redhat Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 quote:Originally posted by canso Hume - got subbed out for CORAZZIN! That's gotta hurt! That covers all of our best players...but DeRo and the A-leaguers are still on board for the Impress the MLS project! You made some case, then you lost it with the Corazzin thing again. You don't like Yallop and you keep harping on the WCQ thing again. Tell me something new... and move on. All these lads have paid their dues for Canada and deserve better respect. That includes these so-called A-Leaguers like Grande, de Rosario, Gervais, and Sutton. [}] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canso Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 But wouldn't you be upset if you got subbed out for Corazzin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canso Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 But wouldn't you be upset if you got subbed out for Corazzin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 Upset, yes. To the extent you are talking about or suggesting, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Oranje Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 Your assumption is that Bremen would not release him. I can't imagine that they would release their German internationals for a friendly and then not allow a foreign player. Re the Brazil and England reference, it was regard to the uproar that would be created in those countries if those players were not called. There has been no comment from FY that Bremen would not allow Stalteri to go. My point was that Stalteri is our best player at the moment, the travel is not an issue, and there are no scheduling conflicts. So, what's the problem? I am not slagging FY, I am simply asking why not Stalteri? Are we penalizing him for the bottle throwing incident (would that really be a penalty?)? Why is de Guzman just "probably" rather than definitely? Why is making the plan for the national team public so hard? These are honest questions and my point is that these would be questions that would be asked with great regularity in a serious soccer nation. But then maybe the fans in Canada don't deserve this kind of proprietary information (being facetious)because we are not England or Brazil? As a Canadian fan, I would like to know these answers. quote:Originally posted by SeanKeay To be honest, Stalteri deserves that for that kinda stunt. He put the team in a giant hole by not being able to play. BUT - I think that whole list is bull anyways, your just trying to cause ****... To be honest, we cant put ourselves in the same group as an england or a brazil... because they dont get crapped on when they call up there stars. We always get crapped on, and its because larry doesnt have star power to force the club to let him go. Where as if barca was to tell Ronnie that he cant go play for Brazil... OOOO man, Ronnie would ask to be sold and barca wouldnt want that. Anways, believe what you want, but its definatly not another holger situation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beaver Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 quote:Originally posted by canso Here's a partial list of players who have a problem with Yallop: DeVos - lost the armband, lost his last chance to play in the World Cup. Aguiar - recalled, then rejected, recalled, then rejected. Brennan - lost his place, then criticized for asking to keep his place. Nsaliwa - snubbed, then criticized for playing poorly for the olympic team, then snubbed some more Stalteri - threw a tantrum, now being shut out. Hume - got subbed out for CORAZZIN! That's gotta hurt! That covers all of our best players...but DeRo and the A-leaguers are still on board for the Impress the MLS project! Wow, how do we take this? I was under the impression that only the Beast resorted to such baiting. Or have I missed something here? I'm looking for the ";)"s but I can't seem to find them. please help me: I can be daft when it comes to this sort of irony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beaver Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 Holy ****, the rumours and speculation and silly assumptions around here are starting to get juvenile. The point was made, sort of, that without a rigorous soccer media in this country--with reporters asking incisive, informed and tough questions--we as fans are not getting the full picture, and as a result are jumping to conjecture and fancy. I seriously doubt Yallop is hiding behind this lack of tough soccer media; he simply isn't being probed (keep it in your pants, fellas) as thoroughly as we'd like. Yes, I'd love to know why Stalteri will likely not play vs. Portugal, but to assume it has anything to do with his relationship with Yallop, or that Yallop is banning him for events that occured during World Cup qualifying is absurd and clearly not the entire picture. Mind you, in some cases, I think a coach must be very tight-lipped about certain things, and should be fully aware he will face criticism for doing so. Sometimes a coach has to make those sorts of decisions, though my gut tells me this is NOT what is going on with Yallop in this instance. All of this is further proof that we need a few Voyageur reporters to hold regular interviews with Yallop, Mitchell, and other key soccer personalities in the Canadian scene, including those involved with our A-league sides etc. Who else knows how to ask the important and tough questions? Who else gives a proper damn? I'll gladly offer my writing and editing services. I know we have other media types here, too. I'm sure Yallop would be amenable to interviews from time to time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chet Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 Even though this is Portugal and therefore a high-profile match, it's still a friendly. The only real goal at this point is for Yallop to get a look at his players and figure out who his best guys are going to be three years from now. Stalteri is one player Yallop can take for granted; there's really no reason to invite him to this camp. It's the younger players and the ones that still have to prove their value who need the playing time. I suspect Radzinski is only getting called because he expressly asked to come. I believe Radz said in a previous interview that he wants to become involved in Canadian soccer as a coach once his playing career is over. I see his continued involvement as part of a gradual move into a coaching career, following in the footsteps of Lenarduzzi, Yallop, Mitchell, Bridge, Dasovic, Watson. A positive trend, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Oranje Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 I am only asking the questions. The fans really need to be kept in the loop so the speculation does not get out of hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beaver Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Canuck Oranje I am only asking the questions. The fans really need to be kept in the loop so the speculation does not get out of hand. Absolutely! I agree all the way. Now, let's see if we can't get an interview with Yallop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Chet Even though this is Portugal and therefore a high-profile match, it's still a friendly. The only real goal at this point is for Yallop to get a look at his players and figure out who his best guys are going to be three years from now. Hi, I would have to disagree a little with what you said. I think that a game of this profile is more than just a 'friendly'. I think it is important that we do well in matches against the likes of Portugal. If we do well it raises our stock and makes us more attractive to other larger soccer nations. It also puts our players on display for European clubs. If we put on a display such as the one witnessed against NI, then I doubt anyone of Portugal's stature will be ringing us up for a friendly, much the same if Belize were to call us up for an exhibition match - not much to be learned by playing them again. I am sure that Portugal wants a challenge out of this and not just a one sided shooting match. Hopefully we can give them one, but that requires bringing our best players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canso Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 "let's see if we can't get an interview with Yallop." When you say we, what does that mean? We as in the voyaguers, the only credible media for soccer coverage in Canada? If so, that's a damn fine idea. I've got a couple questions I'd like to ask! Or is that the royal we, as in "The Beaver and I"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 I would like to voice my support for the Beaver to contact Yallop and ask whichever questions he sees fit. Any good questions would be helpful. Also, I think Paddy's comments regarding Portugal are spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 Echo that. Yallop's shown a fondness for using NT matchs to promote players he feels are on the cusp (as it were). Would like see if he feels Nsaliwa could use a little NT promotion by giving the man a go against Portugal. We may just need a WHOLE lot of speed down that right side. In both directions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beaver Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 quote:Originally posted by canso "let's see if we can't get an interview with Yallop." When you say we, what does that mean? We as in the voyaguers, the only credible media for soccer coverage in Canada? If so, that's a damn fine idea. I've got a couple questions I'd like to ask! Or is that the royal we, as in "The Beaver and I"? Sorry, to clarify: Yes, if we did more formal reporting on this site--with fact checking, editing, and editorial that is clearly editorial--then I would say without a doubt that we would likely be the best, most credible media for soccer coverage in Canada. Yes "we"--as a Voyageur soccer news site, not this forum--would be a damn fine source for Canadian soccer news. I am not into the royal 'we.' I loathe the Monarchy. Get the freakin Queen off my currency! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelownaguy Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 man, I am sitting back here just laughing at the Paranoia and Speculation going on from this one article where many are assuming because a player isn't there it has to be because of a big rift with the coach. Every player on our national team must just have nothing but pure hatred for Yallop!!! Because at one time or another he subbed them out or didn't call them for a game.... That would never happen with another country's national soccer team... Off with his head!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Oranje Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 to say that media in other countries would not engage in rampant speculation is naive. 1. Wanderley Luxemburgo (now coach of Real Madrid) was forced out of the Brazil job in part over his player selection. 2. Guus Hiddink was criticized for his player selection by fans and the media in Korea prior to the Korean success at WC2002. 3. British Tabliods will speculate about almost anything to do with Football. Player selection at the national team level is always a topic of speculation. The Italian Sports media is the same. 3. Dutch national team coaches have been scrutinized over and over again because of their relationship with the players. On the contrary, Canadian National Team coaches and the CSA are not scrutinized anywhere near as closely as in other countries. In many respects, we speculate far more in Canada over hockey. In fact, the media is still speculating as to what happen in contract negotiations and has been over a week now since the cancellation of the season. My point again is this. If the MNT wants to be taken seriously, those around it need to be as open and as clear as possible. It needs to welcome debate rather than hide from it. So far, I am seeing a tendency to shy away from openness with the media and the media is not pressing hard enough for the answers that would be expected in every serious soccer nation around the world. quote:Originally posted by kelownaguy man, I am sitting back here just laughing at the Paranoia and Speculation going on from this one article where many are assuming because a player isn't there it has to be because of a big rift with the coach. Every player on our national team must just have nothing but pure hatred for Yallop!!! Because at one time or another he subbed them out or didn't call them for a game.... That would never happen with another country's national soccer team... Off with his head!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beaver Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Canuck Oranje to say that media in other countries would not engage in rampant speculation is naive. 1. Wanderley Luxemburgo (now coach of Real Madrid) was forced out of the Brazil job in part over his player selection. 2. Guus Hiddink was criticized for his player selection by fans and the media in Korea prior to the Korean success at WC2002. 3. British Tabliods will speculate about almost anything to do with Football. Player selection at the national team level is always a topic of speculation. The Italian Sports media is the same. 3. Dutch national team coaches have been scrutinized over and over again because of their relationship with the players. On the contrary, Canadian National Team coaches and the CSA are not scrutinized anywhere near as closely as in other countries. In many respects, we speculate far more in Canada over hockey. In fact, the media is still speculating as to what happen in contract negotiations and has been over a week now since the cancellation of the season. My point again is this. If the MNT wants to be taken seriously, those around it need to be as open and as clear as possible. It needs to welcome debate rather than hide from it. So far, I am seeing a tendency to shy away from openness with the media and the media is not pressing hard enough for the answers that would be expected in every serious soccer nation around the world. Canuck O', I get your point and essentially agree, but your first 2 points carry little weight in that a coach SHOULD be questioned on player selection. The issue that is being raised by KelownaGuy and others is that we are claiming that Yallop has pissed off all these various players on the weakest of speculation. Point #3--since when do the British tabloids carry any credible weight? It is like expecting to find some hard science in the bloody Enquirer. And regarding Dutch coaches, we KNOW from very real evidence that there has been real problems in player management. We don't know ****e about what is happening with Yallop and the players. All we've got is conjecture. Which leads to your core point--that we need our sports media to ask tougher and more comprehensive and better informed questions. But why would they? They simply do not give a rat's ass. I agree with you entirely on this point. It is bloody frustrating. Perhaps Yallop should hire a PR person to handle this sort of stuff--full disclosure to the media--but considering the puny audience (just us Voyageurs--all 100 of us) how could he justify such an outlay of cash, especially when it would be on the backs of the CSA and other programs they run? Either we must step up and fill the soccer media-gap, or put pressure on existing media to do so. My gut tells me that we can't expect anything from the existing media, and I get the impression that too many of us feel too busy to get anything going here. Understandable: this is a fan forum, not an official agency or private business. Still, I think we could do some pretty cool stuff. (And if the Can. Council programs that funds web-based zines is still around, we could find some funding to pay small writing and editing fees, and run the site etc.) I suppose all of this is contingent on somebody spearheading it. Worth some thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canso Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 For once I agree with you Beaver! Without a media watchdog all kinds of terrible things are allowed to happen to the MNT that should not be permitted, things that are unheard of in any other country in the world, and indeed, most other sports in Canada. I'm thinking with some accreditation a member of this forum could easily be able to take a stand and ask the questions that need to be answered. That person might even be you Beaver. I'm not taking the piss either, I mean, who better? Your watchdog instincts have been well-proven in terms of spotting facile arguments and political incorrectness, your erudition and eloquence hath no peer and, as long as you can curb that tendency to be condescending, I know you'd do a great job keeping the rest of us informed. So how about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beaver Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 quote:Originally posted by canso For once I agree with you Beaver! Without a media watchdog all kinds of terrible things are allowed to happen to the MNT that should not be permitted, things that are unheard of in any other country in the world, and indeed, most other sports in Canada. I'm thinking with some accreditation a member of this forum could easily be able to take a stand and ask the questions that need to be answered. That person might even be you Beaver. I'm not taking the piss either, I mean, who better? Your watchdog instincts have been well-proven in terms of spotting facile arguments and political incorrectness, your erudition and eloquence hath no peer and, as long as you can curb that tendency to be condescending, I know you'd do a great job keeping the rest of us informed. So how about it? I'd love to interview Yallop, but my skills would be better used as a managing editor and sometimes writer. I'd rather "hire" somebody else to do the interview, making sure they handle Yallop with the respect he deserves (we'll want to do more interviews) but willing to ask the sorts of questions that shed light on the things Canadian soccer fans really want answered. I am thinking that a soccer web-zine would be the best medium for this, and many other articles. It would be a lot of work, but not impossible with a little imagination. Yes, even when you are agreeing with me you've got to get a happy little dig in, eh? You are clearly a very bright individual (seriously): can you stop with the "political correctness" jabs for once and for all? It's getting very tired. I'd rather we moved on. We are wasting our energy on petty ****.e. Plus, I'd hoped that if we did get some sort of webzine going, that you'd consider writing some articles for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 quote:Originally posted by The Beaver I'd rather "hire" somebody else to do the interview, making sure they handle Yallop with the respect he deserves (we'll want to do more interviews) I think this would be imperative in this endeavour. Whether you like his decisions or not, if you expect serious answers he will have to be treated with respect. I think beachesl did a good job of this at the press conference he covered last summer. That was a good start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beaver Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 quote:Originally posted by El Hombre I think this would be imperative in this endeavour. Whether you like his decisions or not, if you expect serious answers he will have to be treated with respect. I think beachesl did a good job of this at the press conference he covered last summer. That was a good start. I agree entirely and already had Beaches in mind for something like this. (Perhaps there are others, too). I am thinking of a professional set up, and part of being professional is showing respect, of course. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canso Posted February 25, 2005 Share Posted February 25, 2005 "I'd hoped that if we did get some sort of webzine going, that you'd consider writing some articles for it." From animosity comes respect! I'd be honoured to work with you Beav, and I'm not nearly as rabid as I pretend to be! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadiankick97 Posted February 26, 2005 Share Posted February 26, 2005 If Stalteri and Yallop are in arguments (which I doubt) I don't think Yallop would even have mentioned his name on the program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted February 26, 2005 Share Posted February 26, 2005 And in the WFP article he specifically mentions Stalteri and DeGuzman as the vets who will be around for the next WCQ as well. I think a whole lot of this alleged animosity between Yallop and players is well overblown. That is not to say that Aguiar had a falling out, and that Brennan and Nsaliwa were not disappointed about being left off the squad. There is a difference between animosity and disappointment and most people are grown up enough to live with disappointment w/o throwing a hissy fit. As for DeVos, it would strike me as odd that given his age and club status that he would do anything other than retire from International football...good lord, dozens of European stars have done exactly the same thing. He is in line for a premiership "payoff" at the latter stages of a fine club career why jepordize that to play in a Cup tournament he has already won, or in a series of meaningless friendlies. He has stated he'd come back to play for Frank if there was a young centre half who Frank felt would benefit from playing beside DeVos for a few games. Sounds like the thoughoughly professional warrior and leader that I believe him to be. Yeah, I think Frank made a mistake not haveing him as Captain, and undoubtedly DeVos was disappointned not to be, but unless he is a big ****ing baby, that is hardly gonna be cause for him to have a hissy fit. Any of you think DeVos is a big ****ing baby? I don't. Obviously, until Nsaliwa is back in the fold, one can speculate there. And don't think that this is some sort of tacit approval of Frank's selections, because I think that he has made major mistakes during WCQ in this regard, but I refuse to believe that Stalteri, DeVos, et. al. are not grown ups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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