snake Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 U.S. Soccer scheduled the game for Legion Field, expecting a patriotic red-white-blue crowd. But, surprisingly, the majority of fans at game time consisted of blue-clad Guatemalan supporters. They filled the old football stadium with the sound of their national anthem, and cheered loudly for the Chapines. "We had 110,000 rooting against us the other day," Arena said he told the team before the game. "Now we have a real home-field advantage. We cut that number down by about 90,000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 That's funny. Good one, Bruce. One day someone is going to do a documentary on immigration, football and cheering for the old country and how all this ties into the immigration experience in NA. Should be a pretty interesting watch. Hmph. Wonder if I can get a grant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettermirror Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 why would they cheer for countries that have given them everything they have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew W Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 quote:Originally posted by bettermirror why would they cheer for countries that have given them everything they have? Because, although the US (or Canada as we have seen) has given them "everything they have" it doesn't change who they are, the roots they have and the traditions they embrace. A change of address may improve your social and personal standing in the world, but it doesn't define who you are and the ties you feel to your origins. Some choose to embrace their new home in every way possible (including soccer support) while many obviously keep connections to the home country (including, yes, soccer support). I also believe the support continues into second and third generations if the descendents are the product of a marriage within the same cultural community or if the non-American (non-Canadian) culture is the dominant one in the family. Does that make it right or wrong? I don't know, but I don't consider it that important to saddle these people with any sort of treasonous lable (and I'm not implying that you were, I just got on a roll with what was originally a short answer. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangoutoforder Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 Well said, Andrew. I have no problem ex-pats here cheering for the country of their birth. I'm now realistic with my expectations about the composition of the crowd. However, I raise my hand when the conduct of our "guests" gets out of control. Worse than that is that so many here choose to apologize and even ignore such behavior. I was at RFK in 2000 for the Guatemala match. Trust me: if a bunch of UVA frat boys were hurling half-full plastic bottle from the balcony at the Guatemalans we never would have heard the end of it. But when those underappreciated and cute people from Central America get out of control, well, they're just being boisterous and spontaneous. The double standard is so clear, so consistent applied and so appalling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhat Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 quote:Originally posted by bettermirror why would they cheer for countries that have given them everything they have? Like Italians, Iranians, Salvadoreans, English, or Germans that have lived in Canada for decades and cheer AGAINST Canadian teams? Probably it's more an issue of affinity to their ethnicity and "their sport" rather than the country. Just read the text messages that appear on Soccercentral ... just drives me crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoyleG Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 They probley figure that if they cheer for Canada in hockey, they would be left alone when it comes to other sports. Look at the 1994 World Basketball Championships as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhat Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 Yeah, the World Basketball Championship. A young Steve Nash out of Santa Clara with Rick Fox (Boston, at that time), Will Nkoju (Indiana),etc.etc. The "Yugoslavians" and the Greeks cheering for their "homeland". I don't really mind that, but to scream out "Canada sucks" is unpardonable. Cheer, but if you are inclined to disrespect your NEW homeland ... just STFU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elricko Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 Why is it one is expected to cheer for the country they are currently living in, I cheer for both the city and country where I was born, and in fact I am still a citizen of that country ,and intend to remain so, although I have lived in Canada for quite a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 The answer is not to put down the ex-pats who root for their own country for whatever reason but to get out more 'Canadian' supporters to these games so the ex-pats become nothing more than a mildy entetaining lunatic fringe. The people to blame here if there is to be any blame, are the apathetic 'Canadian' supporters who don't come out to the games in sufficient numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayWay Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Richard The answer is not to put down the ex-pats who root for their own country for whatever reason but to get out more 'Canadian' supporters to these games so the ex-pats become nothing more than a mildy entetaining lunatic fringe. The people to blame here if there is to be any blame, are the apathetic 'Canadian' supporters who don't come out to the games in sufficient numbers. And that's exactly who we're critisizing. I can't blame an immigrant for not taking to his new home's national side. I've never lived in a new country, so I can't possibly begin to understand the type of emotions someone in that position would feel. However, the fans who were born here and continue to support the auld country because it's fashionable and/or because they don't have enough loyalty/commitment to support a suffering Canadian side are definitely to blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayWay Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 quote:Originally posted by elricko Why is it one is expected to cheer for the country they are currently living in. You don't have to. But then don't bitch about Canada being crap or Canada being a "soccer wasteland". If you want change then do something about it. Support local soccer. Pump money into the local game. E-mail crappy hockey-centric networks when they neglect the national team. You bitching about ads between a ManU-Norwich game does nothing for soccer in Canada. For all your posts about that petty issue, I don't think I've seen you once pop-up in a thread pertaining to the Sportsnet neglect of Canada. Yet you still have the nerve to complain that Canada isn't enough like the auld country when it comes to soccer. Pure hypocrisy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettermirror Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 i apologize guys. what was meant as a passing remark in jest, and not at all that serious has sparked debate. a good one. that was an impressively well managed debate without insults. i do get so frustrated though when they cheer against canada (even after living here FROM BIRTH - thus responsible for everything they have essentially - and are only cheering for a country their parents have taught them to love) in a rude and obnoxious way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elricko Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 quote:Originally posted by JayWay You don't have to. But then don't bitch about Canada being crap or Canada being a "soccer wasteland". If you want change then do something about it. Support local soccer. Pump money into the local game. E-mail crappy hockey-centric networks when they neglect the national team. You bitching about ads between a ManU-Norwich game does nothing for soccer in Canada. For all your posts about that petty issue, I don't think I've seen you once pop-up in a thread pertaining to the Sportsnet neglect of Canada. Yet you still have the nerve to complain that Canada isn't enough like the auld country when it comes to soccer. Pure hypocrisy. I have coached boys teams here in Canada, had 3 sons in the system.In 13 years they NEVER missed one practise, NEVER missed one game, yet try to get that reliability factor through to the average Canadian-- Granma's birthday,a shooting weekend with Dad , blasting some of god's animals,or just plain "I forgot" are only some of the excuses! Canadians do NOT take their sports seriously enough, it's all "hockey or nothing" I USED to follow and support Canada at many sports -hah-you're just banging your head up against a brick wall. Soccer fans here make me laugh getting so agitated over a friendly match with Portugal, from which you can take so little . I have lived in 3 countries, and the sad fact remains that this one is a joke when it comes to sport. Why do you think the great swimmer Alex Baumann got sick of trying here , abandoned the country, and now coaches in Oz. With all my "petty" letter writing, along wtih others, at least Sportsnet stopped the commercials -didn't they? It must be awful to be Canadian and a soccer fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayWay Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 quote:Originally posted by elricko I have coached boys teams here in Canada, had 3 sons in the system.In 13 years they NEVER missed one practise, NEVER missed one game, yet try to get that reliability factor through to the average Canadian-- Granma's birthday,a shooting weekend with Dad , blasting some of god's animals,or just plain "I forgot" are only some of the excuses! Canadians do NOT take their sports seriously enough, it's all "hockey or nothing" I USED to follow and support Canada at many sports -hah-you're just banging your head up against a brick wall. Soccer fans here make me laugh getting so agitated over a friendly match with Portugal, from which you can take so little . I have lived in 3 countries, and the sad fact remains that this one is a joke when it comes to sport. Why do you think the great swimmer Alex Baumann got sick of trying here , abandoned the country, and now coaches in Oz. With all my "petty" letter writing, along wtih others, at least Sportsnet stopped the commercials -didn't they? It must be awful to be Canadian and a soccer fan. a) No, they just don't care about soccer. Soccer in this country is paramount to a simple substitution for a nanny in suburban households. I'm not surprised so many kids were non-commital. But soccer does not equal all sports. Go to any local Hockey rink and you'll find the situation is much different. Yeah, we love Hockey. I'd have it no other way. For all the time spent battling against complete cultural takover by the States, I'd just as soon fret the day Canada become a souless knockoff Euro-nation. Hockey is our passion. Don't like it? Tough. We've argued this point before. There's no point getting into it again. c) Canadian soccer fans make you laught getting agitated over one match, but I bet you're just dandy with the dramatics dished out by the British press over their national team, eh? So what is it? Do we not take our sports seriously enough, or do we take them too seriously? You can't have it both ways. d) Possibly because Alex Bauman lacks commitment and vision? He can do what he wants. I assume he's won enough medals for this country, he owes nothing to us. But I'll Tukesbury and the hundreds of agitated Cdn athletes who decided to stay in this country and lobby for increased funding over the likes of Bauman anyday. e) Your petty letter writing did nothing for Canadian soccer - no matter how effective it was. It doesn't take much to zap off a quick e-mail. The fact you could dedicate so much time and energy to one issue, yet not even blink an eye at another speaks volumes about your commitment. f) No, I quite like it. It's tough, sure, but that's life. When we finally qualify for the World Cup, all this suffering will make it all the more sweeter. And when that does happen, I wonder where you'll be? Will you put on a new face and act the part? Or will you merely sit in your living room, in your replica Owen - 10 top and your "England 'till I Die" flag, wishing you'd toughed it out during the bleak times, wishing you had the loyalty to a once less-fashionable cause that you just couldn't muster at the time when it was needed most? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoyleG Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 quote:Originally posted by JayWay d) Possibly because Alex Bauman lacks commitment and vision? He can do what he wants. I assume he's won enough medals for this country, he owes nothing to us. But I'll Tukesbury and the hundreds of agitated Cdn athletes who decided to stay in this country and lobby for increased funding over the likes of Bauman anyday. Bauman wasn't a pushover by a longshot. he was far more aggressive than a lot of other athletes in Canada when it came to funding. He was basically blacklisted in Canada because of his outspoken attitude. Australia knew what Bauman had to offer and gave him what he needed. Canada's athletes are way too passive when it comes to seeing their sports develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayWay Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 quote:Originally posted by DoyleG Bauman wasn't a pushover by a longshot. he was far more aggressive than a lot of other athletes in Canada when it came to funding. He was basically blacklisted in Canada because of his outspoken attitude. Australia knew what Bauman had to offer and gave him what he needed. Canada's athletes are way too passive when it comes to seeing their sports develop. Fair enough, I really don't know that much about the situation. It does seem though that amature athletes are starting to kick it up a notch as far as lobbying for more funding. At least that's the impression I get from that new advertising campaign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argh1 Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 quote:Originally posted by JayWay Sorry for editing posts guys ...but Jay-Way if I may agree with I definately do! Hockey is part of our identity end of story and so is 3-down Football and curling. Yes Canada in the WC will be wicked and our years of torment will make it oh so much sweeter. For some reason my red-neck nature (or is it melting pot instead of multi-cultural...I'll reflect) comes out on this living here and rooting for someone else. I may be able to get my head around new immigrants and support for the old country. But 1st-2nd-3rd generations nahhhhhhhh. This is our over taxed country that pays our health costs, provides public education to our children, paves the roads, has a gov't pension plan and on and on and on. Why the eff anybody who was born and brought up here doesn't support the MAPLE LEAF first is beyond my understanding. Anyone who only supports their country/team when they win is just a fair weather friend and except for the occasional influx of cash ...who needs them. If we want to out number these lost souls get out there and buy tickets to your local clubs if they win or lose or support in whatever way you can. Spread the gospel. Help make soccer part of our national identity instead of bitchin' about what's wrong all the time. Constructive critisism only, not just critisisim for the sake of it. Postive support is what's needed not constant negativity or we'll drive every volunteer away who loves the game. To say nuthin' of the youth who drop out 'cuz "Dad I'm not having any fun" Most of us probably played some form of hockey at one time or other. So why did hockey become so popular because we could watch tv and indentify with the play from pond , street , house league or whatever. Untill soccer gets to that level....be it a kick around , house league or elite Canadians generally haven't formed a bond with the game. Elricko I'm not picking on you. If you're proud of where you came that's way kewl. If I happened to live abroad I'd wave the MAPLE LEAF at every chance. But I'm interested to hear who your kids root for? Opppppppps I went too far again. Awright all who disagree take your shots. EDIT: 'CUZ I was on a roll and kept thinking up new points or lack there of. [] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elricko Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 I have paid good money to watch England play a friendly at Wembley, and vowed never again, you get a mere 47,000 souls trying to breathe some life into a meaningless fixture, that's what Portugal v Canada was--well to me, virtually meaningless, but not to the fans here desperate for any Canadian soccer. I USED to support Canadian sport-just plain too damn hard, it wasn't just soccer, athletics--parents were just there-did not make any attempt to understand the techicalities , and how many Canadian soccer parents stand there and say, "I'm always here to watch him/her play-but I don't understand the rules".Hockey , which I regard as a "quasi-sport " IS declining, it's a laughably,violent activity, that Canadian parents at long last are realising,puts their kids in danger of serious injury--HELLO--your league is shut down-first time ever--thank god whiney Linden won't be back ( hopefully).You put your faith of Canadian culture into this mickey-mouse declining past-time--surely all these facts just prove my point that there IS something else out there besides hockey--because that's almost GONE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 quote:Originally posted by DoyleG Australia knew what Bauman had to offer and gave him what he needed. I'll wager what he 'needed' it was a bigger paycheque. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoyleG Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Richard I'll wager what he 'needed' it was a bigger paycheque. Pre-fabricated response from you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 quote:Originally posted by DoyleG Pre-fabricated response from you. You disagree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoyleG Posted April 3, 2005 Share Posted April 3, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Richard You disagree? A big fat paycheque means nothing if you aren't given the freedom to do what you saw fit. Simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted April 3, 2005 Share Posted April 3, 2005 quote:Originally posted by DoyleG A big fat paycheque means nothing if you aren't given the freedom to do what you saw fit. Simple as that. And you speak with confidence for the person concerned? In the world of professional/elite 'amateur' sport it's money that talks loudest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elricko Posted April 3, 2005 Share Posted April 3, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Richard And you speak with confidence for the person concerned? In the world of professional/elite 'amateur' sport it's money that talks loudest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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