Stephen Hart -- time to move on?

[The Beaver]

In light of the U-17s second failed attempt to qualify for the world championships under Stephen Hart, should the CSA look to bring in a new coach? And if so, who are some suggestions?

(I just want to preface this by saying that from what I've seen, I admire Hart and his professionalism. It is very difficult to qualify at this level and with only 3 CONCACAF positions available. Still, the question must be asked: Is it time for a new coach?)

[Free kick]

Off the top of my head, I believe that ( unlike National team coaches at other levels)an U17 coach shouldn't be judged solely on results but rather the type of players that he develops and the contributions that these players ultimately make later on at other age levels. It may be that Hart comes up short even under this criteria. I don't know.

But, as a supporter, is it really that importnant to achieve success at these levels? IMO I don't see much in the way of bragging rights when it comes to U17 teams.

Also, suppose that he sacrifices player development for the benefit of results. Which might theoretically mean picking players who are more physically mature but lacking in natural abilities. Would this make him a good coach? Consider that the last time that canada qualified for a U17 WC was when Twamley ( i think) was coach. Yet none of those players, save for one or two, are recognizable today and are not making any contributions to the senior teams. Does that make twamley a better coach than Hart? I don't know. Difficult to say when you are really not on the inside.

[footyfanatic01]

To be honest...no. Find me a better candidate then Stephen Hart, then maybe Yes, but off the top of my head I can't really think of a better coach. I think Hart is doing a good job, He's developing players, He's capping a variety of players to find the best players possible to make a winning team. I'd give him another year and if we get no success then I'd can him.

[ditty]

quote:Originally posted by footyfanatic01

To be honest...no. Find me a better candidate then Stephen Hart, then maybe Yes, but off the top of my head I can't really think of a better coach. I think Hart is doing a good job, He's developing players, He's capping a variety of players to find the best players possible to make a winning team. I'd give him another year and if we get no success then I'd can him.

Let's define the "role" of a national U-17 coach in developing players. Hart's time with the players is extremely limited, he's probably had them for a total of 6 or 7 weeks this year and that is in a qualificaton year. I agree that he ultimately develops players through his selection, which determines which players will gain international experience and exposure and which won't. But on a day to day basis, I believe that player development is achieved through a strong club system. The countries that are developing the best players presently are they ones that have a committed youth program in their professional clubs. Each FA certainly partners in this but the clubs are ultimately the ones seeing the players day in and day out.

So, I think a U-17 national coach should be judged on results in the sense that he needs to select players who can perform at international level and I don't think he can create them in the short time span he has with the players. Don't get me wrong, every coach has a hand in developing players some are in a position to do it more than others.

[sj]

I have not seen one of his selection in action to really judge his coaching phylosophy.

from what I've heard he trying to bringh more of a collective approach to the game that our other national team.

seems more that our national coaches spend more time evaluating players than gelling the team together.

players selection should be made at least 3 months in advance and use

the few exhibition games after that to create a collective unit on the field.

same senario with Yallop right now

why did he wait so late to assemble and re evaluate what look to more of a north American base squad for the gold cup.

with a majority playing in the USl, players availability could not have been an issue

looks like he is going to use his last tune up if there is still one to again evaluate players

this is why cohesion is one major characteristic that is constantly lacking with our various national teams

players running all our the field with no sense of understanding and real purpose still searching for each other

that is one of the major factors why we seems to be constantly lost and in dispair in the first game of a crucial qualifying phase

by the time the first game is over we are already behind the eight ball.

[MtlSoccerFan]

I agree with Ditty...the job of the National U17 head coach is to develop players for future teams such as the U20s, Olympic and hopefully the Senior team. How can you expect the U17s to qualify when they are together for only 6-7 tours in a span of two years. When the U17s played their US counterparts in October of 2004, the US had already played something like 56 games in total for the year while our boys had only played something like 9 games. Therefore the job of whomever is guiding the U17s should be solely on the development of youth players in the hopes of one day having 3-4 of those players playing on the Senior team.

[analyst]

It would be interesting to know what the CSA expected of Hart and whether he promised them that the team would make it past the first round. On the one hand you can't expect him to be responsible for player development because he spends very little time with each player. The players spend most of their time with the team coaches, who may be low level coaches, plus time with coaches from private soccer schools and time with provincial team coaches.

If they expect the CSA coaches like Hart to develop players, then how do they know if the players are developing. How do they measure progress of players and success of the coach in this area? Are they trying to be scientific about it?

Some people have suggested he should be judged on whether his palyers make it to the U20 team or the MNT. If that is the criteria for success, then we are in trouble because we won't know the results for 3 to 5 years.

[Observer]

Originally posted by analyst

It would be interesting to know what the CSA expected of Hart and whether he promised them that the team would make it past the first round. On the one hand you can't expect him to be responsible for player development because he spends very little time with each player. The players spend most of their time with the team coaches, who may be low level coaches, plus time with coaches from private soccer schools and time with provincial team coaches.

If they expect the CSA coaches like Hart to develop players, then how do they know if the players are developing. How do they measure progress of players and success of the coach in this area? Are they trying to be scientific about it?

In that case I count 9 players all born in 1986/87 from the team which was canada's last U17 squad now on Mitchell U20 for Holland.

Plus Peters already played for the senior team

[DoyleG]

1 CIARAVINO Joe

26/10/1976

2 PEEMAN Denis

12/08/1976

3 MAHONEY Matt

16/02/1977

4 KOJIC Milan

07/10/1976

5 CRAVEIRO Chris

17/01/1977

6 BENT Jason

08/03/1977

7 CLARKE Jeff

18/10/1977

8 PIZZOLITTO Nevio

26/08/1976

9 DI PLACIDO Dave

18/05/1977

10 CLYNE Alvin

19/08/1976

11 STALTERI Paul

18/10/1977

12 VAGLICA Agostino

22/04/1977

13 STATHOPOULOS Chris

29/12/1977

14 SALINA Christian

12/08/1976

15 WILLOCK Dominic

17/09/1976

16 BRENNAN Jim

08/05/1977

17 ARISTODEMO Robbie

20/05/1977

18 LONDON Steve

03/08/1976

Anyone want to gander which U17 this was?

[Observer]

Maybe the one that played in Japan judging from the ages