Impact looking at SSS for 2007

[DoyleG]

The Impact will have a stadium that they will control everything?

Sounds good to me.

[Bxl Boy]

The 2007 offer will be paired with the Impact future as it's the wish of the Montreal 2007 candidature commitee (even if it's not led by Joey Saputo himself - he's in anyway - nor someone of the city)

[Kelly]

quote:Originally posted by Daniel

Say what you will Kelly, I think we just have different outlooks.

I have pics of the ex-autostade in my previous posts.

Having actually attended games at the Autostade. I saw Hearts play Brazil! (or some Brazilians). I can say with all honesty, this would be a terrible location. No one lives near it. There is nothing of value around it.

The Als actually moved back to Molson in the early 70's after moving to the Autostade, as they saw their attendance drop quite a bit, due to the location.

There is a reason that this site has sat empty for 30 years.

[Mr.Impact]

FYI The Aquatic games are back on again......and I think the olympic pool as been replaced by the Biodome...

As for the stadium................I still say a refurbished CCR will be the final choice. I dont think Joey Sap and his group are gonna dish out millions for a complete new stadium, unless of course he gets major tax advantages. As was mentioned early the bad part is that its unlikely that the track is gonna go.

[Daniel]

quote:Originally posted by Mr.Impact

As for the stadium................I still say a refurbished CCR will be the final choice. I dont think Joey Sap and his group are gonna dish out millions for a complete new stadium, unless of course he gets major tax advantages. As was mentioned early the bad part is that its unlikely that the track is gonna go.

Well, seeing as Saputo has said over and over that the stadium won't have a track, I'm thinking that if they do refurbish CCR, they'll move the track. The other problem that a refurbished CCR would pose is lack of parking (imagine a 15,000-seater when there's problems with 9,000!) and what would essentially need to be a complete overhall of the stadium. IMO, that would probably end up costing as much as building a new one. Also, with a new stadium, all the revenue is the Impact's, not the city's. Remember that CCR is city-owned.

As for the location, like I've pointed out, a billion-dollar refection program has been proposed for the Old Port section right beside it (and Cité du Havre) and would include much improved local infrastructure and transportation.

[G-Man]

quote:Originally posted by Daniel

Well, seeing as Saputo has said over and over that the stadium won't have a track, I'm thinking that if they do refurbish CCR, they'll move the track. The other problem that a refurbished CCR would pose is lack of parking (imagine a 15,000-seater when there's problems with 9,000!) and what would essentially need to be a complete overhall of the stadium. IMO, that would probably end up costing as much as building a new one. Also, with a new stadium, all the revenue is the Impact's, not the city's. Remember that CCR is city-owned.

As for the location, like I've pointed out, a billion-dollar refection program has been proposed for the Old Port section right beside it (and Cité du Havre) and would include much improved local infrastructure and transportation.

Yes the revenue would be the Impacts, however so would all the cost. Everytime a lightbulb needed changing, to fixing a clogged ****ter to maintaining a grass feild. chaaaaching. And of course they still have to pay taxes on everything sold inside and lets not forget property taxes on a 80 million dollar building. And what about liability insurance. Some guy slips and sues? A flare goes off into some chicks hair? Security costs....it all adds up.

Very few NFL teams build their own stadium. Joe taxpayer pays for it and the team gets everything or they move.

IBM leases office towers.

How a USL team could do it (build a stadium) and have only 14 home games a year, is doubtful. What would they do the other 338 days of the year. The Skydome has over 200 events a year and loses big time money.

People can bitch about leases-but when it comes to it- it's much cheaper to rent than to own.

In 1995 The Corel Center cost 250 million to build. Last year the team and the rink sold for little over a 100 million.

They'd have to be insane.

Note: Olympic Pool is still there. The Biodome ate the velodrome.

[Richard]

Interesting that Greg Kerfoot in Vancouver seems to think building and owning facilities is a worthwhile investment. Nothing on the scale of Skydome or the Corel Centre to be fair.

[Champ]

In the heart of the majestic St. Lawrence River, the islands of the Parc Jean-Drapeau are a fitting site for the XI FINA WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS. Since Expo 67, one of the

most important international expositions of all time, tourists, spectators, and athletes have come together in a spirit of fraternity and competition in this most idyllic of locations.

http://www.montreal2005.org/eng/Installations/installations.cfm

A little bird told me

Possible site for the new soccer stadium, next to the aquatic games site. See above link for map.

[Bxl Boy]

There are four possible sites (including CCR)

It this is one of them, I love it (better than the autostade)

[Richard]

Looks a good prospect. Rather like the Whitecaps' preference for building their SSS on the former site of the Vancouver Indy start/finish line, between GM Place and BC Place in downtown Vancouver.

[Daniel]

Jean-Drapeau would really bring home the "event" nature of a game. However, the stadium would be plopped down in the middle of the island, which doesn't have any restaurants or bars. Of course, if the stadium had a pub...

CCR, Jean-Drapeau, Autostade. Pray tell what the 4th potential location is.

[youllneverwalkalone]

The analysis of the business case for this stadium has yet to consider the fact that in 2005 there are at least 12 international dates. Whoever builds the first reasonable SSS will have a shot at what I'd estimate to be a $5-10 million annual 'dividend'. [Assuming a Saputo- like organization could straighten out the CSA]. The possibility of bringing over European club sides in the summer could also be a huge revenue generator.

[RJB]

Putting grass in the Big O may be good for the tournament, but if you think of the future of soccer in this country, it won't help.

Much like if Vancouver builds a 'temporary' facility somewhere: Good to watch WYC games, but it doesn't help soccer in the nation.

I'mn unfamiliar with Montreal, but a SSS with a metro there doesn't sound so bad to me. I'd push for that, as long as it had no track.

[Richard]

Vancouver will only construct a temporary facility for the WYC if the permanent facility cannot be made ready in time. There WILL be a permanent facility built.

[Daniel]

quote:Originally posted by RJB

Putting grass in the Big O may be good for the tournament, but if you think of the future of soccer in this country, it won't help.

Much like if Vancouver builds a 'temporary' facility somewhere: Good to watch WYC games, but it doesn't help soccer in the nation.

I'mn unfamiliar with Montreal, but a SSS with a metro there doesn't sound so bad to me. I'd push for that, as long as it had no track.

A SSS by definition has no track. And I'd say minus the minuscule possibility of a CCR refection with no possibility of moving the track, there won't be one. Montreal doesn't care about stands for track, but the city wants the facilities (which they have currently at CCR).

A new stadium WILL be accessible by metro.

[Danny Boy]

I would assume, since Kerfoot wants to make the best small sports franchise in North America, that he would model his ideal stadium after the Chelsea Village concept. Hotels, restaurants, conference rooms etc. Since there wouldn't be more than 50 dates of events at the stadium per year, he would have to supplement income somehow.

[Calgary Boomer]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

Interesting that Greg Kerfoot in Vancouver seems to think building and owning facilities is a worthwhile investment. Nothing on the scale of Skydome or the Corel Centre to be fair.

He knows the business won't grow any further by being at Swangard.

[G-Man]

quote:Originally posted by Danny Boy

I would assume, since Kerfoot wants to make the best small sports franchise in North America, that he would model his ideal stadium after the Chelsea Village concept. Hotels, restaurants, conference rooms etc. Since there wouldn't be more than 50 dates of events at the stadium per year, he would have to supplement income somehow.

Lets not forget that it was the hotel that made the skydome cost rocket leaving Ontario taxpayers on the hook for a privatley funded stadium in the hundreds of millions. The final coast was close to 300 million. It recently sold for 60 million.

As said earlier, Stadiums don't mean crap if the team sucks. The Pirates built a brand new park that was going to save them in the long run. 4 years ago 2.5 million came out and saw the new park. Last year they drew 1.5 million and have become the new Expos. They drew better at the old park when they were winning.

And why does it make sense for a USL team with 14-15 home dates to build and pay for their own stadium when NFL and MLB team with the billions from TV revenue don't?

Most USL teams play out of high school or JR college stadiums.

But It may work (SSS)if it was done on the cheap. Here's an all- Aluminium model...that might actually allow the impact to make some money. It cost 6.1 US and seats 10000. So spend 12.2 Million US and build a 20000 seater.

http://goblackbears.collegesports.com/facilities/main-morse.html

In Montreal they could build it in the parking lot of Place Versailles. Think of all those shoppers sticking around to take a game in--- And it's on a metro line (cause most people get to games using the Metro- That's why the Expos drew so well) and it's also near a highway.

Or you could even build it inside the existing Big Owe. Talk about a novel concept- a stadium within a stadium. The Impact could be the first team to play in a stadium within a stadium- it's be the talk of the universe and fans would flock to it- until a stadium was built inside a stadium within a stadium.

http://www.placeversailles.com/maps/map.html#

people don't worship stadiums- they worship teams and players.

[Daniel]

All joking aside, the 2006 WC stadium in Leipzig is a stadium within a stadium. And I think the new Juve one will be as well.

[G-Man]

quote:Originally posted by Daniel

All joking aside, the 2006 WC stadium in Leipzig is a stadium within a stadium. And I think the new Juve one will be as well.

Ha! That' great stuff.

[Grizzly]

Pretty sharp, Daniel, you even beat the ex-Leipziger to it! I don't think a stadium could be built within the Big O at a reasonable cost as it is a total different style of stadium than the old Leipzig Zentralestadion. The Leipzig stadium as you can see was a huge (largest stadium in either Germany and bigger than the big O) shallow bowl type of stadium with a solid concrete construction and no walls. Even so quite innovative architecture was required to build the new stadium inside it. The big O is a walled and roofed structure that would require major extensive de/reconstruction to allow for another stadium to be built inside. In fact it would probably pretty much have to be demolished and it would cost much more than just building on an empty site. Additionally any hybrid big O stadium would probably inherit some of the disadvantages of the original big O design and certainly that of location.

quote:Here's an all- Aluminium model...that might actually allow the impact to make some money. It cost 6.1 US and seats 10000. So spend 12.2 Million US and build a 20000 seater.

The aluminum stadium you mention has to be one of the ugliest stadiums I have seen. It is only a slight step up from a stadium consisting of temporary seating. In fact, I think the temporary seating at Frank Clair for the Grey Cup looked much nicer than this. The Impact would be just as well to stay at CCR instead of building something like this. If we are going to build SSS stadiums they need to invest the money to build something half decent and professional looking that will be comfortable and enjoyable for people who attend games. The new Leipzig stadium would be a great model as it may be the nicest of the 2006 WC stadiums and is certainly superior to the inflatable blimp style stadiums going up in several other German WC cities which remind me quite a bit of the big O and Skydome. However, it is probably far beyond what any team here can afford even with smaller capacity as it is sad to state that Canada does not have one outdoor sports stadium remotely comparable to this. But surely we can and must do much better than this University of Maine stadium which looks like a newer more metallic version of Richardson. Do it right or don't do it at all. We already have crappy soccer stadiums in Montreal and other Canadian cities so it is useless to spend money on newer crappy stadiums.

[Daniel]

When Saputo does something, he does it right. But he has to surround himself with competent people, which isn't always the case for those who have seen the Impact office (some people are just "general" workers put into a specific task).

[Calgary Boomer]

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

If we are going to build SSS stadiums they need to invest the money to build something half decent and professional looking that will be comfortable and enjoyable for people who attend games.

You're right Griz. It's not just soccer, but outdoor concerts that the new MLS stadiums are being built for. (I don't much care for the built in stages in Dallas & Chicago)

Temporary stadiums give the club a temporary feel. If you're going to start a long term meaningful relationship with a soccer team, you want to know it's going to last beyond 1 season.

[G-Man]

quote:Originally posted by Calgary Boomer

You're right Griz. It's not just soccer, but outdoor concerts that the new MLS stadiums are being built for. (I don't much care for the built in stages in Dallas & Chicago)

Temporary stadiums give the club a temporary feel. If you're going to start a long term meaningful relationship with a soccer team, you want to know it's going to last beyond 1 season.

The Impact draw 9k a game. But for a while they drew as low as 2500. They could be back there again in 3 years.

The Impact may be hot today, but that does mean it could survive, if starts living beyond it’s means. Like spending 60 million on a stadium. The Ottawa Sens thought a new rink would save it. It didn’t. 300 million in debt, the team finally went into bankruptcy and was sold rink included for 100 million.

So Suputeo could build it, but would they own it in 5 years?

When you think most lower division teams in Europe play in small old stadiums, like Odd in Norway, why can’t a USL team.

http://www.stadiumguide.com/oddstadion.htm

And I totally disagree that Montreal needs a SSS. The U-20 World Cup can use Olympic Stadium, the Impact could move to McGill or stay put.

If Supputo wants to build the sport in Montreal they could fund a 10 field, field turf facility at the former Miron quary site , that all players,in Quebec could use. Call it payback for the 6 million put into the team by the taxpayer of Quebec.

And it just came out that the Impact got 150K in 1998 from the Ad scandel hitting the Federal Liberals, while the Drillers were refused...(interesting..)

And considering if it wasn't for that infusion of taxpayer money- the team would have folded 3 years ago.

So who really saved the team? It wasn't Joey.

[Grizzly]

If I was the one investing money in the stadium I would have some of the same apprehensions as you do. However, you also have to take a chance at times and Sapputo may have the money to be able to risk that building a decent stadium will pay off. Regardless, it would be a complete waste of money building a stadium like the one at U of Maine. That stadium and the Odd Grenland one (many lower division teams do play in less than luxurious stadium but this is an exceptionally poor one) are actually worse than CCR. If soccer were as popular as hockey is in Canada people would come regardless of a crappy stadium. If they are going to invest money in a stadium they should make it a good stadium or it is a very unwise investment. In other words if they build a crap stadium they have a 100% chance of losing their shirt while if they build a good one there is a chance that they will recoup their investment.