Massive Attack Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 Well, I can't think of anything recent off the top of my head, but there was the deplorable treatment of Sikh's by the Legion in the early 90's in Western Canada. That's the same kind of mentality I'm talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Grizzly The Carter example is a pretty poor analogy. First he did not react with class but insulted the Russian people in turn just as he was insulted. So you're sitting at work trying to do your job and a bunch of unknown people chuck blaukraut at you and pour vodka on your head while chanting racist slurs in a threatening manner. I'm sure you would say to the reporter sticking a mic in your face : 'This is totally unacceptable behavior and should be condemned.' That would definitely be extra-classy, but not everbody can uphold such high standards after being assaulted. Which, to play amateur lawyer, is the key difference. Carter reacted to violence with words. To me, that's reasonably classy. The Sikh reference reminds me, once again playing amateur lawyer, that those legionnaires and their friends who didn't come home fought and died, some at the hands of fascists, for some basic principles: freedom of conscience and religion, freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, freedom of peaceful assembly, and freedom of association. In 2 generations we've become such utter pussies. I don't disagree that Pablo was utterly unprofessional. And as obsevers, the citizenry of the beautiful game, we should strive to kick racism out of football. Nevertheless, if we agree to discuss the action outside the confines of the game, bringing it into our broader society, we Canadians should respect our forefathers and defend Paco's rights to be an idiot. I know the Russians would just shoot him for being uncooth. Maybe that is more efficient, alas efficiency and fundamental freedoms are often at odds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massive Attack Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 Give me a break, what happened at the Legion had deep racist/bigot undertones. Why did the Legion have no problem with white people wearing baseball caps or cowboy hats? Yet they were offended by Sikh people because of their headress? The excuse of defending our country was utter bullshi.t. These were people who saw the world around them changing, and they didn't like it, because it wasn't as white as it use to be. These are the same kind of people who gravitate to right wing parties, or vote for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack Give me a break, what happened at the Legion had deep racist/bigot undertones. Why did the Legion have no problem with white people wearing baseball caps or cowboy hats? Yet they were offended by Sikh people because of their headress? The excuse of defending our country was utter bullshi.t. These were people who saw the world around them changing, and they didn't like it, because it wasn't as white as it use to be. These are the same kind of people who gravitate to right wing parties, or vote for them. Sorry. You COMPLETELY misunderstand me. I was echoing your comments to a degree. If one is defending the above mentioned rights, it's ridiculous to take them away for those to who they should be afforded (ie Legion/Sikh example). Of course. My point was to echo your claim that worse things have happened in Canada, and to extend that foundation to claim that we should support the memory of those of us who died fighting fascist by being a little more thick skinned. So I will give you one break. But from now on don't be so touchy and quick to jump before you read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massive Attack Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 Sorry about that. I get carried away sometimes. I agree with your overall sentiment though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted January 11, 2005 Author Share Posted January 11, 2005 quote: I am a Lazio fan and I think that DiCanio is an idiot for what he did. But if you think his mentality is any different from the neo-cons in our own country you're living in a dreamworld. I am certainly not a fan of neo-cons and there is a percentage of them that do have racist background but I doubt too many of them would actually give the fascist salute or vote for a neo-Nazi party. As far as all the examples given of racist action, a distinguishement has to be made between milder examples of bigotry and advocating violent racist persecution. Neither are laudable but the second form, represented by the fascist salute, is far worse. There is a difference between someone who might use the n-word or throw a banana peel on the ice and someone who would join the KKK or a neo-fascist party and commit acts of violence against a racial group. The legion should have been more tolerant and understanding of the Sikh culture but they did not kill them or even threaten them with violence and in all likelihood would have defended the Sikh community had anyone else attacked them. quote:So you're sitting at work trying to do your job and a bunch of unknown people chuck blaukraut at you and pour vodka on your head while chanting racist slurs in a threatening manner. I'm sure you would say to the reporter sticking a mic in your face : 'This is totally unacceptable behavior and should be condemned.' That would definitely be extra-classy, but not everbody can uphold such high standards after being assaulted. Which, to play amateur lawyer, is the key difference. Carter reacted to violence with words. To me, that's reasonably classy. You are trying to exagerate what happened to support your case. At the game in St. Petersburg a handful of fans threw bananas on the ice two or three times when Carter was on the ice at which point the refs had to stop the game to remove the bananas. There was neither any violence involved or threat of violence. The bananas weren't even actually thrown at him but merely on the ice. The majority of fans did not engage in racist behaviour. If you read my post I state that his reaction was understandable, I might react the same way. However, don't tell me it is laudable to respond to a racial slur by responding with a racial slur against your tormentors even if you are angry. In doing so he sank to the same level as the perpetrators and offended the vast majority of Russians who are not racists. As a Canadian who spends a lot of time in Russia, I was embarrassed by the acts of those fans who threw the bananas but I was also embarrassed by Carter's response. quote:The Sikh reference reminds me, once again playing amateur lawyer, that those legionnaires and their friends who didn't come home fought and died, some at the hands of fascists, for some basic principles: freedom of conscience and religion, freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, freedom of peaceful assembly, and freedom of assossiation. In 2 generations we've become such utter pussies. I don't disagree that Pablo was utterly unprofessional. And as obsevers, the citizenry of the beautiful game, we should strive to kick racism out of football. Nevertheless, if we agree to discuss the action outside the confines of the game, bringing it into our broader society, we Canadians should respect our forefathers and defend Paco's rights to be an idiot. I am actually someone who does not believe in censorship or even our Canadian hate laws. I think someone such as Di Canio should have the right to hold whatever views he wants regardless of how repugnant. Other members of society also have the right to criticize him and his views and the league and club management have the right to suspend or fire him for expressing his views at an inapporpriate time. If Di Canio wants to be a racist, fascist as a private citizen that is his right as long as he doesn't commit any violence. He should not have this right however to express his views while wearing the uniform of and representing a prominent soccer club. quote:I know the Russians would just shoot him for being uncooth. It doesn't make your argument very convincing when you end it by making an ignorant and racist statement of your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massive Attack Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 Grizzly, I'm not saying they act the same. I'm trying to say that they hold the same values. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 I guess I find this topic interesting because I see three possible reactions, and I'm surprised given the forum at the one which is rising to the forefront. It seems to me you could view this incident from the perspective of the the Italian FA. Clearly fascism is bad for business and Paulo could be fined 2 weeks wages for unprofessional behaviour or face some ban a la Rio -as it would follow that fascism is more repugnant to football supporters than pot smoking judging from this board. The more likely viewpoint I would expect is that of a supporter himself. I would expect DiCannio and his club/league to be trashed, ridiculed, or perhaps defended. This is what I liked about Anson Carter's statements. He took some verbal jabs in the spirit of competitive trash talk. He didn't go off on a socialiogical diatribe. He merely took a shot over the bow of some racist ****s. Well within the range of the event itself. The third reaction is that of Grizzly. He's turned this incident into one of the most deplorable in world history. It has become an ethical debate dominated by his own seemingly fascist tendencies toward exaggeration. Nobody was injured, no crimes were committed, no individual or group were even figuratively attacked. I think we all at least appreciate the negative connotations of the gesture. But it's not against the law in this country, and as far as I'm concerned it's not morally offensive in-and-of-itself. I don't want to minimize the fact that the gesture is offensive to many. I do however have one last issue. The more we throw around the word "Racism," the less it means. Grizzly has taken a clearly racist incident in Russia which at least borders on assault and minimized it in comparison to the DiCannio affair and even a good-natured jab toward Russians meant to get his goat. That's ****ed up. Throwing bananas at black men = racism. Fascist gesture = fascism maybe, bad taste. Maybe the fascists were just shooting in the general direction of the Allied troops, not really AT them. Just like the Carter incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peschfan Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 I think we can all agree at least that the gesture was inappropriate, but we dont know if Di Cnaio is an actual activist and/or supporter of neo-fascism. If im not mistaking, Lazio was the club Mussolini favoured, and hence the sign could have been adopted by mussolini supportes tocelebrate Lazio victory along with Mussolini victory. We all kno what the contemporary meaning is, i am not denying that there is no significance and offensiveness along with it, especially to thope who only kno it to be associated with fasscism, however i am suggesting there are other possibile meanings behind it, somehting "Lazio ultras" did when Lazio was successful to copy Mussolini. I dont think Di Canio is a racist or a fascist, and im not going to go on a high horse and pass judgement without all the facts. If he does however hold these beliefs, unourtunatley he is demonstrating great ignorance, and my respect for him will be all but gone as a man. but he is still a good footballer, and brings a type of energy to Lazio that i feel without a doubt is keeping them out of a relegation battle. So as a Lazio fan not a "Lazio ultra" i support Di Canio the footballer, and hope that circumstantial evidence is just that and not an ugly truth about folk hero for a club I support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrennanFan Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 quote: a distinguishement has to be made between milder examples of bigotry and advocating violent racist persecution. Neither are laudable but the second form, represented by the fascist salute, is far worse. I think this is the key issue. Symbols mean different things to different people. DiCannio's salute means violent racist persecution to you, but it may have meant something entirely different to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachesl Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 Think I'll head down to the local synagogue with a Nazi flag, and wave it as the congregation comes and go. It may mean violent racist persecution to them, but it has an entirely different meaning (pride in ancient hindu symbols) to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 It would be false to claim that Italian Fascism was or is an inherently racist ideology. To equate it with Nazism is dubious at best. How many Roma supporters have any relationship to persons killed by Italian Fascists because of their race? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted January 11, 2005 Author Share Posted January 11, 2005 quote:He's turned this incident into one of the most deplorable in world history. It has become an ethical debate dominated by his own seemingly fascist tendencies toward exaggeration. And you accuse me of exageration! I have not turned it into on of the most deplorable in world history but it is one of the most deplorable incidents committed by a professional athlete on the playing field making a gesture that represents on the most deplorable incidents in world history. quote:Nobody was injured, no crimes were committed, no individual or group were even figuratively attacked. I think we all at least appreciate the negative connotations of the gesture. But it's not against the law in this country, and as far as I'm concerned it's not morally offensive in-and-of-itself. That you don't find the fascist salute morally offensive in and of itself shows the viewpoint from which you are viewing the debate. I wonder whether those groups who had thousands of their members killed by fascists feel not even figuratively attacked by the gesture. I am not minimizing the Carter incident at all rather others are trying to minimize this incident by throwing others into the mix. What happened to Carter was a disgraceful incident committed by a handful of fans similar to the recent racial insults that black players have endured from several fans in English Premiership matches. In both cases it must be noted that this was a reaction of only a small number of fans who while bigoted did not identify themselves with fascism during the incident. The giving of the fascist salute by a large number of Real Madrid fans during a recent Champions League game is more serious in my opinion both because of the symbol itself and the number of people performing it. This incident did, however, receive widespread condemnation yet a large group of Lazio fans performs this salute every game with hardly any reaction. The Real fans may have done this partly out of ignorance or insensitivity but there are long links between the Lazio hooligans and fascist groups. I am not saying every or even the majority of Lazio fans are fascists but the club has to take some responsibility for not dealing with the problem. I think fascists should have the right to perform the salute at their own meetings if they want to but a soccer club is a private enterprise and does not have to allow this. If it does allow this it permits itself to be associated with the political viewpoints being expressed. I am not advocating that every neo-Nazi skinhead be arrested for being a neo-Nazi skinhead but if I am a bar owner I don't have to allow neo-Nazi skinheads into my bar and neither does Lazio have to allow them into their stadiums. Schalke and Nurnberg were favourite Nazi clubs during the Third Reich but their present fans (or even their hooligans) don't give the fascist salute at games nor are they connected to fascist groups. The fascist salute represents not only mere racial prejuduice but also the extermination of racial groups, political opponents and the initiation of massive wars that killed many Canadians among others. If Di Canio is not aware of this he is either absolutly ignorant of history, incredibly insensitive or a fascist himself. The thing that makes this incident so unusual and reprehensible is that it was made by a player on the field of play not by a group of drunken fans. I can't recall a similar incident ever occuring. Di Canio is very well paid to represent his club with honour and is a public figure. If he wants to be a fascist after he retires that is he is right although I certainly won't respect him for it. He had no right to make the gesture wearing a Lazio uniform and if the club does not punish him for doing so they are associating themselves with the fascist movement. If I were a Lazio fan I would be the first person calling for him to be punished to defend the club's honour instead of defending him and apologizing for him. I don't understand why so many posters here have such a hard time condemning him for making a very offensive gesture and feel the need to defend and apologize for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted January 11, 2005 Author Share Posted January 11, 2005 quote:Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone It would be false to claim that Italian Fascism was or is an inherently racist ideology. To equate it with Nazism is dubious at best. How many Roma supporters have any relationship to persons killed by Italian Fascists because of their race? Whether or not it was inherently racist it was inherently violent and murderous. I would choose racist pacifists over non-racist murderers anytime. They are quite rightly equated with Nazism because that is who they themselves chose to ally themselves with and collaborate with. This debate has nothing to do with Roma or their fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amacpher Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Grizzly Well, I've never been to Italy but I think you still have to factor in the location of the incident. By way of example, saying the "N"-word in Spain is not the same as saying it in North America. I also don't think Carter went down to the same level as the people who hurled the bananas at him. Making a racist comment to an individual is totally different than making a derogatory comment towards a group of millions (ie. the Russian population in this case). Pretend for a second that Carter lived in Russia. Then safe to say even a few racist morons would be enuf to affect his career or his desire to continue living there. But nothing Carter says in a post-game interview will seriously harm anyone in Russia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Grizzly Whether or not it was inherently racist it was inherently violent and murderous. I would choose racist pacifists over non-racist murderers anytime. They are quite rightly equated with Nazism because that is who they themselves chose to ally themselves with and collaborate with. This debate has nothing to do with Roma or their fans. I should have included beaches! quote with that post. I was responding to him. There is no evidence DiCannio is a Nazi sympathizer. I believe Peschfan made a similar point at the beginning of this thread. You shot him down for reading "apologist" material. This is a pretty strong insult. You've been throwing racism around left, right, and center. We all agree the gesture was inappropriate and he should likely be punished by his club/association. However, no facts suggest he is associated with the so-called "third stage" of Italian fascism, dominated by the Third Reich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
massimo Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 The lastest from Mr Di Canio...enjoy the rollercoaster ride! Di Canio rages at Roma Tuesday 11 January, 2005 --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Derby della Capitale still isn’t over, as Paolo Di Canio defends his controversial celebrations and slams Roma’s star players. The veteran was a key figure in the 3-1 victory on Jan 6, scoring the opening goal, but was caught by photographers’ lenses in what appeared to be a Nazi salute after the final whistle. “I had only gone to the sidelines in order to experience this win with the fans,” assured the lifelong Lazio supporter. “There were many photographers there and they can take hundreds of pictures per minute with those new cameras. I only had my arm raised for a second, but they made it seem like something it wasn’t.” Di Canio has gone to great lengths to disassociate himself from members of the far right political parties in Italy, who took his salute as a sign of Fascist pride. However, he has also taken the waves of criticism to heart – especially those comments coming from Roma players. Vincenzo Montella had said: “Adrenaline makes you do and say things that are wrong and we players must remember that we have to set an example for children everywhere. It’s especially silly to make these kinds of mistakes when you’re 36 years of age.” Di Canio did not take long to hit back at these statements in the press with a vitriolic personal attack on the recently divorced Roma star. “Montella is suddenly acting like the moral majority in the role of good father and innocent lad,” slammed the former Premiership player. “I tell him my daughters are very proud of their father, a man who is always honest and consistent in his values. I’m not sure Montella’s family can say the same.” The ‘Aeroplanino’ wasn’t the only one on the receiving end of a tongue lashing in the press, as Di Canio also reacted to Christian Panucci’s criticism. “I am certainly not going to follow the example of a man who refused to play despite being a professional who is paid handsomely,” snapped the veteran. Panucci was frozen out of the Roma squad earlier this season for entering into a row with Coach Gigi Del Neri. In other news, Atalanta have confirmed that Lazio have put in a bid for defender Cesare Natali, though a move is unlikely to be completed before the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted January 12, 2005 Author Share Posted January 12, 2005 quote:There is no evidence DiCannio is a Nazi sympathizer. I believe Peschfan made a similar point at the beginning of this thread. You shot him down for reading "apologist" material. This is a pretty strong insult. You've been throwing racism around left, right, and center. We all agree the gesture was inappropriate and he should likely be punished by his club/association. However, no facts suggest he is associated with the so-called "third stage" of Italian fascism, dominated by the Third Reich. I would say that Di Canio giving a salute that is associated in all the world with the Nazis is some evidence of him having Nazi sypathies. Peschfan claimed to have studied history and Mussolini and then made historically inaccurate posts. I stated he either hadn't studied history as much as he claimed or had been reading apologist material. I think the first possibility is the most likely. If you are going to claim you are an expert on a subject then post accurate and researched information. Certain people here including yourself seem to have the need to apologize for Di Canio and claim that Mussolini wasn't so bad and those bad things he did do were because he was under Hitler's control. As opposed to throwing accusations of racism around, I haven't speculated at all on why certain posters feel the need to defend both Di Canio and Mussolini. There are certainly other reasons other than being racist for doing this (Lazio supporter, Italian nationalist) although I don't think they are valid reasons. Whether Mussolini was or was not truly racist is not known, what is known is he was a mass murderer and dictator. My personal opinion is he probably was not racist but was willing to persecute and murder whoever necessary to promote his interests. You are again attempting to minimize his crimes by referring the third stage of Italian fascism that you imply can be blamed largely on the Germans. I don't accept that the third stage can be blamed entirely on the Germans or on Hitler. In addition the previous stages of Italian fascism were very bad in themselves and Mussolini had earned himself the distinction of a murderous dictator before Hitler was even a player on the world scene. Di Canio's behaviour since the salute hasn't been exactly glorious either. First he claimed it was non-political and now he claims he wasn't actually making the salute but was waving to the crowd. He is basically lying because he knows this could hurt his career. He knows that publicly admitting he is a fascist would end his career. If this guy had any class he would apologize for his actions and accept whatever suspension is hopefully coming to him. I think if he didn't have fascist sympathies we would have heard an apology several days ago. Instead he chose to insult certain players who rather mildly criticized his actions. Again I don't understand why anyone here has a problem with Di Canio being strongly condemned for his actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 I have little time for DiCannio the player. But we stopped discussing him in this context a long time ago. Nor am I an Il Duce advocate. That's absurd. Doubly absurd coming from the guy who called Anson Carter a racist. Peschfan didn't claim to be an expert on Mussolini or Italian history. He just said he read a book. You are the one who took the condescending tone of expertise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayWay Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 quote:Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone But it's not against the law in this country, and as far as I'm concerned it's not morally offensive in-and-of-itself. quote: I don't want to minimize the fact that the gesture is offensive to many. Well...which one is it? quote: I do however have one last issue. The more we throw around the word "Racism," the less it means. Grizzly has taken a clearly racist incident in Russia which at least borders on assault and minimized it in comparison to the DiCannio affair and even a good-natured jab toward Russians meant to get his goat. That's ****ed up. Wow. You can come up with a number of examples to prove the over-the-top-nature of political correctness in society today - giving the Nazi salute in front of 80,000 fans and a T.V audience of millions is definitely not one of them. Condemning the lack of visable minorities on network television = Very possibly political correctness. Condemning a respected public figure for showing the Nazi salute = Not political correctness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayWay Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 quote: There is no evidence DiCannio is a Nazi sympathizer. There isn't? He showed the Nazi salute in public. He's has the term 'Dux' tattood on his body. He's published his admiration for Mussolini. He's stated his almost hero-like admiration for the leader of the Irriducibili, a group with far-right and racist views, and a man who has gone on record in voicing his concerns about the dangers the 'Italian race' faces in immigration. And all of this in public, where as Grizzly rightly pointed out, for a public figure, is probably a realm calling for extreme caution in what he says. If this was anyone but DiCannio, if this was just a regular joe off the street, you can't tell me that you wouldn't suspect of racist tendencies... Frankly, the fact that he even respects the Irriducibili and admires it's leader is bad enough, even if he himself is not a racist. What it tells you is that he's a man at least prepared to accept and tolerate hate, even if he doesn't preach it himself. And that in itself is justification for scorn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Champ Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Racism = Bad Sensationalism = Bad DiCanio = Ass Mussolini = George Bush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted January 12, 2005 Author Share Posted January 12, 2005 quote:Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone I have little time for DiCannio the player. But we stopped discussing him in this context a long time ago. Nor am I an Il Duce advocate. That's absurd. Doubly absurd coming from the guy who called Anson Carter a racist. Peschfan didn't claim to be an expert on Mussolini or Italian history. He just said he read a book. You are the one who took the condescending tone of expertise. This thread is about Di Canio and his fascist salute whether or not other issues have been brought into it. Pesch fan stated, "Ive studied history and Mussolini" which sounds like a claim of expertise to me. I never called Anson Carter a racist, I said he responded to a racial insult with an insult of his own. He insulted the country of Russia but not in a racist manner, his comment was mostly about the poor standard of living there. I also do not think that his statement was one that should receive censure or be widely condemned as he was reacting in the heat of the moment to a bad insult. Just don't try and say that it was a classy reaction. I don't care if you like or approve of my tone but if you want to get any respect from me then at least post accurate facts. At this point you can't even quote accurately what I or other posters have said so it is pretty hard to expect you to understand European history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 quote:Originally posted by JayWay Well...which one is it? Wow. You can come up with a number of examples to prove the over-the-top-nature of political correctness in society today - giving the Nazi salute in front of 80,000 fans and a T.V audience of millions is definitely not one of them. Condemning the lack of visable minorities on network television = Very possibly political correctness. Condemning a respected public figure for showing the Nazi salute = Not political correctness. I believe our perception is our reality. Once again, this is why I admire how Anson Carter responded to the situation in Russia. He basically said, 'In my world, you're the nigger.' That to me shows mental strength. For me the fascist salute is meaningless. No more offensive than Henry running around with his shirt off at Anfield on a Saturday morning. I do, however, understand how others perceive this gesture much differently. These views are not mutualy exclusive. I consciously avoided using?the ter? "PC." ?acism needs to ?e accur?tely de?ined and accura?ely applied. In?this case, I'm ?ot reacting to ?olitica? correc?ness. R?ther, I see one?crucial?aspect ?f fascism right?here in?this thread: co?demnation without due process. ?e all agree Pau?o was unprofess?onal. I? he rac?st? Not enough ?vidence? I ?ave?tat?ooe? th?t d?n't mea? th? sa?e t?ing? th?y o?ce ?id.?I've sp?nt ?ime?wit? un?avo?y c?ara?ter? wi?h whom ? no?lon?er ?ave?con?act? Most p?opl? who ha?e had a?lif? ha?e a?sim?lar story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhat Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Current Champ Racism = Bad Sensationalism = Bad DiCanio = Ass Mussolini = George Bush George Bush is Italian? Great post, CC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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