leekoo Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 "How about being stabbed in the back (by the CSA)," said Bruno Hartrell, chief financial officer for the Lynx, now drawing about 2,000 a game to Etobicoke's Centennial Stadium. "We've been banking, waiting on this stadium — the one that's coming in at York — for 10 years," Hartrell said. "Cumulatively, we've put $4.5 million into carrying this team, $4.5 million into waiting, knowing that, one day, we were going to get this stadium. "Along comes the CSA two years ago — on its own, unilaterally saying it was going to promote a Major League Soccer ownership group in Toronto. "As if we needed that, right? As if soccer's doing so really well, we don't need one professional team, we need two teams in Toronto? "We've tried to sell soccer tickets in this market for nine years and have a pretty good idea of who buys what and for what price. We're not missing anything, you know. "I think any professional team — the Lynx or, let's call it, MLS, in the near future, meaning within the next five years, would be hard-pressed to draw more than 10,000 fans a game." Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanKeay Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 Oh the hartrells are F(U)CKING idiots, i dont care if im swearing or anything. Yah i kno they have spent 4.5 million on the team...But COME ON, you sign brazillians and force the coach to play them because there from brazil, and then lose a great coach because of it. They spend there money on crap, get no radio deal, bash media anytime they get media. UGGGGGG THERE MORONS.. THATS WHY THE CSA DOESNT DEAL WITH YOU.. YOUR CRAP!!!! Sorry.. there is my little rant.. im not even sure if it makes sence but when is that ever to stop me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polish_LYNX_Fan Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 HAHHAH this is sooo funny BRUNO hahah I cant wait for the opener we will chant MLS MLS MLS !!!! Hopefully the crowd joins in and pisses BRUNO off !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 This is the first time in their 9 year history that they have been mentioned on the front page of the Star sports section. Guess it was a slow news day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 Yeah, I mentioned that in the other thread (under the 2nd Wheelock article), where I also ripped Bruno's comments apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbailey62 Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 quote:Originally posted by leekoo "How about being stabbed in the back (by the CSA)," said Bruno Hartrell, chief financial officer for the Lynx, now drawing about 2,000 a game to Etobicoke's Centennial Stadium. "We've been banking, waiting on this stadium — the one that's coming in at York — for 10 years," Hartrell said. "Cumulatively, we've put $4.5 million into carrying this team, $4.5 million into waiting, knowing that, one day, we were going to get this stadium. "Along comes the CSA two years ago — on its own, unilaterally saying it was going to promote a Major League Soccer ownership group in Toronto. "As if we needed that, right? As if soccer's doing so really well, we don't need one professional team, we need two teams in Toronto? "We've tried to sell soccer tickets in this market for nine years and have a pretty good idea of who buys what and for what price. We're not missing anything, you know. "I think any professional team — the Lynx or, let's call it, MLS, in the near future, meaning within the next five years, would be hard-pressed to draw more than 10,000 fans a game." Link I truly sympathize with the predicament in which the Hartrell's find themselves. They are in tough and they know full well that if MLS should come to Toronto, they will have to either shut down, move the franchise, or sell the franchise to someone who will locate it elsewhere. But the sad truth is that soccer in Toronto needs a shot of adrenaline and the Lynx are not going to provide that. They could win the A-League championship and it would not have any measurable impact. The Hartrell's deserve great credit for keeping the Lynx alive but they had to know that this could happen. While others here have differing viewpoints, in my opinion (as I have said here before), the only hope for professional soccer in Toronto is MLS. The Hartrell's are going to have to take a serious look at Oakville or Hamilton as their new home if they should decide to persevere. db Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 Well said David. Fully agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 The Hatrells have been stuck pandering too much. They've survived this long by acting small-time and for them that's ok. But barely surviving will never bring enthusiasm to the table. The current ownership lacks a "go big(ger) or go home" mentality which is needed to grow. The Lynx have been stagnant over the past 5 years. Same mediocre squads that don't make the playoffs, same good players that play for a year before leaving, same ****ty stadium situation at Centennial for 3 years, same "Girl Power Night" marketing mentality... I love the Lynx, but the Hatrells have shown that they're accountants and caretakers, not CEOs or visionaries like Saputo or Kerfoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosehead Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 The way you move forward is not by stubbing someone in the back who has spent millions on pro soccer in Canada and has an enviable record of sending Canadian players abroad. The CSA is just on the latest bandwagon of the mls because it is tired organization with no clear plan or vision. I doubt an Mls team will be a roaring success in Toronto playing in a blue coloured stadium with artificial turf, with seating miles away from the back net. These will be the excuses when the mls team fails. I fail to see whats so great about this real estate search engine league. I am sure the Impact and Whitecaps could be sucessful in it now without paying the 10 million dollar franchise fee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L.T. Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 FYI, Hartrell repeated his thoughts today on PrimeTime Sports (Sportsnet & FAN 590). As Silvio mentioned, must be a slow news day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 quote:Originally posted by L.T. FYI, Hartrell repeated his thoughts today on PrimeTime Sports (Sportsnet & FAN 590). As Silvio mentioned, must be a slow news day! Sounds like a happy and loyal soccer community to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 What DB said in spades. And Daniel. But just because the Hartrell's didn't have the coin to grow the Lynx dosen't mean they didn't stick their necks out (with what they had) trying to make football work in Toronto. Maybe they went about it in a sometimes goofy manner but so what? They put their money on the line when others didn't. And now, when Toronto finaly gets some meaningful attention from the CSA they're left out in the cold. Very nice. Thanks a lot, Pipe. No NT matchs for year after year and now when the CSA allows itself to be used as a pawn for a new Argo stadium the CSA crawls into bed with MLSE, the origional sinkers of New Varsity, to bring in a new team for Toronto and squeeze them out. Yeah. Thanks a lot again, Kevin. Hell, there are thousands in Winnipeg who wish we had our own Hartrell's to bitch about. 'cause God knows, the CSA won't brind "1st Division" USL soccer here. As far as I'm concearned they should let fly with both barrels. Long and hard to anyone who'll listen. They're getting jobbed big time and it's long overdue for them to show their teeth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJT Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Polish_LYNX_Fan HAHHAH this is sooo funny BRUNO hahah I cant wait for the opener we will chant MLS MLS MLS !!!! Hopefully the crowd joins in and pisses BRUNO off !!!! And you are Polish LYNX Fan? Frankly, I am dismayed by the reactions I've seen. Dismissing the team because a larger carrot is dangled in front of you? With the possibility of alliances changing so easily even amongst the "hardcore", what motivation is there for anyone to put their heart into Canadian club soccer? I am certainly no fan of the Hartrells, but I hate the way the Lynx have been treated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 Oh. One more thought since I'm on a roll tonight. One I've been playing with for some time now. Okay. Given the MLS salary cap I dought they'll draw a lot of internationals from overseas. And the ones they do will be (for the most part) definately "B" squad players right? I think on this most everyone will agree. So they're going to have rob some 1st Div players for certain. Bad for the Lynx. Added to the nice shiny new digs at York, maybe fatal. But if Toronto MLS is charging $30 a ticket, and the Lynx are offering a slightly more modest on-field product in admittedly way more modest surroundings at $15 a ticket isn't there at least the possibility that the Lynx can carry on same old-same old? I mean really. How many people will go to an MLS match just because of the MLS hype and what not but never ever go to an A-League event? A whole wack I bet. And how many football fans, on seeing both products will travel out to York to watch MLS over A-League/1st Division for more than twice the price? Guess geography will play a part too, but after the initial hoopla? I wonder. Anyway. With all the public coin going to the York project the City of TO should pony up for some improvements at a smaller civic park to-boot. Like for example Centennial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbailey62 Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Cheeta Oh. One more thought since I'm on a roll tonight. One I've been playing with for some time now. Okay. Given the MLS salary cap I dought they'll draw a lot of internationals from overseas. And the ones they do will be (for the most part) definately "B" squad players right? I think on this most everyone will agree. So they're going to have rob some 1st Div players for certain. Bad for the Lynx. Added to the nice shiny new digs at York, maybe fatal. But if Toronto MLS is charging $30 a ticket, and the Lynx are offering a slightly more modest on-field product in admittedly way more modest surroundings at $15 a ticket isn't there at least the possibility that the Lynx can carry on same old-same old? I mean really. How many people will go to an MLS match just because of the MLS hype and what not but never ever go to an A-League event? A whole wack I bet. And how many football fans, on seeing both products will travel out to York to watch MLS over A-League/1st Division for more than twice the price? Guess geography will play a part too, but after the initial hoopla? I wonder. Anyway. With all the public coin going to the York project the City of TO should pony up for some improvements at a smaller civic park to-boot. Like for example Centennial. I agree that the Canadians on the team will be, for the most part, those that can't make the better leagues in Europe but I think it is very possible that the Canadians playing in the lesser leagues will look at MLS as a viable alternative. In the end, IMO, we will have a blend of the best Canadian A-Leaguer's plus a small selection of Canadians who used to play in Norway and leagues of, more or less, that level. The top Canadians will stay with their European teams, of that there can be no question. Add a smattering of quality imports to the side and I believe that the "Toronto What'n'the'what'what's" can be a very competitive MLS side. As for it being bad for the Lynx, if the Lynx even bothering attempting to compete, they should have their heads examined. If they can work out some sort of farm team arrangement that allows for double headers in a "no rental fee/10% percentage of gate receipts" type of deal with the MLS side, perhaps they can eek out an existance. Otherwise, it's time to move on. Personally, I can't see it being economicaly feasible. The Hartrell's are going to have to accept the fact that they are not going to be able to compete in this new universe. They're not the Rhino's. They cannot legitimately aspire to be the MLS team in this city and knowing this, they are going to continue to criticize the MLS plan because it means the death of the Toronto Lynx as we now know them. Life's not always fair. Remember the Colorado Foxes? They were a reasonable APSL / A-League franchise before the MLS went to Denver. They moved, tried to survive, and failed. That's life in professional sports. If you can't make it on your own, in your market, you whither and most likely die off. I hope they move. At least that way they continue to exist. If they don't move, they have no future IF all this MLS talk should ever come to fruition. It's pro soccer's only chance in this city! ... and as for fixing up Centennial Park, that's up to the city of Toronto. They own it. Certainly no other level of governement is going to kick money into a small, city-owned park when they've just money into a brand new stadium. db Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Daniel The Hatrells have been stuck pandering too much. They've survived this long by acting small-time and for them that's ok. But barely surviving will never bring enthusiasm to the table. The current ownership lacks a "go big(ger) or go home" mentality which is needed to grow. The Lynx have been stagnant over the past 5 years. Same mediocre squads that don't make the playoffs, same good players that play for a year before leaving, same ****ty stadium situation at Centennial for 3 years, same "Girl Power Night" marketing mentality... I love the Lynx, but the Hatrells have shown that they're accountants and caretakers, not CEOs or visionaries like Saputo or Kerfoot. Couldn't have said it better.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 The interesting thing about this thread or debate is that: those who don't sympathize with the Hartrells are he same people who go to the games and are actually loyal supporters of the team. On the other hand, those who sympathize with the Hartrells or state that they are being "back-stabbed" are those who don't even live in the city and/or are not seen at any games. There were some other extremely loyal supporters of soccer in TO who used to be regulars at the games but have stopped comming out and haven't been seen anymore. Last year, On a good day, the supporters section might have consisted of 8-12 people whereas it use to be as large as 20-25. Yes the overall fan base is pretty consistantly at 2-3K but the way things are going, thats what it will stay at. At Centennial, that looks pretty full. Anyone who has ever had a chance to meet Bruno will leave impressed. The problem is not the owners personally. Its the kind of operation that they run. We need professional soccer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 The interesting thing about this thread or debate is that: those who don't sympathize with the Hartrells are he same people who go to the games and are actually loyal supporters of the team. On the other hand, those who sympathize with the Hartrells or state that they are being "back-stabbed" are those who don't even live in the city and/or are not seen at any games. There were some other extremely loyal supporters of soccer in TO who used to be regulars at the games but have stopped comming out and haven't been seen anymore. Last year, On a good day, the supporters section might have consisted of 8-12 people whereas it use to be as large as 20-25. Yes the overall fan base is pretty consistantly at 2-3K but the way things are going, thats what it will stay at. At Centennial, that looks pretty full. Anyone who has ever had a chance to meet Bruno will leave impressed. The problem is not the owners personally. Its the kind of operation that they run. We need professional soccer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polish_LYNX_Fan Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 DJT yes I'm a LYNX fan and I do love my LYNX. I just cant stand the owners they make us look more mickey mouse then we already are. Like Daniel said Girl Power Night What the F(U)ck is that. Sean mentioned a radio deal do something other than handing tickets away to local U10 soccer teams. They do everything possible to attract the "fan that will take their free ticekt and never show up again" and they treat the "hardcore" fans with ZERO respect!!!. so to end if off MLS MLS MLS MLS MLS !!!! I will still love the Lynx !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polish_LYNX_Fan Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 DJT yes I'm a LYNX fan and I do love my LYNX. I just cant stand the owners they make us look more mickey mouse then we already are. Like Daniel said Girl Power Night What the F(U)ck is that. Sean mentioned a radio deal do something other than handing tickets away to local U10 soccer teams. They do everything possible to attract the "fan that will take their free ticekt and never show up again" and they treat the "hardcore" fans with ZERO respect!!!. so to end if off MLS MLS MLS MLS MLS !!!! I will still love the Lynx !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Free kick We need professional soccer. Which you will get with an MLSE operated MLS franchise. MLS is Division One soccer in North America that pays its players a living wage as a minimum. USL Div I, as entertaining as it is, is Division Two soccer staffed by mostly semi-pro and amateur personnel despite it's pretentious name. How many A-League players can survive without another real job? I still very much support the USL and the Division Three regional leagues below them like the CPSL and PCSL, there is room for everybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJT Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 quote:Originally posted by dbailey62 As for it being bad for the Lynx, if the Lynx even bothering attempting to compete, they should have their heads examined. If they can work out some sort of farm team arrangement that allows for double headers in a "no rental fee/10% percentage of gate receipts" type of deal with the MLS side, perhaps they can eek out an existance. Otherwise, it's time to move on. Personally, I can't see it being economicaly feasible. The Hartrell's are going to have to accept the fact that they are not going to be able to compete in this new universe. They're not the Rhino's. They cannot legitimately aspire to be the MLS team in this city and knowing this, they are going to continue to criticize the MLS plan because it means the death of the Toronto Lynx as we now know them. Life's not always fair. Remember the Colorado Foxes? They were a reasonable APSL / A-League franchise before the MLS went to Denver. They moved, tried to survive, and failed. That's life in professional sports. If you can't make it on your own, in your market, you whither and most likely die off By that reasoning, the CSA should not be involved in bringing an MLS team to Toronto! Instead, the CSA has taken a side, in favour of MLS and against the Lynx, despite the fact that they said they would support the development of USL clubs. At the very least the CSA should have talked to the Lynx a long time ago, discussed their MLS plans, tried to work the Lynx into the equation. I mean, here you have some very, very unique people (Hartrells) who have sunk millions into Canadian soccer — and they are ignored. And I won't even get into the MLSE thing. This stinks. Stinks bad. But what else is new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJT Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Polish_LYNX_Fan DJT yes I'm a LYNX fan and I do love my LYNX. I just cant stand the owners they make us look more mickey mouse then we already are. Like Daniel said Girl Power Night What the F(U)ck is that. Sean mentioned a radio deal do something other than handing tickets away to local U10 soccer teams. They do everything possible to attract the "fan that will take their free ticekt and never show up again" and they treat the "hardcore" fans with ZERO respect!!!. so to end if off MLS MLS MLS MLS MLS !!!! I will still love the Lynx !!! I completely agree with your complaints. But the solution to that is not an MLS team, because you know an MLS team will spell the end of the Lynx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 I don't want anybody to get me wrong. I've come to accept that MLS is coming to Canada, for good or bad, and Toronto may just be the thin edge of the wedge. Hopefully this means MLS evolves into something more like a professional football league but that's a whole other debate. I just feel that the Hartrells have been, intentionaly or otherwise, ass raped by the CSL in that organizations verbal support of MLS in Toronto. And as a consiquence, the Hartrels are well within their rights to bad mouth the whole idea for as long and as loud as they like. Well it help them? Doughtful. But they're still allowed to vent and highlight the holes in this supposed venture. Once the good ship MLS Toronto is launched it'll all be forgotten but Geez, give them their 15 minutes. Had the CSL in any way, shape, or form tried to help the Lynx become a success in Canada's most populace city and richest province (you know, for the good of the game) then I'd tell them to shut their gob and move over, but I don't think that's been the case. Other's will know better, but I figure I'm pretty close to the mark. And I know it's wishfull thinking that the Lynx can survive in a city the size of Toronto, even as a 2nd level product, but I hope it's possible. After all on and off teams like West Ham and Fulham have. Survived playing 2nd fiddle to bigger local clubs that is. Maybe you've heard of them? Couple o' Canucks are playing or played at their grounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polish_LYNX_Fan Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 quote:Originally posted by DJT I completely agree with your complaints. But the solution to that is not an MLS team, because you know an MLS team will spell the end of the Lynx. DJT I didnt know you were so concered about the lynx seeing how you never show up to watch them with us. Once the MLS comes we will still have the U-SECTOR so as long as we get to cheer for a soccer team its all good. LYNX no LYNX soccer no soccer U-SECTOR forever !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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