Ricardo06 Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 I don't know much about the NAIA league but that is mainly based in the US. I know that Simon Fraser University in Vancouver takes part in it. Also, I can assume that NCAA div 1 is best but I was watching some NCAA div 1 schools ranked lower then top 50 playing and wasn't too impressive. Can CIS or NAIA be better then NCAA below top 50 skewls? Is CIS better then NAIA or vice versa? What are the pros/cons of each league? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 The top half of the CIS would be very competitive against NCAA Div 2 as well as the schools below the top 50 in NCAA Div 1. Indeed some Canadian University teams do very well against highly regarded NCAA Div 1 teams on occasion. Much the same applies to the NAIA which typically comprises much smaller schools than the typical NCAA school. The top 25 NAIA clubs would compete very well against most NCAA and CIS teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 There is an excellent article on this very subject in the latest issue (#51) of World Football Pages http://www.worldfootballpages.com/. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo06 Posted February 20, 2005 Author Share Posted February 20, 2005 I can't access the article, maybe you could copy and paste. As for Sigma, I would think div 3 would be a breeze for most NCAA and NAIA teams. What kind of level does Simon Fraser offer compared to top NAIA and NCAA teams? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJT Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Ricardo06 I can't access the article, maybe you could copy and paste. You have to buy the paper. We can't post entire articles here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Ricardo06 I can't access the article, maybe you could copy and paste. As for Sigma, I would think div 3 would be a breeze for most NCAA and NAIA teams. What kind of level does Simon Fraser offer compared to top NAIA and NCAA teams? Posting the article here would be a serious breach of WFP's copyright - sorry. As for SFU, on a good day SFU could beat any NCAA team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T5 Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 Richard: "As for SFU, on a good day SFU could beat any NCAA team." Be serious; any top 20 NCAA division one team would eat them up on a bad day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brun06 Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 I understand SFU is ranked #10 in the NAIA league, I could assume its level of play may be the same as the #30-50 NCAA teams. Many of the top 20 NCAA teams serve somewhat a semi-pro level where numerous of their elite players are feeded into the MLS. I don't see the same transition with SFU players even though they are Canadian. However, on Canadian soil I think we could say SFU provides the best opportunities and experience providing not only a good level of play but also exposure to a greater market such as the NAIA league which is american based. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC3 Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 I was reading through the posts and was interested in this discussion about CIS vs NCAA vs NAIA. I play in the CIS for TWU. We have been ranked #2 in Canada for the past two years and have won the Canada West (UBC, UVIC, UA, ect) league title two years in a row. Part of our spring season is that we play NCAA schools and NAIA schools. Last year we played UW and lost 2-1 in a close game. We also played OSU and tied 1-1. These were the biggest of our NCAA Div 1 games last year as both of these teams were in the top 16 in the US. We also play teams likes of Western Washington, SPU and SFU. We normally beat WWU and SPU and our games vs SFU have always been close but recently we have been coming out with the wins. This past fall we played OSU again and again tied them. We also played Concordia (NAIA) and won. Now I say this to let you know how a CIS team has done in the past vs NCAA and NAIA teams. Our spring season this year is packed with competition from down south. We have upcoming games vs WWU (mar.8), OSU (mar.12), UW(mar.12), SFU(mar.15), U of Portland (April) along with a local game vs. the Whitecaps (April 9). In my opinion, there are 15-20 teams in the CIS who would have no problem competing and being successful vs. Div 1 teams. The top 10 CIS schools could easily battle with the top 10 Div 1 schools. I dont know as much about NAIA, but from past results, we (TWU)have been successful vs NAIA teams that come up here and play. I hope this gives some insight into how teams in the CIS compete. CIS soccer is a good product and very comparable to Div 1 soccer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T5 Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Sigma OSU and UW were in the top 25 last year? I personally think the NCAA D1 product is better. However, I must admit I have only seen one CIS game and that was the championship game in Ottawa a few years back. I just can't see how the top 10 schools in Canada could 'battle' with the top 10 schools in the US. Take McGill for example. They won the silver last year and tied Sacred Heart 2-2, lost to Yale 3-1 and Brown 4-0. Not necessarily NCAA D1 powers. You'd have to be a Canadain to think our university teams could compete against the likes of Maryland, UCLA, and the Indiana types of Div. 1 universities. They have the best coaches (full-time), the best facilities, and the best players from the US, Europe and Africa on their teams. They don't even bother recruiting Canadains other than for some of the women's teams. Overall, our players and coaches are way behind the US in all aspects of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 You do realise the NCAA has strict limits on how many 'foreigners' a school can sign? The NAIA on the other hand has no such limits. You really should spring for a copy of issue 51 (current issue) of World Football Pages (subscription includes online access to the whole publication). There is a really well written and knowledgable piece on just this subject that does not support your position T5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC3 Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 In regards to sigma's comment about McGill's results, TWU has also gone out East and played McGill, U of T, U Montreal, Western, Carleton, Queens, and Concordia over the last two preseasons. We have played a total of 12 games out east and are 11-0-1 vs teams from the East. Using a team like McGill who didnt finish second last year, to all CIS schools is unfair as they are a middle of the pack team whose results vs D1 schools do not reflect how CIS schools would do. The CIS is the best out west. If teams like us(TWU) or UVIC, UBC, U of A played the top D1 schools, you would see close results. Its true that D1 schools have good programs, but its is also true that CIS schools also have good programs with great full time coaching staffs, facilities and recruiting. The CIS may not be as established as the NCAA but when looking at our school and the progress we have made, I think I am realistic in my assumptions about the top teams in the CIS in considering our ability and skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EZmac Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 I've often wondered this myself. I feel that the top teams in Canada (CIS) could compete, but not necessarily win with the top level schools in Div.1. On a good day they could win, but on average they would probably come out below. Part of the reason is that because there are so many schools in the US the talent gets spread out so that the skill levels of each team in Canada and the US is about the same. However where there are 10 teams in Canda there are 50+ schools with talent in the US. I know the UofA played div.1 and 2 schools last year on a post season trip to Florida they tied a high ranking division 2 school (Nova Southeastern) 1-1 and beat about #14 ranked Div.1 school (Florida International U) 3-2. This week the UofA are in San Fransisco and will be playing two div.1 schools (San Fransico U, CAL-Berkeley) and a division 2 school (Sonoma State). I'll post results later. Also TWU may have finished first in Canada West regular season play the past two seasons, but they have yet to win a Canada West title and advance to nationals. However with the change in format to next years national 2 teams from Canada West will now advance. Better luck next year spartans! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 I believe the CIS has lifted its prohibition of athletic scholarships in recent years? This was one advantage that NAIA schools like SFU enjoyed previously from a recruiting standpoint that they perhaps no longer enjoy. Also, I do not believe any Canadian universities relax their academic standards to accomodate athletes, unlike many US schools. Certainly SFU does not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T5 Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Richard: You'll never convince me. Top Division 1 US university's can have the "Pick of the World" at the same price of picking a Canadian. "Out of State" is "Out of State". Your Comment: "Also, I do not believe any Canadian universities relax their academic standards to accomodate athletes, unlike many US schools." What's that got to do with this issue unless you are trying to prove my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 quote:Originally posted by T5 Your Comment: "Also, I do not believe any Canadian universities relax their academic standards to accomodate athletes, unlike many US schools." What's that got to do with this issue unless you are trying to prove my point. Nothing. I was adding to the discussion. I'm surprised you needed that to be explained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo06 Posted February 23, 2005 Author Share Posted February 23, 2005 I was wondering which university in Canada would be the best environment for National team members living in the West? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Ricardo06 I was wondering which university in Canada would be the best environment for National team members living in the West? Definitely the U of S. Balmy winters allow for year round training. If you know any....send them this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T5 Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 Ricardo6: best enviroment - Windsor University of Windsor: Richard "Canadian universities relax their academic standards to accomodate athletes." Windsor has no standards other than graduating from High School and paying tuition. Let's not start pointing fingers my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 quote:Originally posted by T5 Ricardo6: best enviroment - Windsor University of Windsor: Richard "Canadian universities relax their academic standards to accomodate athletes." Windsor has no standards other than graduating from High School and paying tuition. Let's not start pointing fingers my friend. Clearly then Windsor has nothing to relax do they? All of the major universities in Canada have quite stringent but different academic admission requirements, certainly SFU and UBC do. I challenge you to try getting into U of T or McGill with a 65% high school average, no matter how good an athlete you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 quote:Originally posted by T5 Ricardo6: best enviroment - Windsor University of Windsor: Richard "Canadian universities relax their academic standards to accomodate athletes." Windsor has no standards other than graduating from High School and paying tuition. Let's not start pointing fingers my friend. Clearly then Windsor has nothing to relax do they? All of the major universities in Canada have quite stringent but different academic admission requirements, certainly SFU and UBC do. I challenge you to try getting into U of T or McGill with a 65% high school average, no matter how good an athlete you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamiltonfan Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 What school in Canada has the best facilties and really puts money into soccer like they do in schools in the States? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 Not all schools in the USA put piles of money into soccer, only a relatively select few in each of the leagues do. Most soccer programs struggle along as secondary sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamiltonfan Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 Ya..thats true, but what i was talking about is the schools that do put lots of money into soccer. didnt come off that way as I read my post over again. Anyways, what schools in Canada do the same or what school in Canada has the best faciliest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC3 Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 After reading some of the last posts, I thought I'd tell about my team, TWU. On the national team from, we lead Canada West, if not the whole CIS in players recruited for the national team. We have three current players who have previously or are currently playing for Canada. These players are Paul Ballard, Nicola Perigini and Patrick Kelly. They have all represented Canada at the U-20 level. Along with these three, we have had another 3 players nationally carded.(The Riehl Twins (mike and james), along with Brodie Henderson). Becuase we are a fairly new program, we have not yet had players who graduated play for Canada at the men's level, but this will come in the near future. For current national team players, our school is a great choice because of our ties with the national team through our coach (Alan Alderson) and the current players who are connected with the national team. We regualry have Dale Mitchell come out to our games so getting exposure is not a problem. On the issue of facilities and money in a program, I doubt any other Canadian school recieves more than us. We have new facilities which include a new game field that is second to none in Canada along with our own practice field which in itself is a good pitch. We have a grounds crew that keeps our facilities in prime conditions year round. We also have a training staff with our own team physiotherapist, along with nutrional staff and conditioning staff that help us during the season. We have a nice facility and I would encourage anyone to come to TWU to check it out for themselves. Along with our facilities, we go on an annual trip out East to play exhibition games in preparation for our season. If anyone is wondering about program, I would encourage you to also check out our website (www.twu.ca/athletics and click on the mens soccer link). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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