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Some Thoughts on Brazilian Soccer


Canuck Oranje

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After having spent the past month and a half in Brazil, I thought I would share with the board some of my developing opinions on the reasons for Brazilian soccer success.

It's always easy to look at the success of some of the great soccer nations of the world and say that Canada needs to be more like them. Unfortunately, it is not always that easy.

In this post, I will emphasize three key points. These are:

1. The Importance of Pele.

2. The Importance of Soccer Culture.

3. The Importance of Numbers.

1. The Importance of Pele

Often times we forget that Brazil did not win its first World Cup until 1958. Not co-incidentally, it also marked the introduction of Pele to the world scene. There have been other brilliant Brazilian soccer stars but it took Pele to put Brazil on top. There are many in Brazil who believe that had Pele not been injured in 1966, Brazil would have won four World Cups with Pele. They won three of their five with Pele.

Without knowing how Brazil saw itself in soccer before, I can only speculate that these successes would have no doubt resulted in an improved self-image.

Another point is that Pele showed all Brazilians (especially the poor masses) that individual international success was possible for any Brazilian if they were good enough regardless of their economic standing.

In terms of current soccer development, the general success of Brazil internationally, has led to many Brazilians having opportunities to play professionally in Europe. I seem to recall reading that all Brazilian internationals up to 1974 were playing in Brazil. As a result, many Brazilian coaches today have professional playing experience outside of Brazil.

As a foreigner, it is hard to imagine the cultural standing of Pele in Brazil. He has god-like status in Brazil still. For example, he has a large display (equal to any other Afro-Brazilian) dedicated to him in Sao Paulo's AfroBrasil Museum.

Also, I was told a story about how one time heavily-armed kidnappers cornering an armoured Mercedes without knowing who its occupant was(a danger for the wealthy in Brazil). When they forced the driver to open the car and discovered that it was Pele in the back seat, they apologized profusely. They immediately allowed him to go on his way after asking for autographs and his watch.

2. The Importance of Soccer Culture

If you go to the beach you see beach soccer being played. Small groups of kids together with adults play small-sided games on crappy soccer pitches. Even MTV-Brazil hosts a telivised mini-soccer tournament between groups of Brazilian Rock Musicians (some actually are very good players). It is important to point out that the quality of these informal games are really not significantly better than the informal games you would see in parks in Canada.

While professional soccer teams have hard-core support, it does not seem to be as segregated as in some european countries. Many Brazilian families I know have supporters of more than one team within it. In this regard, it seems similar to how Canadians support NHL teams. Different from Canadian families however, it seems that every Brazilian has his/her team regardless of whether they follow soccer at all and they will tell you who they are aligned with.

Add to this, professional soccer is one chance available to boys from poor families to improve their life and that of their families.

3. The Importance of Numbers

Canadian soccer fans need to understand that we cannot use the same development system as Brazil. In fact, I am not sure if our development system is any less efficient up to age 15-16.

I am not even sure if our best coaches are less knowledgeable on how to train young players. Canadian coaches may be less experienced at the highest level but in terms of formal coach's training, we are not deficient.

Brazil simply has the numbers and we don't. Brazil has a population of 180 million people that is concentrated in large cities. We can claim to have high numbers of registered players, but the poor population of Brazil does not register at young ages so it is impossible to compare even on a per capita basis.

The impact of numbers really hits home when you look the Junior tournament currently being played in Sao Paulo State. The Copa Sao Paulo is massive. Check out

http://esportes.terra.com.br/vgn/futebol/copasaopaulo/classificacao.htm

From the televised games that I was able to see while in Sao Paulo, the quality is very high. While the pace of the game is not as frantic the Big Four professional leagues in Europe, the quality of team play in this tournament would be competitive with many second tier professional leagues in Europe.

88 teams representing the junior teams of some of most powerful professional teams in Brazil as well as many smaller clubs around the state of Sao Paulo. If you assume that 10 players on each team will graduate and will want to find professional employment, it means 880 young players are going to enter the competition for places on Brazilian professional teams each year from teams in this tournament alone. There are only 44 professional teams in the top two tiers in Brazil. There are about 50 on the third tier and more lower but they would hardly qualify as full professional employment opportunities.

My point is that with this kind of competition for places on top professional teams in Brazil, there are very few players in Brazil that would feel safe in their current professional employment.

Lessons for Canada

Before anything else, we need to somehow increase the volume of players playing between 16-21. Selecting 14-15 year olds for special training helps but it will not bring Canada forward quickly. We cannot assume that the best players at 14-15 will be the best 20-21 year olds.

In this regard, the NCAA system should be given more credit in developing the USA as a soccer nation. The quality of the MLS would not be what it is today without the USA college system.

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CO, thanks for the post. There's lots of good info in it- specially about the need to keep youth involved in the game. Youth soccer registration in Canada is almost a pyramid, with lots of young kids aged 5, 6 and 7, then fewer in each succeeding age, until there are very few playing after U19. My experience is that this is even more true with boys soccer. The rate of boys quitting between ages 12 to 15 is much higher than for girls.

I'm not sure how widespread the problem is, and it may only apply to recreational soccer players rather than elite palyers, but many boys who graduate from U18 are unable to find a U21 team or an adult team to join, unless they have connections or they are stars.

I'm curious about your comments about technical play you see in Brazil vs Canada. As you say, Brazilian soccer is slower paced. Is there better ball control? Are players better at dribbling and beating defenders 1vs 1? Do they have better first touch? Do you see many long passes (from a defender to a striker) in Brazilian soccer? Do coaches allow kids in Brazil to experiment more with the ball in games, or do they constantly tell their players to pass, and to get rid of the ball, etc?

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CC, in my opinion everything you just said is spot-on. I cant pick out 1 comment that i cant agree with, and as Daniel said, the ncaa comment really is a great point. Our college sports system is unfortunately nowhere near what the americans' is but unfotunately since we put more money in to the academic side of things (albeit not really a bad thing totally) than the athletic side and we dont give out full sports scholarships (not many anyways) but I think that some canadians should, can (and do) use the ncaa system to their advantage (e.g. Simpson, Occean, Friend.....)

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Again, finding a way to keep more players interested in playing after 16 in Canada is an important challenge to be addressed. I agree that clubs in Canada would have to make that happen.

Again, the number of high quality junior players in Brazil is mind boggling. There was one play in the Sao Paulo junior tournament that brought this point home for me. A Striker named Wanderley of Guarany (in the State of Ceara scored on a wonderful sidewinding volley from a flick-on against the Palmeiras "A" team. The goal would have made the "Play of the Week" had it happened in a top professional league in Europe.

The sad thing is Palmeiras won the game 4-1. Guarany eventually finished last in the group and it is possible that this Wanderley may never be heard of again. This possibility shows that the gap between being a successful star professional player in Brazil and playing weekend semi-pro is miniscule.

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To draw a parrallel, this is whythe Americans have grown, because they have two development systems. They have the residency system for the top youth players (based in Florida), yet if you aren't chosen for that system as a youth or high school player, you still have an NCAA scholarship to shoot for and the hope of a pro career afterward.

The comment that the college system essentially stocks MLS is so true. While the kids coming out of the US U-17, and U-20 systems are expected to be stars in MLS, the college players make up those foot soldiers and role players that every team needs. It's a two-pronged approach to development that has served the US very well. It has also helped make sure that late-bloomers don't necessarily fall through the cracks.

BTW, Canuck Oranje, that was excellent insight on Brazilian soccer. I enjoyed it very much. Thanks. :D

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Interesting observations Canuck Orange. Sounds like a fun trip you had.

Its been acknowledged that the the lack of professional structures has hindered the development of the game in canada. You'll get no arguments on that point from anyone. Yet I just finished watching a feature on FSWC on the topic of Brazilian soccer wherby it was mentioned that the pro game in Brazil averages 8K fans per game. That is not far off from Canada. Comparing Brazilian soccer and say Argentina, you realized how much the pro (Club)game lags in Brazil. You commonly see top clubs in Brazil playing in mainly empty stadiums. The strenght on the game in Brazil IMO lies in the culture as you mentioned. This is another reason why you cannot compare Brazil to Canada.

But I do question your assertion that: "we need to somehow increase the volume of players playing between 16-21". I think that canada dos have the numbers. But does Canada have the proper resources to evaluate and assess talent to ensure that the cream rises to the top? IMO no. For that reason, I would prefer more quality rather than quantity in Canada.

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Interesting observations Canuck Orange. Sounds like a fun trip you had.

Its been acknowledged that the the lack of professional structures has hindered the development of the game in canada. You'll get no arguments on that point from anyone. Yet I just finished watching a feature on FSWC on the topic of Brazilian soccer wherby it was mentioned that the pro game in Brazil averages 8K fans per game. That is not far off from Canada. Comparing Brazilian soccer and say Argentina, you realized how much the pro (Club)game lags in Brazil. You commonly see top clubs in Brazil playing in mainly empty stadiums. The strenght on the game in Brazil IMO lies in the culture as you mentioned. This is another reason why you cannot compare Brazil to Canada.

But I do question your assertion that: "we need to somehow increase the volume of players playing between 16-21". I think that canada dos have the numbers. But does Canada have the proper resources to evaluate and assess talent to ensure that the cream rises to the top? IMO no. For that reason, I would prefer more quality rather than quantity in Canada.

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Let me just say that I agree it has to be a combination of quality and volume.

I just disagree that we have volume beyond 16. The percentage of average players or recreational players to quality players may be about the same in Brazil as in Canada. Just they have an enormous volume. Every 16-19 year old male seems to play somewhere in Brazil. Then consider that Brazil's population has an average age of 27 compared to 38 in Canada.

As for average attendance at pro games. That can be easily manipulated and should not be used as a comparison for interest in the professional game. Many people are hard core fans of specific teams but have never been to a game. After one of my earlier trips to Brazil, I had posted a story of a young 22 year old man that I took to a Sao Paulo FC game. At that time, I wrote that this was the first professional game that he (a hard core Corinthians fan) had ever attended. By the way, that game had about 40,000 attending in a stadium that once held over 100,000 so still some empty seats but also a reasonable crowd for a game that didn't mean much.

If you don't have money, you don't go to games. That applies to a large part of the Brazilian population.

As for averages, What levels are considered professional. Only the top level? the top 2? or the top 3? I think it is the same in Brazil as in Europe. The top clubs get reasonable attendances and the rest have a wide range of attendances. This year, however, Rio clubs performed poorly so average attendances may have declined a bit as a result of that.

Finally, I will not say anything to compare Brazilian professional soccer to Argentina other than to say that the move by Tevez to Corinthians says that it can't be too far behind the game in Argentina.

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

Interesting observations Canuck Orange. Sounds like a fun trip you had.

Its been acknowledged that the the lack of professional structures has hindered the development of the game in canada. You'll get no arguments on that point from anyone. Yet I just finished watching a feature on FSWC on the topic of Brazilian soccer wherby it was mentioned that the pro game in Brazil averages 8K fans per game. That is not far off from Canada. Comparing Brazilian soccer and say Argentina, you realized how much the pro (Club)game lags in Brazil. You commonly see top clubs in Brazil playing in mainly empty stadiums. The strenght on the game in Brazil IMO lies in the culture as you mentioned. This is another reason why you cannot compare Brazil to Canada.

But I do question your assertion that: "we need to somehow increase the volume of players playing between 16-21". I think that canada dos have the numbers. But does Canada have the proper resources to evaluate and assess talent to ensure that the cream rises to the top? IMO no. For that reason, I would prefer more quality rather than quantity in Canada.

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My post was not intended to identify all the factors that resulted in Brazil's success. I simply was saying that Pele has had an enormous impact on Brazil in that he represents what success can look like. It may be true that the loss in 1950 was more important than the win in 1958 but I don't think you would get any arguement that the person in Brazil who had the greatest impact on soccer in Brazil is Pele.

quote:Originally posted by BHTC Mike

The only thing that I think needs to be added to your evaluation of Brazil's success is LOSING the '50 WC Final at home. Having read Alex Bellos' book on Brazilian soccer he makes the point that this loss (rather than the '58 win) is what galvanized the population and made winning a national obsession.

Mike.

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CO, you mentioned Corinthians. Can you ask someone there about Rob Sing. He was trying out for a spot in their organization last summer. He's 18 now, and from BC. A friend told me that he was offered a spot with Corinthians but he didn't have a work permit, so he'll try again this summer.

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I don't have any special access to Corinthians but I can say that getting a work permit to play soccer as a young player would be the challenge if he has no family connections to a Mercosur country.

quote:Originally posted by analyst

CO, you mentioned Corinthians. Can you ask someone there about Rob Sing. He was trying out for a spot in their organization last summer. He's 18 now, and from BC. A friend told me that he was offered a spot with Corinthians but he didn't have a work permit, so he'll try again this summer.

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quote:Originally posted by Canuck Oranje

1. The Importance of Pele.

2. The Importance of Soccer Culture.

3. The Importance of Numbers.

Yeah, I would say #3 is what separates Brasil from everybody else tho. #1 and #2 applies to dozens of countries. If Brasil had a population of 20 million would they be any better than the likes of Argentina, Holland, Portugal, etc.? Probably not.

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...and #2 is what separates Canada from everybody else.

I just returned from Costa Rica, our conquerers in CONCACAF, and one thing that catches the attention there is that every collection of houses that can be loosely termed a town, has a state funded soccer field right beside the state funded school and medical clinic. This modest patch of grass is very much the center of the community and always seems to have some sort of activity on it. When there is a real game on everyone from miles around shows up to stake out a place in the shade to watch the action and the bus driver even slows down to ask the score!

Canada has a similar relationship with hockey, which is something to be proud of, but will we ever be on an equal footing with those nations that have an embedded soccer culture and identify themselves individually and collectively with the game? Let's face it, curling has more effect on our national concsiousness than the "Jogo Bonito."

Can you imagine if Canada followed their example, scrapped the military altogether and diverted the money into healthcare, education and community based soccer programs?

We'll never be a tropical paradise; will we ever be a soccer nation?

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Here is another thought in respect to our soccer culture. Rather than exporting our better players we could import players and coaches, sort of immigrant settlers to develop our soccer population and culture. I don't mean the top players or coaches from Europe, South America or Asia, but those who may not become weathly in their own soil, but that are better than our present canadian soccer standards. A bigger and more varied ethnic injection.

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quote:Originally posted by The Ref

Here is another thought in respect to our soccer culture. Rather than exporting our better players we could import players and coaches, sort of immigrant settlers to develop our soccer population and culture. I don't mean the top players or coaches from Europe, South America or Asia, but those who may not become weathly in their own soil, but that are better than our present canadian soccer standards. A bigger and more varied ethnic injection.

The players who fall into this category are much more likely to go to Mexico or the USA. Where is Canada going to get the money to outbid these countries for players (especially with so much money going towards bilingualism and snow-removal ;)) when the average Canadian tax-payer doesn't give a crap about the sport of soccer?

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"immigrant settlers to develop our soccer population"

You mean like some kind of Dr. Strangelove breeding program? I hear Beckenbauer is a randy old goat, maybe we could get him to produce a half dozen progeny for our World Cup 2024 program!

Even so, it would still take a major shift in perception for those little kaisers to think of themselves in soccer terms. When kinds imagine they're a DeVos instead of a Domi, then we've got a soccer culture.

We'd have to take those little Beckenbauer bastards and isolate them in a facility where they would have no exposure to hockey and prop their eyelids open while they watch Canada's Mexico '86 campaign over and over.

We must not fall behind in the breeding race!!!

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What do you mean, when kids think of themselves as De Vos instead of Domi?

What hockey kid would want to be Domi - I know its the Leafs, but how about Martin St Louis or Lecavalier - someone with offensive flair and hair.

Sure hope lots of kids don't want to be De Vos, rather they be De Guzman or Radzinski. We need more and better attacking players.

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We're starting to see that in Montréal, with local players having played here for at least 3 years. The youths want to be Biellos, Gervais and Leducs. This summer should be crucial for exposure in Montréal and I'm hoping we can drag some other cities into noticing their teams (ala NLL Rock and lacrosse expansion - although failed, the awareness was there).

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