bettermirror Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 My club has been Destroyed - with a capital D. Manchester United has been purchased by a greedy American who will destroy the identity of the club and plunge them into financial ruin as the club is now responsible to not only pay off his personal debt but also the debt he accrued via the loans taken out to by Manchester United. The club will no longer represent a club - especially one that has always been owned by the fans. This is the risk they took when they went public and myself, at least, has always been aware that this could happen. Anyone with the capital can buy any public company. TRUE united fans have no boycotted any sponsorship product related to Glazer United. NO food-stuffs in the stadium nor team merchandise are to be purchased. The Manchester United Supporters Club have claimed allegiance and support from Supporters Clubs in Europe, Asia, Oceana (recognizing the FIFA boundary), South America and U.S.A. BUT, this won't make a difference in my opinion. Manchester United unfortunately hasn't become a success because of the "true" fan but rather the fickle fan that fell in love with David Beckham and Eric Cantona. Those same fans now wear Arsenal, Real Madrid, AC Milan, and Chelsea uniforms. On a playing point of view, the fans fear MUFC will no longer be able to afford the top players which may culminate in a much more "local" side. This would plunge the club from the top but in my view would make them more traditional and personal. Unfortunately, the image of the club would be ruined and it would become most likely impossible to achieve the same heights within the forseeable future. If the club is able to continue it's dizzying heights of success, they will no longer resemble a club of local lads nor British (including the Irish etc) talent that have come to form the face of this great club. They will become to look like Chelsea, Arsenal, and even Bayern Munich whom all start very few British players IF ANY. I pray for the future of my club and will support them even in the League Two (etc) and if they have to change their name to Newton & Heath Athletic and colours back to yellow and green. I will however, not support them financially. Will it make a difference in Glazer's pocket? I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarrek Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 How about wait and see what will happen before jumping to any conclusions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loud Mouth Soup Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 United fans have been a source of hilarity through all this. Poorly informed, angry that someone they don't like simply because he's some American who took advantage of the perfectly legal business opportunity presented to anyone who wanted to buy out the company. Yes, company. MUFC stopped being an FC with their public listing and it became more about the money and branding and image. quote:Originally posted by bettermirror My club has been Destroyed - with a capital D. Manchester United has been purchased by a greedy American who will destroy the identity of the club and plunge them into financial ruin as the club is now responsible to not only pay off his personal debt but also the debt he accrued via the loans taken out to by Manchester United. I love this one. Have you personally seen the bank statements and transaction records from the share purchase? Why would someone buy something like a sports franchise, the richest franchise in the world, to destroy it and use it as a debt carrier? Where is the solid proof he's throwing his personal debt on the club, as you claim? quote:The club will no longer represent a club - especially one that has always been owned by the fans. It hasn't been since it became a PLC and dropped the FC from it's name. And the fans haven't been the main owners. Cubic Expression are a company owned by two men who invest to earn money. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe one of the two is actually an Arsenal supporter... quote:TRUE united fans have now boycotted any sponsorship product related to Glazer United. NO food-stuffs in the stadium nor team merchandise are to be purchased. Well, you do this to hurt Mr. Glazer, as you claim. In the long-run, should it actually work, you hurt the club. You hurt your club's long-term financial picture. You hurt your club because if Mr. Glazer wants to invest in players or a bigger stadium, he has to borrow even more money and accrue more debt because the revenue streams are smaller than they were. Good move, smart guys. As for the sponsors? They simply stop renewing their invesetment and move on to other opportunities. Again, ManU lose out and are on even rockier financial footing (again, if your little 'protest' works). quote:On a playing point of view, the fans fear MUFC will no longer be able to afford the top players which may culminate in a much more "local" side. This would plunge the club from the top but in my view would make them more traditional and personal. See above. All your own doing. quote:Unfortunately, the image of the club would be ruined and it would become most likely impossible to achieve the same heights within the forseeable future. If the club is able to continue it's dizzying heights of success, they will no longer resemble a club of local lads nor British (including the Irish etc) talent that have come to form the face of this great club. They will become to look like Chelsea, Arsenal, and even Bayern Munich whom all start very few British players IF ANY. Prove this players comment, please. You are ruining your own reputation with pointless protests against a legal business transaction that your own board made possible. Where's your hatred and vitriol toward them? They put you in this position, did they not? Oh, and besides Fletcher, name me all the successful first teamers, from the home nations/Republic in the past five years. No, you don't get to include those you didn't develop like Rio, Rooney, Alan Smith. quote:I pray for the future of my club and will support them even in the League Two (etc) and if they have to change their name to Newton & Heath Athletic and colours back to yellow and green. I will however, not support them financially. Then by refusing to support them as a true fan, you make their demise that much more of a possibility. Congratulations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 quote:Originally posted by bettermirror My club has been Destroyed - with a capital D... As you acknowledge, this was the risk of going public. How you choose to respond is fair play, and I am not sure why LMS is being harsh in his reply. I think that the debt load is problematic for Man U. But really, the only way Malcom Galzer can pull this off is to be Real Madrid like in its player signings, unless there is a huge reserve of cash sitting around in the club coffers somewhere. So I think it is in Glazers best interest to keep the club at the top. You are right about the British players, but that was happening anyway. Yes, they always had the money to overpay for the top British players, but things have been relatively bare for Man U the last 4 years - their only title gifted to them - so one wonders how long they could keep it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loud Mouth Soup Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Gordon As you acknowledge, this was the risk of going public. How you choose to respond is fair play, and I am not sure why LMS is being harsh in his reply. I'm not so much harsh as feeling no pity for the club and their fans (whining for no real reason and acting all hard done by) when they knew perfectly well what can happen when you go public. You risk being bought out at every moment. I'm surprised it's taken this long to happen considering their financial status and reputation in world sport. They chose to put themseles forward as a business first, football team second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettermirror Posted May 17, 2005 Author Share Posted May 17, 2005 I don't need to defend my statements loud mouth soup. the facts are all there at various official premier league sites to find for yourself. Even Tottenham (and MANY more premier league club owners) know and state that he is HORRID for the british game and mufc as a club. and yes, i do recognize it's a legal takeover. i stated that. british players in united from the youth team from the last five years, only counting kieran richardson as a loan player - there are others: Wes Brown John O'Shea Phil Bardsley Daniel Nardiello yes, that list is small. but it looks a lot bigger when you add giggs, nevilles, etc. plus the players they have produced and sold: ie/jonathan greening, david beckham, robbie savage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loud Mouth Soup Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 So Bardsley and Nardiello are regular first teamers each week? Could have fooled me. And Beckham wasn't developed and a first teamer only in the last 5 years, bm. Same with the Neville sisters, Hairy Welsh Yeti and the others...I wanted recent players, hence the 5 year window. You say you don't need to defend your statements-but you fail to point to any statement that contains facts. You repeat the fearmongering the ManU supporters' "leaders in the cause" are spreading amongst the fans to further their own aims. You say everyone 'knows'. Know how? Please outline this arguement or point me to someone who can back it up, not just whine about it. The only thing I've seen on other official sites are 'he might be bad. Might. But hey-believe them if you want before a day has passed in the Glazer ownership. And if you want to hurt the club further, I'll gladly sit back and watch you do it. Doesn't affect my club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJT Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 Do we really need two threads on this on the same page? I think not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loud Mouth Soup Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 quote:Originally posted by DJT Do we really need two threads on this on the same page? I think not. Huh? Where? Oh, there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettermirror Posted May 18, 2005 Author Share Posted May 18, 2005 whatever you say loud mouth soup. your name fits the bill today. apologies for not naming regulars. and yes, obviously i realize the neville's etc weren' in the last five years. that was my point. that if you look beyond that in recent history the list is extended. i close my argument. your retorts will always be "wait and see" and "it's heresay." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loud Mouth Soup Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 So I'm to blame for upsetting you by stating the obvious? Something ManU fans refuse to see? Fine by me. And you are right about my 'retorts'. Why? Because you failed to prove your arguement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 I agree with those saying that if you go public to attract capital, don't be surprised if someone legally is attracted. In the end I think Glazer will be non-interventionist, as he has not a clue. Another thing is if he really wants the club to clear his own debt, but I'd imagine he'd have other, better ways to do that. So what is the big deal? If Man U fans want to control the identity of their club, then all they have to do is own it themselves. Like we do at Barça, all 130,000 of us members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 quote:They will become to look like Chelsea, Arsenal, and even Bayern Munich whom all start very few British players IF ANY. You are absolutely correct, Bayern Munich does not start very many if any British players. The one they have isn't even a real Brit and is not even a consistent starter. I agree with LMS that the ManU fan response is hypocritical and actually quite disgraceful. Saw footage of hundreds of fans carrying posters of Glazer chanting "He is going to die." Really warms the heart for ManU. ManU has been a big money capitalist club for years so Glazer's purchase is just business as usual. When Abrahmovic bought Chelsea this was at least a big change in how the club was owned and run. The ManU fans are only upset because he is an American not because he is significantly changing the style of club it is and how it is run. We as fans may dislike the fact that soccer and other sports are increasingly big money businesses but that is what clubs have to do if they want to be competitive today as Chelsea has shown. I would have a lot more respect for the ManU supporters if they had protested years ago while the club was becoming the McDonald's of soccer. Now that they are the McDonald's of soccer and have been for many years I don't see why they should make such a fuss over changing owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elricko Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 To me the bottom line of the problem, and some members here always seem to prefer to go all round the mulberry bush, is the fact that now Man . Utd. have huge debts to cover. Roman A. bought "my beloved Chelsea" outright, no debts--lotsa bread n' honey, brought in one of the best managers in the world ,and does not appear to interfere with the running of the football side of things. I feel we shall see a big diference with Glazer, he will want to recoup his expenses a nd much, much more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettermirror Posted May 20, 2005 Author Share Posted May 20, 2005 you knew what i meant, grizzly! smart-ass!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maccabi Posted May 21, 2005 Share Posted May 21, 2005 Some of fears that are being voiced revolve around what Glazer "might" do. For example it was speculated that Glazer "might" sell the naming rights to Old Trafford to Nike for $2 million a year. Or that his ultimate goal is to create a European Super League which "might" spell the end of English Premiere Football! Being an avid Arsenal fan I don't give a tinkers dam what "might" happen to Man. Ure. But it is quite funny to hear and see all the hijinks ensuing by the fans, protests, fires, threats. What I don't seem to see from the Man.Ure supporters is SUPPORT. Ulitmately Mr. Glazer is a business man and he has realized that to be successful in business one must surround oneself with the best advisors possible. Experts, people who know the the market, the history the fan base etc.. I find it hard to believe that any truly intelligent person would expect the man who turned around the worst franchise in the NFL and made them champions, would make decisions "willy nilly" by himself without the advise of "experts" in order to satisfy some meglomanical fanatasy. But then again no one said Red Devil supporters were intelligent! Glazer and his advisors I am sure understand that if he dosen't put a great product on the pitch he'll lose big bucks. ( Maybe Glazer should buy the Lynx. I'd be glad to burn my season tix, oops, forgot I don't have any.) To all Man.Ure supporters..good on ya! Keep up the good work protesting. BTW Have any of you heard of self-fulfilling prophesies? Google it! You "might" be suprised!!! ABMU (anybody but man u.) Gunners in the Cup!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loud Mouth Soup Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 United have also released Ramon Calliste, Ben Collett, Daniel Nardiello, David Poole, Lee Lawrence and Paul Tierney. Hey bm-you think Nardiello is still that good enough for ManU? they don't seem to think so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 I apologise in advance for reviving this dead thread for the nerdly purposes of finance theory, but... The reaction to $409m debt on a $1.47b transaction is a little melodramatic and a bit surprising coming from some of the "expert" commentary. Debt is cheaper than equity financing and produces a tax shield. People worry about the cash outflows of interest payments but never stop to think about the cost of equity. Implicit in the raison d'etre of the previous shareholders is the expectation of a cash outflow in the form of future dividends. I don't know the specifics of Manyoo's financials, but having no debt is not an optimal situation. It means you're working too hard to satisfy the needs of the equity holders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpionsoccer Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 quote:Originally posted by bettermirror My club has been Destroyed - with a capital D. Manchester United has been purchased by a greedy American who will destroy the identity of the club and plunge them into financial ruin as the club is now responsible to not only pay off his personal debt but also the debt he accrued via the loans taken out to by Manchester United. The club will no longer represent a club - especially one that has always been owned by the fans. This is the risk they took when they went public and myself, at least, has always been aware that this could happen. Anyone with the capital can buy any public company. TRUE united fans have no boycotted any sponsorship product related to Glazer United. NO food-stuffs in the stadium nor team merchandise are to be purchased. The Manchester United Supporters Club have claimed allegiance and support from Supporters Clubs in Europe, Asia, Oceana (recognizing the FIFA boundary), South America and U.S.A. BUT, this won't make a difference in my opinion. Manchester United unfortunately hasn't become a success because of the "true" fan but rather the fickle fan that fell in love with David Beckham and Eric Cantona. Those same fans now wear Arsenal, Real Madrid, AC Milan, and Chelsea uniforms. On a playing point of view, the fans fear MUFC will no longer be able to afford the top players which may culminate in a much more "local" side. This would plunge the club from the top but in my view would make them more traditional and personal. Unfortunately, the image of the club would be ruined and it would become most likely impossible to achieve the same heights within the forseeable future. If the club is able to continue it's dizzying heights of success, they will no longer resemble a club of local lads nor British (including the Irish etc) talent that have come to form the face of this great club. They will become to look like Chelsea, Arsenal, and even Bayern Munich whom all start very few British players IF ANY. I pray for the future of my club and will support them even in the League Two (etc) and if they have to change their name to Newton & Heath Athletic and colours back to yellow and green. I will however, not support them financially. Will it make a difference in Glazer's pocket? I doubt it. WHAT MAKES YOU THINK GLAZER WILL DESTROY UNITED, NOT THAT WOULD BE A BAD THING. GLAZER HAS TURNED AROUND A TERRIBLE TAMPA BAY BUCS FRANCHISE AND HAS MADE THEM AN NFL POWER. AS A LIVERPOOL SUPPORTER IT IS NICE TO SEE UNITED SUFFERING,JUST A WEE BIT. BUT SERIOUSLY GIVE GLAZER TIME, HE WILL REBUILD THE SQUAD AND UNITED WILL BE JUST FINE, IF UNITED WIN THE CL NEXT SEASON YOU'LL FORGET ABOUT THIS MESSAGE IM SURE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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