DiCannio Celebrates Win By Giving Fascist Salute

[Grizzly]

Lazio fans have been doing this for years but now I guess their players have joined in. Lazio defeated Roma 3-1 yesterday with DiCannio scoring the first goal. The salute came during the post game celebrations. DiCannio is known for having fascist sympathies and admiring Mussolini. Apparently he also has some fascist tattoos. Interesting thread on the issue at big soccer:

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=160693&page=1&pp=15

For those of you who can read italian here are a couple of links to articles (couldn't find anything in english yet):

http://www.repubblica.it/2005/a/sezioni/sport/calcio/serie_a/salutocanio/salutocanio/salutocanio.html

and http://www.gazzetta.it/primi_piani/calcio/2005/pp_1.0.626741432.shtml

[bettermirror]

if this is true, it upsets me that during this game (and while he was at west ham and charlton) i was wishing that the move to man united had come to fruition.

[beachesl]

oooh, scumbag

[Timotas]

I'm surprised. I wasn't even aware Di Canio was like this, I always had a great deal of respect for him, especially after a few years ago when he won the fair sportsman award, I don't know if you guys remember, but the keeper was injured out of the goal, and the referee hadn't blown the whistle, and Di Canio could have headed it into the open goal, but instead he caught the ball and made sure that the goalie was ok. This just changes my whole view of Di Canio as a player now.

[Grizzly]

An article on the affair in English:

Di Canio criticised after 'fascist' salute

MILAN, Jan 8 (Reuters) - Lazio striker Paolo Di Canio has been criticised across the political spectrum in Italy after images showed him celebrating his team's derby win against AS Roma with a fascist-style salute.

At the end of Thursday's game, won 3-1 by Lazio with Di Canio among the scorers, the former England-based player ran underneath the Lazio supporters at the North End of the stadium to celebrate the victory.

Photographs published in newspapers on Saturday clearly showed Di Canio displaying a stiff armed salute to the crowd, identical to the 'Roman salute' used by followers of Italy's wartime fascist dictator Benito Mussolini.

Alessandra Mussolini, grand-daughter of the late dictator and herself a far-right politician, praised Di Canio's actions.

'How nice that Roman salute was, it delighted me so much,' she said, 'I shall write him a thank-you note'.

Di Canio though denied there was any political content to his gesture: 'I am a professional football and my celebrations had nothing to do with political behaviour of any kind, in particular not those expressed by Mrs Floriani' he told the daily Gazzetta dello Sport using Alessandra Mussolini's married name.

But Italy's Minister for EU affairs, the conservative politician Rocco Buttiglione said the salute had real meaning.

'The Roman salute brings back painful memories for many Italians. Sport should bring people together but the symbols of that terrible civil war can only divide.

'He should think about the offspring of those who were killed and what it would be like for them to see that,' he added.

Centre-left politician Enzo Foschi said he respected Di Canio as a footballer but was appalled by his gesture.

'That salute cannot pass without comment. It gives legitimacy to fascism, a murderous and tyrannical ideology. I take my cap off to Di Canio the footballer but Di Canio the fascist is a disgrace,' he said.

Di Canio, who was a hardcore Lazio 'ultra' during his youth before joining the club as a player, has never made any secret of his political affiliations.

In his autobiography he said he was 'fascinated' by Benito Mussolini and said the dictator has been 'deeply misunderstood' and was 'basically a very principled, ethical individual'.

Di Canio, who returned to Lazio in the close season after spells with Scottish club Celtic and English teams Sheffield Wednesday, West Ham United and Charlton Athletic, was also criticised for his goal celebrations.

After last season's derby ended in a riot, officials had urged players to show restraint during the game but Di Canio celebrated his goal in front of Roma supporters beating his fist against his heart and shouting.

[Peschfan]

Ive studied history and Mussolini, and that salute actually originally had nothing to do with fascism or racism. Mussolini was in fact a germaphobe. He hated shaking peoples hands, especially when they didnt kno where they have been. He created taht salute or greeting as a replacement for the handshake in Rome. then it was a greeting everyone copied because the leader was doing it. and since everyone under Mussolini was fascist it becasme a fascist salute. Hitler liked the slaute and adopted it as a nazi salute himself. In fact Hitler took alot of Mussolini's ideas, he even had a mold of him on his desk. unfourtuantely for Mussolini, he is closely associated on the same scaleof evil wiht Hitler, when it actually is not the case. Mussolini was a nationalist no doubt but he did not hold the same rascist ideals Hitler held. Mussolini mad some mistakes when in power and really had no chice but to turn to Hitler as a last resort, because he made some tactical mistakes. Hitler took advantage of this and Mussolin had no choice but to align.

This is where Di Canio mentions him in his book.

"I think he was a deeply misunderstood individual. There are two aspects to my fascination with Mussolini. The first is the way he faced difficulties and overcame them ..... Mussolini's other great quality was his patriotism. Like me he was a nationalist ..... He deceived people, his actions were often vile or calculated. But all this was motivated by a higher purpose. At stake was the fate of a nation ... What fascinates me, and this is probably where Mussolini and I are very different, is the way he was able to go against his morals to achieve his goal."

as he says they are simialr in nationalism but differ on morals. Di Canio is a highly moral and ethical man. He is defiantely old fashioned and does hold mostly right wing views, but he says he doesnt see how he could go against his morals to achieve his goals. a perfect example of this is hen Di Canio did not score on the open net when the keeper was down injured.

Should of he made the salute, probably not, what did he mean behind it? well Di Canio himself will only really know, but i think it was a salute of roman pride and yes nationalism.

In this day and age though gestures like that dont go unnoticed, and the pro roma media definatrly played this up to all it could "potentially be" instead of what it really was.

[Former Champ]

Well put 'fan. I wanted to say something like that as well, but yu did a good job.

[highburygooner]

typical lazio ultra stuff. i think this is more a case of di canio's allegiance to the ultras rather than fascist sympathies. reminds me of gazza's flute playing against celtic.

the fair play award was a bit of a blip in di canio's record...though it was remarkable. isn't this the same paolo di canio who managed to get banned for eleven games for shoving the referee and kicking martin keown in the head (not that keown's head could get much worse)?

[redhat]

Fascist tendencies + facist salute = non-fascist individual?

C'mon Paolo, it's 2005 ...

I really don't know what to say after admiring him when he was at West Ham ...

[beachesl]

Sorry, there is no whitewashing Mussolini. His henchmen murdered tens of thousands of political opponents unde rhis direction, his troops pillaged countries and musrdered innocents in places like Ethiopia and Albania long before Hitler did. He was less efficient at killing Jews, but he is resonsible for killing thousands. It doesn't matter if a slightly milder form of facism invented the facist salute, we should all know what it is today. There is no excuse for ANYONE giving a Facist salute. If Di Canio is not suspended for at least a month, there is something seriously wrong.

[beachesl]

I should comment however that the vast majority of Lazio fans, well over 90%. are not neo-facists or racists, and do not do the fascist salute. Lazio fans should no more be labeled Nazis than Spanish or Real fans as rascist. The problem was, with those Roma fans who also objectionable, is with a samll minority. In fact many Jews, Blacks and leftwingers in the Rome area support Lazio,

However, the clubs have a responsibility for actions of those they let into the stadiums, and both the Roman clubs should do more to stop them from coming and to police them or be held accountable. The actions of a samll but signifcant base of fans for both clubs have made the Olympic Stadium an unsafe place to play and watch serie A. The Stadium should have all matches behind close doors for a month.

Lazio is responsible for Di Canio's actions at the Stadium, especially in the flammable context of a Rome derby. He should be supended by his own club, much less the league , for an even longer period. Facism explicitly and implicitly involves racism. Failure to act would condone racism and make a mockery of soccer's antti=racism efforts.

[Grizzly]

Peschfan I would recommend you put a lot more effort into your history studies or stop reading books by neo-Nazi revisionists like Ernst Zundel. First of all your claim that Mussolini is not on the same scale of evil as Hitler is similar to a murderer claiming he is not a murderer because he only killed ten people whereas Ted Bundy killed 100 and Clifford Olsen murdered children. Hitler did take a lot from Mussolini particularly concerning how to rise to power and create a dictatorship from a weak democratic state. Like Hitler he created armed groups of violent supporters to terrorize opposition groups and create a crisis which would allow him to seize power. Like Hitler he took power through democratic means, certain government powers seeing him as the solution to the problem which he himself had a large part in creating. After becoming Premier he quickly took steps ensure that democratic institutions failed and that he became dictator, killing or jailing opponents, dissolving political parties, putting all media under party control and initiating state propaganda and quickly getting the military, police and courts as well as economic instruments under his control. Italy was turned into a police state complete with a blackshirt militia to supress all dissent. A further similarity with Hitler was the ideal of creating an empire and vastly expanding the Italian state while subjugating or eliminating those people already living there. His bloody exploits in Albania, Libya and Ethiopia were examples before the war of his idea of creating a new Roman Empire and taking over most of the Mediterranean states.

In 1938 Mussolini passed racial laws against Jews partly to win favour with Hitler. He was certainly not forced to do this as he later managed to resist German pressure to join the war until the submission of France convinced him the Germans would win and that he would thus be on the winning side. The Jews subsequently faced a great deal of persecution under Mussolini although while many were sent to prison camps he did initially refuse to send them to the German extermination camps. However, after he lost power and had to be rescued and reinstated by the Germans many Jews were sent to the extermination camps with his aid and the enthusiastic aid of many other Italian fascists (the salute does not represent only Mussolini but the actions of the entire fascist movement). Whether or not Mussolini was a racist in principle or through convenience he certainly caused the deaths of thousands of Jews and other non-Italian. Stalin was not a racist either but this doesn't mean he was a great leader.

In one key respect Mussolini was not like Hitler and more similar to Stalin. Hitler had an ideal and belief however warped and was willing to kill whoever in order to reach this ideal. Mussolini and Stalin were more practical and less ideological, they wanted power and were willing to kill whoever and oppress whatever nation stood in their way. His more practical sense did avoid the mass random and senseless killing that Hitler undertook but still led to mass killings that in no way should be underestimated. Both Hitler and Mussolini were equally willing to kill but Mussolini needed to see a reason or purpose to doing this before carrying it out. Mussolini brought war and death to many countries as well as bringing war, death and shame to his own country in his egotistical quest for power. He may not be a mass murderer quite at the scale of Hitler or Stalin but a mass murderer he is just the same. To put it in perspective while he may be below Hitler and Stalin on the scale of murderous dictators he is well above such present day bad guys like Slobodan Milosovic and Saddam Hussein. He may or may not be in the millions of dead but is certainly into the hundreds of thousands.

As far as the meaning of the salute it doesn't matter what the salute meant 100 years ago, what is important is what it means today. The Swastika was an ancient religious symbol conveying positive ideas such as peace and luck but certainly this is not the meaning it carries today. The Roman salute was indeed always a militaristic and nationalistic greeting even used during the American pledge of allegiance before its use as a fascist symbol. Di Canio is fully aware of the meaning of the fascist salute in contemporary society. Considering he is largely praiseworthy of Mussolini in his book despite a few mild criticisms, I really wonder what he says on the subject in private when he doesn't have to worry about ruining his career through public remarks. In any case, Di Canio and the Lazio ultras as well are a disgrace to soccer with their shameful use of the fascist salute. Italian soccer has had enough problems in the last few years with racist fascist hooligans fans without now have to deal with rascist fascist hooligan players. There are no grounds to exonerate, whitewash or make excuses for either Mussolini or Di Canio.

[Peschfan]

I am not disputing that Mussolini no doubt was a violent dictator, but he was a weak man and many of his policies was just to save his own a.ss when he knew he was going down. But Theinvasionof Ethiopia was another one of his "loook what i can do" tactics and it ended up veing a disaster in the end. The world Shunned him for it. He saw Hitler going in other countries and not everyone else looked the other way. He having the big head he did thought Italy too should regain an empire. My argument is his thinking was more to take Italy back to the "Glory days" of the empire and not so much "ethnic cleansing"

This isnt about whitewashing Mussolini, its about the meaning behind Di Canio's gesture. and possible alternative meanings to it.

Mussolini aside, I just offered possible alternatives to which that salute could have meant in Italy that outsiders might not kno it to be. I find it hard to believe that Di Canio would publically do that (if he is a fascist) infront of the world. that is "political suicide" if you will. Not trying to defend what he did, but trying to offer other explanations, than automaticallly assuming the worst. partly because I like Di Canio and Lazio, but also because he is innocent until proven guilty. He said it was not fascist related, if it was, im sure he would have no problem admitting it, if thats what he believes. But i honestly dont think it is. Am i in denial? maybe a little bit, but until he publically states he meant it to be fascist, I will not cast the first stone.

The biggest shame, is that the great performance for 90 minutes on the pitch is overshadowned by one stupid gesture off the pitch.

[frostman]

Whooaaaaooooo..... Dudes! You guys are gettin like really heavy, mannnnnn.

[beachesl]

[SABuffalo786]

Lovely.

[Cheeta]

Been a Di Canio fan since his Celtic days. Really entertaining fellow to watch but he was always a bit moody and a hot head. Passionate for sure. But talk about emotional mood swings? Oy. (And there have been some doozers who've passed through Parkhead). But I guess that's part of what you get with some "passionate" players.

I'm going to guess he was just hamming it up for the lads in the grandstand after a grand victory. But be that as it may, it realy is poor form.

A little slap on the wrist wouldn't do any harm and it would put Paulo on indefinate parole should something similar occure in the future.

By the way, forgot to tape the match but it just dosen't look like Roma are going anywhere this year.

[marktci]

quote:Originally posted by Peschfan

as he says they are simialr in nationalism but differ on morals. Di Canio is a highly moral and ethical man. He is defiantely old fashioned and does hold mostly right wing views, but he says he doesnt see how he could go against his morals to achieve his goals. a perfect example of this is hen Di Canio did not score on the open net when the keeper was down injured.

I love the irony that a man who once shoved a referee to the ground, one of the biggest hotheads in the game, also has won the "Fair Play" award. The move he made to stop play when the player was injured (catching a cross from which he could just as easily have tried to score) was very sporting. But you'd think that a player's body of work would be considered when deciding on the award.

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by Peschfan

I am not disputing that Mussolini no doubt was a violent dictator, but he was a weak man and many of his policies was just to save his own a.ss when he knew he was going down. But Theinvasionof Ethiopia was another one of his "loook what i can do" tactics and it ended up veing a disaster in the end. The world Shunned him for it. He saw Hitler going in other countries and not everyone else looked the other way. He having the big head he did thought Italy too should regain an empire. My argument is his thinking was more to take Italy back to the "Glory days" of the empire and not so much "ethnic cleansing"

This isnt about whitewashing Mussolini, its about the meaning behind Di Canio's gesture. and possible alternative meanings to it.

Mussolini aside, I just offered possible alternatives to which that salute could have meant in Italy that outsiders might not kno it to be. I find it hard to believe that Di Canio would publically do that (if he is a fascist) infront of the world. that is "political suicide" if you will. Not trying to defend what he did, but trying to offer other explanations, than automaticallly assuming the worst. partly because I like Di Canio and Lazio, but also because he is innocent until proven guilty. He said it was not fascist related, if it was, im sure he would have no problem admitting it, if thats what he believes. But i honestly dont think it is. Am i in denial? maybe a little bit, but until he publically states he meant it to be fascist, I will not cast the first stone.

You are still apologizing for Mussolini and Di Canio. Mussolini was not at all a weak man and if anything his actions influenced Hitler more than the other way around particularly as far as expanding the empire. He already had waged violent campaigns in Corfu, Albania and Libya when Hitler was an unknown, minor politican in Munich. The Ethiopia campaign was a mere continuation of his own policy that greatly influenced Hitler (although I doubt anyone would let Hitler off the hook and say he was only following Mussolini's lead like you are attempting in reverse). Whether or not he was trying to commit ethnic cleansing he was certainly willing to kill whoever necessary to gain power. The glory days of the empire were not so glorious for the people under Roman rule (something the Jews who were expelled from Israel not by the Arabs but the Romans can well attest to) and Mussolini's interests in the Mediterranean were by no means benevolent nor inspired by lofty ideals. Sure at the end he lost his hold on power and had to be bailed out by the Germans at which point like at every other point in his career he was willing to kill whoever and however many necessary to save his own a.ss and promote his own interest.

As far as Di Canio, it must be noted he is a former Lazio hooligan himself. The large Lazio hooligan groups are not rebellious guys who give the salute because it is tabu like the 70's punks but are active supporters of the neo-fascist movement. There are large posters of Mussolini in the clubhouses of several ultra groups and many of the hooligans are also members of fascist parties. This relationship between fascist parties and Lazio hooligans has been well established for many years. While Di Canio may have given the salute in the heat of the moment without thinking, a person of non-fascist tendencies does not give this salute in the heat of the moment. Would you give this salute in the heat of the moment after an emotional win? Why has no other Lazio player ever given the salute in front of the hooligans? He is fully aware of its meaning and the fact that it was in the heat of the moment probably means that he is showing his true colours more than in his book where he obviously has to worry about negative, career damaging public reaction. People just don't give fascist salutes on a whim.

quote:The biggest shame, is that the great performance for 90 minutes on the pitch is overshadowned by one stupid gesture off the pitch.

This is far from the biggest shame. The biggest shame is an athlete of very poor moral and ethical standing is skilled enough to be a top soccer player and give a salute honouring a movement that killed millions throughout the world of various ethnic background including his own.

[Former Champ]

I honestly think that events like this should not be given so much attention.

Does anyone remember the Anson Carter incident in Russia recently. I think Carter showed terrific class in his reaction (or lack of it) and the incident was largely forgotten and the racists unvalidated.

It was an antagonistical gesture by mr asshead. **** him "Who cares?" (as said Mr Carter).

[youllneverwalkalone]

quote:Originally posted by Current Champ

I honestly think that events like this should not be given so much attention.

Does anyone remember the Anson Carter incident in Russia recently. I think Carter showed terrific class in his reaction (or lack of it) and the incident was largely forgotten and the racists unvalidated.

It was an antagonistical gesture by mr asshead. **** him "Who cares?" (as said Mr Carter).

Current Champ, you have literally stolen the ideal example right out of my head. You ****ing fascist!

The quote I heard from Carter was something to the effect of "Hey, what do I care? I live in LA. These banana throwing mother****ers have to live HERE."

(Secretly we all know the Russians are behind this. Communist ****s.)

My 2 cents: I'll the take battery throwing fascists any day if it can help me sit through the Serie A without falling asleep. The unspoken hidden Mussolini/Hitler conspiracy was to create the two most boring leagues in the world.

I'm not really an historian, hooligan expert, or contemporary philosopher. However, I really do feel we are faced with a new paradigm. I firmly believe that the kids of today don't buy this 'Paulie's so shameful, fascism must be met with the sternest of finger waving, it's so disgusting to my Voyageur, hippie, pot-smoking sensibilities.'

As I believe CC said, the melodramatic indignation seems to legitimize the tough guy image Pablo is trying to convey to his supporters.

[JayWay]

Well said, Grizzly!

The manner in which some people are prepared to brush aside the lives lost and the atrocities commited under that gesture in the face of an endearing footballer is just pathetic.

If Lazio fans are angered by the way this has overshadowed their team's performance and are looking for a source to vent (a dead silly sentiment), perhaps they should turn to their hero DiCannio, who despite being knowledgable enough on the ins and outs of Mussolini and his role in World War 2 to publish his opinions on it, still doesn't have the sense to realize the connotations and disrespect that the salute brings.

[Grizzly]

The Carter example is a pretty poor analogy. First he did not react with class but insulted the Russian people in turn just as he was insulted. Maybe many people would also react in a similar fashion to Carter when insulted but don't claim he turned the other cheek and was classy. If he had just called the perpetrators ignorant assholes that would have been o.k. What he said was they are ignorant assholes who have to live in a crappy country where everyone lives in poverty while I live in riches in LA. Thus, he insulted all Russians and the vast majority of spectators at the game who didn't throw bananas on the ice and showed himself to be pretty ignorant and bigoted as well. What does some NHL millionaire know about Russian life when he comes to the country on an organized tour for about three days. Again maybe the reaction was understandable given what happened but don't tell me it was classy or moral high ground. Nor is the country he is currently living in a particular shining example for race relations.

Second there is a huge difference between making a racial slur and making a salute of an organization responsible for the deaths of millions. Making an ignorant racist comment does not necessarily mean that this person supports the killing of people of this race. Neither are admirable but it is a huge difference in degree.

Third there is a difference between an offensive gesture made by fans or hooligans and that made by players themselves. There are racists in all countries and some are going to attend sporting matches. Certain clubs could do more to remove these fans from their matches but it is impossible to eliminate racist fans entirely. Players, however, are paid to represent their clubs and league with honour and also as public figures are role models for many young sports fans. They are supposed to have a higher level of behaviour than say a fan who has drunk beer the whole day before the match. The fascist salute given recently by Real Madrid fans was disgusting and deserved to be condemned just as the regular fascist salutes given by Lazio fans should be more vigorously condemned than they have been in the past. However, can you imagine the reaction if it had been the Real Madrid players giving the salute and not the fans.

[Massive Attack]

I am a Lazio fan and I think that DiCanio is an idiot for what he did. But if you think his mentality is any different from the neo-cons in our own country you're living in a dreamworld.

[amacpher]

quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack

I am a Lazio fan and I think that DiCanio is an idiot for what he did. But if you think his mentality is any different from the neo-cons in our own country you're living in a dreamworld.

Difficult to say if the mentality is much different but having this mentality and carrying-out this mentality with actions are two entirely different things. Until you have hundreds (thousands?) of fans at an NHL game behaving like fans in Lazio, Madrid, etc., there's no comparison even.