Daniel Posted April 7, 2005 Author Share Posted April 7, 2005 1. It's Saputo. 2. G-Man: you're an idiot 3. No, you are, I don't care what your rebuttal is. 4. Please stop posting idiocies 5a. Thank you. 5b. I said stop! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Man Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Daniel 1. It's Saputo. 2. G-Man: you're an idiot 3. No, you are, I don't care what your rebuttal is. 4. Please stop posting idiocies 5a. Thank you. 5b. I said stop! Danny boy. I'll post what I want no matter what you think. And I think there is some kind of house rule about calling someone an idiot cause they're pissing on your parade. The taxpayer did save the club. No doubt. Without that cash infusion in 2001/2002 the team was dead. I am wrong? Hydro (public ultility) gives the club a million a year. DO you think they need to? or that they get that back in new customers or even in good will? The club was saved (sic) to promote Montreal as a tourist desination. Which when you think about it, when an USL team becomes a major tourist draw for your town, you know you're trouble. You've become Flint. When I first heard that spouted by the PQ, I rolled my eyes. 3 years later is just makes me laugh. And.. as part of the deal the club was turned into a non profit organisation which allows it to fall uner the same tax rules as the United Way. So I'm guessing they don't pay any federal or provicial tax. And the Impact get an additional 150,000 thousand from the Federal Liberals for the 99 indoor season at the CCR indoor track? It public record. And the Drillers were turned down. We have a different take. But I'm not an idiot. The Impact are a nice turn around story. The club is well run. But lets not create fiction on who supplied the cash to do it. And that is why I'm very skeptical about a 60 million dollar stadium built by private funds. 3 years ago they couldn't find 1.3 million to save the team, but today......They're still waiting in Rochester for there SSS.... wait away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Man Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Daniel 1. It's Saputo. 2. G-Man: you're an idiot 3. No, you are, I don't care what your rebuttal is. 4. Please stop posting idiocies 5a. Thank you. 5b. I said stop! Danny boy. I'll post what I want no matter what you think. And I think there is some kind of house rule about calling someone an idiot cause they're pissing on your parade. The taxpayer did save the club. No doubt. Without that cash infusion in 2001/2002 the team was dead. I am wrong? Hydro (public ultility) gives the club a million a year. DO you think they need to? or that they get that back in new customers or even in good will? The club was saved (sic) to promote Montreal as a tourist desination. Which when you think about it, when an USL team becomes a major tourist draw for your town, you know you're trouble. You've become Flint. When I first heard that spouted by the PQ, I rolled my eyes. 3 years later is just makes me laugh. And.. as part of the deal the club was turned into a non profit organisation which allows it to fall uner the same tax rules as the United Way. So I'm guessing they don't pay any federal or provicial tax. And the Impact get an additional 150,000 thousand from the Federal Liberals for the 99 indoor season at the CCR indoor track? It public record. And the Drillers were turned down. We have a different take. But I'm not an idiot. The Impact are a nice turn around story. The club is well run. But lets not create fiction on who supplied the cash to do it. And that is why I'm very skeptical about a 60 million dollar stadium built by private funds. 3 years ago they couldn't find 1.3 million to save the team, but today......They're still waiting in Rochester for there SSS.... wait away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bxl Boy Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 G-Man, spiritual son of Kevan Pipe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bxl Boy Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 G-Man, spiritual son of Kevan Pipe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted April 7, 2005 Author Share Posted April 7, 2005 Well, your points stand up so well seeing as they're made up. The Government invested $500k over 3 years, NOT $1m a year. Consider it a subvention like any business gets. The non-profit means that it can attract big sponsors who like the tax breaks. And the group of owners now are NOT the owners that were there from 1993-2001, so it's kinda retarded to have them accountable for the faults of the previous ones. And I do think you're an idiot, spreading dissinformation and annoyance. Like you said yourself, "I'll post what I want no matter what you think". So let me re-iterate that you're an idiot (let me add with some kind of axe to grind), in case people missed it and are actually taking what you say as gospel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Man Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Daniel Well, your points stand up so well seeing as they're made up. The Government invested $500k over 3 years, NOT $1m a year. Consider it a subvention like any business gets. The non-profit means that it can attract big sponsors who like the tax breaks. And the group of owners now are NOT the owners that were there from 1993-2001, so it's kinda retarded to have them accountable for the faults of the previous ones. And I do think you're an idiot, spreading dissinformation and annoyance. Like you said yourself, "I'll post what I want no matter what you think". So let me re-iterate that you're an idiot (let me add with some kind of axe to grind), in case people missed it and are actually taking what you say as gospel. Man- I hate to see you at game when the other teams fans start taking the piss out of you. You must colaspe under the pressure. As per the links beneath, Hyrdo Quebec, which is owned by the Quebec Government, so it's one of the same thing, ponies up a 1 million a year- they signe don for 5 years. So that would mean- that overall that figure is close to 1.5 million a year from the public purse. And if you read the article, Saputo gets to write off an additional one million as part of sponsoring a team it already owns. Note the last paragraph about promoting tourism. I bet thousands have flown into Montreal and spent millions going to Impact games. In other words someone managed to get a favour thrown their way. There was no real economic justification for the funds. Anyway some links to back it up, http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=4693&messageid=1007674171 http://www.culturescanada.ca/news.php?detail=n1008207057.news and the additional federal funding: ConservativeGroundswell "The “Montreal Impact”, an indoor soccer team, received $150,000 in Sponsorship Fund funds during the 1998-99 season. The following year, an almost identical proposal for the Edmonton Drillers Soccer Club was declined, but an MP intervened and BOTH the Montreal AND Edmonton teams received $30,000." So the Impact got 180,000 over 2 years. So I was wrong-the Drillers did mange to get 30,000 out the Feds. As a taxpayer in Quebec I'll be making sure that my MPP knows that I don't want a single provicial dollar going into a SSS as they've recieved their fair share already. I'll also ask him that they play a home game in my hometown. Considering that all teh taxpayers in teh province have leant a hand. I'm from Rimouski and the game with Rhinos would do fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted April 7, 2005 Author Share Posted April 7, 2005 If you're gonna complain about tax dollars being spent improperly, I'm sure there's things much worse than a soccer stadium (especially when most funds will come from the private sector - like they had for the Bell Centre). Especially for a supposed soccer fan. And you need to stop bandying about that $60m figure which seems to be pulled out of your ass. This is my last post in this thread, and I'm dissapointed to see that you've completely ruined it. Congrats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoyleG Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 The Impact didn't get the $150K from the federal sponsorship program. They only got 30K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Man Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Daniel If you're gonna complain about tax dollars being spent improperly, I'm sure there's things much worse than a soccer stadium (especially when most funds will come from the private sector - like they had for the Bell Centre). Especially for a supposed soccer fan. And you need to stop bandying about that $60m figure which seems to be pulled out of your ass. This is my last post in this thread, and I'm dissapointed to see that you've completely ruined it. Congrats. Right. I post the Maine Stadium and people said that it looks and feels cheap and that was 6.1 million US for 8 thousand seats. You can't have it both ways. In Rochester, the stadium costs are at 25 million US (low) (They've asked for another 9 million. That's without having to buy the land or build infrastructure. The same park in Montreal, with land and with the exchange rate would be near 60 million Canadian. In Ottawa, the Sens spent 14 million alone on a highway overpass. There is no way that the Stadium in TO is going to only cost 70 million. Add the cost of extending transport and even building extra parking. All those costs are real. The new 22 thousand seat stadium in Salt Lake is costing 60 Million US. So what is that 90 million Candian. http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci_2611808 Colarado Rapids are talking about needing 130 Million US to build a 20000 seater with 10 other feild around it. http://denver.bizjournals.com/denver/stories/2004/07/26/daily21.html Democrat and Chronicle And for more on stadium fraud, and a very interesting site... http://www.fieldofschemes.com/ I agree. No funding for pro sports. I was glad the Expos were told to get a life. Now Washington is spending over 300 million. Just think how non soccer fans will see this. You need to come up with some arguements for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Impact Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 Hey G-Man..... you say you live in eastern Quebec.....uhhhh I could see why you don't want the Impact to recieve hand outs, seeing that a large part of the region lives on them through out the winter months. Are you afraid that more for the Impact means less for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Man Posted April 8, 2005 Share Posted April 8, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Mr.Impact Hey G-Man..... you say you live in eastern Quebec.....uhhhh I could see why you don't want the Impact to recieve hand outs, seeing that a large part of the region lives on them through out the winter months. Are you afraid that more for the Impact means less for you? No I'm afraid it's a stupid idea (SSS). And as stupid ideas goes Montreal has already had it's fair share. I grew up in Montreal. I have seen the follwing teams play: Montreal Oylmpics (Autostade and U of Montreal) Montreal Castors (CCR) Montreal Manic (Olympic Stadium) Inter Montreal (Jarry Park) Montreal Supra (CCR) Monteal Impact 1 (CCR) Montreal Impact 2 And if each case the stadium didn't make them or break them. Losing and poor marketing did. The Phillies have seen season tickets decline by 5000 one year after moving into a new 350 million dollar stadium. The novelty of "if you build it they will come" is long gone. It's back to "offer a good on feild product and they will come" http://www.fieldofschemes.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pony Posted April 8, 2005 Share Posted April 8, 2005 At least you did your homework. Can't argue with your facts, but as far as tax dollars in quebec go ... Considering that the province funds a baby sitting service, radio shock jocks, and government sponsored industry hubs (and does so on the back of Alberta, Ontario and Saskatchewan), I don't think its right to complain about equity for the quebec tax payer. Few million going into a soccer stadium, hum ... Did you ever think that this project is as much about cultivation as it is corporation. What I mean is that a 'real' stadium will further raise the profile of football as a profession in the province and the country. You know, one of those investments into the future. Maybe 20 years from now, the PQ government won't have to pay as many nannies, because all the kids are off at soccer practice. A few million is a drop in the bucket for the government anyway. If you mean to tell me that you aren't willing to put out 10 bucks for an investment in credibility (cost of the proj/pop of quebec), then I'm sorry you are not a friend of canadian soccer. Second thought, I'll write you a cheque. I appreciate your realism. However I (and from what I've read) and the others on this board would appreciate some optimism towards a worthwhile project. We all realise its a sacrifice, but we all realise that sacrifice must be made somewhere if we want to come out of the footballing widerness. "A mighty flame begins with a single spark" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Impact Posted April 8, 2005 Share Posted April 8, 2005 G-Man, You keep on harping on the fact that the deal would involve Tax Payers money, via Hydro-Quebec, or the Federal Government. Here is a list of the Impacts partners; http://www.impactmontreal.com/partners.htm I pay for the use of my Hydro, so you know what, If they want to contribute to the building a new SSS fine by me. As far as the Feds are concerned, no mention is made that the WHOLE project will be funded by the FEDS. As far as the Impact is concerned, they fill their stadium, and then some. It makes perfect business sense to look towards a stadium that is able to accomodate the increased demnand. Furthermore, I dont think the Impact is over-shooting here. Fact is, that this is the USL, and were not talking about exagerated salaries here. The project as a whole is sustainable. (this is not the NHL let alone the MLS) And lastly, I think Quebec and more importantly the City of Montreal should fight for every penny we can get, cause if we dont egt it someone else will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Man Posted April 8, 2005 Share Posted April 8, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Pony At least you did your homework. Can't argue with your facts, but as far as tax dollars in quebec go ... Considering that the province funds a baby sitting service, radio shock jocks, and government sponsored industry hubs (and does so on the back of Alberta, Ontario and Saskatchewan), I don't think its right to complain about equity for the quebec tax payer. Few million going into a soccer stadium, hum ... Did you ever think that this project is as much about cultivation as it is corporation. What I mean is that a 'real' stadium will further raise the profile of football as a profession in the province and the country. You know, one of those investments into the future. Maybe 20 years from now, the PQ government won't have to pay as many nannies, because all the kids are off at soccer practice. A few million is a drop in the bucket for the government anyway. If you mean to tell me that you aren't willing to put out 10 bucks for an investment in credibility (cost of the proj/pop of quebec), then I'm sorry you are not a friend of canadian soccer. Second thought, I'll write you a cheque. I appreciate your realism. However I (and from what I've read) and the others on this board would appreciate some optimism towards a worthwhile project. We all realise its a sacrifice, but we all realise that sacrifice must be made somewhere if we want to come out of the footballing widerness. "A mighty flame begins with a single spark" Well I would argue that a more worthwhile project would be getting the Impact into a better league. Like the MLS. The USL is a minor league. AND If the goal is simply getting Canada to break out of CONCACAF and make the World Cup, the MLS is a better option. But then again you could argue that Norway has a second rate league and makes the World Cup quite a bit. So it probably has more to do with local coaching than stadiums or even local fan devotion. I would also never put building a SSS on the same level of importance as providing a proper learning environment to pre school children. I realised that Mike Harris's idea of "screw you" found a home in Ontario, but there are advantage to working families have access to day care programs. They can now spend their money on food and rent and even Impact games. Nor would I do as the City of Ottawa did and offer up property tax breaks to a sports team (Sens) and then not offer them up to other property owners. Like people who actually live in the city. The Montreal has a great facility. It's called the Olympic Stadium. It's hosted an Olympic Gold medal game (the Largest Soccer crowd in Canadain History- 72000) and where the Manic averaged 23,000 a game before screwing things up. I remember 58000 watching the Sting for a play-off game. It's even on an existing Metro line. Also thanks to RDS- the profile of pro soccer in Quebec is higher than anywhere else in Canada or even North America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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