Robert Posted February 3, 2005 Share Posted February 3, 2005 FIFA has their world rankings and ESPN does a world club top 25, so why not start a Voyageurs equivalent. How? Every one can participated. One entry per person. List your top ten from first to tenth. Points awarded will be 10 points for first, 9 points for second, 8 points for third, ect. all the way to 1 point for a tenth place vote. At months end, we add up all the votes and WHALA. 01) Montreal Impact 02) Vancouver Whitecaps 03) Victoria United 04) Toronto Lynx 05) Surrey Pegasus 06) Toronto Croatia 07) Fraser Valley Action 08) Vaughan Shooters 09) Hamilton Thunder 10) Alberta Golden Bears Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJT Posted February 3, 2005 Share Posted February 3, 2005 An interesting idea, but I don't see how we would be able to compare clubs in different leagues, especially when we don't even get to see them play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanKeay Posted February 3, 2005 Share Posted February 3, 2005 Victoria UTD better then the lynx.. come on man.. the system has to be flawed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachesl Posted February 3, 2005 Share Posted February 3, 2005 Sri Lankan Top 10 Ice Hockey Clubs 01) Colombo Impact 02) Matara Whitecaps 03) Victoria Old Boys United 04) Trincolamalle Tygerz!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 05) Curry Pegasus 06) Galle Toon Army (presently suspended play) 07) Kandy Valley Right Wing Xtian Action 08) Tamil Shooters 09) Negombo Industrial Park Thunder 10) Kotte Golden Sun-Bears Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarrek Posted February 3, 2005 Share Posted February 3, 2005 A ranking system is useless since most of the teams never play each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditty Posted February 3, 2005 Share Posted February 3, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Jarrek A ranking system is useless since most of the teams never play each other. The only level that a ranking system might be interesting is Senior Amateur. This leads to the Challenge Cup so there is a definitive method of comparing the clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJT Posted February 3, 2005 Share Posted February 3, 2005 I think you could still do it if you could watch all the clubs and leagues in question, even without inter-league play. But of course we can't do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayWay Posted February 3, 2005 Share Posted February 3, 2005 quote:Originally posted by DJT But of course we can't do that. Speak for yourself old man. Tim Hortons Road Trip - Go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bxl Boy Posted February 3, 2005 Share Posted February 3, 2005 We could maybe, with such a system, make a "Canadian amateur golden shoe" There's an international golden shoe by ESM (European Sport Magazines), I'm sure most of you know that and how it works The best goal scorers of the competition are ranked, with a coefficient if function of the competition Current rankings are here : http://www.worldsoccer.com/esm/esmgoldenshoe.php So, we could do the self with first division provincial competition And the coefficient would be determined by the results of the Challenge Cup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T5 Posted February 3, 2005 Share Posted February 3, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Robert FIFA has their world rankings and ESPN does a world club top 25, so why not start a Voyageurs equivalent. How? Every one can participated. One entry per person. List your top ten from first to tenth. Points awarded will be 10 points for first, 9 points for second, 8 points for third, ect. all the way to 1 point for a tenth place vote. At months end, we add up all the votes and WHALA. 01) Montreal Impact 02) Vancouver Whitecaps 03) Victoria United 04) Toronto Lynx 05) Surrey Pegasus 06) Toronto Croatia 07) Fraser Valley Action 08) Vaughan Shooters 09) Hamilton Thunder 10) Alberta Golden Bears Better still, why not have a open playdown and call the winner the Canada Cup Champion with the order of finish in such a tournament be the respective ranking. Silly thought. Maybe the Whitecaps would be first, followed by Victoria United, then Surrey Pegasus and the then the Fraser Valley Action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polish_LYNX_Fan Posted February 3, 2005 Share Posted February 3, 2005 Victoria ahead of Toronto HAHAHHA joker and if the Voyageurs cup is any indication we should be 2nd on that list sine we were runner up 3 streigh years all ahead of the Whitecaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancouver Fan Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 Another issue(out west)is the fact that many Whitecaps players also play on the top Metro league teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancouver Fan Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 Another issue(out west)is the fact that many Whitecaps players also play on the top Metro league teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Polish_LYNX_Fan Victoria ahead of Toronto HAHAHHA joker and if the Voyageurs cup is any indication we should be 2nd on that list sine we were runner up 3 streigh years all ahead of the Whitecaps. And Surrey Pegasus ahead of Toronto Croatia... And you wondered why I said Montreal-Vancouver Cup Final in the other thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chet Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 Are we ranking them as clubs or are we just ranking the clubs' current senior men's squad? There's a big difference. In terms of the overall quality of their whole organization, including men's, women's and youth programs, I'm inclined to rate the Whitecaps as the top club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted February 4, 2005 Author Share Posted February 4, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Chet Are we ranking them as clubs or are we just ranking the clubs' current senior men's squad? There's a big difference. In terms of the overall quality of their whole organization, including men's, women's and youth programs, I'm inclined to rate the Whitecaps as the top club. I agree with you, that the Whitecaps are the most professional soccer organization in Canada. It's too bad that thus far no one else has taken it upon themselves to challenge Mr. Kerfoot in this capacity. As there aren't too many organizations like the Whitecaps F.C. these proposed rankings should be limited to senior men's squads only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Crampton Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 Shouldn't we wait until the season actually starts? And as for the issue of clubs not playing each other it's not like S.American clubs play European clubs all that often yet ESPN tries to compare them still. Yes the idea is silly but so are all the other lists. Let's just have fun with it. What we really should set up is a list of criteria to consider when voting and a list of "respected" posters eligible to vote. It'd be like the Canadian Sportswirters Association... except it'd be the Canadian Soccer Supporters Hack Internet Posters Association. Hopefully someone's willing to take a stab at administering it. Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted February 4, 2005 Author Share Posted February 4, 2005 quote:Originally posted by BHTC Mike Shouldn't we wait until the season actually starts? And as for the issue of clubs not playing each other it's not like S.American clubs play European clubs all that often yet ESPN tries to compare them still. Yes the idea is silly but so are all the other lists. Let's just have fun with it. What we really should set up is a list of criteria to consider when voting and a list of "respected" posters eligible to vote. It'd be like the Canadian Sportswirters Association... except it'd be the Canadian Soccer Supporters Hack Internet Posters Association. Hopefully someone's willing to take a stab at administering it. Mike. Good points, Mike. Without direct competition, all such lists will always be subjective. However, as the FIFA rankings prove, they do tend to hold public interest and in general they seem to be quite popular. That the ranking are accepted, reflects in the fact that not too many people challenge the Brazil's number one ranking in the world. I must confess that I tried to stir up some poop in my rankings, but only to gauge if anyone else might be interested in participating. I think a list of criteria is an excellent proposal. Without it, the Big Three will probably always occupy the top three positions. Some factors to determine rankings could include; which leagues and teams will be considered for this list. Factoring in the number of games played, weighting them by home and away values, as well as regular season and playoff games. Values could be determined in a way that goalscores are measured in Europe, where a goal in one of the top leagues has a higher factor than in some of the less competitive leagues. For instance, if a win is worth 3 points, than regular season victories by the Impact, Whitecaps and Lynx could be weighted at a factor of 2, which would give the 6 points. A single point for a tie would gain 2 ranking points. A loss and 6 points could be deducted. Like I said, values could be applied for home and away matches, and a higher value could be assigned for play off games. In addition the the big three, all the PCSL and CPSL teams could be included and several metro leagues can also be considered. The more teams involved, the greater the interest potential and also the greater amount of work for those compiling the stats. A system along these lines would make the rankings more credible than a popularity vote as originally suggested. Amazing that the CSA could not have come up with an idea this simple, in an attempt to generate a little more public interest in Canadian soccer. It would have fit right into their budget too, because it costs nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachesl Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 Well, Robert, why don't you do a weekly list based on that formula or something else. Don't know as we want it to be an official thing, but we could create a sticky thread for this section that you could maintain. How does that sound? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rood Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 How about something of a set-up like this, for respective league play? 1-MLS(for the future) - win 3pts, tie 1, loss -3pts 2-USL 1st.div. - " 2.5 , " .5, loss -2.5 3-USL 2nd.div, CPSL, PCSL, others? - " 2.0 , " .25, " -2.0 4-Mens Provincial - " 1.5 , " 0, " -1.5 5-P.D.L, U-21 Provincial - " 1.0 , " 0, " -1.0 6-University, College - " 0.5 , " 0, " -0.5 How does the line of order look? Especially 4-6? For playoff or cup games, to reward points would be tricky. Each league has different set-up on how many games each team plays etc. etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJB Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 How about just an Open Cup Competition that the CSA runs, open to every men's team in the country, professional or amateur. Here in Vancouver, some VMSL teams could give the 'Caps a run, and even the Italian League in Vancouver in the Summer has great teams. It's worth a look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted February 5, 2005 Author Share Posted February 5, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Rood How about something of a set-up like this, for respective league play? 1-MLS(for the future) - win 3pts, tie 1, loss -3pts 2-USL 1st.div. - " 2.5 , " .5, loss -2.5 3-USL 2nd.div, CPSL, PCSL, others? - " 2.0 , " .25, " -2.0 4-Mens Provincial - " 1.5 , " 0, " -1.5 5-P.D.L, U-21 Provincial - " 1.0 , " 0, " -1.0 6-University, College - " 0.5 , " 0, " -0.5 How does the line of order look? Especially 4-6? For playoff or cup games, to reward points would be tricky. Each league has different set-up on how many games each team plays etc. etc. Deciding which teams to include is a key factor. How comprehensive do we make this ranking system and why? A few comments on your proposed levels. The MLS will not be a factor this year. Future considerations can commence when it becomes apparent that there will be Canadian representation at this level. For now, let's just focus on what exists. The USL, first division has three Canadian teams and the second division consisting of the CPSL and the Canadian teams in the PCSL, which would add approximately 20 more teams to a Voyageurs Canadian Soccer Club ranking system (VCSC rankings). The inclusion of these 23 teams in the VCSC rankings is essential. We would need a list of all the leagues involved in the Men's provincial catagory. How many teams participate in these leagues and how accessesable are there records? I question the inclusion of catagories such as the PDL U21s, because this forces the drawing of a line for age groups. It would involve a lot of work and time to include clubs that do not enjoy a recognizable profile. Personally, I would prefer to limit the VCSC rankings to an Open catagory of clubs. Universities and colleges needs clarification. Do universities like UBC have teams that participate at the college level and the PCSL? If so, the compution of their points would involve the different weight factors of the USL second division and the collegiate levels. I believe that the weighting system needs to maintain a consistant ratio throughout the different levels. If a win at the MSL level has a value of 3X and a tie is 1X, then I support a USL first division ratio of 1.5Y and 0.5Y for wins and ties, and not the 2.5Y and 0.5Y ratio that you proposed. I will be away for a few days and it will be interesting to see if this thread develops during this time. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rood Posted February 6, 2005 Share Posted February 6, 2005 MSL W=3, T=1, L=-3 USL(1) 2, .5, -2(instead of 1.5 for a W, beacause what does the next level get...0?) PCSL/CPSL 1, 0, -1 Drop the Mens Provincial, P.D.L, Un-21 Provincial, University, and College. + is there no other equivalent of PCSL and CPSL in Mid or East of Canada? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted March 5, 2005 Author Share Posted March 5, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Rood How about something of a set-up like this, for respective league play? 1-MLS(for the future) - win 3pts, tie 1, loss -3pts 2-USL 1st.div. - " 2.5 , " .5, loss -2.5 3-USL 2nd.div, CPSL, PCSL, others? - " 2.0 , " .25, " -2.0 4-Mens Provincial - " 1.5 , " 0, " -1.5 5-P.D.L, U-21 Provincial - " 1.0 , " 0, " -1.0 6-University, College - " 0.5 , " 0, " -0.5 How does the line of order look? Especially 4-6? For playoff or cup games, to reward points would be tricky. Each league has different set-up on how many games each team plays etc. etc. Based on what the CSA is trying to pawn off on us this week as a national ranking system, or the CCC ranking as they like to refer to it, indicates the time has come to design something a little closer to reality than combined sex records of clubs over a period of the last twenty years. What are these guys smoking? In an attempt to establish some form of credibility, I believe it to be essential to keep matters as simple as possible. If the teams considered for a Canadian ranking were to come from a pool consisting of the first three levels that Rood suggests, we would at this time have 0 MLS teams, 3 USL 1st. division teams, 3 USL 2nd. division teams, 10 PCSL teams and (approx.) 10 CPSL teams for a total of 26 Canadian teams. Please correct me if I’m wrong. I’ll list all the teams involve when all the schedules have been released. Proposed points awarded (win/tie/loss):</u> 6.0/2.0/-6.0---MLS* 3.0/1.5/-3.0---USL 1st division 1.5/0.5/-1.5---CPSL & PCSL * If and when a Canadian franchise is established in the MLS. Proposed point value: </u> Year Value 2005 5/5 2004 4/5 2003 3/5 2002 2/5 2001 1/5 Points will be calculated for period of up to five years, and will reduce in value by 20% per year. The years listed are for example purpose only, as 2005 will be the inaugural year for this ranking system. Proposed game value:</u> 1.0 – regular season games 2.0 – play-off games Feel free to add any comments or suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Crampton Posted March 6, 2005 Share Posted March 6, 2005 Give it a shot Robert. The worst that could happen is that it doesn't work and are we really any worse off then? I still think that we should have a voted listing as well though. Your mathematical coefficient would be like the BCS rankings or UEFA coefficient while a poll voted on by "credentialled" Voyageurs would be our AP poll. I could try and organzie this come May when the seasons get going full swing. I think your idea of limiting the coefficient to only semi-pro and pro teams makes sense though. I would switch the game values to this however: 1.0 - regular season and cup (round robin group) games 1.5 - play-off and cup (single-elimination) games 2.0 - play-off and cup finals Like I said though - might as well give it a shot. Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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