Andrew W Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 quote:Originally posted by canso I want to know if you actually know something that we don't. Just a good judge of character. Have you ever met the man? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beaver Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 quote:Originally posted by canso I want to know if you actually know something that we don't. Just a good judge of character. right--gotcha loud and clear. figured maybe you'd played soccer for him once and he cut you from his team and now you can't see anything but red when you hear his name. you sort of come across as a spurned lover at times. Very odd. Thanks for the honesty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soju Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 canso what's your opinion of Holger? Just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canso Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 you sort of come across as a spurned lover at times. Again, a conversation with homoerotic overtones! Leave it alone Beav. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canso Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 Have you ever met the man? I evaluate thousands of people on a daily basis without meeting them face to face. I work as a recruitment advisor for global companies, and critical evaluations of people I have never shaken hands with are all part of the job! Here is an analogy of the two managers and their management styles, if they were white collar office managers and the MNT was a neglected, failing department that no one else wanted. Frank Yallop: Shown impressive upward mobility in his career to date, is very ambitious . Personable and engaging, is an excellent relationship manager and effectively builds alliances. Since moving into this role however, he has taken a rather off the cuff approach to accountability and seems to have created dissension in the ranks by playing favorites within his team. He has also been unable, or unwilling, to communicate clearly his reasoning regarding critical decisions that have affected the department negatively. Frank remains focussed on his long term goals, but needs some short term success to ensure he has full support going forward. May be overmatched in this role, but the client has no real alternative at this point in time. Recommendation: A second evaluation in six months time, with an option to proceed with a replacement should reports continue to be negative. Holger Osieck: Has done some serious damage to his reputation, having been pushed out of one low-profile job and pushed back from another high-profile job. A stern disciplinarian who has some serious issues with regards to building a rapport with his team. He speaks authoritatively, is strong-willed and decisive, but needs to learn diplomacy and develop his interpersonal skills. With the right assistant to operate as a buffer between Holger and his employees, he could be very effective in a challenging role such as this one. Recommendation: Unfortunate to be dismissed after some initial success with the program. Has all the attributes and skills needed to succeed, and was ultimately a victim of politics and deserved better. Not viable for a return to the client. Needs a good agent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 Are these "global companies" in the business of kiddie porn or African diamond mining? No reputable organization would attempt to evaluate thousands of candidates on a daily basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canso Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 No reputable organization would attempt to evaluate thousands of candidates on a daily basis. That would be silly. Evaluating daily, thousands being an accumulative number over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beaver Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 Damn, Canso, I KNEW you weren't a dumbass. Very clever "client assessment." Still, based on your assessment and conclusion, one has to wonder why you aren't actually giving Yallop the full 6 months to prove himself. I could understand that if during that period he was showing few, if any, signs of improvement, but I don't believe we have evidence of this at all. We won a soccer game with a gritty, but unattractive performance, but other than than what do we have on Yallop? As for the "spurned lover" matter: I could give a shi.t about the "homoerotic"; that wasn't my point at all. The point was to question your motivation in constantly slamming Yallop on conjecture and thin evidence. And anyways, there isn't anything in the name "Canso" that suggests you are a male anyways. So, how does a fellow--or gal--such as yourself land such an impressive sounding job? Do you have a psych degree? Or some crazy assed human resources degree? Maybe the CSA should hire you as a consultant. Yallop's days would be numbered, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canso Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 Maybe the CSA should hire you as a consultant. Maybe, but only after we settle the wrongful dismissal charges for Mr Osieck, Pipe is run out of town on a pitchfork and Dale Mitchell is running the national team...with Yallop replacing Sean Wheelock as the Impress the MLS correspondent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beaver Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 quote:Originally posted by canso Maybe the CSA should hire you as a consultant. Maybe, but only after we settle the wrongful dismissal charges for Mr Osieck, Pipe is run out of town on a pitchfork and Dale Mitchell is running the national team...with Yallop replacing Sean Wheelock as the Impress the MLS correspondent! Sure, I'll support you on getting rid of Pipe, and I think Mitchell will some day make a great National coach, but as for the charge of "wrongful dismissal", give me a break. I'll just assume you are tossing this one out "tongue-in-cheek." And, if we are going to move Yallop anywhere useful, certainly his alliance-building prowess and long term vision could be used well at the CSA, don't you think? Can Pipe and hire Yallop in his place. That would be very interesting. Then mister Mister Mitchell can take over as coach. In 3 years, something along these lines will happen. Mark my words.[8D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juaninho Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 quote:Originally posted by canso Have you ever met the man? I evaluate thousands of people on a daily basis without meeting them face to face. ...must be a Kantian then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beaver Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 Yes, Kant taken to one extreme. Go too far, and you end up with the Nazis. (To be clear: I am not saying Canso is in any way a Nazi or even Nazi-like.) Is that part of the problem here, a Kantian idealism on Canso's part? Or is he simply seeing more clearly than those of us still willing to give Yallop a proper chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 quote:Originally posted by canso encouraging Radz to consider coaching in Canada What is happening here is Yallop trying to surround himself with nodding yes men who are not as smart as he is -Watson, DOHnstad, Radzinski- nice guys, but, you know... Yallop has insecurities that are affecting his decision-making ability. His fear of player power led him to change captains and shun Brennan, Bircham, Aguiar and now Stalteri. His fear of confrontation, stemming from his lack of height most likely, means that he will continue to dodge any media event where he might be asked to explain why he does what he does and continue to take a passive-aggressive stance against the world. His insecurity about his intellect means that he cannot suffer to have people around who might disagree with him. Are we just going to wait till he asks Mitchell to resign and replaces him with Radz, suspends Iain Hume from the team for having a bad haircut, tells Attiba to play in goal, gives DeRo the hardhat... The revolution will not be televised. I agree with you on this, Yallop is insecure. This is why he calls up kids who are not yet ready, and does not want to deal with certain veterans. This is fine as a long term personal project, but lousy for Canadian results. If the US can play way over their heads based on individual skills, with the team above their talent in terms of results, why are we below the level of our talent in terms of results? Coaching has to be a key reason. If Yallop is not secure enough to learn how to deal with veterans and get the most of their talents and experience, he should not be our coach. Trust is just a cop out, and a sign of a lack of maturity and ability as a person designing the team and making it work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S. I agree with you on this, Yallop is insecure. This is why he calls up kids who are not yet ready, and does not want to deal with certain veterans. This is fine as a long term personal project, but lousy for Canadian results. If the US can play way over their heads based on individual skills, with the team above their talent in terms of results, why are we below the level of our talent in terms of results? Coaching has to be a key reason. If Yallop is not secure enough to learn how to deal with veterans and get the most of their talents and experience, he should not be our coach. Trust is just a cop out, and a sign of a lack of maturity and ability as a person designing the team and making it work. Too much red wine & coke to kill the pain last night? A few other random questions for anyone who still cares about this topic: 1) Is Radz now one of Yallop's drinking buddies/yes men? 2) Other than Peters v. Brennan, who else is included in this rookies v. veterans debate? 3)Who expected Yallop to be a great manager? 4) Who expects Canada will ever be able to attract a great external (ie. foreign) candidate for manager? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canso Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 is he simply seeing more clearly Yallop has already failed miserably according the standard metrics of judging a manager: tactics, selection and motivation. By judging his standards of integrity, honesty and ethics, his mental capability and weakness and his interpersonal skills, I think we have taken a bold new step in how we define the term manager. We are through the looking glass here people! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beaver Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canso Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 deliberately NOT make alliances with veteran players It is more a case of making alliances with the wrong group of veteran players! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canso Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 I am trying to keep away from checking the scores, gonna watch the games later! But here are the bones of contention I have with Yallop, one by one: Jason DeVos, a man of great honour and integrity who has shed his blood for Canada and deserves a frickin memorial, is not being respected. Discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 quote:Originally posted by canso Jason DeVos, a man of great honour and integrity who has shed his blood for Canada and deserves a frickin memorial, is not being respected. Canso, what if, and I know this may be sacrilege to many here, but what if the change of captaincy was a welcome relief for JDV? That thought is built on as much heresay and conjecture as what you believe. [off topic w.ankery] The thing is, when trying to evaluate what a player is feeling, we often project our own feelings on to them as in, how would I feel if I were in their position. But this isn't always accurate because most of us would give our left nut to just be paid to play soccer. It's all well in good to think "what would I do if..." but this rarely is an accurate picture. [/off topic w.ankery] Man, I should've taken psychology in university. That would've been fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juaninho Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 quote:Originally posted by The Beaver Is that part of the problem here, a Kantian idealism on Canso's part? Or is he simply seeing more clearly than those of us still willing to give Yallop a proper chance? Clarity depends upon what it is constrained by. If the field of view is narrow, then the clarity is good. Broaden the horizon, and then clarity begins to diminish, but a host of new problems get introduced. I don't think a 'standard metric of judging a manager' can be as smoothly mapped out onto a professional sports team, specifically one that: a. plays inconstantly. b. the coach, Yallop in this case, does not have the ability to choose whomever he wishes to play like he could at the club level -both nationality and availability constrain his choices. c. does not have adequate resources to assess the competition, mainly because the competition is somewhat in the same predicament of inconstancy and fluid rosters. d. evaluation of Yallop's performance is not as easy due to the fact that: i. Canada's past performances pre-condition any evaluation to be done according to incremental progress rather then a matter of success or failure, or rather meeting 'bottom-line target expectations'. ii. in sport success is a relative matter. Would you rather have Yallop run-up an impressive list of wins at the expense of the Burkina Fasos of the world, or would you rather have Canada try to 'rise to the occasion', and by doing so, risk blemishing that stellar record? If, and most would agree that latter course should be taken, Yallop chooses to rise to the occasion, he has no option BUT to accept a degree of failure, BUT with the caveat that the failure itself will hopefully be a learning experience not just for himself, but for the team as a whole. As for Yallop being insecure because of the fact that he has chosen to avoid 'confrontational' players and maybe due to 'his lack of height' is well, a bit creative. Should we then hire someone who is over 6 foot 3 and allows his players to do what they want, whenever they want? Let's hire Jan Koller then! I understand the need for having the best talent available, but if the goal of the coach is to get a motley association of players to gel into a cohesive whole and buy into his coaching philosophy, would it make sense to bring in players who would disrupt that? Listen, canso, it's not like Brennan, Aguiar, Bircham, and Stalteri are the equivalent of Real Madrid galacticos. Besides, does this argument of 'fearing confrontation' still hold if Brennan has played for Canada post-WCQ? And do we know exactly why Stalteri wasn't contacted to play in Protugal? Yallop deserves a fair chance canso, despite the fact that your 'business management metric' says otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canso Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 Wow! There are some big brains on this forum. If I want to pretend to be one of them, guess I will have to stop the Fire Yallop, Fire Yallop baiting. Hmmmm... Eee-manuel Kant was a real piss-ant who was ve-ry rare-ly stable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soju Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 Fire canso Fire canso. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhat Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 quote:Originally posted by juaninho Yallop deserves a fair chance canso, despite the fact that your 'business management metric' says otherwise. I agree. Yallop was hired when? 2004. Despite some questionable decisions, we cannot honestly say he had ample time. The truth is, Canada's soccer problems are deeper than the quality of our coaching and IT WILL TAKE SOME TIME before we will have any type of consistant success with our MNT. As for using some "business management metric" to judge our coach, I'm sure it's for entertainment purposes only in this forum. In reality, applying the same metrics to Aguiar, Radzinski, Stalteri, Hume, or Brennan, would offer ample reasons to exclude them from the team at this stage. The business dynamics, and I understood and have experience in this large area, cannot apply to start-ups and new entities, nor can it apply to our MNT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canso Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 Well it was an effective campaign, and my work here is done. I solemnly swear not to instigate any more Fire Yallop discussions, until six months from now. But somebody has to get fired!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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