Italians At It Again (R)

[SeanKeay]

Well, what can you say.... they abandon the game because of crazy fans throwing flares at the keeper adn the ref.

Italy could be thrown out of compition for somthing like this, especially if something happens tommorow @ Juve/pool

[canadiankick97]

Wow...did anyone else see this!?

At least 50 flares thrown from the Inter end (seemed like a lot more)...unfortunately Dida couldn't get out in time but he was OK after getting treatment from the trainer.

Not just flares but bottles and glass, too.

[Massive Attack]

This is what we should have done during the Honduras game.

[Guest Ed]

quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack

This is what we should have done during the Honduras game.

Well someone threw a water bottle!!

[DJT]

I guess the Inter fans were going to lose it eventually (well, lose it again — there was also that UEFA Cup incident a few years ago), especially against Milan, and that bad call was the last straw. I taped the match but before I could watch it my father asked if I had heard what happened in the game, and my immediate reaction was that the Inter fans had done something.

[Massive Attack]

Just watched the repeat on TLN. I'm not condoning the Inter fans, they truely are idiots. But where does UEFA get these refs? The replay shows the ref having a clear view of Cambiasso's goal. The contact on Cafu was minimal. It makes you wonder why the goal was called off. Inter still would have needed 3 more goals with less then 20 minutes left. I never understood why refs always favour the team in defence.

[devioustrevor]

If UEFA doesn't hammer Inter over this they will lose what little credibility they have left. Inter need to be banned from European competition for at least one year and perhaps as many as 5. UEFA need also put all Italian teams under a probationary period of about 5 years with the threat of a European ban.

Perhaps a total ban on Italian teams would be a good thing though as it would be crippling for the teams necessitating a major re-organizing and forcing the teams and the Italian FA to take a hardline stance on security.

I don't think it's a coincedence that English fans are a lot better behaved now than before Heysel and the ban UEFA imposed on English teams.

[Elias]

This is what we need in Canada.

Forza!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Daniel]

quote:Originally posted by devioustrevor

If UEFA doesn't hammer Inter over this they will lose what little credibility they have left. Inter need to be banned from European competition for at least one year and perhaps as many as 5. UEFA need also put all Italian teams under a probationary period of about 5 years with the threat of a European ban.

Perhaps a total ban on Italian teams would be a good thing though as it would be crippling for the teams necessitating a major re-organizing and forcing the teams and the Italian FA to take a hardline stance on security.

I don't think it's a coincedence that English fans are a lot better behaved now than before Heysel and the ban UEFA imposed on English teams.

It has much more to do with stricter stadium policy. You're pretty much banned for life if you crack a flare inside an English stadium, and they have the technology and manpower to enforce it.

I could see a European ban on Inter for 1-2 years. I think 5 years is too much and I definitely think that this should not be extended to all Italian teams. When you look at the history of English hooligans in Europe prior to Heysel, the pattern of violence and death was much more widespread and much more dangerous than this situation (even accounting the object thrown at Frisk in Rome).

[TorontoInferno]

The restrictions on items brought into stadiums in Italy is a joke! Full backpacks can be brought into stadiums without even a cursury look, so its no wonder that these morons can bring in flares, flags, weapons or worse. In 2003, i attended a game in Perugia (where they had violence this past weekend, and were fined) against Siena, now the game was nowhere near a derby, but the teams were pretty close (Perugia is about 3 hrs away). Anyway, i had to walk through 3 rows of police, but they didn't stop me to see whats inside my backpack! I was amazed to say the least, At the ACC or anywhere for that matter in North America, you can't bring in a purse, without some usher asking you to take a look inside.

For me, its all a culture of allowance. The teams, the league and the government allows the ultras to attend the game no holds barred, flares, smoke bombs, flags are just a part of the game. That is the problem. They guys are protected, they are tolerated from a distance. The English have made impressive strides from Hillsborough and made their games almost a family affair. They dont take any crap from the known hooligans and quickly identify new ones. In Italy, the Ultras are like a hidden brotherhood of exploding testosterone and rage. It is something that has to be stopped. As a huge Juventus fan, i would hang my head in shame if they did something tomorrow afternoon in 'revenge' against Liverpool. And the TEAM should pay for the sins of the fans.

Hit the teams where it hurts, their pocketbook, and the teams will make the ultras go away quick, maybe not without a fight, but they will go. And not cursury fines. Million dollar fines, year bans, stadium closures, whatever it takes. The english learned from the european ban, and things changed for the better. Maybe Italy can and should learn from a ban too.

[Cheeta]

Missed the match but got the usualy comments from people at work as this is the only sort of thing that ever makes the papers when it comes to football, as it were.

The English clubs have used the big stick. At the time you could make the argument that they really had to. At least at certain clubs. Don't think that's quite true anymore. But what TorontoInferno wrote rings true. If you can keep the idiotic behaviour to at least OUTSIDE the stadiums it's a start.

P.S. Anyone ever spark one of those military flares in the house? Know a fellow who swiped one from cadets, cracked it up after puffing on a couple of Marleys and then tried to fire it out his bedroom window. Eventualy got it to go out the window but it cooked some of the shingle on his porch and had the whole block out wondering what the Hell was going on. Typical Transcona bunch though. No one bothered to call the fire department or anything.

[amacpher]

quote:Originally posted by TorontoInferno

Hit the teams where it hurts, their pocketbook, and the teams will make the ultras go away quick, maybe not without a fight, but they will go. And not cursury fines. Million dollar fines, year bans, stadium closures, whatever it takes. The english learned from the european ban, and things changed for the better. Maybe Italy can and should learn from a ban too.

MEh, I don't know. Lets not get carried away by a couple of incidents. Making going to games a "family affair" has its negatives too. Having a baseball-like atmosphere at soccer games is not in the best interest of the game. In Britain its okay, cuz they've got their songs. But in Spain and Holland, for example, lack of atmosphere in (some of) the grounds is a problem.

My thought is, if you wanna take your entire family to someplace fun, there's enough choices out there. ... Since I'm doing my taxes right now, it reminds me how much this world bends over backwards for people with kids already.

[Massive Attack]

Of course, Shevchenko escapes punishment for his head-butt on Materazzi.

[TorontoInferno]

quote:MEh, I don't know. Lets not get carried away by a couple of incidents. Making going to games a "family affair" has its negatives too. Having a baseball-like atmosphere at soccer games is not in the best interest of the game. In Britain its okay, cuz they've got their songs. But in Spain and Holland, for example, lack of atmosphere in (some of) the grounds is a problem.

My thought is, if you wanna take your entire family to someplace fun, there's enough choices out there. ... Since I'm doing my taxes right now, it reminds me how much this world bends over backwards for people with kids already.

I'm not talking about making games a disney production, but the ultras right now are walking a fine line between fan support for their team, and idiocy. Having watched the game again, the disallowed goal which was the catalyst of the whole thing, was good, so in one very small way i can simpathise with the fans in that regard, but their actions are just one incident in a long line of problems that threaten to have Italian football made an example by UEFA.

[Polish_LYNX_Fan]

Its not teh Ultras, its the hooligans. An Ultras is a completly different thing then a hooligan. The ultras are responsible for all the designes in teh stadiums all teh flags the tifo etc. Hooligans just go to games to knock some heads. So the Ultras are not walking any line the hooligans are walking that line but they have been walking it for a while now

[devioustrevor]

quote:Originally posted by Daniel

It has much more to do with stricter stadium policy. You're pretty much banned for life if you crack a flare inside an English stadium, and they have the technology and manpower to enforce it.

I could see a European ban on Inter for 1-2 years. I think 5 years is too much and I definitely think that this should not be extended to all Italian teams. When you look at the history of English hooligans in Europe prior to Heysel, the pattern of violence and death was much more widespread and much more dangerous than this situation (even accounting the object thrown at Frisk in Rome).

I didn't say the ban should extend to the other Italian teams, I merely suggested that they be put under probation. Be under constant probation for a couple of years might force the Italian teams and FA to take security seriously. If players and match officials can't be guaranteed their security when on the field, the games shouldn't be taking place. You shouldn't have to risk your personal safety just to play a soccer match, or referee it for that matter.

[SeanKeay]

Its not just inter fans, this is the second act by hoolies in italy. Roma and now Inter.. and i pray to god nothing happens tonight at juve

[Richard]

Inter should be banned from all European competition for five years minimum. This is disgusting, intolerable behaviour by spectators.

[ditty]

quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack

Just watched the repeat on TLN. I'm not condoning the Inter fans, they truely are idiots. But where does UEFA get these refs? The replay shows the ref having a clear view of Cambiasso's goal. The contact on Cafu was minimal. It makes you wonder why the goal was called off. Inter still would have needed 3 more goals with less then 20 minutes left. I never understood why refs always favour the team in defence.

Hmmm, didn't Dr. Markus Merk do the Euro 2004 final? He's definitely a top 5 UEFA ref. The reality is that one call does not mean a referee is instantly crap. That's the hard part of refereeing, you can have full control of an important match and one decision can affect the game and ruin your performance.

As for the foul, my thought is that it may have been called for a foul on Dida. GKs always get the benefit of doubt on contact for good reason. Nevertheless, that's a call I would certainly want back if I was Merk.

[Grizzly]

I thought the atmosphere at the game was great until this incident. While I probably wouldn't have annuled the goal, any player who interferes with the keeper risks being called for this regardless if it prevented the keeper from stopping the shot or not. There was definitely contact with the keeper and while there can be debate on whether it was severe enough to annul the goal from a rules point of view Merk made the right decision.

I was hit by a flare in Germany and it is probably a greater scare than danger but it is pretty scary. At the first moment you think you are completely on fire until you get away and see the damage wasn't as bad as you first thought. This can be seen in the keeper's initial reaction which exceeded the actual injury.

As far as punishment goes, this is not a one-off isolated incident but another in a string of incidents in Italy that seem to be getting worse and more regular. Remember in past years the Roma-Gala match where the police beat up the Turkish players, the Roma derby dead fan rumour incident, many incidences of racist chantings and signs against both blacks and Jews not to mention several incidents in the current year. At the moment Italy is by far the worst country for a visiting team to play in. The Italian FA has not remedied the situation so it is time for UEFA to do so. I think the reason this has not happened is because Italian soccer officials and clubs have a lot of power within UEFA (and European Continental alliances that England for example does not have). This power also rests largely with the same Italian officials who have not acted to clean up things domestically. I think if most other countries had a similar string of incidents they would have been more severely punished long ago. Had UEFA had the guts to give Roma a proper punishment after the Gala game the series of subsequent events may not have occured. Eventually the publicity of incidents in Italy will force either Italian or UEFA officials to take measures to curb this problem which will not cease until decisive action is taken. Let's hope that this is the incident that will cause this reaction because otherwise we are in for more incidents in Italy. Keep the electric atmosphere that occured during most of the match but make the game safe for the players and spectators.

[Polish_LYNX_Fan]

Wisla Krakow got a 1 year ban and a huge fine from Uefa when they played Parma a while back and a fan threw a pocketknife @ Dino Baggio, the guy was also sentenced to jail if I'm not mistaking so if they get anything less than a 1 year ban from europe and a huge fine its BS

[Richard]

If they can't stop the spectators from bringing in these weapons then perhaps the Italians need to go back to erecting mesh barriers between the stands and the field of play.

[DJT]

- Why did Dida stand around picking up flares and bottles as they continued to rain down around him? Sorry, but that was just stupid of him. He should have refused to play until the fans stopped. The ref should have called all the players off the field as soon as the first couple of objects came down.

- How many people would give a crap about this if it were just a Serie A match (which, for all intents and purposes, it was)? Not only people here, but especially in the media, where I have seen this incident mentioned in places where soccer is usually an afterthought (except, of course, when problems occur). There have been similar and worse incidents, except most of the time players don't get hit (see first point above).

[After Extra Time]

quote:At the moment Italy is by far the worst country for a visiting team to play in.

Worse than Turkey?? I don't think so!!

[Polish_LYNX_Fan]

I guess everyone hypes up their own heheh I could say its bad in Poland but I rather not