our MF was/is the best in Concacaf, we would be the first to qualify for Germany 2006. I too ( going into WCQ) thought it was solid. But it obviously, as much as I hate to say it, could not have been. Nor do I see how one player would have made a huge difference. Note that I said "huge". But I agree that, It was only after our WCQ effort was over with that I began to miss Hargreaves. Maybe he doesn't address some of the areas of the game that we lacked. but he would, I suspect, have solidified other areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 Tough to "miss" someone who was never there to begin with. Can anyone recall who was typically in our midfield in WCQ? I can't, and I don't think its possible to do so since there was no "typical" midfield for us. It seemed to change every game. In fact, I think it did. Remember that De Guzman was injured in the first half against Guatemala and replaced by Serioux for his first cap. Other midfielders getting their first real cap (IIRC) in that game was Simpson & Peters. Grande got his first senior team cap in the third game of the semi-final round. De Guzman played right midfield for the first time in his life in the fourth game. De Rosario kept switching wings & in the last game was played as a striker. Are you guys sensing a pattern here? Conversely (previous) regular midfielders with experience like Brennan, Bircham & Nsaliwa were nowhere to be found, as they weren't called up. That's leaving out the injured Bent & possibly our best midfield player in previous eras, Stalteri, was massively jet-lagged for Game 1 at right back & never played in WCQ for 2006 again due to other factors. I think any problems in midfield in WCQ (and to be honest, I don't think that was our #1 problem area) largely stemmed from the constant experimentation in the personnel & the inexperience (of international play & with each teammate), rather than a lack of talent in comparison to our semi-final counterparts. The midfield looks more cohesive now against teams like Spain simply because the group that Yallop tends to go with are only now getting some games together under their belt & gaining in experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 Getting back to DeGuzman - the role that he has been asked to play in midfield for Canada recently has been the role traditionally played by Daniel Imhoff and, earlier, Nick Dasovic. So no wonder people haven't been impressed with him! This just reinforces what many Voyageurs often used to say, back in the day, in defence of Imhoff and Dasovic - that a lot of their contributions in that position go unnoticed on television. I know that I didn't become an Imhoff fan until I saw him play live and in person. The only way a guy playing that role is going to stand out offensively is if he has guys around him to work off of. That's why I'm dying to see what DeGuzman can do with Hutchinson! Remember how good Hutchinson made Serioux look in the Cuba match in the Gold Cup? (It was the only Gold Cup match in which Hutchinson played midfield.) Now imagine Hutchinson and DeGuzman. To me, the thing that sets DeGuzman apart from our other tenacious defensive midfielders is his potential, which is admittedly unrealized so far, of being a serious offensive threat from the holding midfield role. A two-way holding midfielder, if you will. To continue borrowing hockey analogies, Imhoff and Dasovic were stay-at-home holding midfielders but DeGuzman could be much more. The very best two-way holding midfielders can quarterback the attack - they need great vision to spot openings, they teammates to create and exploit those openings, and they need passing skills to get the ball to where it needs to go. The ability to threaten the goal from distance is a nice asset too (so how can have a crack from distance if you've got nobody to pass to and force the 'keeper to sit back a little for fear that you'll make him look bad.) I'm not sure if DeGuzman has all this, but I think he might. However, there is mounting evidence that Grande may be a better choice for this role, which could mean we move DeGuzman to the wing (which is the position he was in when he had his best ever match for Canada - the 2003 friendly in Germany.) I like that Grande is pushing DeGuzman in this respect because it means we're building depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 quote:Originally posted by MikeD Remember how good Hutchinson made Serioux look in the Cuba match in the Gold Cup? Well no I don't, and I don't think anyone else can possibly do that either as Serioux didn't play in that match. He was sent off in the previous one, picking up two yellows against the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 Man, is my memory ever starting to go. You're absolutely right. Serioux had a strong game against the US and here I go thinking it was Cuba. Absolutely terrible of me. [:I] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beaver Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 Yes, but that just goes to show how good Hutch is: Serioux wasn't even on the field and Hutch made him look dam.ned good. I like your idea, however, of pairing DeGuzman with Hutch. Give them a half-dozen game to see what they can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjoni Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 It bugs me that Craig Forrest says about 15 times that, "I know Atiba likes to get involved in the attack and thinks he's a midfielder, but...". That comment would be more suited to Stalteri. Atiba is a midfielder and you'ld have to be nuts not to tandem him with DeGuz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted September 17, 2005 Share Posted September 17, 2005 Julian has not travelled with the team for their match tonight vs Valencia, left at home along with another from the Depor youth system, Ivan Carril. I think he is definitely going to have to show more to his coach to get some playing time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted September 26, 2005 Share Posted September 26, 2005 Good to see Julian playing twice this week, on Wed vs. Betis and this weekend at Zaragoza. The team is still undefeated, Tristan is scoring, more or less it is working well. For the last game, his first start, I see on Canal Deportivo the poll has Julian with the fifth best player ratings, after strikers Tristan and Munitis, keeper Molina, offensive mid Valeron. He is ahead of midfield rivals Sergio, Duscher and Scaloni. Good sign, as is the fact that the coach praised the team for its play vs. Zaragoza and the general opinion that the team fell off a bit in the second half: and De Guz was subbed out with a half an hour still left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted September 26, 2005 Share Posted September 26, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S. Good to see Julian playing twice this week, on Wed vs. Betis and this weekend at Zaragoza. The team is still undefeated, Tristan is scoring, more or less it is working well. Any opinions on how much of this P/T is Julian moving up the roster versus 3 games in a week so team depth/tactics dictate a runout? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 Noticed Duscher is being targetted by Newcastle. Can never tell how much truth is in these sort of things but that may or may not be good news for The Guz. No sense involving a fellow any more than necessary if he's history come the January window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ed Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 Julian isn't there on trial, he's got some time to make his mark. He's moved up in the eyes of team management in Saarbruecken, then again in Hannover. I don't expect him to win over everyone overnight, but I do expect him to earn more p/t as he settles in and hopefully continue to improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.